苹果的细节执念与产品叙事

A big lesson that I learned at Apple while I was there was the obsession with detail. There was a great sense of ownership and craftsmanship. Everyone deeply cared about making it right. 我在苹果公司学到的一个重要经验是对细节的执着。那里有一种强烈的归属感和工匠精神。每个人都非常关心如何把事情做好。

Also, when it came to design, building, and shipping, there was so much thought put into it. When you build a product, it's not just to solve a problem. It's almost like storytelling. It's a message. 此外，在设计、构建和发布产品时，投入了大量的思考。当你开发一个产品时，它不仅仅是为了解决一个问题，它更像是在讲故事，传递一个信息。

Great storytelling is really about that wow factor. If you're talking about from a product standpoint, you want to identify what the wow factor is and show that to your users as quickly as possible. And that's part of the reason why Steve Jobs was very obsessed about the computers saying hello. 好的故事讲述在于“哇”的因素。如果你从产品的角度来看，你需要找出“哇”的因素是什么，并尽快将其展示给用户。这也是史蒂夫·乔布斯对电脑说“你好”这件事如此着迷的部分原因。

Whenever you're developing a product, you're almost telling a message to the world what you're about. So yes, the best UI (User Interface: 用户界面，指用户与系统交互的界面) is an abstraction of the UI that doesn't need to prompt you for login, that doesn't need to prompt you for approvals. It should just happen automatically. 每当你开发一个产品，你几乎是在向世界传递一个关于你自己的信息。所以，是的，最好的用户界面是用户界面的抽象，它不需要提示你登录，不需要提示你批准。它应该自动发生。

Our ultimate goal for Magic is making technology feel invisible. One thing that I would say has expanded is we're now not just thinking about humans, we're also thinking about AI agents (Artificial Intelligence Agents: 人工智能代理，指能够自主感知环境、做出决策并执行行动的智能实体). You're able to trust that AI agent is making the right decisions and right actions even while you're asleep. Magic 的最终目标是让技术变得无形。我想说的一点是，我们的思考范围扩大了，现在我们不仅考虑人类，还在考虑 AI 代理。你能够相信 AI 代理即使在你睡着的时候也能做出正确的决策和行动。

Magic Labs：让加密技术触手可及

Sean: Hi. Hi everyone. My name is Sean. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Magic Labs. We are on a mission to make crypto (Cryptocurrency: 加密货币，一种使用密码学技术进行安全交易，并控制新单位创建的数字或虚拟货币) more accessible to everyday people. We were known for inventing the first Embedded Wallet (嵌入式钱包: 一种集成在应用程序或网站中的加密货币钱包，用户无需下载独立应用即可使用). 大家好。我叫肖恩，是 Magic Labs 的联合创始人兼首席执行官。我们的使命是让加密技术对普通大众更易于访问。我们因发明了第一个嵌入式钱包而闻名。

To date, we have onboarded over 50 million wallets and 200,000 developers across various breakout crypto applications like Poly Market, Helium, Immutable Wallet Connect to enterprises like Naver and Forbes, but also getting reinvestment from PayPal Ventures that at the time we were able to raise over $80 million in funding throughout this whole period. 迄今为止，我们已为超过 5000 万个钱包和 20 万名开发者提供了服务，涵盖了像 Poly Market、Helium、Immutable Wallet Connect 这样的突破性加密应用，以及 Naver 和 Forbes 等企业。我们还获得了 PayPal Ventures 的再投资，在此期间，我们总共筹集了超过 8000 万美元的资金。

Magic is also the developers behind the Newton protocol (牛顿协议: Magic Labs 开发的世界首个策略协议，旨在帮助保护和引导链上资产), which is the world's first policy protocol to help secure and onboard hundreds and trillions of new assets on chain (链上: 指在区块链网络上记录和执行的交易或数据) across AI, institutional crypto and beyond. Our vision is to upgrade the trust infrastructure in the world and help billions of users move on chain. Magic 也是牛顿协议的开发者，这是世界上第一个策略协议，旨在帮助保护和引导跨 AI、机构加密货币及其他领域的数万亿新资产上链。我们的愿景是升级全球的信任基础设施，并帮助数十亿用户进入链上世界。

创业之路：从星际争霸到 Kitematic

Sean: I was fortunate enough to have a computer very early on. Over the years, I was just really interested in the computer, played a lot of games and eventually was very interested in Starcraft. But at the same time, I was very interested in music. I thought that was what I was going to do. I really love playing jazz music; I played the saxophone. 我很幸运能很早接触到电脑。多年来，我一直对电脑很感兴趣，玩了很多游戏，最终对星际争霸非常着迷。但与此同时，我也非常喜欢音乐。我原以为那会是我的职业。我真的很喜欢演奏爵士乐，我吹萨克斯风。

So I talked to my dad and as an Asian parent, he found a very clever way to convince me. He was like, "Hey Sean, if you do software engineering, you only need to work one job and play music on the side." And I'm like, "Oh, that sounds great. I like computer. Jazz is kind of like creating music, art. Why don't I learn building and creating for real in school?" 于是我跟我爸爸谈了谈，作为一个亚洲家长，他找到了一个非常巧妙的方法来说服我。他说：“肖恩，如果你做软件工程，你只需要一份工作，业余时间可以玩音乐。” 我想：“哦，这听起来很棒。我喜欢电脑。爵士乐有点像创作音乐、艺术。为什么我不去学校真正学习如何构建和创造呢？”

So we applied to the Waterloo software engineering program and luckily I got in. That's how I went on the journey to truly learn to build things. But at the same time, Waterloo has a very strong startup culture. It was a super great environment where you can learn from each other, you can learn from your seniors. So I was very involved in that culture with the previous co-founders. The project was Kitematic. 所以我们申请了滑铁卢大学的软件工程项目，很幸运我被录取了。我就是这样踏上了真正学习如何构建事物的旅程。但与此同时，滑铁卢大学有着非常浓厚的创业文化。那是一个非常好的环境，你可以互相学习，向你的前辈学习。所以我与之前的联合创始人一起积极参与了那种文化。那个项目就是 Kitematic。

We went through a lot actually. We went through just so many ups and downs from working on Kitematic. When we launched the Dropbox for your code kind of product, we got 20,000 developers in one month and it was growing really, really fast. We had to raise money. We applied to Y Combinator (Y Combinator: 美国著名创业孵化器) and we actually got a recommendation there. But after we pitched, we were rejected from Y Combinator. 我们实际上经历了很多。在 Kitematic 的开发过程中，我们经历了太多的起起伏伏。当我们推出那种“代码版 Dropbox”的产品时，一个月内就吸引了 2 万名开发者，而且增长速度非常快。我们不得不筹集资金。我们申请了 Y Combinator，并且在那里得到了推荐。但我们路演之后，却被 Y Combinator 拒绝了。

