主持人: Dr. Carp, it is a pleasure to finally have the OG American Dynamism founder on stage with us at the 4th annual summit. Um I think gosh if we had...

Alex Karp: (laughter)

主持人: Yes. Um I think if we had you guys don't get that there's a gang signs. (laughter)

Alex Karp: No, I think we all got the the reference. Um...

主持人: Maddiey's in the audience. (laughter) He doesn't get out much. He's like, "Huh? What is that? This is going to be a great conversation. So, I think uh if we had this conversation 72 hours ago, it would have been very different. Um but of course there's been a lot of news and so I want to get straight to to the news and what's happening in the world. Um because Palanteer is certainly um part of that story. So over the weekend uh the US and Israel bombed Iran and Operation Epic Fury. Ayatollah how many is dead. The Middle East is now at war. What do you think the situation means for the future of the West? Something you talk a lot about and the future of America.

Alex Karp: Well, first of all, I'm delighted to be on stage with you and um you know, for many of you in this audience, by the way, I'm I've been talking so much I'm kind of losing my voice, but I didn't I I would have probably canceled on anyone but you. But...

主持人: Oh, that that means a lot. We're glad you're here. (laughter)

Alex Karp: I love to cancel, by the way, for those of you cuz like it's my favorite thing cuz I I actually am an introvert. Any excuse to cancel as as Palunteerians know. It's uh Yeah. Um but yeah, you've been such a force um in public and behind the scenes for you know I think helping people in the broadly speaking defense tech or let America wins or things that are good uh broadly defined. Um, and then we also align on something we could talk about later on, like the importance of not putting our youth in straight jackets because they're divergent neurologically, which is a passion of of mine and should be a passion of everyone's since...

Alex Karp: you could define our wonderful and great country as a country where everyone who was divergent in ideology, thought, religion or quite frankly like uh uh neurologically came to this country to have a better place where they could express their freedom and had the right to a express what they thought which and there's a deep link between expressing what you think publicly and privately first and fourth amendment and being able to think it and if that doesn't work being able to defend it with the second amendment uh and uh the and last not least our our founders founders uh uh did not structure these rights the way they are in say where I lived for a lot of my life in Germany as rights granted to us by other bureaucrats. We they're given to us. They're inaliable from a higher being.

Alex Karp: Uh and uh I would just say before I get into uh how the world's changed, we have American uh war fighters on the battlefield. Uh s willing to sacrifice their lives. Uh some of whom have sacrificed their lives. They have families and kids. Kids and families don't know if their loved ones are coming home. And uh you know we uh I know in this room but we should publicly privately support them and people who are not aware or somehow so effing spoiled that they don't realize what these people do for us we should publicly humiliate them. Uh and everyone has a role in that. uh um and especially those of us who are riding a crest of of of intergenerational cultural intellectual courage advantage which it which it is to be an American nowadays should not obviously should not forget uh the war fighter who are disproportionately uh from uh the middle of our our country and disproportionately have gotten screwed.

Alex Karp: Uh and uh you know I'm proud uh very proud that at Palunteer uh you know we we get arrows and people I mean half the people attacking us it'd be good if they spent two minutes on Wikipedia at least learning the talking points they're regurgitating but uh but um you know there's some legitimate criticisms uh of any company but at the end of the day the fact is the most important thing Palanteer is doing than I other people in this room are doing and people like you and other people adjacent or ancillary to building uh uh more lethal and deadly weapons is to make sure that American war fighters uh are much more likely to come home and quite frankly the people who are trying to harm them uh know that they won't be coming home and that's the way you stop people from attacking us in my opinion and then on the the kind of um the leading up to what's going on.

Alex Karp: But I think the there are probably people in this room who are wildly supportive uh and there are people who aren't. It is hard to deny that America is exerting a deterrent capability that was eviscerated. you you can like or not like that's different than ignoring we now have a deterrent capability that no other country appears to have and that is for for lots of reasons and obviously uh the war fighter people organized the war fighter the generals the leadership the president but one advantage that often gets overlooked in it for reasons that make no sense is war fighting is technology ology, you know, I I spent half my life in in in Germany for familiar reasons and then I wrote my PhD there. It it the and then the rise of America after World War II, the reason America was able to win World War II were technological advantages. And if you look what happened in, you know, Operation Midnight Hammer, what happened in Venezuela, what's so far happening uh uh in in in Iran, you see one society just totally dominating. That's our society.

Alex Karp: Now, you could get into I I would I I'm always in fights with my intellectual friends about they're they're like, "But wouldn't it be better to have a rule a a law-based system where everyone is equal?" Yeah, sure. in theory, but in this world, it's us or China or Russia.

