So today we are in very good company with Ken Rolstrom the CEO and president of Daimler Truck which is the largest commercial vehicle producer in the world. Ken has recently been named Sweden's most important businesswoman and Dino Truck and at Daimler Truck she is driving the conversion of legacy diesel champion into a future ready mobility powerhouse. Now uh Colleen you combine uh engineering background background with a background in elite sport. So a warm welcome.

Thank you. So now you and I, we are going into a truck. Okay. You are sitting in the in the driving seat. I'm sitting next to you. And now you're going to tell me what what makes a good truck. What what do you what do you look for?

Uh well, the cab is like the driver's living room. Yeah. So that's what I look for basically. Is it practical? Is there storage space? How's the bed? Of course. Also, how do you interact with with the truck? Um, yeah, but I honestly I was thinking it didn't really change so much with all the new trends with electrification, digitalization. It's it's still a living room and a working office.

When people buy a truck, uh, what do they look what what what are the decisive elements? What is it that make you win the the purchase?

Um, well, I think it depends who which perspective you take. So now we started with like the driver perspective which is the cab and the living space but of course also that the truck does the job and I think they're still kind of old school so they want to go faster up the hill than their colleague with the other brand. So that's still important. Uh but then of course usually the people deciding which brand to buy are the owners and they look for the whatever truck will give them the best cost of operation because they're running a business. So

is there a big difference between the two views? So the driver and the owner sometimes. Yeah. But uh generally I think if you have good cost of operation means you invest into R&D, you have a good engine, good powertrain, generally the same brands also do more for the drivers. So

you um split it into segments of light, medium and and heavy. And where so where are you positioned? So we mainly focus on heavy duty but we we are a full liner with some of our brands. Um so for instance with with our Japanese brand Fuzo we are very strong on light duty. Um with Western Star in Freightlininer um we have both heavy duty but also some medium duty. So but I would say globally probably 50 60% at least heavy duty.

How do you make money? Is it by selling the trucks or is it by servicing them or repair or what is it? hopefully both. But uh for sure like one of the upsides that we have as Daimler truck compared to some of our competitors is we can get even better with services. Um where basically in the old structure that we had in Daimler which was a big conglomerate you know with Mercedes-Benz cars until three years ago a lot of the service stuff was done through the mothership. Um, so that's something I think we're catching up and we're developing right now and growing.

How cyclical is the market and I mean what are what are the drivers? What what do you look at in which times are you selling more trucks? Uh, generally it runs pretty much in parallel with the overall economy. So you know when people are investing into building projects, construction, they need trucks. Uh, if people are ordering more goods to parcels or whatever, you need trucks to bring them to the people. So I would say overall it just generally really follows the or even I would say sometimes we know early how the general economy is going to develop because we see the how much the trucks are running and we see the buying and purchase behavior of our customers.

So what are you seeing just now? Uh yeah it's not looking so great unfortunately. So it's it's pretty slow market. Um we don't I mean why why is it slow? Um I think in the US at the moment a lot of uncertainty about where the economy is going to go and I think uncertainty is never good for our customers then they rather just run the fleet and they wait

because it's a big investment right? Yeah it's it's the most important investment they do in their business. Mhm. Um and in Europe like we hear a lot of positive things like you know for instance in Germany we have the infrastructure spending a lot of defense initiatives but so far we don't really see it in in the market.

Why do you have so many brands? You got you know Freightlininer Mercedes Fuso Western Star. Easier just to have one. Yeah we have we have even more actually. uh but it it comes from history uh and and they all stand for different things for the customers I would say.

Um so if I give an example on the coach side we have Cetra which is actually positioned higher than Mercedes-Benz um and that's something we acquired um yeah now many years ago. So that has a higher brand value than Mercedes um for a coach customer. And why why would you take that away or Western Star in the US? That's a super strong brand for like heavy duty timber construction. Um so it makes sense to to keep most brands and then of course sometimes we buy stuff where we might consider changing the brand too.

Now we're seeing in uh in cars but also in tracks uh the trend towards uh more technology, more software and so on. How how is it to change a 100 year old company into a software company? Uh it's not easy. I mean we're I I don't think we will become a software company per se. Yeah. Uh but for sure one of the biggest tasks I have as CEO is to drive culture change

to make I mean we talk a lot about in diamond the truck about simpler, faster, stronger which is what we especially simper faster is something we need to do and and we need to have in mind in everything we do which will hopefully then make us stronger. Our processes are developed for product development and for kind of slow cycles you know like a diesel engine takes like five six years to develop. Um so we have to challenge everything right now and I think that's the most difficult but also interesting part of my job actually to try to drive that change.