So we actually had to ramp down the service to keep it running. Pretty challenging time. We were just new grads at our most desperate moments. We got an opportunity from Lightseed Ventures to come to the Silicon Valley for a summer, and they sponsored the whole summer. And so we came and they got all these great mentors to teach us not only how to build but to sell as well. 所以我们实际上不得不缩减服务以维持运营。那是一段相当艰难的时期。在最绝望的时候，我们都只是刚毕业的新人。后来我们得到了 Lightseed Ventures 的一个机会，去硅谷度过一个夏天，他们资助了整个夏天。于是我们去了，他们为我们找来了许多优秀的导师，教我们不仅如何构建，还要如何销售。

Essentially, from that process, we were able to iterate on Kitematic. We were able to get the requirement from actual DevOps (Development and Operations: 开发运营，一种软件开发方法论，旨在通过自动化和协作来提高软件交付的速度、质量和效率) people at companies who actually just wanted to run Docker (Docker: 一个开源的应用容器引擎，让开发者可以打包应用及其依赖项到一个可移植的容器中) for their team locally on the computer. And at the time, Docker was not very smooth; you couldn't really run it locally on Mac or Windows that easily. 基本上，通过那个过程，我们得以迭代 Kitematic。我们从公司里实际的 DevOps 人员那里获得了需求，他们只是想在本地电脑上为团队运行 Docker。而当时，Docker 运行得并不流畅；在 Mac 或 Windows 上本地运行它并不那么容易。

So we saw an opportunity. We brought the server software down to a local desktop environment so that you don't have to pay the server cost, and then we open sourced it to get maximum distribution. And so we launched Kitematic. It essentially took off and we were able to get interest from investors who gave us term sheets and also companies like Docker who reached out who wanted to acquire us as well. 所以我们看到了一个机会。我们将服务器软件移植到本地桌面环境，这样就不必支付服务器成本，然后我们将其开源以获得最大的分发量。Kitematic 就这样发布了。它基本上大获成功，我们吸引了投资者的兴趣，他们向我们发出了投资意向书，也有像 Docker 这样的公司主动联系我们，希望收购我们。

创业的非线性之路与摩擦中的真理

Sean: I would say the most important part of the journey was where you end up is never originally expected. Progress is not a very linear process. It's actually a lot like art. You know, the more you're super, super focused on one very specific outcome, you're kind of blocking yourself out of all different kinds of possibilities. 我想说，这段旅程中最重要的一部分是，你最终到达的地方从来不是最初预期的。进步并非一个非常线性的过程，它实际上很像艺术。你知道，你越是极度专注于一个非常具体的结果，你就越是把自己排除在各种可能性之外。

But you also can't get swayed too much. You want to commit to some kind of mission, right? For example, for us, it was like we really want to make it easy to build software. Just something like that. But with that mission, how you get there is very flexible. It's never 100% clear, right? 但你也不能太过动摇。你想要致力于某种使命，对吧？例如，对我们来说，就是我们真的想让软件开发变得更容易。就是这样。但有了这个使命，你如何实现它就非常灵活。它从来都不是百分之百清晰的，对吧？

And you're also at the same time dealing with a rapidly evolving environment, at the same time as your own customer need and your own company's limitations, right? They say these things like artists work with constraints, right? So there are all these constraints and changes, and I think diamonds come from the friction that you are dealing with in this process, just over the course of these many years, just building zero to one again and again. It's really getting the groove of this. 同时，你还在应对一个快速变化的环境，以及你自己的客户需求和公司自身的局限性，对吧？人们常说艺术家是在约束中创作的，对吧？所以存在着所有这些约束和变化，我认为钻石来自于你在这个过程中所处理的摩擦，在这些年里，一次又一次地从零到一地构建。这真的是在掌握其中的诀窍。

So when I hit a friction point, I'm actually excited because it kind of becomes an opportunity for you to find the truth that others wouldn't be able to see. So, definitely a big part of the lesson that I've learned over the years. 所以当我遇到摩擦点时，我实际上很兴奋，因为它变成了一个机会，让你找到别人无法看到的真相。所以，这绝对是我这些年学到的重要一课。

探索 Web3：从 IPFS 到以太坊的顿悟

Sean: We were able to work very, very closely with the founder of Docker, learning about decentralized technology at the time. By working with him, we were talking about IPFS (InterPlanetary File System: 星际文件系统，一种点对点分布式文件系统，旨在连接所有计算设备上的文件系统) when I didn't even know about Ethereum (以太坊: 一个开源的、基于区块链的分布式计算平台，以其智能合约功能而闻名). I was like, "What the hell is Ethereum?" and I was googling under the table. 我们与 Docker 的创始人进行了非常密切的合作，当时正在学习去中心化技术。通过与他合作，我们在讨论 IPFS，而那时我甚至还不知道以太坊是什么。我当时想，“以太坊到底是什么鬼东西？”然后偷偷在桌子底下用谷歌搜索。

After that, something about it really stuck with me. I went to some Berkeley meetups where I met a lot of the OG (Original Gangster: 指某个领域内的早期参与者或元老) like Web3 (Web 3.0: 第三代互联网，旨在实现去中心化、用户拥有数据和身份的互联网愿景) folks, and they were talking about all these use cases that blockchain can enable. Honestly, it kind of felt like a renaissance where people are in these coffee shops, bars just talking about really cool ideas, and these were really big ideas, right? 那之后，有些东西真的触动了我。我参加了一些伯克利聚会，在那里我认识了很多 Web3 领域的 OG（元老），他们谈论着区块链能够实现的所有这些用例。老实说，这感觉就像一场文艺复兴，人们在咖啡馆、酒吧里讨论着非常酷的想法，而且这些都是非常宏大的想法，对吧？

It's like moving finance on chain, how it's going to change governance, how it's going to change music, art, everything I wanted. Super interesting from an infrastructure perspective, but also from a use case perspective. It kind of showed me that blockchain is more than just cryptocurrencies you can buy and trade and transact, but also these use cases, right? So that's when I saw the vision. Yeah. I got goosebumps everywhere. I remember calling my mom. He's like, "Oh, I'm going to do this. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I have to be in this space." 这就像是将金融移到链上，它将如何改变治理、如何改变音乐、艺术，以及我想要的一切。从基础设施的角度来看非常有趣，但从用例的角度来看也同样如此。它让我看到区块链不仅仅是你可以买卖和交易的加密货币，还有这些用例，对吧？所以那时我看到了愿景。是的。我全身都起了鸡皮疙瘩。我记得打电话给我妈妈。他说：“哦，我要做这个。我不知道我要做什么，但我必须进入这个领域。”

痛点与契机：Web3 用户体验的破局

Co-founder: So Sean and I go way back. We actually both graduated in the same program called software engineering from Waterloo. Sean graduated two years ahead of me. We first both went off in our own direction. He sold the startup Kitematic to Docker and his product is now known as Docker Desktop (Docker Desktop: Docker 的桌面应用程序，方便在本地运行 Docker 容器). And for me, I joined Uber early in 2015 when the team was still very small, and I got to ride through the hyper growth phase. 我和肖恩很早就认识了。我们都毕业于滑铁卢大学的软件工程专业。肖恩比我早两年毕业。我们一开始都各自发展。他把初创公司 Kitematic 卖给了 Docker，他的产品现在被称为 Docker Desktop。而我，在 2015 年团队还很小的时候就加入了 Uber，并经历了其高速增长阶段。

