康奈尔大学诉讼案引发的舆论风暴与安大略省法规回顾
9月21日，《康奈尔每日太阳报》（The Cornell Daily Sun）的学生记者发表了一篇社论，引发了一场舆论风暴。该社论点名了七名男子，指控他们两年前在一所兄弟会房屋内涉嫌下药并轮奸一名女性。这篇报道迅速传播，七个人的名字随处可见，很快社交媒体用户也开始试图揭露提起诉讼的女性身份——她在诉讼中仅被称为简·多伊（Jane Doe）。据她的律师称，她面临死亡威胁、人肉搜索（doxing）以及家中被蓄意谎报险情（swatting）的事件。现在，一名法官裁定，出于隐私和安全考虑，她可以在诉讼中使用化名。但社交媒体上的一些人认为这不公平。他们说被她指控的男子自己也面临风险，因为他们的名字也已经被公之于众了。
那么，谁有权隐去姓名，原因又是什么？我们将探讨性侵案件中匿名权的伦理问题。
当然，该案件发生在康奈尔大学校园内，但它在世界各地引发了关于校园安全的讨论，包括在安大略省。那么，这里处理校园性侵的流程是什么？首先，我们来深入探讨该省的相关政策与立法，以及它们在多大程度上为幸存者发挥了作用或未能发挥作用。我是杰扬·杰加纳森（Jeyan Jeganathan），这里是《The Rundown》。
距离该省通过针对高校校园性暴力的立法已经过去了十年。那么，它涵盖了什么内容？它对校园安全产生了影响吗？如果一名学生确实站出来提出指控，他们究竟可以对所在学校抱有怎样的期待？
查琳·森（Charlene Senn）、法拉·汗（Farrah Khan），非常高兴两位能来到《The Rundown》参与这场非常重要的对话。
查琳，我先从你开始。距离《第132号法案》（Bill 132）即《性暴力与性骚扰行动计划》通过已经十年了。作为性暴力领域的顶尖研究者，这项立法对高等教育机构产生了怎样的影响？
英文原文
>> On September 21st, student journalists at the Cornell Daily Sun published an editorial that sparked a firestorm. It named seven men accused in a civil lawsuit of allegedly drugging and gang raping a woman at a fraternity house two years earlier. The story spread quickly. The seven names were everywhere, and soon social media users were also trying to uncover the identity of the woman who brought the lawsuit, known only as Jane Doe. According to her lawyer, she's faced death threats, doxing attempts and a swatting incident at her home. And now a judge has ruled she can use a pseudonym in her suit because of privacy and safety issues. But some people on social media think that's unfair. They say the men she's accused are facing risks themselves because their names are out there, too. So who gets to go unnamed and why? We look at the ethics of anonymity in sexual assault cases. Now, of course, that case took place on Cornell University campus, but it sparked discussions about campus safety all over the world, including here in Ontario. So what's the process here for dealing with sexual assault on campus? Up first, we dig into the policies and legislation in this province and how they're working and not working for survivors. I'm Jeyan Jeganathan, and this is The Rundown. It's been ten years since the province passed legislation addressing sexual violence on college and university campuses. So what does it cover? And has it had an impact on campus safety? And if a student does come forward with an allegation, what can they actually expect from their school? Charlene Senn, Farrah Khan, great to have you both on The Rundown for this very important conversation. Charlene, I'm going to start with you. It's been ten years since Bill 132 Sexual Violence and Harassment Action Plan was passed. As a leading researcher on sexual violence, what impact has the legislation had on post-secondary institutions?我认为它产生了重要的影响，但近年来这种影响变得更加有限。我认为它最初是建立在已经奠定的基础之上的。你知道，莱克海德大学（Lakehead University）在2014年制定了一项非常出色的独立性暴力政策，也是安大略省首创；多伦多也曾就性暴力政策和最佳实践发布过一份讨论文件。因此，政府出台这项法案，确实像是在推动所有大学制定政策，并开展更多工作以求做得更好。所以我觉得那非常重要。
而且它当时附带了一些资金。这真的很重要，因为在我看来，一项没有资金支持的法案是毫无价值的。因此，它确实推动了各所大学。他们制定了性暴力政策，这意味着他们将校园里的人召集起来，切实讨论这一问题，并弄清楚他们将做些什么——不仅是在应对方面（尽管那是极为重要的一部分），而且还在预防方面进行了尝试，尽管这部分稍微更有限一些。
但当下届政府上台时，即便是那些少量的资金也被削减或重新分配，情况不再如前了。因此，该法案的势头无法延续，势头无法继续建立。事实上，很多东西都丧失了。随着冻结、学费冻结、资金冻结等等，大学的预算被削减。基本上，随着生活成本的上涨，许多这类努力都停滞不前，或者说它们所能取得的成果受到了极大限制。
英文原文
>> I think it's had an important impact, but that has been more limited in recent years. So I think initially it built on a foundation that had been happening already. You know, Lakehead University in 2014 had created a really excellent sexual violence policy that was a standalone and was one it was the first in Ontario in Toronto had done a discussion paper on sexual violence policies and what would be best practices. And so the government this bill really seemed to be it was pushing all universities to create policies and to do many other things to do better. And so I think that was very important. And it had some money attached. And that is really important because a bill without money attached is worthless, in my view. And so, you know, it really pushed universities. They got sexual violence policies together, which meant they brought people together on campuses to really talk about the issue and to figure out what they would do, not only in terms of response, although that was a very important piece, but also attempts at prevention, although that was a little bit more limited. But when the next government came in, even the small amounts of of funding were cut or reallocated, things were no longer the case. And so the bill could no longer have continued. The momentum could not be built. And in fact, much was lost. And with freezes and fund intuition, funding and so on, universities were cut. Basically, as the cost of living increased. And so many of those efforts were stalled or were really limited in what they could accomplish.法拉，在你倡导性别正义和政策的众多荣誉中，从2015年开始，你共同主持了安大略省首届反妇女暴力圆桌会议。为什么安大略省在那段时间会经历一场反思？查琳，我刚才列举了校园里发生的几起引人注目的案例。但在当时具体发生了什么？当我们放眼2026年时，它又改变了多少？