And how do you do that? I mean uh Schlutgkart is not exactly Silicon Valley right? So uh you know just in terms of attracting the talent and I think um we I spent a lot of time actually thinking about how to drive culture change um and uh I think we found kind of a good method which is um if you look at culture it's actually just it's a bunch of different practices that you have in a company and in order to change practices you need to look at like acknowledge or or or kind of where what's the target picture? Where do we want to go? And I talked about this simpler faster. So that's like addressing just the awareness of the people kind of you know putting the posters on the wall in the elevator or like uh you know you bring everyone a t-shirt that says simpler, faster, stronger. Uh but then to really drive change you also need to look at like which processes and methods do we have?

Um, so that's like the structured things and how do we want to change those? And then I think the third thing you need to look at which is maybe the most important but also the hardest to grasp that's like all the behaviors that exist that are not written but that are part of how we do things. Um, well that's the definition of copaculture. to grab them and you have to very I think persistently address and change some of the kind of key key topics. You have to look at all of those.

How long time do you think it takes to change corpora culture? How long is a string? It's I think really hard to answer because it's it's also not about you've been running in one direction and you move everything 180 degrees. that that's not what we want to do and I don't think we will be successful. We don't want to be like the startup from Silicon Valley because we're not going to be successful if we try to be that company. But I think to really make a step change you probably need four five years in a I mean in a we're also global company 100 5,000 people.

So obviously in a smaller company you can do it faster. Yeah. It's still tough. I mean, you know, our company is 700 people and it's still um it's not done overnight. Huh. But what what part of that cultural change do you do you think it's the the toughest? I think being in this German context, we have a lot of pride in in our attention to detail. Um so I think over time that has also been part of our success in the past. But to dare to let go a little bit, to try new things and to push things through a little bit faster is difficult for people. Um so that's something quite challenging but we also see that we cannot work at the speed that we have done if we want to be competitive in the future.

I mean you are in a it's it's an incred you are at an incredible time in your business right because you know uh you have a trend towards uh you know uh battery uh focus on climate uh digitalization connectivity uh geopolitics uh software yeah absolutely you know the whole software development so how do you prioritize yeah I would say those are like the general things happening but then at the same time we're just three years old, four years old as a company soon. So we are just becoming like a standalone independent company. Um and we're driving culture change and we need to improve our performance. Um so how do you prioritize? I think it's not that different from in normal times.

You have to write down what are like the top five things I need to get done. in some perspective. I usually do it like half year cycles and just make sure to really get the most important things done and that also means sometimes some things have to wait that are also important. Um

well let's let's unpick it a bit. Let's start with the software. What are the kind of things you are developing on the software side? Um, but we just I think we're still, if you look at how the truck looks today, for sure a lot happened over the last couple of years, but I would still it's I would say it's still pretty old style. So, we have a lot of um HPUs or we have a lot of ECUs like electronic control units, couple of hundred in the truck and they all steer different functions. Um so that makes us kind of slow because we also code design with our suppliers and we every time we want to develop a new function you need to touch the hardware and the software.

Um so what we are doing now we just formed a new company um together with Volvo actually um to to do the basic layers together. Um and what we want to do is to have a couple of high performing computers um and then independently develop the software. So it's very much following what the car industry has been moving towards. But it's a little bit different for trucks because we need just different functions. So when when you are done with this work and it's kind of totally software enabled, what what is different? Um what you can do is you can do a lot more things software only. Um so you don't need to touch the hardware in the truck at all as much which makes you much faster. Um and and the sensors in the truck can be dumber because you have the compute really centralized in one unit.