So both of us dabbled into Ethereum around 2016 or 2017. And for me, I heard about Ethereum when I was just about graduating university, and I heard this guy named Vitalik and I heard this word Ethereum, and he's creating this new blockchain (区块链: 一种去中心化的分布式账本技术，数据以区块形式存储并以链式结构连接) called Ethereum. And at the time, I only knew about Bitcoin (比特币: 首个去中心化数字加密货币). So it really got me interested in looking more into technology. 我们俩都在 2016 或 2017 年左右涉足以太坊。对我来说，我在大学快毕业时听说了以太坊，听说了 Vitalik 这个人，听说了以太坊这个词，他正在创建一个名为以太坊的新区块链。当时我只知道比特币。所以这真的让我对深入研究这项技术产生了兴趣。

And what I liked about that was for me Bitcoin was more about just a value transfer, and at the time it was really fast. Now it's more considered as digital gold. But with Ethereum, it was adding logic into the blockchain. So imagine there's no middleman and you can pretty much peer-to-peer not just transfer value but actually add logic to it. Any form of contract, whether that agree on a contract on real estate when you sell assets tied to, let's say, prediction market, that's all can be facilitated through Ethereum. I got interested into that. 我喜欢它的一点是，对我来说，比特币更多地是关于价值转移，而且当时速度非常快。现在它更多地被视为数字黄金。但以太坊则是在区块链中加入了逻辑。所以想象一下，没有中间商，你可以几乎点对点地不仅转移价值，还能为其添加逻辑。任何形式的合约，无论是房地产合约，还是出售与预测市场相关的资产，所有这些都可以通过以太坊实现。我对这一点产生了兴趣。

And then for Sean, I remember he told me that he was trying out a couple projects on Ethereum, and he noticed that it was really hard to onboard new users. And for me, when I tried out Ethereum, I saw the potential of technology, but also I noticed the broken user experience as well. Funnily enough, we actually got to know that we both had seen the same painpoint. We actually reconnected in person. So that was in 2018. We met at an arcade bar in San Francisco called Coinop. 然后对于肖恩，我记得他告诉我他正在以太坊上尝试几个项目，他注意到新用户入门非常困难。而对我来说，当我尝试以太坊时，我看到了技术的潜力，但也注意到了糟糕的用户体验。有趣的是，我们发现彼此都看到了同样的痛点。我们实际上是线下重聚的。那是在 2018 年。我们在旧金山一家叫做 Coinop 的街机酒吧见面。

And it started as casual drinks and then became more like a 5-hour deep conversation. We kept circling back to one question: Why hasn't anyone tackled in simplifying onboarding in blockchain? Why hasn't anyone tried building a very easy login with email? And that's the moment when it clicked. That was a solution to the fundamental problem of blockchain with the broken user experience. So we built the conviction there and we decided to team up and start Magic Labs. 一开始只是随便喝几杯，后来变成了一场长达 5 小时的深入对话。我们不断回到一个问题：为什么没有人解决区块链入门的简化问题？为什么没有人尝试用电子邮件构建一个非常简单的登录方式？那一刻，我们茅塞顿开。这就是解决区块链用户体验糟糕这一根本问题的方案。于是我们建立了信念，决定组队创办 Magic Labs。

苹果经验的再思考：速度与完美

Co-founder: At Apple, I worked on a couple things. One was integrating Apple Maps into Siri. The other one was directly working on the tokenization pipeline. A big lesson that I learned at Apple while I was there, the obsession with detail and especially it being spread through the leaders like Steve Jobs, Tim Cook and Jony Ive. Couple things that I noticed was there was a great sense of ownership and craftsmanship. Everyone deeply cared about making it right. 在苹果，我做过几件事。一件是将 Apple Maps 集成到 Siri 中。另一件是直接负责令牌化（tokenization）流程。我在苹果学到的一个重要经验是对细节的执着，尤其是这种执着通过史蒂夫·乔布斯、蒂姆·库克和乔纳森·伊夫等领导者传播开来。我注意到有几点：那里有一种强烈的归属感和工匠精神。每个人都非常关心如何把事情做好。

Also, when it came to design, building and shipping, there was so much thought put into it. At Apple, every task or every idea that we had, we approached it with a perfectionistic mindset. When I started Magic with Sean and all the times we're building along the way, one thing that I realized was perfection takes time. There's no way you can get it right as a small company going from zero to one to come out with a product that's perfect. I don't think anyone in the world can do that. 此外，在设计、构建和发布产品时，投入了大量的思考。在苹果，我们对待每一个任务或每一个想法都带着完美主义的心态。当我与肖恩共同创立 Magic，以及在构建过程中，我意识到完美需要时间。作为一家从零到一的小公司，不可能一上来就推出一个完美的产品。我认为世界上没有人能做到这一点。

When it came to zero to one, we focused on shipping fast, getting the product out so that we can get user feedback. And we focused on really leaning into their feedback, but also trusting our intuition of what the next stage of the product can be. So after multiple and multiple iterations, that's when I started to kind of slip in certain parts that we can perfect. 在从零到一的阶段，我们专注于快速发布，将产品推向市场，以便获得用户反馈。我们专注于认真倾听他们的反馈，但也相信我们对产品下一阶段的直觉。因此，在多次迭代之后，我开始在某些我们可以完善的部分进行改进。

And also with a lot of user feedback, you see these patterns where it helps you build confidence on investing in certain features to make it very perfect. So my overall lesson is it's something that should always stay with you, but it's very important to find the right time and find the right opportunity to practice that profession. 而且，通过大量的用户反馈，你会看到一些模式，这有助于你建立信心，投入某些功能使其达到完美。所以我总体的经验是，完美主义应该一直伴随着你，但找到合适的时间和机会去实践这种专业精神非常重要。

挑战 Web3 教条：简化用户体验与非托管密钥管理

Co-founder: Before Magic came into the scene, the only people that could use blockchain were crypto enthusiasts or technologists. At the time, I would say using a blockchain kind of felt like trying to assemble IKEA furniture without any instructions given to you. You had all these unfamiliar parts and at every step along the way, you have to figure out on the fly. It was so confusing that most people had given up even before finishing a setup. 在 Magic 出现之前，能够使用区块链的只有加密货币爱好者或技术专家。当时，我想说，使用区块链的感觉就像是试图组装宜家家具，却没有给你任何说明书。你有很多不熟悉的零件，每一步都需要你即时摸索。这太令人困惑了，以至于大多数人在完成设置之前就已经放弃了。