英文原文
>> Farrah, amongst your many accolades in gender justice advocacy and policy, starting in 2015, you co-chaired Ontario's first provincial Roundtable on Violence Against Women. Why was the province experiencing a reckoning during this time? Charlene, I laid out a few sort of notable cases that were happening in campus in the work there. But what was what was happening there and how much has it changed? When we look at 2026?嗯，那是我们第一次看到性暴力真正成为公众讨论的一部分，亲密伴侣暴力也是如此。因此，省圆桌会议审视了所有这些方面。那真的很重要。当新上台的政府解散了该圆桌会议时，令人非常失望，因为我们需要一群最杰出的思想家——或者说不是最杰出的思想家，那是个荒谬的说法——我们需要一群在一线实地开展工作的人。也就是反对针对妇女暴力的庇护所、性侵危机中心以及工会。我们当时让工会也参与进来了。
因此我们都在讨论这个问题。真正推动这一议程的一个重大事件是吉安·戈梅希（Jian Ghomeshi）案。加拿大在2015年那一刻，就性侵和基于性别的暴力迎来了我们自己的反思。而且，你知道，我当时说这几乎就是那一时期的周年纪念。因此，它确实推动了人们展开这场对话，不仅是在这里，而是在全国范围内。
英文原文
>> Well, it was the first time that we saw sexual violence really be a part of the conversation, as well as intimate partner violence. So the provincial roundtable looked at all all those pieces. And that's really important. It was very disappointing when the roundtable was disbanded by the new government that came in, because we need a group of the greatest thinkers or not the greatest thinkers. That's a ridiculous thing, but we need a group of the people that are doing the work on the ground. So violence against women shelters, sexual assault centres and also unions. We had unions at the table. And so we were all talking about this, a big thing that really brought that forward was the Jian Ghomeshi case. Canada had our own reckoning around sexual assault and gender based violence. At that moment in 2015. And, you know, I was saying this is almost the anniversary of that time. And so it really pushed people to have the conversation, not just here, but across the country.高校数据缺失与受害者指责困境
当然，我们进行这场对话是因为边境以南正在发生的康奈尔大学七人案，以及它引发的广泛媒体关注。你能给我们做一个脉搏监测吗？比如，你目前在与学生就这个案件进行怎样的对话？
英文原文
>> We're having this conversation, of course, because of the Cornell seven case that is happening south of the border here, with the widespread media attention. Can you give us a sort of a pulse check? Like what types of conversations are you having with students about this case?好的。在“可能性种子”（Possibility Seeds），我们主导了大学与学院基于性别暴力的国家框架项目。因此我们会与学生会、负责运营性侵危机中心的人员以及幸存者进行交流。我们现在听到的声音是，有人说：“在我报案时，我的学校对待我很好吗？”同时也有幸存者表示他们感受到了受害者指责（victim blaming）。
我们看到加拿大统计局（StatsCan）刚发布的报告显示，遭遇过性侵的幸存者中有三分之一表示他们曾受到指责，尤其是来自家人和朋友的指责。因此，从社区组织到资金支持，再到校园里发生的事情，我们还有很多工作要做。而且这绝不能仅仅始于大学和学院。
英文原文
>> Yeah. So a Possibility Seeds. We led the National framework on gender based violence at universities and colleges. And so we speak to student unions, to people that run the sexual assault centres, to survivors. And what we're hearing now is people saying, well, my university treat me well when I report. And also survivors saying that they feel the victim blaming. And we see that in the stats can just report that just came out that 1 in 3 survivors who have been sexually assaulted say that they were victim blamed, especially from family and friends. So we have a lot of work to do from community organizations to funding to what's happening on campus. And it cannot just be starting at universities and colleges.查琳，关于眼下正在发生的这起案件，你从学生那里听到的一些讨论是什么？
英文原文
>> Charlene, what are some of those conversations that you're hearing from students, particularly with this, this case that's happening right now?是的，我认为与法拉所说的非常相似。我认为对我而言最引人深思的是，对一些学生来说，这似乎几乎是他们第一次真正去思考这个问题。对一部分人而言是这样；而对于其他一直在从事这项工作的人，以及对于我们这些长期从事这项工作的人来说，这当然不是什么新鲜事。
然而，我认为这件事情在媒体和社交媒体上引发轰动的方式，对一些年轻人来说，算得上是他们的一次反思。这促使他们切实去思考这件事，思考他们所在的机构，并去设想如果自己站出来，大学是否会妥善处理。当然，在所有环境下，正义都极难寻求，不仅仅是在大学里。我不认为我们能说我们已经拥有了正义。
英文原文
>> Yeah, I think very similar to what Farrah is saying, that it is what is, I think most interesting to me is that for some students, this seems to be almost the first time that they are really thinking about this. For some and for others who have been doing this work, and for those of us who've been doing this work for a long time, of course, this is nothing new. And yet I think the way that this hit the media and social media, that for some young people, this is sort of their reckoning. This is them pushing them to really think about this and think about their institutions and to wonder about whether the university will handle things well if they were to come forward. And of course, justice is very hard to find in all contexts, not just universities. I don't think we can say that we have that.我应该提一下，我们确实联系了学院和大学、研究卓越与安全部（Ministry of Colleges and Universities, Research Excellence and Security），邀请他们参加节目，或者向我们提供一份声明，但他们未能在播出前及时向我们提供声明。