主持人: Yeah.

Alex Karp: And I don't know how you guys feel about those decisions, but I think we're doing I literally believe we're doing the work of higher a higher purpose by making sure and not just for America, but for the whole world that we are the power that actually has the decisive vote. And there is only one way to do that and that is with military superiority. And when I say military superiority, I don't mean that we're arguing on a PowerPoint. It means but America. So now you get to what is technology done? Now again, I think whenever people like me are talking about this, it you can't say enough that it's the war fighter and their courage and I'm not doing that. I'm sitting here um and you know and I'm not and we have Palunteerians all over on like I'm talking to them constantly. So they're doing they're putting themselves in harm's way and you know um uh I'm I am kind of but not directly. It's mostly all the people who yell at me and I guess maybe there are some people want to shoot at me but um it the the the if you look at the rise of like in the in the lifetime of Palunteer there's been the rise of software which essentially me meant your you know software company that is supplying a steak dinner that's obviously parasitic is not cutting it that kind of those those companies are being eviscerated you the rise of defense tech and now you have a hybrid software, hardware, AI where you really need all three.

Alex Karp: Um, interestingly from an investment perspective, um, you know, I would say the last company standing before we all have to salute the overlord of the LLM will be Palanteer. But it's mainly (laughter)

主持人: we're going to get into that, I promise.

Alex Karp: mainly because um you there it's it's the specificity of and the security and the orchestration but none of that has to make any sense to anyone in this room. I'll tell you what it makes a lot of sense to our adversaries right now. How is America doing this? Now again it's specialized ways. It's 25 30 years of experience in fighting its meritocracy. The department of war is the most meritocratic environment. It integrated in Korea before our society did. Uh it's it it is the most popular institution and most revered institution and probably the only institution in America that is actually revered by the American people across every demographic. And it's revered by the American people across every demographic precisely because it's been meritocratic. If if you were a black American, uh you got your break in America by going to the military. if you wanted to be treated fairly uh and you were from a group that you felt that every demographic has somebody who is in the military whose life was changed and it did something noble and wonderful for America. They also have the experience of coming home in America not sticking up for them. We should change that.

Alex Karp: Now you get to Silicon Valley. Uh my one message for and again I I don't I'm without getting in specific people or cuz I'm like if Silicon Valley believes we are going to take away everyone's white collar job meaning primarily democratic shaped uh people whom I grew up with highly educated people who went to elite schools or went to schools that are almost elite who vote for one party and you're going screwed the military. If you don't think that's going to lead to nationalization of our technology, you're [ __ ] And you might be particularly [ __ ] because you have a 160 IQ, but it you this is where that path is going.

主持人: Like you cannot have technologies that simultaneously take away everyone's job and then be perceived. Again, there's a lot of subtlety here behind behind the curtain. I've been heavily involved in that subtlety. what can be where it can be deployed what can be deployed there's a difference between US military and surveillance and despite what everyone thinks Palanteer is the anti-surveillance company I know your person online thinks that's not true but every technical expert does so I end up in every conversation that I don't want to be in but the the danger for our industry is that America you get a you get a famous horseshoe effect where there's only one thing people agree on and that's that this is not paying the bills and people and our industry should be nationalized and and so the the the societal benefit that is going on in Iran besides the fact that I think I suspect the Iranian people feel like finally someone's on my side and it wasn't the Berkeley faculty that was supposed to like me. Uh [laughter] it it's uh um a big lesson for you. Yeah. So um and but then as America we and a people who are prominent in the tech industry, you know, we have to find a way to make sure that we're not just popular in PaloAlto.

主持人: Yeah. I I want to get back to something you just said, which is that, you know, that it's it's either us winning or China winning or Russia winning or another country that it's a zero- sum game. And it feels like the people in this room in Washington really understand that AI is zero sum, but that Silicon Valley doesn't. Silicon Valley doesn't like to think in terms of zero sum. They like to think that everything is a positive sum game. So, how would you explain to the people in Silicon Valley who are again building the LLMs, you know, building um what what they would say is a brand new net new technology that hasn't existed before and therefore it needs to be treated differently. What would you say to them about this?

Alex Karp: Well, I mean, there's so first of all, it's it's um by the way, I just want to push back slightly. They do think it's zero sum. They think it's zero sum versus each other.