And for example, in crypto, you have to first download a browser extension, and then you have to write down the seed phrase, and also figure out how to store that safely. Also, you had to read and sign these unreadable blockchain messages without really knowing what you're agreeing to. On top of that, there are gas fees and there are more and more blockchain jargon. It was definitely overwhelming. 例如，在加密货币领域，你必须首先下载一个浏览器扩展，然后记下助记词，还得想办法安全地存储它。此外，你还必须阅读并签署那些难以理解的区块链信息，却不知道自己到底在同意什么。最重要的是，还有燃料费（gas fees）和越来越多的区块链行话。这绝对是令人望而生畏的。

And where Magic came in, we came up with a very simplified onboarding solution: login with email, phone number and social login. What we did was we took blockchain that was powerful but yet it was inaccessible, and we made it feel familiar, seamless and secure. 而 Magic 正是在这里介入的，我们提出了一种非常简化的入门解决方案：通过电子邮件、电话号码和社交媒体登录。我们所做的就是将强大但难以访问的区块链，变得熟悉、无缝且安全。

So the biggest reason why people didn't do that at the time because the de facto standard was using browser extensions, and there were a lot of dogmatic sort of sentiment in Web3 space where as an end user you have to manage your private key 100%. By writing it down and burying it like a pirate treasure, right? That was kind of where the space was at just from a sentiment perspective. 所以当时人们没有这样做最大的原因是因为事实上的标准是使用浏览器扩展，而且在 Web3 领域有很多教条式的观点，认为作为终端用户你必须百分之百地管理你的私钥。通过把它写下来，像海盗宝藏一样埋起来，对吧？从情感角度来看，当时这个领域就是这样的。

We saw the opportunity is that there's a lot of frustration from users, from developers, from having to deal with this dogma, but the vocal minority was really pushing the full decentralization narrative. What we were working on was extremely controversial at the time, and we actually got a lot of heat on Twitter at the time for even doing this or even thinking about doing this. So I think that naturally deterred people from working on this. 我们看到了机会，那就是用户和开发者对必须处理这种教条感到非常沮丧，但那些发出强烈声音的少数人却在极力推动完全去中心化的叙事。我们当时正在做的事情极具争议性，我们甚至因为这样做或仅仅是考虑这样做而在 Twitter 上受到了很多批评。所以我认为这自然阻止了人们从事这项工作。

Also at the time because people were deterred from doing this, they assumed that there's no other way to build a non-custodial key management (非托管密钥管理: 用户完全控制自己的加密货币私钥，资产不存储在第三方平台) solution because they haven't really looked into the solution in the first place. They say, "Oh, it's very difficult. People are not going to want this anyway. People want decentralization." 此外，当时由于人们被劝退，他们认为没有其他方法可以构建非托管密钥管理解决方案，因为他们根本没有真正研究过这个方案。他们说：“哦，这太难了。反正人们也不会想要这个。人们想要去中心化。”

Whereas for me it's like, "Hey, can we do more on the technical part so we can actually get the best of both worlds?" We can both offer Web2 style login but also Web3 style non-custodialness. We went down the rabbit hole to solve this specific problem because we also noticed in our sales calls a lot of the dApp (Decentralized Applications: 去中心化应用，运行在区块链网络上的应用程序) developers were asking, "Hey, how is it non-custodial? If it's too centralized, it's too risky. We don't want that." 而对我来说，我问的是：“嘿，我们能不能在技术上做得更多，以便真正兼顾两全其美？”我们既可以提供 Web2 风格的登录，又可以提供 Web3 风格的非托管性。我们深入研究解决了这个特定问题，因为我们还在销售电话中注意到，许多 dApp 开发者都在问：“嘿，它是如何实现非托管的？如果它太中心化，风险就太大了。我们不想要那样。”

So we actually had to solve this problem, and this showed up in investor conversations as well. All of that pressure actually forced us to solve the problem because we were already on the path to solve this. We were able to invent the first non-custodial key management patent called delegated key management (委托密钥管理: 一种非托管密钥管理方案，用户将部分密钥管理权限委托给受信任的服务提供商，但仍保留最终控制权), and we ended up filing a patent for it. 所以我们实际上不得不解决这个问题，这在与投资者的对话中也体现出来了。所有这些压力实际上迫使我们解决了这个问题，因为我们已经走在这条解决问题的道路上。我们成功发明了第一个非托管密钥管理专利，名为委托密钥管理，并最终为其申请了专利。

So actually that technology was a key factor to how we were able to complete our seed round. Because at the time there were these huge crypto exchange hacks, really scared the investors around investing in any kind of centralized key management solution. But we were able to bring this new innovative tech which made a huge difference and that's how we were able to grow very quickly early on because it strikes the best balance in both worlds. 所以实际上，这项技术是我们能够完成种子轮融资的关键因素。因为当时发生了大规模的加密货币交易所黑客攻击事件，这让投资者对投资任何中心化密钥管理解决方案都感到非常恐惧。但我们能够带来这项创新的新技术，这带来了巨大的不同，也正是这样我们才能在早期快速成长，因为它在两个世界中取得了最佳平衡。

Instead of leveraging fully smart contract wallets (智能合约钱包: 基于智能合约构建的加密货币钱包) at the time which didn't scale super well or super centralized solutions which had a lot of friction in terms of adoption. So that's how we were able to really get to where we were. 而不是当时那些扩展性不佳的完全智能合约钱包，或者在采用方面存在诸多摩擦的超级中心化解决方案。这就是我们能够达到今天成就的原因。

熊市中的坚守与信念

Co-founder: In 2018, the crypto market had completely taken a downturn. I remember crypto was being called a scam from media headlines. The ICO bubble had burst. Definitely the people that are left over in the space were the true believers of crypto and the true builders of crypto, and we're definitely one of them. 在 2018 年，加密货币市场完全陷入低迷。我记得当时媒体头条称加密货币为骗局。ICO 泡沫已经破裂。毫无疑问，留在圈子里的人都是加密货币的真正信徒和真正的建设者，我们绝对是其中之一。

For us, even though the market had completely taken a downturn, we saw an opportunity to solve a real fundamental problem, and that was the broken user experience. Sean and myself, we weren't discouraged at all. That's something that we truly believed in that needed to be solved. And at the same time, for me at Apple, I learned that user experience is actually everything, and someone in the space had to jump in and really start from backwards as in start from the user experience and back towards a blockchain technology. And we felt like we're the right people to be able to tackle that. We jumped on it, founded Magic Labs, pursued our vision of making blockchain accessible. 对我们来说，即使市场完全陷入低迷，我们仍看到了解决一个真正根本性问题的机会，那就是糟糕的用户体验。肖恩和我本人一点也没有气馁。这是我们坚信需要解决的问题。同时，我在苹果公司学到用户体验实际上就是一切，这个领域必须有人介入，真正从反向思维出发，即从用户体验出发，再回溯到区块链技术。我们觉得我们是能够应对这个挑战的合适人选。我们抓住了机会，创立了 Magic Labs，并追求我们让区块链触手可及的愿景。