Do you think there will be a time where you sell uptime and instead of selling the truck you just sell? I mean we we are moving in that direction. We do it to some extent today because we do full service lease contracts. Um so we're definitely going in that direction and I would say already in some city bus tenders we have an uptime guarantee of how how much the the bus should be running. M um and I think it's an opportunity with electrification because it brings so much uncertainty for our customers where all they want to do is take down risk and if we can manage that risk better then um we should be able to offer them uptime. So yes,

tell me about the trend towards uh autonomous vehicles in the truck business. Yeah. Well, I don't know if it's a trend, but it's obviously something where we invest a lot. Um we believe the best place to do it is in the US. Um because I mean first of all the driver wages are the highest. Um and also they drive extremely long distances. Um so we have our own company there called Torque uh which we own to 93% [Music] uh where we're we're developing this u where the software to drive autonomous and then of course you need to do a lot on the truck side. You need to have every system needs to be redundant. So in case there is a failure you need to be able to switch over to you know redundant braking or steering. Um, so that part we develop within Daimler and the software we develop in Torque, but we also work I mean we've worked with Whimo for instance for for many years until they stepped out of trucking.

Yeah. Is so is it very difficult to make a self-driving truck compared to a self-driving car? Very good question. I I'm asking all experts that I'm getting kind of into this myself. So uh on the one hand uh it's easier because it's you know mainly driving on highway. Yeah. So you don't have all these edge cases. But on the other hand, um it's driving, you know, 90 kilometers an hour and if something happens, the the accident can be pretty severe. Um so in the end, I'm still looking for the answer.

When do you think when you But I mean, we see robo taxes already today running in some cities and we don't yet see autonomous trucks. So I guess when will we see it? When will we see Oh, I think uh 27 28 in commercial um lines. I mean, there's already some tests. Uh we do a lot of driver out stuff. Uh but we still have the safety drivers sitting in the chair. Um so, uh it's not that far off.

No. When will the uh what about the new competitors coming into that area? Yeah, I mean I think we see the opportunity because on the one side you have the hardware and and we're going to develop that and and that's also going to be a competitive advantage if you have a good redundant chassis and there we believe we are super well positioned. So we could work with new competitors like Aurora or Kodiak or or or other players but then of course with Torque we compete with them. uh but we believe that because we have that close because we're working closely with Daimler and torque that's an advantage for us um which should help us.

Another thing is of course the decarbonization uh uh kind of dilemma you just how are you going to get to zero emission. Yeah, it's a good question. So um we have developed electric trucks. So we basically can offer electric trucks in almost all use cases. Um in the US we see environmental legislation kind of rolled back. So we believe it will just slow down significantly now. Um and it will probably take to beyond 2030 before we see it picking up again. Uh while in Europe we have very tough legislation that pushes um electrification.

I think the challenge there is that for our customer to um transition from diesel to electric there needs to be three things in place and we usually say it's like an equation. So you need to have the truck uh and that's obviously we have one available so do our competitors um you need to have uh TCO so cost of operations needs to be competitive um and there it starts to get there I would say in some use cases especially um if you drive longer distances because the truck is always going to be more expensive to buy electric than a diesel but then the running cost is lower and we also see like in Germany we have the road taller system the mount which has an advantage for electric trucks which is around 30 cents per kilometer so it's like the cost of operation starts to be comparable

and then the third part of the equation is the infrastructure to be able to charge um in the depo or along the route and I believe that's the most difficult challenge to solve Um and then maybe coming back to where we started as you know if you have an equation and one part is zero nothing happens. So where we really need to see more initiatives and and more speed is on the infrastructure side. Um

so how do you cope with this situation where Europe is uh you know full speed ahead and the US is kind of pressing on the on the brake you know. Yeah. Well, there were some projects that we planned uh to have as global projects like battery platforms and stuff where uh we are now looking like can we do more with partners, can we derisk to buy for a longer time things that we were planning to develop ourselves. Um so I think that's kind of stepwise looking at because there's also in Europe uncertainty how quickly it's going to scale and like in everything we do we try to think of the low volume scenario and the high volume scenario. So, as an example, when we were integrating the electric trucks into the production line, we do it on the same line as where we're producing the diesel. And that way, we can really balance depending on how the demand develops.

What are you uh what are your thoughts on hydrogen? Uh well, we really believe hydrogen is necessary if Europe is serious about decarbonization. um because we see already today when I think this year to date around 3% of trucks registered were electric and all the struggles our customers already have on the infrastructure side to get electrified because of grid challenges because of not enough green electricity in Europe. Um so if you look in a longer perspective there is no way you're going to have six million trucks in Europe all running electric. And that's where hydrogen plays a role.