但是，法拉，根据《第132号法案》，学院和大学需要做几件事，其中之一就是提交校园性暴力的年度数据。如果机构不报告这些数字，会有任何后果或惩罚吗？
英文原文
>> I should mention that we did reach out to the Ministry of Colleges and Universities, Research Excellence and Security to come on the program, and if not to provide us a statement, they did not provide us a statement in time for broadcast. But, Farrah, I want to, under Bill 132, colleges and universities need to do a few things, and one of them is to submit an annual data on sexual violence on campus. Are there any repercussions or penalties if institutions don't report those numbers?据我所知并没有。各机构每年——学院和大学——都会根据学生人数获得女性安全拨款资金。但这些资金是用于帮助他们开展关于性暴力和基于性别暴力的项目、研究及预防工作。但我们并没有真正看到围绕数据本身有什么推进。这令人失望，因为数据让我们能够了解趋势以及我们该如何提供支持。
我们原本可以每年让省政府表明：“好的，这是我们在各机构看到的整体情况。我们看到跟踪骚扰行为有所上升。”我们在2018年出炉的校园性暴力风气调查中看到了这一点。但自那以后，我们再也没有开展过风气调查。而当我们缺乏数据时，我们便无法了解该如何触达学生。这确实是个大问题。
英文原文
>> Not that I'm aware of. Institutions every year, colleges and universities get a women's safety grant funding based on the population. But it's it's funding that can help them do projects and research and prevention on sexual and gender based violence. But we don't see really a movement around the data. And it's disappointing because data allows us to understand trends and how we can do the support. And we could have had every year the province say, okay, this is what we're seeing across the board. We're seeing a rise in stalking. And we saw that with the campus Sexual Violence Climate Survey that came out in 2018. But we haven't had a climate survey since. And when we don't have the data, we're not able to know how to reach students. And that is a real problem.嗯，我们在录制前刚聊过这个。你知道，其中一些数据有助于让人们感到放心从而站出来。
英文原文
>> Well, we talked about this just before recording. You know, some of that data helps people feel comfortable to come out.是的。
英文原文
>> And yes.这存在少报现象。
英文原文
>> This is underreported.是的。我认为尤其是年轻男性——我知道这听起来可能显得我对这个问题很钻研——当看到统计数据表明这种情况发生在所有性别身上、年轻男性也会遭受伤害并且他们也可以站出来时，我是感到十分振奋的。还有年轻女性，我认为在康奈尔大学的案件中，令人心碎的是，许多年轻女性在那篇报道中看到了自己，她们感同身受地理解受害者因为知道自己会被指责而害怕站出来的心情。
英文原文
>> Yes. And I think especially young men, I think about the fact that I'm really I know it sounds I'm a nerd about this issue. So I'm so excited when I see stats that talk about the fact that it happens to all genders and that young men also experience harm, and they too can come forward. And also young women, I think with Cornell, what was heartbreaking about Cornell is that so many young women saw themselves in that story, saw themselves in in understanding that they were scared to come forward because they knew that they would be blamed.防范干预与早期教育实践
查琳，我想看一些这里的数据。根据加拿大统计局的数据，在2025年，女性比男性更有可能成为亲密伴侣暴力（IPV）的受害者、遭受性侵犯，以及在公共场所遭遇不受欢迎的行为——比如跟踪、当街挑逗等所有这些事情，而且这些数字在15至24岁的青年群体中始终更高。
我们能做些什么来保护年轻女性和女孩？我认为对于很多观众和听众来说，他们看到15岁这个年龄可能会觉得，这还是高中阶段，这甚至在我们进入大学校园之前。人们就已经有了其中的一些经历。但我们究竟能做些什么来保护年轻女性、女孩，以及年轻男性和男孩？
英文原文
>> Charlene, I want to look at some some numbers here. According to StatsCan, in 2025, women were more likely than men to have been victims of intimate partner violence. IPV to have been sexually assaulted and to have experienced unwanted behaviours in public place. So stalking, catcalling, all of those things and these numbers were consistently higher amongst youth aged 15 to 24. What can we do to protect young women and girls? I think for a lot of viewers and listeners, they might look at 15 and be like, this is high school. This is before we even get to campus. People are having some of these experiences. But what what can we do to protect young women and girls and young men and boys?是的。这并没有灵丹妙药。这是实情。我的意思是，其中的一个环节在于，我们切实需要制止性暴力以及所有那些前兆，比如负面态度、对强奸迷思（rape myths）的相信、对女性的指责和对受害者的指责等等。
旁观者——真正高质量的旁观者教育可以通过让社区切实接受这些观念来改变它；并让年轻人知道他们实际上可以产生影响。我们知道，例如年轻男性介入制止其他年轻男性，而这恰恰是康奈尔案中没有发生的事情。在那个群组动态里的所有那些男性，没有一个人采取任何行动去制止这件事。对吧。没有一个人说任何话。没有人叫人来，一个人都没有。对吧。所有这些情况。
所以我们可以从很小的时候就开展这项工作。我们可以开展非常好的旁观者教育。我们还可以——这里有一些项目，性侵抵御教育项目，我自己的项目，路易丝·布莱斯（Louise Blais）是拥有最多实证支持的项目。我们知道这种项目把100%的责任归咎于施暴者，但它赋能女孩和年轻女性，赋予她们信任自己的知识和技能，并用我们已知的最佳策略武装她们，以便在面对具有强迫行为的人时能够保护自身安全，并切实让她们明白，无论发生什么、无论你做出什么选择，你都不应该受到指责。这类项目——比如结合“3A”机制的“翻转剧本”（Flip the Script）项目——就是其中之一。它使之后的未遂和既遂性侵发生率降低了50%，并且这种效果至少持续两年。
英文原文