Alex Karp: So like they absolutely are fighting. There will be like you know it's my own rhetoric if I happen to think it's true. It's going to be chips ontology and I suspect in the end one one and a half provider. So they pretend they don't think it's zero sum but then ask them how they feel about their competitor. So it's very very I mean these people are fighting very very hard for the dominant position. So like what they don't understand is in the world it's zero sum. But I I actually think the primary issue in the valley is it's going to be zero sum visav when America decides that look okay I have I I interact with a lot of political figures I have a lot of respect I think in some are when politicians figure out this is the one winning issue it is going to be zero sum it's going to be your money and your company being zero sum nationalized.

Alex Karp: So that's the part they don't understand fe helping people understand that, you know, either we set the rules or deacto like I'm I'm much more I'm much more on America should be strong so that we don't have to worry about the enemies than our enemies are evil kind of thing. So I'm not super neocon. It seems to be very hard in this culture as someone who's lived abroad a lot of my life. It's very hard in this culture to explain to people that we're in a competitive environment because things here are so good. They don't understand how different it will be and how much we will change and how much the pressure will be on America, not just legally, but militarily and culturally if we fall behind.

Alex Karp: And I I I one of the things that again it's so I I personally think the better way to get people to change is to...

主持人: okay it it Go bring people like that to Iowa. Bring them to DC and explain to our American political leadership why you make hund00 million and why a soldier from Iowa can't explain to his wife he has the best technology and then go across the hall. So let's classically Republican shaped. Then go across the hall and talk to progressive Democrats about how everyone in their constituency is not going to have a job. and then leave and imagine what's going to happen to you.

Alex Karp: You know the funny thing about those of us who've spent most of our life abroad like in Germany which a phenomenal culture we have a much better sense of how fragile this exper experiment is America it could go wrong.

Alex Karp: and it will go wrong if if all wealth is going to a small number of people and those people do not appear to be on side now that perception might is obviously a caricature. It is a caricature in the sense this is new technology and you're not going to be able to use the same kind of framework and you're going to need people who appreciate how it's different and there are real questions about fourth amendment protections like our right to privacy. What is privacy in a world where you could imputee what someone's doing at home through technology? H how do you protect our right to have our own thoughts, our own ideas, our own practices at home, our own health records? that those are real issues when the technology can also help you to be healthier, live longer, uh have a higher economic status potentially, certainly if you're a vocational worker. But so those issues have to be unpacked. And where Silicon Valley is right is you you're going to need a forum to talk about that that doesn't pretend, you know, large language models is the same thing as machine learning is the same thing as software is the same thing as a bullet. They're they're not. Yeah.

Alex Karp: Um but um but but but but de facto I I very much believe u as a critique of the uh like economic elite especially in in the technical area there's there's like to use an econom a kind of overly economic uh a philosophical term they reify meaning they turn it into a thing our rights but those rights you know when I was in Germany I I was there and there were I spent a lot of time I did a PhD uh but I you know there were a lot of older Germans and I I would spend time with them in the countryside in the city of course they they didn't know anybody who was a Nazi in the countryside they're like we were all Nazis so I would ask them but one of the more fascinating conversations is why they became Democrats or not like left right but capital D and it was always because it worked and then the unwinding of it that we don't ask if it unwinds you know, our it will we will not be protected.

主持人: and it it's just the dialogue we have currently is not acknowledging what's going to happen politically, what is happening politically. The the wealth tax is a derivative of this because everyone knows the wealth tax isn't going to help the poor. It's just going to [ __ ] the rich and that's enough to get it done. M

Alex Karp: and if if that's happening, just imagine what's going to happen when it's like there's going to be 50 unlikable people with all the money.

主持人: Anybody here like that? And you guys are doing well.

主持人: No. No. I I I want to get back to to kind of the conversation about how um how we ensure that the Department of War continues to lead on AI because I think this has been top of mind for everyone in the room for the last 48 hours. um our adversaries are looking at you know contracting wars um that are playing out in press releases you know what is your view on how we can ensure that we win this AI race against the PRC if you if you're giving advice to all the founders and CEOs of of you know the the the...

Alex Karp: first thing part of what I'm doing and part of the reason I mean besides your charm and importance part of the reason I want to be here is uh I want my reputation in the valley every you always have reputations my reputation which the rep I'm not even saying the reputation is true. But in my case, like I'm viewed as the batshit crazy guy who is often telling you something you don't want to hear and you may not like but is probably right.

主持人: And that's true.

Alex Karp: So yeah, (laughter) and that's why I want you to send this first step. We have to they're not understanding the stakes and what I nothing's going to happen till people understand the stakes. This will affect you. Now then the question is like what Hollywood did is Hollywood got together the whole rating system was Hollywood realized if we don't do rating ratings Washington's going to and Washington is going to butcher it.