濒临绝境与坚持不懈

Co-founder: There are multiple times that I doubted and Sean doubted as well if we were taking the right path. There was one time when we had only one month of runway. We did doubt if we were taking the right path because if we were, then we probably wouldn't have ended up with only one month of runway. We're pretty much close to running out of money and closing down our startup. So that's the time I doubted. 有好几次，我和肖恩都怀疑我们是否走对了路。有一次，我们只剩下一个月的运营资金。我们确实怀疑是否走对了路，因为如果走对了，我们可能就不会只剩下一个月的运营资金了。我们几乎就要资金耗尽，关闭我们的初创公司了。所以那时我产生了怀疑。

At the time, there were actually not many people left in the space. So no one told us to quit. As I said, people had written crypto off. A lot of pulled out. There are not many builders left in the space. It was more about just growing with the community of builders that were left over, and we're all true believers of crypto. 当时，这个领域实际上没剩下多少人了。所以没有人叫我们放弃。正如我所说，人们已经把加密货币判了死刑。很多人都退出了。这个领域里没剩下多少建设者了。更多的是与剩下的建设者社区一起成长，我们都是加密货币的真正信徒。

For myself and Sean, we just felt this great responsibility of needing to deliver the solutions so that at least even if it's an experiment, it can be tried out on the blockchain and show to other developers, but also show the world that there is this seamless onboarding solution that can be tried out. And luckily, it worked out. But even if that hadn't worked out, I don't think Sean and myself would have quit because we just loved working on everything related to crypto and we fundamentally believed in the technology. 我和肖恩都感到有责任提供解决方案，这样即使只是一个实验，它也能在区块链上进行尝试，并展示给其他开发者，同时也向世界展示存在这种可以尝试的无缝入门解决方案。幸运的是，它成功了。但即使没有成功，我认为肖恩和我本人也不会放弃，因为我们就是喜欢从事与加密货币相关的一切工作，而且我们从根本上相信这项技术。

To keep me not distracted from that thought, I continued to talk to our customers and partners, and I knew that they really enjoyed using our product and they enjoyed being our customer. So that really helped me not be too distracted by the runway problem. At the same time, we felt like it was very important to be transparent with our team. At that time, we had a team size of probably 8 to 10. They're all working very hard, super motivated, and really loved working together with them. 为了不被那个想法分心，我继续与我们的客户和合作伙伴交流，我知道他们非常喜欢使用我们的产品，也喜欢成为我们的客户。所以这真的帮助我没有被运营资金问题过度困扰。同时，我们觉得对团队保持透明非常重要。当时，我们团队大概有 8 到 10 人。他们都非常努力，充满动力，我真的很喜欢和他们一起工作。

And we let them know that there could be a chance that we may not be able to process payroll for the next month or two. But it's our focus to ensure that we extend our runway. 我们让他们知道，接下来的一个或两个月，我们可能无法支付工资。但我们的重点是确保延长我们的运营资金。

逆境中的坚持与成长

Sean: I think for me, I believe in it so much. If Ethereum died, then my company dies too. So, I just built as hard as I could. It keeps going and keeps raising money. Fortunately, we were able to close with close to a month of runway left. I had to make sure to take a loan. So, the money hit the bank without running out. 我想对我来说，我对此深信不疑。如果以太坊消亡，那么我的公司也会消亡。所以，我只是尽我所能地去构建。它不断前进，不断筹集资金。幸运的是，我们在只剩不到一个月的运营资金时成功完成了融资。我不得不确保贷款。所以，钱在用完之前就到账了。

But at the same time, I was still hiring. I was still trying to find a new office space. Back then, we were in person in SF. I think for me, it's just keep pushing until the last minute, right? Kind of thing. And because I did hear the Docker story too. It's like they were very close to running out and then the founder created Docker as an open-source alternative and then launched at PyCon (PyCon: 年度 Python 编程语言大会). It was a huge success. So really just turned the company around. 但与此同时，我仍在招聘。我仍在寻找新的办公空间。那时，我们在旧金山是线下办公的。我想对我来说，就是坚持到最后一刻，对吧？就是那种感觉。因为我也听过 Docker 的故事。他们当时也快撑不下去了，然后创始人创建了 Docker 作为开源替代方案，并在 PyCon 大会上发布。那是一个巨大的成功。所以真的扭转了公司的局面。

So I kind of believe in those very special moments. And for me, I kept going both I believe in the space but also just from what I've seen, heard that I should just keep going. At the time because the space was really small. There wasn't a lot of competitors who had as much adoption as we did. A lot of our barrier was talking to VCs (Venture Capitalists: 风险投资人，为具有高增长潜力的初创公司提供资金的投资者) who are not really bought into the Web3 vision like most investors at the time. It just couldn't work. 所以我有点相信那些非常特殊的时刻。对我来说，我之所以坚持下去，一方面是因为我相信这个领域，另一方面也是因为我所见所闻告诉我应该继续下去。当时这个领域很小。没有很多竞争对手能像我们一样拥有如此高的采用率。我们面临的很多障碍是与那些不真正认同 Web3 愿景的风险投资人交谈，就像当时大多数投资者一样。这根本行不通。

No matter how many developers or dApps that we onboarded, it wouldn't convince them. But there fortunately still a lot of investors who kind of share that vision and excitement for the space who really saw the value in us. When you resonate from a fundamental level in terms of vision and belief and they like the team, they like the technology and you're also a leader in the category, then naturally an investment will work out. 无论我们带来了多少开发者或 dApp，都无法说服他们。但幸运的是，仍然有很多投资者与我们分享着对这个领域的愿景和热情，他们真正看到了我们的价值。当你在愿景和信念的根本层面产生共鸣，并且他们喜欢你的团队，喜欢你的技术，同时你又是这个领域的领导者时，那么投资自然就会成功。

It was a really tough time for me where I had to really, really learn to fundraise. Yeah. Like that seed round later was so much different from the pre-seed round earlier on just in terms of difficulty, especially in a bear market, right? And actually we had so many competitors at the time after we started and after the bear market, there's only a couple left. 那对我来说是一段非常艰难的时期，我必须真正学会如何筹款。是的。后来的种子轮与早期的 pre-seed 轮在难度上大相径庭，尤其是在熊市中，对吧？实际上，我们开始后当时有很多竞争对手，但在熊市之后，只剩下少数几家了。

I think that was the reason. I didn't know that we were going to be working with enterprises at first, but I think it was really important to be very secure and follow compliance procedures. So we were actually the first embedded wallet who ever achieved the SOC 2 Type 2 compliance (SOC 2 Type 2 合规: 一种针对服务组织安全、可用性、处理完整性、保密性和隐私控制的审计标准) very, very early on even though we weren't really working with enterprises at the time. 我想这就是原因。我一开始并不知道我们会与企业合作，但我认为确保高度安全并遵循合规程序非常重要。所以我们实际上是第一个在非常早期就实现了 SOC 2 Type 2 合规的嵌入式钱包，尽管当时我们还没有真正与企业合作。