>> Yeah. And there are no quick fixes. This is right. The thing I mean, one of the pieces is we really need to make stopping sexual violence and all of those precursors, like the negative attitudes, the belief in rape myths and, and women blaming and victim blaming and so on. We bystander, really high quality bystander kinds of education can alter a community by really making this taken on board. And for young people to know that they can actually have an influence. We know that, for example, young men intervening with other young men, which is exactly what didn't happen in the Cornell case, right. With all of those men on that feed, and not a single man doing anything to stop this. Right. No one said anything. Nobody sent someone, no one. Right. All of those things. So we can do that from very young. We can do really good bystander education. We can also, there are programs, sexual assault resistance, education programs, my my own Louise Blais is the one that has the most evidence. We know that this kind of program that puts 100% of the blame on a on perpetrators, but empowers girls and young women to. With knowledge and skills to trust themselves and prepares them with what we know are the best sort of strategies. When faced with someone who is coercive. To get yourself safe and really, and also to know that you are not to blame no matter what happens and no matter what you chose, those kind of programs and flip the script with the triple A is is one. It reduces the rate of attempted and completed sexual assaults afterwards by 50%, and that effect lasts for at least two years.法拉。显然，教育是这里的关键环节。我们谈论的是15、16岁。我们谈论的是高中阶段。
英文原文
>> Farrah. Clearly, education is is the big thing here. And we're talking about 15, 16 years. We're talking high school.我们谈论的是年轻女孩。
英文原文
>> We're talking about girls.这种对话是否需要更早开始？在那个阶段它是否有在进行？
英文原文
>> Does this conversation need to start much earlier? Is it happening at that point?没有，并没有以我们需要的方式在进行。而且它进行得并不连贯、并不持续。我认为查琳提到的重点，也是我一直在深思的，就是我们需要无障碍获取的机制，我们需要连贯性与透明度。而我们在学校里没有看到这些。我们在高中里没有看到这些。我们在政府层面也没有看到这些。
目前在安大略省有一项关于人口贩运的法规（PPM）。因此学校必须开展这方面的教学，但他们并没有被强制要求开展关于性侵和性暴力的教学，而后者其实更为普遍。而且资金也没有到位。
因此，这个过去的夏天我们实际上正与高中生合作开展一项研究公共政策的“知情同意研究员计划”（consent fellowship）。他们将于11月16日在立法机构与金·斯坦顿博士（Doctor Kim Stanton）共同提交一份报告，要求修改《教育法》（Education Act），将基于性和性别的暴力明确纳入教学内容中。当年轻男性在学校遭遇性骚扰时，他们被告知最多的一句话是：“讲了带性意味的笑话之后，你就表现得不像个男人了”，而年轻男性被告知的行为守则之一就是要表现得像个男人。这是为了贬低女性。因此如果我们不开展这些对话教学，我们将会面临严重的后果。而我们现在正面临着这一局面。
英文原文
>> No, not in the way that we need it to. And it's not happening consistently, consistently. And I think the big piece that Charlene is talking about, and I really think about too, is that we need accessible, we need to have also consistent and transparency. And we're not seeing that in the schools. We're not seeing that in high schools. We're not seeing that by government. So right now, in Ontario, there is a PM. So legislation around human trafficking. So schools have to teach about that, but they're not compelled to teach about sexual assault and sexual sexual violence, which is more common. And the funding is not there. So we actually are working with high school students this past summer on a consent fellowship that looked at public policy, and they're going to be presenting a report with Doctor Kim Stanton on November 16th at the legislature to ask for a change of the Education Act to include sexual and gender based violence as explicitly something that education will have when young men are sexually harassed in school. The biggest thing that they're told is, you know, after sexual jokes, you don't act like a man and a part of the code of conduct that young men are told is that they have to act like a man. It's to degradate women. And so if we're not teaching those conversations, we are going to have a major problem. And we are facing that right now.正如我所说，我们确实联系了教育部探讨他们正在采取的举措，但他们同样未能在播出前及时回复我们。
查琳，你主导了两个成功的项目：温莎大学旁观者倡议（University of Windsor Bystander Initiative）和“翻转剧本”项目。为什么这些项目如此有效？
英文原文
>> As I say, we did reach out to the Ministry of Education to talk about sort of what they're doing, but they did not get back to us in time for broadcast as well. Charlene, you headed two successful programs, the University of Windsor Bystander Initiative and the Flip the Script program. Why have these programs been so effective?好的。首先，我们的旁观者倡议采用了一项循证项目，该项目具有明确的成果，表明它确实能够改善态度和旁观者行为。因此我们采用了“引入旁观者”（Bringing in the Bystander）项目。随后，我和我的同事福雷斯特（Forrest）萌生了一个想法：为了确保它能够获得资金且资金不被削减，我们将其制度化地植入到大学内部。
因此我们在学术课程中培训引导员，让他们学会如何操作。然后学生们跨学院选修它——工程学院、理学院、法学院、文学院、人文与社会科学学院。在他们的课程体系内，他们选修这个工作坊可以获得额外的课程学分。因此，我认为这向学生表明，大学认为这是一件严肃的事情，它与你的其他学业工作一样严肃。
我认为正是由于这个原因，它非常有效，并且因为它是基础预算资金（base funding），所以无法被削减，而基础资金本身通常风险很高。这是一方面。
然后我认为“翻转剧本”这个项目，我的意思是，它非常有效。而且它确实……你知道，有时大家会觉得性侵是不可避免的，因为发生率没有改变。这是不对的。我们都可以共同致力于预防，我们可以干预他人，我们也可以保护自己，把所有这些事情整合在一起。
英文原文