Some people say that hydrogen won't like it doesn't make sense because it's less efficient than diesel, which is true in a sense, but I believe it's an answer to the wrong question because Europe is going to need to import energy and a good way to do that will be as a hydrogen molecule. Um, and then you might as well use it in a truck and that's a pretty efficient flow. And actually also building hydrogen infrastructure when you scale it is less expensive than to try to scale electric infrastructure only. So there will be a point where we will need hydrogen. So you are developing both. We are developing both. Yeah. If you were to put your money on one of them. Well, electric is more here and now and hydrogen is still some years off. But if we're serious about decarbonization, it won't work with just one. We need both.

When you look at China and the electrification we are seeing in the trucks business, I mean CL was just out and said that by 2028 they expect 50% of the the new trucks to be electric. Um, what are your when you see that kind of statement, what are your reflections? Well, I think it's not so far off where we need to be in Europe if we're going to deliver on the CO2 targets. So, my reflection is we need to speed up. We need in Europe more initiatives to build the infrastructure. Um, and I also think we have a unique opportunity in Europe because we are still leader in this space. You know, if you look at the big global companies in the trucking space, three out of the four big ones are European and we're leading in technology. So, I think there's still time, but uh we need to start moving faster. And it's not just about the companies, it's also about legisl legislation, infrastructure. I think we spend way too much effort and money just to fulfill let's say sometimes I say stupid regulations that we have in Europe instead of investing into innovation and and really moving to stay ahead

and to give you an example we're also right now investing in Euro7 which is the next level diesel uh regulation it would be much better it's a small difference between Euro in Euro7 to start with. So the current diesel standard and the coming one. So if we could have invested those couple of hundred millions into electric infrastructure, it would have been much better for Europe and for the companies and for our customers.

How fast is the the buildout of um kind of battery swap stations compared to what it need to be? Uh well, it's not so easy for trucks because you know each battery weighs like one two tons. Yeah. Um, so we actually don't really think that's the path for trucks in but that but that's what they think in China, right? I think it's it started like that. I think it's moving a little bit away from that. I think they're trying both. Um, so we're obviously following that. We do some small stuff also with with battery uh swap in Japan. So some pilot projects and stuff. So learning about the technology. Um but I think it will not be feasible at least not for heavy duty trucks. Uh but let's see.

How do you see your development in China? Well, we are in a joint venture there with with Photon. We've been for 12 years. I don't think it's a secret that we haven't quite developed as we would have liked. Um and that's something we're currently discussing with our partner like how can we turn that around? How can we be more successful? And is there a way for us as diamond truck to be also profitable in China?

K I'd love to spend a bit more time on on the cultural issues. So you spent uh nearly two decades at Scania before uh moving to Germany. What was the biggest kind of cultural surprise surprise for sweet to come to Germany? Uh well I actually I was super surprised just when they called me if I'm interested in the job because I know I was you know not just a Swede but also a woman. I didn't speak German. I'm not a doctor. I was younger than most of the other people in those kinds of jobs. So actually when they first called they thought they just wanted a CEO for Sweden and then they're like no no it's the global it's the global job.

So why do you think they call you? Um I think they wanted to have an outside perspective. Uh they'd realized kind of somehow they needed to shake the system a little bit. Um, I think the biggest surprise was I thought it was going to be a little bit maybe more stiff and more old school. So I I was even, you know, talking to my husband like, do I need to buy suits now? And like like actually today I'm wearing a suit, but that's really unusual for me. Um, and then so I came in and it was not like that in a positive sense.

I think the other thing was obviously I knew especially MercedesBenz trucks as a competitor and I always view them as like super strong. You know, we have this uh exhibition every two years called the IAA and we would always have a little bit of an ex stand and you know, some trucks and have some coffee with customers and then you walked into like the Daimler part and they had like a whole hall. It was like a kingdom. You could walk up the stairs and you could stand and like look at the Daimler kingdom. So I thought people would be a little bit like that style, a little bit maybe overconfident and and uh not really interested in in other perspectives. But that was very wrong in a in a positive sense. So when I came in, I I found a lot of curiosity. I felt very welcome. Um, and I think that was kind of a prerequisite obviously to get in and get stuff done.