And that standard actually paved the way to us starting to talk to enterprises because when we mentioned that we have it as a startup, they're impressed, right? That we're able to achieve that and hold that standard even till today we are the most compliant embed wallet solution with both SOC 2 Type 2 and ISO (International Organization for Standardization: 国际标准化组织，制定全球通用标准的非政府组织) standard which is a payment compliance standard. 而这个标准实际上为我们开始与企业对话铺平了道路，因为当我们作为一家初创公司提及我们拥有这项合规时，他们会印象深刻，对吧？我们能够达到并保持这个标准，即使直到今天，我们仍然是合规性最高的嵌入式钱包解决方案，同时拥有 SOC 2 Type 2 和 ISO（一种支付合规标准）标准。

So I would say that's the baseline. That's a hard requirement to be able to work with enterprises. But also over the years, we were able to develop a lot of use cases, really well-known success stories like Poly Market, Helium, Immutable, able to get Macy's, Mattel and eventually led up to Naver, but also getting reinvestment from PayPal Ventures that at the time with the PayPal Ventures round, we were able to raise over $80 million in funding throughout this whole period. 所以我想说，那是基础。这是与企业合作的硬性要求。但多年来，我们也开发了许多用例，许多知名成功案例，如 Poly Market、Helium、Immutable，并成功争取到了 Macy's、Mattel，最终还与 Naver 合作，同时获得了 PayPal Ventures 的再投资，当时通过 PayPal Ventures 这一轮，我们在整个时期内筹集了超过 8000 万美元的资金。

And at the time we were working with over 30 million wallets and now we're over 50 million, over 100,000 developers now over 200,000. Yeah. That was a great moment for us to capture the market opportunity at the time. Yeah. And definitely that gave us a lot of resource for us to capture the market there. 当时我们管理着超过 3000 万个钱包，现在已经超过 5000 万个；开发者数量也从超过 10 万增长到现在的超过 20 万。是的。那是我们抓住当时市场机遇的一个重要时刻。是的。这无疑为我们提供了大量资源来抢占市场。

走向 Web3 大规模普及：无形科技与用户体验

Co-founder: I spend probably the most amount of time with Sean, having known him for a long time during our days at Docker. You know, sat down together and he kind of walked me through the broader vision of what he was building. It immediately struck a chord with me in that consumers began to embrace everything that is Web3, real solutions, real financial services tools that can make all of our financial lives much easier. 我可能和肖恩在一起的时间最多，在 Docker 工作期间我们就认识了很久。我们坐下来，他向我介绍了他在构建的更广阔的愿景。这立刻引起了我的共鸣，因为消费者开始接受 Web3 的一切，真正的解决方案，真正的金融服务工具，这些都能让我们的金融生活变得更加轻松。

His vision really captured what I think was the ultimate identity problem. And I think Magic's vision at the time was to allow people to complete that journey or that migration without having to ask the users change their behaviors or adopt new behaviors. They don't have to go to MetaMask (MetaMask: 一个浏览器扩展，作为以太坊钱包和 Web3 应用程序的接口), sign up for an account, memorize the 20 keyphrases, promptly forget them 2 minutes later. All you have to do is use your original login and what they do is they spin up a crypto wallet for you on the back end that allows you to connect naturally, natively to all the Web3 services. 他的愿景真正抓住了我认为是终极身份问题的东西。我认为 Magic 当时的愿景是允许人们完成这一旅程或迁移，而无需用户改变他们的行为或采用新的行为。他们不必去 MetaMask，注册一个账户，记住 20 个助记词，然后在 2 分钟后迅速忘记它们。你所要做的就是使用你原来的登录方式，而他们所做的就是在后端为你启动一个加密钱包，让你能够自然地、原生连接到所有的 Web3 服务。

We talk about what's the easiest adoption or way of adoption. It's when you don't have to do it anything differently, and that's why I think early on they were able to grow the number of users or number of identity as they manage to the millions sort of scale that they were able to achieve at the time. And that I think spoke volumes about how important that UX (User Experience: 用户体验，指用户在使用产品或服务时的整体感受和满意度) design is for that mass adoption of Web3. 我们讨论什么是最简单的采纳方式。那就是当你不需要做任何不同的事情时，我认为这就是为什么他们早期能够将管理的用户或身份数量增长到数百万的规模。我认为这充分说明了用户体验设计对于 Web3 大规模采用的重要性。

投资者的考量：市场、技术与创始人信念

Co-founder: Having conviction is important, and the conviction comes from a few places, right? One, do you believe that the market is large enough? They're attacking a big enough problem. And of course, having the numbers that Magic had early on definitely gave us confidence that this is tapping into a large enough problem. Enough people need access to this. 拥有信念很重要，信念来源于几个方面，对吧？第一，你是否相信市场足够大？他们是否在解决一个足够大的问题？当然，Magic 早期拥有的数据无疑给了我们信心，表明他们正在触及一个足够大的问题。足够多的人需要访问这项服务。

And two, as you alluded to earlier, is there a technical differentiation or a product differentiation from the competitors? And I think the growth that it demonstrated, the early customer buy-ins that they were able to get, showed us that there is a good amount of technical differentiation. Like I mentioned, having your own private key management and getting into some of the more specific features, which I won't bore you with, is important, right? The nitty-gritty sometimes do win deals, win customers. 第二，正如你之前提到的，是否存在与竞争对手的技术差异化或产品差异化？我认为它所展示的增长，以及早期客户的认可，都表明它具有良好的技术差异化。就像我提到的，拥有自己的私钥管理，并深入研究一些更具体的功能（我不会赘述），这很重要，对吧？细节有时确实能赢得交易，赢得客户。

Just like your UX design really matters, right? The little things, one extra step in terms of authentication will probably result in incremental but a significant amount of drop off in conversion rates. So, I think paying attention to all of those little details, whether it's the feature design, UX design, all really matter a whole lot. 就像你的用户体验设计真的很重要，对吧？那些小细节，认证方面多一个步骤，可能会导致转化率逐渐但显著的下降。所以，我认为关注所有这些小细节，无论是功能设计、用户体验设计，都非常非常重要。

Ultimately, it also comes down to the founder or the founders themselves. One, do you really believe they're serious about building what they're building? Like I mentioned earlier, when the market turns, tourists tend to leave, right? And the true believers, the true builders will stay because they're committed to doing this. That sort of grit, that sort of personal conviction that they demonstrated was also a critical part in terms of getting me conviction ultimately. 最终，这也取决于创始人本身。第一，你是否真的相信他们对待自己正在构建的东西是认真的？就像我之前提到的，当市场转向时，那些“游客”往往会离开，对吧？而真正的信徒、真正的建设者会留下来，因为他们致力于做这件事。他们所展现出的那种毅力、那种个人信念，也是最终让我产生信念的关键部分。

That's probably the three biggest things, right? You look at overall size of the opportunity, whether they have the right to play or the right to win, but ultimately are they the right people, right? You can bet on the right horse, but is it the right jockey? So, I think those three things kind of really converged on Magic that made me invest in them. 这大概是三个最重要的因素，对吧？你看机会的整体规模，他们是否有资格参与或赢得胜利，但最终他们是不是合适的人选，对吧？你可以押对马，但骑师对不对呢？所以，我认为这三点在 Magic 身上得到了很好的体现，促使我投资了他们。