>> Yeah. Well, the first thing our bystander initiative used an evidence based program that had that had that those outcomes showing that it really made a difference in attitudes and bystander behaviour. So we used the bringing in the bystander program, and then we, my colleague and Forrest had this idea that to make sure it could be funded and the funding would not be cut, we institutionalized it within the university. So we teach facilitators in academic courses, so they learn how to do it. And then the students are taking it across faculties engineering, science, law, Faculty of Arts, Humanities and Social Sciences. In their classes. They are taking this workshop for extra credit in their courses. And so because of that, it shows, I think, students, that the university thinks this is serious and it's as serious as all of your other work. So I think it's been very effective for that reason and has not been able to be cut because it's base funding, which is very risky. So that's something. And then I think the flip the script with the program is, is I mean, it's, it's effective. And it really, you know, there can be that. So those moments where it feels like sexual assault is inevitable because the rates have changed. And it is not right. We can all work to to towards prevention and we can intervene with others and we can help ourselves both all of those things together.法拉，你想接着谈谈这点吗？
英文原文
>> Farrah, you want to pick up on that?是的。你知道，我很喜欢查琳的项目。我认为它非常重要，但有时从这些讨论中缺失的一环是：在性暴力发生时我们该如何应对。
因此，作为对该项目的补充，我们与学生合作开展了这个“勇敢项目”（BRAVE program）。我们发现学生最害怕的第一件事就是向别人倾诉。因此我们为家长、教师、教育工作者和学生创建了倾诉应对模型与培训。因为学生倾诉的首要对象是他们的朋友。在康奈尔大学的案件中，她就告诉了她的朋友。
因此“勇敢模型”（BRAVE model）一直在发挥作用。它其实就只有五个步骤： 倾听开始（Begin by listening）； 尊重与保密（Respect, confidentiality）； 询问需要怎样的支持（Ask what support looks like）； 确认感受并共情（Validate and empathize）。
我们在研究中发现，86%的学生在朋友倾诉时感到更有能力去应对，而这也是我们希望看到的，因为仅仅做预防是不够的。这还关乎当人们面对倾诉时我们如何提供支持。这就是为什么看到这些项目相互映照、协同运作是一件非常好的事，因为我们还必须确保站出来的学生能够被倾听、被相信。
英文原文
>> Yeah. You know, I love Charlene's program. I think it's so important a piece that I think that's missing sometimes from these conversations too, is adding on how we respond when sexual violence happens. And so a complement to that program is that what we've done is worked on this brave program with students. And what we found is that students, the number one thing is they're scared about disclosing to someone. So we created disclosure models and trainings for parents, for teachers, for educators, and for students. Because the number one person that a student discloses to is their friend. So in the Cornell case, she told her friend. And so the brave model has been working. And what it is is just five steps. Begin by listening. Respect, confidentiality. Ask what support looks like. Validate and empathize. And what we found in our research is that 86% of students feel more equipped to respond to a friend when they disclose, and that's what we want to see too, because it's not enough to do prevention. It's also about how we support people when they respond. And that's why it's really great to see these programs kind of mirror each other and work together, because we have to also make sure that students who come forward are heard and believed.法拉、查琳，我非常感谢你们二位实质上将生命奉献给这项工作。非常感谢你们抽出时间分享思考与真知灼见。谢谢你们。
英文原文
>> Farrah, Charlene, I want to thank you so much for the work that you've been essentially dedicating your lives to. Really want to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and insights. Thank you.谢谢你。
英文原文
>> Thank you.非常感谢。
英文原文
>> Thank you very much.网络舆论与匿名权的伦理与法律边界
当出现性侵指控时，报道它们的不仅是新闻媒体。网上的评论员也在进行辩论。而且在当下的环境下，情况可能很快变得非常丑陋。公众有权知道什么？谁又有权保持匿名？
吉莉安·桑德兰（Jillian Sunderland）、德里尼·吉尔（Dreeni Geer），很高兴两位来到《The Rundown》。你们近来如何？
英文原文
>> When sexual assault allegations are made, it's not just the news that covers them. They're also debated by commenters online. And it can turn very ugly, very fast in this environment. What does the public have the right to know? And who should have the right to remain anonymous? Jillian Sunderland, Dreeni Geer. Great to have you both on the rundown. How are you doing?很好。谢谢你。
英文原文
>> Great. Thank you.非常好，谢谢。
英文原文
>> Really well thank you.吉莉安，我想先和你谈谈。从社会学角度来看，为什么我们会看到如此喧嚣的社交媒体狂热，试图揭露简·多伊的身份？
英文原文
>> I want to talk to you, Jillian, first, from a sociological perspective, why are we seeing such a loud social media frenzy to unveil Jane Doe's identity?嗯，很大程度上这与厌女情绪的抬头密切相关。许多男性以及一些年轻女性看到这个案件，认为这是一个匿名的受害者在毁掉这些年轻男性的生活。社交媒体上存在一种想要惩罚这名年轻女性或将其杀一儆百的冲动。不幸的是，这就是我们在社交媒体上所看到的。
英文原文
>> Well, a lot of it is tied to kind of this surge of misogyny. So a lot of men and some young women are encountering this case and seeing it as an anonymous victim, kind of ruining the lives of these young men. And there's a drive to kind of punish or kind of make an example of this young woman. Unfortunately, we're seeing on social media.你能帮我们理解一下，从实际的帖子来看，我们具体看到了什么？当我们审视这些讨论时，男女之间的对话是否存在二元差异？
英文原文