We tend to think that Germany is very there is a lot of hierarchy in German organizational structures. How do you how did you experience that? I think there is much more than in a Scandinavian company. But I I also have the experience like in the end um I had another cultural experience because I I worked in Sweden many years and then I moved to Kenya and I did this cultural training and they said, "Oh, now you have to be different. You cannot do this consensus and blah blah blah. You have to be more directive and you have to tell the people what to do." And then I came into this Kenyan business and I found You know, people want to see the purpose of what they do. They want to be part of a bigger context. They want to see appreciation for what they do. Um, they want to spend their time like they want to feel when they're in the office or in the factory or on the workshop floor that what they do is meaningful and that they're spending their time in a good way. Um so I think very similar to German companies it's like there is some hierarchy but in the end people want to do meaningful things they want to contribute

for sure there were more things coming to the CEO level I was really surprised in the beginning at like all the things I had to sign off and you know I had to one of my first meetings when I came in I was going to go look at the new cab the one we just launched now a couple months ago and I went to our design center and we're looking at it and then I said oh that's nice and then they were all looking at me waiting for something and they're like you have to approve it formally and if you do that you're going to be like the first one who's not like everyone always comes and they want to change a little thing or two and then I'm like well I'm not a design expert on cabs so I trust that you guys you know did your job and I'm not going to approve this because like I'm not a driver. I'm not buying these trucks. So, you should be asking our customers. So, I think stuff like that. Are there a lot of decisions you have pushed down in the system? I Yeah. Yeah.

What about um like Sweden is consensus driven? Uh but in Germany, you have very high uh union participation, right, in decision-m and at board levels. How is there a difference there? Yeah, sure. Uh this is obviously something I had to learn coming into to Daimler and I I probably made some mistakes in the beginning just being super rational. So I remember there was one example where we had these people sitting in each of our spots in Germany or where we have factories receiving parts like quality defect parts and analyzing them. And I said, you know, let's just move everything to one place because then these people can work together. And I totally underestimated, you know, it it matters for these different or like the places, the towns to keep the work. Uh so that's something where I think I learned a lot and I have today a very good relation I would say with our union and works council

for sure. we have really tough that's something I like with Germany you know it's in Scandinavia you have to be a little bit careful how you debate with people in Germany you can more you can go headtohead uh and really say your opinion but it's not personal so I think that's something um where the where I learned a lot with the works council we have super tough discussions but with the people in diamond the truck representing that side, they also just want what's best for the company. And in the end, we have sometimes different perspective on how to get there, but we're all working because we want to be successful and we want this company to exist in the longer perspective in the 50 and 100 years from now. So, I think we we find good solutions and I don't think it's as complicated as people outside Germany tend to make it. It's just another group that you need to make sure you align with and find solutions with.

I mean, um, if you really think about it, it's it's an extraordinary situation that, uh, here there is a young, uh, Swedish woman coming in to run uh, kind of a a big wellestablished uh, German male uh, dominated uh, industry. What um what do you think is the key to build trust with people when you get into that kind of situation? I mean for me I was also the first woman in many different roles and so on in Sweden. Um so I'm kind of used to it but I think it's to come in uh obviously competence speaks for itself. So to show that you know what you're talking about.

Um I also had the benefit coming into my old role running Mercedes-Benz trucks that we had really good development. So I could show that I'm delivering. Um we we went from I think 4.8% return on sales my first year, then 8.1, then 10.1 last year. A little bit of a of a setback due to low markets, but it's really been moving in the right direction. And I think that's the best way to to build trust. Uh but then I think also

when you come in from another company to really try to avoid this is how we did it in Scania. Oh, this is how Scanya does it. Like to there is usually a reason why companies do things the way they do. So it's better to listen and to understand why and not try to copy whatever worked in another company because people get so tired I think of this is how we did it. This is the better way. So rather listen to understand the context of why things are the way they are because that gives you also a better um platform to change it in in the direction it needs to go.

What are your most important leadership principles? someone who worked for me some years ago. She she described it quite well. Tough love, she said, and I thought that was good because I'm quite demanding. H it's maybe one of the things I still need to work on. Like I'm never really or it's not like I'm unhappy, but I always want to take it to the next level. So, we reached like a milestone. I'm already thinking about the next one and I could probably get better at showing appreciation, but I'm tough. So, always pushing forward, but hopefully I do it in a way that I also show that I care about the people and I want them to grow and I try to push them a little bit to do things they didn't dare to do, take decisions as we talked about, making them really accountable. Um, so that's the one part

and then I rely a lot on the team probably more than other CEOs. I spend a lot of time consciously building the team also getting to know each other maybe not we don't have to be privately you know best friends but personally really understanding the driving forces and getting to the level where you can be vulnerable with each other and kind of get power from the team. Um so that's important for me.