技术与用户体验的平衡：产品的灵魂

Co-founder: The most important principle when it comes to making decisions between tech and UX is finding that right balance between user experience and technology. I think it really comes down to customer obsession. And this is one thing I learned at Apple, right? Every design, every step of building and shipping, there was just so much attention to detail that was put into it. But more importantly, people just really cared about the user experience and their customers. 在技术和用户体验之间做出决策时，最重要的原则是找到用户体验和技术之间的正确平衡。我认为这最终归结为对客户的痴迷。这是我在苹果学到的一点，对吧？每一个设计，构建和发布过程中的每一步，都投入了大量的细节关注。但更重要的是，人们真的非常关心用户体验和他们的客户。

It's more like when they're feeling the pain, you're feeling more pain yourself. You know, how do you react to that? You go about solving, right? When you build a product, it's not just to solve a problem. Of course, it's got to solve a problem, but it's almost like storytelling. It's a message. That is kind of like the soul of the product. 这更像是当他们感到痛苦时，你自己会感到更痛苦。你知道，你如何回应？你去解决它，对吧？当你开发一个产品时，它不仅仅是为了解决一个问题。当然，它必须解决一个问题，但它几乎像是在讲故事。它是一个信息。这有点像是产品的灵魂。

When I think about storytelling and how a founder can get great at storytelling, kind of why I really gravitate to naming the company Magic, too. It's like a magic show, right? It's kind of like a performance. If you just showed everybody exactly how the magic works, then it won't be magical. 当我思考故事讲述以及创始人如何擅长故事讲述时，这有点像我为什么如此倾向于将公司命名为 Magic。它就像一场魔术表演，对吧？它有点像一场表演。如果你只是向所有人展示魔术是如何运作的，那么它就不会是魔术了。

Great storytelling is really about that wow factor. If you're talking about from a product standpoint, you want to identify what the wow factor is and show that to your users as quickly as possible and make that a goal. 好的故事讲述真正关乎那种“哇”的因素。如果你从产品的角度来看，你想要找出“哇”的因素是什么，并尽快将其展示给你的用户，并将其设定为一个目标。

技术的无形化：AI 代理与最佳 UI

Co-founder: Back to the philosophy around technology being invisible. I do envision a future where people can truly focus on what they really want to do. They're not just dealing with the manual things. It would just be fully integrated in my day-to-day life in a way that's really, really seamless. Maybe there's going to be new hardware that you can kind of talk to, right? Payment, identity, authentication, those things should be ambient. They should happen in the background without us having to intervene. 回到技术无形化的理念。我确实设想了一个未来，人们可以真正专注于他们想做的事情。他们不再仅仅处理手动事务。它将以一种非常非常无缝的方式完全融入我的日常生活。也许会有新的硬件可以让你与之对话，对吧？支付、身份、认证，这些都应该是环境化的。它们应该在后台发生，而无需我们干预。

Fully autonomous agents should be able to do things without us having to constantly look over their shoulder. So yes, the best UI is an abstraction of the UI that doesn't need to prompt you for login, that doesn't need to prompt you for approvals. It should just happen automatically. 完全自主的代理应该能够在我们无需不断监督的情况下完成任务。所以，是的，最好的用户界面是用户界面的抽象，它不需要提示你登录，不需要提示你批准。它应该自动发生。

In some ways, you see, you know, we're in San Francisco, right? We see Waymos running around. We see Tesla robo taxis being tested. I don't know if anyone had experience with riding in one lately. I remember my first Waymo trip a while back. You know, the initial 2 minutes I was a little nervous. Here I am sitting in this car with an empty driver's seat taking me through the busy streets of San Francisco, which is pretty challenging for me as a driver. 在某些方面，你看，我们身在旧金山，对吧？我们看到 Waymo 在街上跑。我们看到特斯拉的自动驾驶出租车正在测试。我不知道最近有没有人乘坐过。我记得我很久以前第一次乘坐 Waymo。你知道，最初的两分钟我有点紧张。我坐在车里，驾驶座是空的，车带着我穿过旧金山繁忙的街道，这对我一个司机来说都相当有挑战性。

Now there's this thing that's taking me around. But quickly I began to really just look out the window, looking at a street and got back on my phone. I completely forgot I was being driven around by AI. And that's sort of the becoming ambient or abstraction moment that happened for me when it comes to self-driving. 现在有这么个东西载着我到处跑。但我很快就开始看窗外，看着街道，然后又玩起了手机。我完全忘记了我是由 AI 驾驶的。这就是对我来说，在自动驾驶方面，技术变得环境化或抽象化的时刻。

The best technology, I will put it, the best UI is no UI, is an abstraction. It's because you've designed the experience, you've designed the tech to be so good, so secure, so seamless that users forgot that it exists. So I think yes, absolutely that philosophy will continue to guide development not just within Web3 but also within AI going forward. 最好的技术，我愿称之为，最好的用户界面就是没有用户界面，它是一种抽象。这是因为你设计的体验，你设计的技术是如此之好，如此安全，如此无缝，以至于用户忘记了它的存在。所以我认为，是的，这种理念将继续指导未来的发展，不仅在 Web3 领域，也在 AI 领域。

AI 代理时代与 Newton 协议的信任层

Co-founder: We're now living through a great emergency. AI agents are becoming better. So that's how Magic will play a key role in this ecosystem. Thank you. 我们现在正经历一场巨大的变革。AI 代理正变得越来越好。这就是 Magic 将在这个生态系统中发挥关键作用的方式。谢谢。

Co-founder: Our ultimate goal for Magic is making technology feel invisible. Sean and my vision still hasn't changed to this day, and we continue to believe in our vision being realized. One thing that I would say has expanded is we're now not just thinking about humans, we're also thinking about AI agents. In five years from now, what we see is it'll be your AI agents or multiple AI agents pretty much managing your money, managing your contracts, booking travels, and doing all the daily activities that you do today, being fully automated through AI agents. Magic 的最终目标是让技术感觉隐形。肖恩和我的愿景至今未变，我们仍然相信我们的愿景会实现。我想说的一点是，我们的思考范围扩大了，现在我们不仅考虑人类，还在考虑 AI 代理。从现在起五年内，我们看到的是，你的 AI 代理或多个 AI 代理将几乎管理你的资金、管理你的合同、预订旅行，并完成你今天所做的所有日常活动，通过 AI 代理实现完全自动化。

But Newton will ensure that they operate within the guardrails that you have set. You're able to trust that AI agent is making the right decisions and right actions even while you're asleep. Magic already solved onboarding with crypto, and with AI, we see crypto being the main rails for the agentic AI, and that's where Newton comes in. 但牛顿协议将确保它们在你设定的护栏内运行。你能够相信 AI 代理即使在你睡着的时候也能做出正确的决策和行动。Magic 已经解决了加密货币的入门问题，而在 AI 领域，我们认为加密货币将成为代理式 AI 的主要轨道，这就是牛顿协议的用武之地。