>> Can you help us understand, like, what are we seeing in terms of actual posts? What are those conversations when we look at it, perhaps from a binary of those conversations different between men versus women?嗯，我们看到人们在试图揭开她的身份，他们在内心里寻求某种正义，因为他们觉得：“哦，这些年轻人的生活被毁了，而我们却不知道受害者的身份。”很多时候在性侵案件中，我们看到受害者和被告的角色发生了颠倒，受害者反而像是受到了审判：“她的表现如何？她昨晚喝了什么？她吸毒了吗？”因此存在这种揭开她身份的冲动。
而在社交媒体上，我们看到很多年轻女性打出“我就是简·多伊”（#IAmJaneDoe）的话题标签，试图保护受害者，并分享她们自己的性侵经历。所以我们看到存在一些混杂的声音，但总体上呈现出截然不同的反应。
英文原文
>> Well, we're seeing kind of this thing to unveil the identity people are seeking in their mind justice because they feel, oh, these young men, they have their lives destroyed. And we don't know the victim's identity. A lot of times in sexual assault cases, we see this inversion of kind of victim and accused where the victim kind of is put on trial and what's her behaviour? What was was she drinking last night? Was she taking drugs? So there is this kind of drive to unveil her. And young women were seeing a lot of them on social media with the I am Jane Doe hashtag, trying to protect the victim and saying sharing their stories of sexual assault. So we are seeing there is some mix, but we are seeing kind of fairly dissimilar reactions.吉莉安，我想接着你刚才谈到的这一点继续问。当你提到使用那个标签时，是为了淹没那些言论，并以此引起人们对受害者遭遇的关注吗？
英文原文
>> Jillian. I do want to pick up on that note that you made. When you talk about using that hashtag, it's about drowning out sort of those, those conversations and sort of bringing attention to stories of victims.是的，女性通过分享自己的故事试图保护身为受害者的简·多伊，并在某种程度上表达：“我也可能是她，这可能发生在我身上，这可能是你身边的某个人。”以此来压制针对她个人身份的搜索。
英文原文
>> Yes, women are trying to protect the Jane Doe victim by sharing their own stories and kind of saying, I could be her, this could be me, this could be, you know, someone from your community. So try to drown out those searches for her.德里尼，我们来谈谈法律层面。《加拿大刑法典》（Canadian Criminal Code）在特定情况下强制执行出版禁令，例如保护性侵控告人的身份。我们与美国有何不同？
英文原文
>> Dreeni. Let's talk legal. The Canadian Criminal Code mandates, publication bans in specific contexts, such as protecting the identity of sexual assault complainants. How do we differ from the United States?嗯，我不是美国法律方面的专家。我确实快速浏览了一下他们在适用这项出版禁令时所依据的纽约州法律，在民事层面上处理性暴力的方式上，我确实看到了一些相似之处，那就是在开庭审理的理念——即公开审判的权利、正义不仅要实现而且要以看得见的方式实现——与控告人或幸存者一旦被公开姓名可能遭受的潜在伤害之间进行权衡。因此这是一种权衡过程，在纽约州和加拿大都是如此。
你提到了民事与刑事之间的区别。在刑事领域，刚刚通过的新立法非常明确地规定了何时必须颁布出版禁令，这意味着如果幸存者提出申请，法院就应当下令颁布。因此，当涉及性暴力、涉及18岁以下的性暴力证人，以及涉及18岁以下的任何犯罪受害者时，出版禁令都是强制性的。
英文原文
>> Well, I'm not an expert on the American side of the House. I did take a quick look at the New York laws that they're using for this publication ban, and I do see some similarities in terms of the way we deal with sexual violence in a civil level, which is really balancing that notion of the open court, the right to an open court justice needs to be seen to be done, not only done versus potential harm done by complainants or survivors when they are named. And so it's a weighing of those things which happens both in the New York context as well as the Canadian context. So you mentioned the difference between civil and criminal. So in criminal, the new legislation has just passed, really making it clear when publication bans need to be mandatory, which means that if a survivor asks for it, they should be ordered. And so it's mandatory when it's sexual violence, when it's witnesses of sexual violence under the age of 18, and whether it's any victim of any offence under 18, it's a mandatory publication ban.德里尼，我们来聊聊，幸存者为什么可能会希望解除出版禁令？
英文原文
>> Dreeni. Let's let's talk. Why might a survivor want a publication to be lifted?很多时候是因为……如果他们能陈述充分的理由。如果已经颁布了出版禁令，幸存者有权申请将其撤销。同样，这也是一个权衡的过程。如果该命令中指定的其他任何人不会因此受到伤害，那么该禁令肯定会被撤销。他们可能决定撤销它，是因为他们或许想非常明确地公开自己经历了什么。而当他们真正站出来讲出完整的故事时，可能会提及该命令所保护的其他人。因此，他们必须申请解除该出版禁令。
英文原文
>> So because many times two, that when. If they can make a case. So if a publication ban has been issued, then yes, survivors have the right to ask for it to be revoked. And then again, it's a bit of a weighing activity as well, and it gets revoked definitely, when there's going to be no harm to anybody else named on that order, and they might decide to have it revoked, because maybe they want to be really explicit about what happened to them. And when they really come forward with with their full story, it might name other people that the order is protecting. So then they have to have that publication ban lifted.需要明确一点，在性侵案件中，这些禁令有时间限制吗？这是终身禁令还是有期限的？
英文原文
>> Point of clarity with sexual assault cases, is there a timeline on these bans? Is this a lifetime ban or does this have a limit?我的意思是，通常情况下，出版禁令会一直有效，直到被撤销为止。
英文原文
>> I mean, generally the publication ban is in place until it's revoked.好的。吉莉安，帮我理解一下，出版禁令旨在保护谁？