主持人: and let's even say Washington doesn't want to butcher it but like it it doesn't understand the metier.

Alex Karp: so the first step is everybody and I'm already on the phone with people saying okay great I understand your issue but you realize the wolves are at the gate and they already have tasted blood.

主持人: Yeah.

Alex Karp: Uh the second step is we have to find ways where we get together and say okay like if you just want to go through the issues yes there are you know using technologies in the context of eviscerating fourth amendment rights in America is a is something left and right in this country actually don't want. It's a caricature to believe that either side wants it. There are people on the honestly I'm in private rooms. There are people on the left who don't care about these issues who pretend to do it in p do in public but there are people and there are people on the right who pretend not to care who do care. Both parties have significant coalitions and the American people cares care and it's in our constitution. But then you have to get be very granular about what's going to happen on the battlefield because they're the the two issues Americans care about are their prosperity and their safety.

Alex Karp: So if the if if the two things that Silicon Valley has to figure out is is what are we going to how are we going to ethically talk about what's going to happen to our economy in my view you have you could create a lot of prosperity with trade shaped people. Uh, okay. But what is going to happen to the white collar workers? And what are we going to do? That that's one issue. And then we we're not going to agree, but we have to have something like a we're going to do these initiatives just like Hollywood did. And then you're going to have to have a discussion on the battlefield where you know the rebuttable presumption meaning it doesn't happen is that the we are going to do the maximal amount to make sure our war fighters come home safely. And if you are sitting in Silicon Valley making an argument that somehow would evviscerate that or conversely you're not able to understand what Silicon Valley is saying. Meaning there's going to have to be a medium without going into details on all these breakdowns cuz I was in the middle of it and I want to stay in the middle of it. There there are substantive issues and there are cultural issues.

主持人: If we could get rid of the cultural misunderstanding, we could get pretty close to agreements here. Yeah. But you you're dealing with worlds that never ever ever talk. Yes.

Alex Karp: And don't have an ability to talk to each other.

主持人: Yeah. Well, and you've been building a bridge between these cultures for 20 years. I mean, that's what's so interesting. I mean, that's in some ways why we have this conference is to bring together people who speak two different languages, very different value sets, and try to get them aligned. I I'd love your advice for these founders who maybe are new. You know, it's sort of like that meme, the first time meme uh with Cohen Brothers film, you know, where it's like a lot of these people are having their first conversations with the Department of War or they don't or they maybe they don't have any family in the military, maybe they've met never met a war fighter. What is your advice to some of these CEOs who are maybe new to these conversations that you've been having for for 20 years now?

Alex Karp: Well, the best thing you could do is go to Iowa or go to a base and have a like I don't think look put this way um maybe the first time It's probably not PG, but you know, I'm happily not married, not divorced, so don't follow how I live. But you don't have to. Maybe if you're going to meet somebody, you really want to oppress it. Maybe not. Maybe you have an advantage if it's your third girlfriend or boyfriend, not your first. Like, go have a conversation with somebody. Like if you're going to meet a general or somebody like that and you've never talked to somebody who's actually done something on the battlefield or someone who has family who's done something on the battlefield and you don't have any and because of that you don't have an ability to empathize with their perspective that's probably a huge mistake.

主持人: Yeah.

Alex Karp: And I that's probably going to backfire. Last secondly though you have to be honest aware about where your aptitude is. Mhm.

主持人: Mhm.

Alex Karp: Like you know um Silicon Valley tech builders broadly defined hardware, software, AI. I would say we build in the military context uh essentially uh software scaffolding much more like in a weird way more more like hardware software but it's in software uh managing LLMs. Um uh it it is the single biggest mistake people make in this area is because they're intelligent in one area, they assume they're intelligent in all areas. And a big failure mechanism in the valley is every valley person is forced to present as if they're the smartest in all areas at all times.

主持人: And that's like if you don't know who the mark is, you're the mark.

Alex Karp: Yeah. Like if you think you're the smartest. So I I'm dyslexic and I think one of the reasons I've done so well is I do think I'm one of the better people at certain things. At least I believe it and I know I'm not at everything. It's a very small it's like but a failure mode for the valley is I'm the smartest on every issue. I for example I need to be the person negotiating this contract. Yeah.

主持人: What if you have no aptitude for that? Mhm.

Alex Karp: Mhm.

Alex Karp: Just because you can do X does not mean you've imputed high aptitude at Y. In fact, it's very unlikely it's true.