So Newton is a trust layer that acts as a policy engine defining and enforcing programmable rules such that users and AI agents can safely and autonomously interact with blockchains. So think of Newton as system on your phone. So you get to control apps that can access your location and use your camera and send notifications etc. So with Newton, you're able to set these permissions. Just trust that AI will be able to safely interact with blockchains on behalf of you. 所以牛顿协议是一个信任层，它作为策略引擎，定义并执行可编程规则，从而让用户和 AI 代理能够安全且自主地与区块链互动。你可以把牛顿协议想象成你手机上的系统。你可以控制哪些应用可以访问你的位置、使用你的摄像头、发送通知等等。所以有了牛顿协议，你就可以设置这些权限。只需相信 AI 能够代表你安全地与区块链互动。

最大的学习：非线性进展与灵活策略

Co-founder: I would say my biggest learning was that progress is not linear. I always like to make this battlefield analogy. You're fighting a campaign, right? And you don't really know too much about the landscape. There's a lot of fog of war. You know, in Starcraft, you don't really see the map until you kind of explore it. All you see is this hill that you can get on top of. So maybe you get on top of the hill, you can see more. 我想说我最大的收获是，进步不是线性的。我总是喜欢用战场类比。你正在打一场战役，对吧？你对地形了解不多。有很多战争迷雾。你知道，在星际争霸中，你直到探索之后才能真正看到地图。你所能看到的只有这座你可以爬上去的小山。所以也许你爬到山顶，就能看到更多。

Like you can remove some fog of war and see more. It's like, "Oh, maybe this is not the right hill. I need to go there." And then you go there and then it's a little bit higher and you can see more visibility into this landscape. But if you don't take any actions to explore this fog of war, then maybe you get crushed, right? Like you don't really know what's going on. So inaction is actually not an option. 就像你可以驱散一些战争迷雾，看到更多。你会想，“哦，也许这不是正确的山丘。我需要去那里。”然后你去了那里，那里更高一点，你可以更清楚地看到这片地形。但如果你不采取任何行动去探索这片战争迷雾，那么你可能会被碾碎，对吧？就像你根本不知道发生了什么。所以不行动实际上不是一个选择。

So you have to constantly keep going, keep exploring, keep learning, keep iterating, keep pivoting. Sometimes it feels like 180. Sometimes it just feels it's a very chaotic and unpredictable process. Where you end up is never where you start. And most of the greatest companies have gone through a lot of these very drastic pivots, right? So I think that would be the biggest advice. 所以你必须不断前进，不断探索，不断学习，不断迭代，不断调整方向。有时感觉像是 180 度大转弯。有时感觉它就是一个非常混乱和不可预测的过程。你最终到达的地方从来不是你开始的地方。而大多数最伟大的公司都经历过许多这种非常剧烈的方向调整，对吧？所以我想那会是最大的建议。

Kind of think of it from that perspective. Commit to your mission, right? Commit to what you believe in your principles, but be extremely flexible on your strategy and approach. I think that should be the right balance. 从那个角度思考。致力于你的使命，对吧？致力于你所信仰的原则，但在策略和方法上要极其灵活。我认为这应该是正确的平衡。

创业的真谛：痴迷与激情

Co-founder: If I could go back, I would tell myself to really stress test how deeply I care about the problem that I'm solving and how badly I want to own my own destiny. Because the truth is when it comes to startups, there will be a lot of pain. When I had joined, I was just excited about building cool stuff and I did not know that I was going to go through so much pain. 如果我能回到过去，我会告诉自己要真正地考验一下我到底有多在乎我正在解决的问题，以及我有多渴望掌握自己的命运。因为事实是，谈到创业公司，会有很多痛苦。当我刚加入时，我只是对创造酷炫的东西感到兴奋，我并不知道我会经历那么多痛苦。

But what really kept me here and I know that I'll stick it through until the end is how much I care about the vision and the problem that we're looking to solve. The other part that I would tell myself is you got to be really obsessed with the problem and you got to be obsessed with building what matters. If you're not obsessed, then it'll be really hard to make it through. 但真正让我坚持到现在，并且我知道我会坚持到底的原因，是我有多么关心我们的愿景以及我们正在努力解决的问题。我想告诉自己的另一件事是，你必须真正痴迷于问题，你必须痴迷于构建有价值的东西。如果你不痴迷，那么很难坚持下去。

It's like a roller coaster where there will be highs when you feel amazing, but there will be a lot more lows where it'll feel brutal. So, if you have other goals, you're trying to make money doing a startup, I would advise not to do that. It really has to be something that you're so passionate about that you would wake up every day thinking about it. It's not just a job. It has to become your life. 这就像过山车，会有让你感觉美妙的高峰，但会有更多让你感觉残酷的低谷。所以，如果你有其他目标，想通过创业赚钱，我建议你不要这样做。它真的必须是你如此充满激情的事情，以至于你每天醒来都会思考它。它不仅仅是一份工作。它必须成为你的生活。

So, it is a big commitment. It's not for me to scare people, but it's also for me to just let people know that it's going to be a long journey, but I can guarantee that it's worth it. 所以，这是一项巨大的承诺。我不是为了吓唬人，而是为了让人们知道这将是一段漫长的旅程，但我可以保证它是值得的。

个人动力的演变与新挑战

Sean: Yeah, the truth is a person's personal motivation should evolve over the course of years. Yes, I think my excitement about the future of Web3, steady drum beat, right? That pushes me forward. But just in terms of sometimes, you know, when things get difficult, there's all these personal motivations that come in play, right? 是的，事实是，一个人的个人动力应该随着时间的推移而演变。是的，我想我对 Web3 未来的兴奋，就像稳定的鼓点，对吧？它推动我前进。但有时，你知道，当事情变得困难时，所有这些个人动机就会发挥作用，对吧？

When I first started, I tried to remind myself why I got in. I wanted to develop these skill sets, make more impact. I want to grow to be a leader. I want to learn how to work with other people better. So in the beginning that motivates me, and then later on we were pioneers for embedded wallet. I want to take it as a new challenge to see if I can create a second album with Newton protocol. 当我刚开始时，我试图提醒自己为什么会进入这个行业。我想发展这些技能，产生更大的影响。我想成长为一名领导者。我想学习如何更好地与他人合作。所以一开始是这些激励着我，后来我们成为了嵌入式钱包的先驱。我想把它作为一个新的挑战，看看我是否能用牛顿协议创造出第二张专辑。

So I took that as a personal challenge as well, and we were able to deliver on that too. And to me that's very fulfilling personally. And I think as we continue to grow and evolve, we're going to find other motivations as well. But yeah, those are just a few examples and there's just so much more along the way. 所以我把那也当作一个个人挑战，我们也成功地做到了。对我来说，这在个人层面上非常有成就感。我认为随着我们继续成长和发展，我们也会发现其他的动力。但是的，这些只是几个例子，一路走来还有更多。