英文原文
>> Okay. Yeah. Jillian, help me understand who are publications bans aimed at protecting.尤其是易受伤害的群体。我们在性侵案件中或者当事人是未成年人时会看到这种情况，特别是在性侵案件中，因为报案率如此之低，它旨在提供一条安全的途径，使人们能够安全地寻求司法系统的保护。因此，如果在这种意义上存在出版禁令，人们会更倾向于利用司法系统。
英文原文
>> Particularly probably vulnerable people. So we see in sexual assault cases or when people are minors, particularly in sexual assault cases, because we have such a low rates of reporting, it's meant to kind of be a safe avenue. So people can, you know, safely access the justice system. So if there's a publication ban in that sense, people are more apt to kind of utilize the justice system.当我们谈到报案率低时，具体是指什么？
英文原文
>> When we talk about low reporting, what are we what are we talking about here?性侵犯罪向警方报案的比例非常低。我们知道，警方方面也存在较高的处置混淆率；而且起诉率也很低。因此，受害者获得正义面临着多重障碍。
英文原文
>> So yeah, sexual assault crimes have very low rates of reporting to the police. And we know that we also see high rates of kind of confounding by the police. And we also have like low rates of prosecution. So there's multiple barriers for victims to get justice.一名曼哈顿法官裁定，简·多伊在提起诉讼期间可以保持匿名。德里尼，在性侵案件中，谁应当享有匿名权？
英文原文
>> A Manhattan judge ruled Jane Doe can remain anonymous as she pursues her lawsuit Dreeni in sexual assault cases. Who deserves the right to anonymity?对。我认为外界对匿名的含义存在真正的误解。实行出版禁令、匿名或使用化名的原因，是为了保护那些一旦身份被公开可能会受到某种伤害的弱势人群。这也是为了确保在公开审判制度和公开审判的正义原则之间取得平衡。
因此，出版禁令通常是为了保护幸存者，保护证人，保护陪审员。保护任何一旦身份泄露就可能受到伤害或可能导致审判不再公正的人。
因此，这并不是一种针锋相对的对等措施——并不是说如果保护了幸存者，就必须保护被告。被告有时受到保护，是因为他们可能与幸存者同姓或姓名相似，因此披露他们的姓名会间接透露她的身份。这绝不是因为被告本身有权获得匿名保护。
英文原文
>> Right. And I think it's a real misperception about what anonymity means. And the reason for publication bans or anonymity or pseudonym use is to protect vulnerable people who might be in somehow harmed should their identity be revealed. And that's and it's also to ensure that it's that balancing that open court system, open court justice principles. And so publication bans are generally there to protect survivors. They're there to protect witnesses. They're protect they're there to protect jurors. Anybody that who's if their identity is revealed, they could be harmed or the process may no longer be fair. And so it's not a measure for measure that if the survivors protected. Therefore, the defendants have to be protected. It's. The defendants are often sometimes protected because they might have names or similar names to the survivor, and therefore revealing their names would therefore reveal her identity. It's not because as defendants, they have the right to be there to be anonymous.吉莉安，从性侵案件的角度来看，你认为谁应当享有匿名权？
英文原文
>> Jillian your thoughts in terms of in sexual assault cases, who deserves the right to anonymity?嗯，我认为受害者绝对必须得到支持。我们必须让受害者从自身角度更容易进入司法程序，因为我们看到的报案率是如此之低。
但我认为，有时社交媒体上关于谁该被公开姓名、谁不该被公开姓名的讨论，让我们忽视了究竟是什么将这件事推向了社交媒体——那就是人们看到了机构回应、机构问责或体制正义的缺失。这就是为什么它演变成了一个导火索案件，因为人们将其视为特权年轻男性受到体制和司法系统庇护的一个典型范例。正是这一点引发了这一切。
英文原文
>> Well, I think definitely the victim has to be supported. We have to have more access to the judicial process from the victim's side, because we see such low levels of reporting. But I think sometimes this social media discussion of who should be named, who should not be named, we kind of lose sight of what brought this to social media, which was kind of people seeing a lack of institutional response, institutional consequence or institutional justice. So that's why it has become such a flashpoint case, because people are seeing it as an exemplar of cases where privileged young men are being protected by institutions, being protected by the justice system. So that kind of spurred all this.德里尼，在这起具体案件中，威胁也被指向了一名与案件完全无关的男子，仅仅因为他与其中一名被告同名。我很好奇，这是否表明在这起案件中，被告的身份也需要受到保护？
英文原文
>> Dreeni I want to talk in this particular case, threats have also been directed at a man who was completely unrelated to the case, outside of the fact that he shared the same name as one of the defendants. And I'm curious, does that play into, you know, seeing through that this case, that the identities of the defendants also need to be protected?嗯，正如我提到的，在民事案件中对吧？这与刑事案件中的证明责任并不相同，而这是一起民事案件。因此我认为，在任何案件中，如果涉及的任何一方受到任何形式的威胁，只要他们能够切实证明所遭受的这种伤害超过了公开审判制度的原则，他们绝对可以申请某种出版禁令或匿名保护。
英文原文
>> Well, as I mentioned on a civil case, right? It's not the same sort of burden as in criminal cases. And this is a civil case. And so I think definitely for any case where there's any kind of threat to any party involved in the case, they can seek some sort of publication ban or anonymity if they can really make a case that they're that that this harm is greater than these, these principles of the open court system.为什么在当下这个节点，女性和大众感到如此有力量去参与这种敏感、有时甚至可称之为禁忌的讨论？我们眼下是否正处于一个特殊的时刻？