If we were to look at those two things, given that you have been on the national rowing team in Sweden for several years, yeah, and rowing in, you know, world championships and so on. The first thing about setting new goals and pushing to new standards and so on, well, I'm sorry, this is a leading question, but I'm sorry. Sorry, let me just rephrase it. Uh, how do you think your background in sports has influenced your leadership principles? if you do the first one, if you do the first one first, setting new goals that it's pretty obvious. So, I think that's that's where I learned it. And it's like that's what professional sports is all about. It's like about constantly pushing yourself to the next level. And for me, it was like I never thought I would at first my dream was to win a Swedish championships. And then I reached that very quickly. my brain is reccalibrating. I want to make the national team and then I want to row in the World Cup and stuff. So, I think that's that's just how I work. And I think it's also a prerequisite to get there.

Um, and in the dayto-day it's even more concrete because it's like, you know, you do something brutal like uh the worst thing as a rower I think is intervals on the rowing machine because it's very digital. So it tells you exactly. Um, so I would do a really hard workout and by the end, you know, you're falling off the machine lying on the floor basically and you know exactly how you perform and then you go back next week and you can actually do it a little bit better. And I think that's so that's comes from there and that I think made me that's also what makes it fun. You can always step by step also in in Daimler the truck now we do small things and then when you zoom out over time you see we're really moving so that comes from the rowing I think.

And what about the team aspect? Yeah I mean obviously I raised actually both. It's a very good sport rowing because it's both an individual sport and a team sport I think more than most other sports because you're racing in a in a team boat. So, I raced a lot in the double, but then maybe later in the day, you're racing in the singles against each other. So, you're both competitors and teammates. And uh one thing I learned very clearly is um if you're racing in a team boat, you have to be both physically and mentally fit because it doesn't matter how well prepared I am if someone else is sitting in that boat and is not ready. And I think a lot about that also as a leader that my job is really to enable everyone else to be fit mentally and physically and to work efficiently. That's much more worth than me spending another two hours in the office, you know, making ideas or writing notes about something. It's it's much more important that the organization is healthy working and being efficient.

I listened to a podcast you did, I think it was 5 years ago, and you talked about the fact that your your your boss had seen the potential in you before you saw it yourself. Yeah. And that you tried to do that with other people. What's the key to doing that? I don't know. I think it's honestly one of my superpowers. I just I mean one key is obviously not to think too much about the CV and I just realized I do that much less than most others. So I put a lot of value in this personal interaction and it seems a lot of the time I'm able to I I actually don't know where it comes from. Maybe it's you know I lived in a lot of different places and learned a lot about different cultures and different different kinds of people. So I I I just get a good feeling like this is a person who will get it done or who will influence this organization in a positive way. Um and I use my gut feeling really a lot and also thinking more about what could they get done than what are they bringing that they have done.

How do you work with your gut feel? I think I I consciously listen to what it's telling me. Of course I don't. Do you do you have a good do you have a good gut feel? Yeah, I guess so. So far so good, but could fail me one day.

Who who do you turn to for advice? I have a lot of different people. So definitely different people on my team depending on the topic. Um, I have a good chairman, Joe Kesser, who I think also compliments me because the stuff he's really good at is the stuff I'm not so experienced with like, uh, public affairs, um, now capital market and all the investor stuff. A lot of M&A that he did also during his time in Seammens. Um, so him I I ask for advice. I have some others. Um, actually Jim Snape is is one. He used to be this CEO in Germany and he's the chairman in in Seibans. So he understands also this perspective of a Scandinavian in the German context. So he might can ask about stuff and and then I mean I mean Atlas Copco so asking other board members there for advice. So I think I reach a lot you know for the people who don't know Atlascop it's one of the finest Swedish engineering companies and we have everyone knows Atlas scope well you know we have people across the world and we have done a podcast with uh with them um

now you are also uh part of women's leadership network y why is that important or is that important yeah it's important I mean first of all I think it's also being kind of one of the first women not just in this job but but in a couple of jobs. I I see it as part of my role and I sometimes think in a positive way like if I succeed and I deliver it will open the door for other women. Um because yeah and I see it I mean I was for instance the first woman to run the bus business in Scania and after me only women. So I think it just opens people's minds. But I also I did a really good training with only women a couple of years ago called women for leaders. And first I was super skeptical because I never did stuff with women and I wasn't even used, you know, I never really worked a lot with women. But it was probably there that I realized truly that I need to be myself. And it's this kind of, you know, leadership advice you get from, oh, just be yourself. Don't try to be somewhere someone else. So, it's it's not like that was new. But I think that's easier said than done. And I think during that process is when I realized the strength of being who I am. And it gave me I think also some kind of context where I was more a norm and realizing also the strength of my leadership and my way of thinking and leading instead of having that but always still trying to do all the other stuff that I saw different colleagues do.