主持人: Yeah.

Alex Karp: It's it's almost certain that you're just not smart enough to realize how bad you are.

主持人: That's probably one of the most important lessons for for company builders in the room. I actually I I want to um end the conversation on Palunteer is the OG American Dynamism company. Um I think a lot of our founders in this room are indebted. They've worked for you. They've um you know built their playbooks inside of Palunteer. They've built new companies that, you know, are are epic in their own right, but they started at Palanteer in many cases. And so I want to dive into you. You brought up the neurode divergent fellowship. It's one of my favorite things you've ever done. You've done a lot of great things, but I think it's it's one of the most extraordinary um stands that you've taken in the company, but you've always looked for people who are different and somehow cultivated them and brought together people who are Democrats, Republicans, on the right, on the left, people who are of all walks of life. How do you lead such a diverse group of people especially at scale like at the scale you are?

Alex Karp: Well, I mean it's always hard to know when you're re like I I I view myself as an artist. So, you're really, it's like, well, how do you create the art? And it's funny because I I mean, I look, I I like the freedom money gives me, and I I certainly don't want to like do some [ __ ] philanthropy to prove that I'm good when because I did something bad because I think what we do is very important. Um, but it's like at the end of the day, it's like an artistic thing. But, you know, I had it's always helpful. I had my parents are among the most talented people I've ever met and I feel they don't agree with me that you know like they should have they could like it's kind of weird I'm so famous put it that way from and uh um I uh um uh I I and I then there's the American thing where we are I really believe in the magical liberating, inalienable right for all of us to be individuals. And that's what I see as particularly moral and special in the world. I don't like these things that like I I've been famously anti-woke, but in the thing I find offensive about it is actually that it's people pretending to be different while all being the same. And so I don't like uh so I tend to gravitate towards people who are unique and yeah, I don't really care. their politics. I care about like their ability to think and do. Um there is an aptitude thing where can you recognize somebody who is truly unique in something you've not done yourself is just something you're born with. Um I I do think it's a form of neurode divergence like outlier IQ is a the certain way it's not that different than being autistic. like you just can't you're not going to you're not going to decomp a problem the way somebody who is all just normal smart will.

Alex Karp: Um and I find that very very charismatic. The trick to doing it is you have to it's this very hard thing where somebody who is the best I I believe the palunteerians while managed a palunteer and sometimes in many and most cases presumably after a palunteer I am helping them to express something that only they can do at that moment and if you look at our products and what we've done it is actually true even what we're doing in in like right now all across the Middle East and obviously ly in America, each single product at each single part was built by the one person in the world that could have done it. But that and then I have to somehow get them to do things that they don't actually think are valuable but on their terms. And that's basically my job because at that level of aptitude, you can't just say do this idiot because they're like why would I do that? You're the idiot. Uh and so um and and then what I think is very special about the Palunteerians, ex-punteerians and current Palunteerians is when you're at Palunteer, you're not learning to to actually follow my playbook.

Alex Karp: You're learning to follow your playbook where I'm inserting some things that may not have occurred to you. Maybe you don't know I'm doing that to make sure that your playbook gets rid of your dyslexia. Basically, I'm anti-dislexifying your playbook.

Alex Karp: It but around you. And if you take like the I don't know, there's so many really important expentiterians. What you'll see is they're a kind of classic people and they're not going to build the same company Palanteer was. They're also not going to build the same company of the next person as Palanteer. And that's why they play such a disproportional role. And at the end of the day, that's why Poundier is like playing such a big role because like Foundry, PG, Apollo, Ontology, uh the management of Ontology, Maven, which is like you know, we've just like been able to target in a way no other country can. It's like the other countries are like what the happened here like we were thinking Afghanistan like what is this? meaning our retreat like meaning and like like America has reestablished a terrence.

主持人: That actually just happened. It's happened in the last year.

Alex Karp: Like that right, left, center, I don't care what party you're in in private. Obviously, you can't say this in public. In private, that is a phenomenal asset that America now has that it did not have. And there are lots of reasons for it, but a one maybe not the most important is a concatenation of the most unusual in some cases otherwise maybe not fully functional talent built around building something that was a absolutely scandalous unpopular dream rejected by many people called Maven. And that's how this country and by the way if we are going to outperform the rest of the world uh our single advantage is to augment neurodeivergent highly individual people to be their absolutely unique best and protect their first second fourth and fifth amendment rights so that they don't get screwed.

主持人: Absolutely. Well, again, the OG American Dynamism founder, thank you so much for all you've done for the country.

Alex Karp: Thank you.