英文原文
>> What is it about this moment that women, people feel so empowered right now to engage in a sensitive. Sometimes we might say, taboo discussion, but what is it? Is there a moment that we're having right now?是的，我认为这确实是一个时刻。这是一个导火索，就像我们在加拿大所讨论的那样，是一场更广泛的反思。这可以说是国际新闻。因此，当人们关注这起案件时，特别是社交媒体上的年轻女性，她们将其视为女性在遭受性侵后不被信任这一系统性模式的代表。因此，她们借此对女性遭受侵害以及年轻男性缺乏体制问责提出了更广泛的抗议。
英文原文
>> Yes, I would say that it is a moment. It's kind of a flashpoint, a broader reckoning, as we're talking about it in Canada. It's kind of international news. So when people are looking at this case, particularly young women on social media, they're seeing it as representative of kind of systemic patterns of women not being believed, women being getting after women experience sexual assault. So they're using it to make a broader claim of the victimization of women and kind of the lack of institutional consequence for young men.德里尼。
英文原文
>> Dreeni.是的，我想补充一点，因为每当我们审视性暴力案件时，幸存者往往感到非常孤立无援。如果发生了什么事，去讲述她们的故事、向任何人倾诉，往往会招致报复或其他形式的再次伤害。因此她们非常孤立。我认为在这个案例中，通过这样公开站出来，以及其他女性也站出来表示“我也是幸存者”，她们不再感到那么孤单。她们感受到了人多势众的力量，感受到了通过群体力量所带来的保护能力。
英文原文
>> Yeah, let's add on to that because also, too, when we look at sexual violence cases, many times survivors feel very isolated and alone. They if something's happened to them to tell their story, to disclose to anyone often has reprisal or other form of moments of victimization. And so they're really isolated. And I think in this case, when by this coming so forward in public and other women coming forward and saying, I'm also survivors, they don't feel so alone. And they feel that strength and number, that ability to be protected by coming out in numbers.传播媒介本身在多大程度上推动了围绕此事的讨论？
英文原文
>> How much does the actual medium help sort of build the conversations around this?嗯，我认为它创造了这样一个病毒式传播的时刻，让很多人觉得自己可以参与其中。因此我们看到年轻女性再次站出来保护这名年轻女子；但它同时也会带来负面影响，因为有时可能会出现媒体审判或社交媒体审判，无辜的旁观者会被卷入其中。一名年轻女性由于AI生成的摘要而被错误地指名为实际的受害者。因此，很多时候这类社交媒体行动可以引发更广泛的对话，但这种更广泛的社交媒体热潮也可能会带来意想不到的后果。
英文原文
>> Well, I think it has created kind of this viral moment where lots of people feel that they can participate. So we see young women coming forward again, protecting this young woman, but also it can there's also negatives to that, because sometimes we can get a little trial by media or trial by social media, where kind of innocent bystanders are kind of being swept up. One young woman was falsely being named as the actual survivor because of an AI summary. So a lot of the times with these social media campaigns, they can trigger, you know, broader conversation. But there's also consequences that may not be anticipated by having such a broader social media kind of moment.显然，这是一场发生在美国的讨论，但国界并不能阻断一切。我们也在进行这些对话。我们在加拿大见过类似的反弹吗？
英文原文
>> Obviously, this is a conversation that's happening in the US, but those borders don't mean anything. We have these conversations. Have we ever seen this sort of backlash here in Canada?我想提一下2021年的西安大略大学（Western University），当时约有9000名学生举行罢课游行。因此，同样地，我们在社交媒体上看到了这种言论的传播。我们看到带头抗议的人们在表达：这不仅仅是单单一门事件，这是长期以来缺乏应对、不把针对男性的暴力当回事以及制度性不作为的历史积弊。因此他们利用该事件推进了更广泛的指控，表明这是该大学内部存在的一种模式化和系统性问题。
英文原文
>> I would say the Western Western University 2021, where about 9000 students walked out. So again, we see this kind of claim circulating on social media. And we kind of see that the people that were spearing that were saying, this isn't just this one incident, this is a long history of lack of response, lack of not taking men's violence seriously and kind of institutional kind of inaction. So they use that kind of instance to forward broader claims that were a pattern and systemic at the university.是的，我很想补充这一点。当我们具体聚焦于校园强奸和校园性暴力的概念时，正如已经提到的，我们知道存在瞒报问题。因此我们在校园里看到了更严重的隐瞒不报。我们还知道，令人难过的是，性暴力的高发期——大多数受害者首次遭遇性暴力的年龄介于15至24岁之间。因此，当我们审视大学校园这个微观缩影时，这种情况尤为触目惊心，不幸的是，也极为普遍。
英文原文
>> Yeah, I'd love to add on to that. And just when we look specifically at the notion of the campus of campus rape and campus sexual violence, we know that, as you know, it was already mentioned, the underreporting. So we see even more underreporting on campus. We also know that the prime time of sexual violence, sadly, that the majority of victims are first encounter sexual violence between the ages of 15 and 24. So when we look at that sort of microcosm of the university campus, it's particularly egregious. And and unfortunately, very common.我们今天只能聊到这里了。但我非常感谢两位参与这场重要的对话，这也是我们将继续进行下去的对话。非常感谢二位。
英文原文
>> We are going to have to leave it there. But I want to thank you both for having this important conversation, a conversation that we will continue to have. Thank you so much.谢谢你。
英文原文
>> Thank you.谢谢。我的荣幸。
英文原文
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