So on the podcast I normally never talk about uh gender uh when I speak to leaders but you you mentioned it several times. So, just as a followup, what do you think are the advantages of being a woman at the top of a big company? Uh, I have no idea. I I mean, I'm I don't know what it would be like if I was a man. I get this question actually quite often and I I bet you do, but you normally wouldn't get it from me, but just since you since you mentioned it, I mean, what are the person Do you think there are some gender uh particular gender qualities? It's it's hard to answer without generalizing. Yeah. But what I I think I'm maybe it's easier for me not to feel like I have to know everything and be like a superhero. Um I found a lot of male CEOs. I don't know if it's a German thing. I don't think so, but like feeling like you have to have all the answers. I for me it's pretty easy to admit I don't and to really truly listen to what experts think like this example with the design of the cap. Sure. You know for me was but it also takes a lot of confidence to admit that you don't know something right. Yeah maybe

you talk up your colleagues a lot. I do that too. I think it's very very important. I think they all deserve it but um not everybody does. What what are your reflections about that? I think it's comes very natural because the key apart from you know finding the talent and pushing people to to go beyond what they thought was possible. That's what makes a company successful is the people. Um, so it makes a lot of sense to give them credit when we accomplish something. I also think I'm not maybe a person I don't strive for, you know, being famous or having a big, I don't know, being a name after I finish my career. So maybe that helps. It's not about me. It's about the company and the people in the company and building a good future for the company and of course for the customers and so on. I I've never reflected on it actually.

Now we talked about uh we talked about the batteries and infrastructure. What is your personal charging station? The mountains I would say. So um I told you I'm actually on holiday right now. I just came from the mountains. So absolutely. Uh, but also I mean that's one of the things I love about living in South Germany. So we are two hours from the Alps. I go there almost every weekend. Um,

why is that important for you? First of all, it's family time. Um, second of all, being in the mountains. I mean, I I do sports. So now I'm doing a lot of trail running in the winter, crosscountry skiing or or touring. that both makes me recharged because I get to move physically um and also just being in nature. I think there is something special about that makes you not think about work and I believe that actually that's also one of the learnings from rowing is this balance between performance and recovery like that's the same in CEO life and I think a lot of people underestimate the recovery part. But actually that's probably as important as delivering and being on when you're on the job is recovering and recharging when you're off the job.

I think CEO stands for chief energy officer and so you also need you also need to charge to be able to deliver that. Um now I believe that you have a weekly ritual of self-reflection. Yes. How does that work? Um so every either it's Friday night or Saturday morning I sit down and I write uh what happened uh what did I feel what did I learn and I share that actually with someone who I did this training with Shalot um and we've been doing that for years and I think it's a good way both to really be aware of like what happened during the week did I accomplished what I what I planned also what did I learn? Um and it's also a way to let go of the week to get into the weekend in a good mood. Um and I yeah it works for me very well.

What do you do with the notes? I keep them and I don't know sometimes I go back and read but not very much. So I have like some big books at home with reflections. I know one other person who does this and this is Albert Benny. Okay. At Gabberit and Lonza and he's made it into a book which he has given to his daughter. Oh yeah. So perhaps that could be something for you. For my sons, maybe they will be interested one day.

Absolutely. What is your advice to young people? I think one advice I would have needed to hear myself is to just believe in yourself. Um I don't think I realized that I could make a difference in the world. So also coming in both applying for my first jobs and coming into my first jobs, I didn't have the self-confidence to believe I could contribute. So even when maybe this gut feeling was telling me things, I was holding it back. But I think that's this energy and the clearsightedness of young people we need in business. So believe in yourself, speak up, go for it and and really dream big. Anything is possible. Usually it's you know yourself stopping your mind. Don't make those limits. Just think big.

I think that's a wonderful place to um to end. Uh you are for sure one of the most impressive people we ever had on this podcast and very very personal and I could easily see why you are you know uh why you are considered the most important uh female CEO in this country. It's been an absolute pleasure. Big thank you. Thank you. [Music]