In October, Ontario's Auditor General spelled out what was already clear to a lot of parents. The province isn't on track to meet its targets for affordable child care, and will almost certainly have to change its approach if we're going to get $10 a day childare by 2026.

The province isn't on track to meet its targets for affordable child care, and will almost certainly have to change its approach if we're going to get $10 a day childare by 2026.

So, what are the challenges here? What should Ontario be doing differently? And what effect is all of this having on families? I asked Carolyn Ferns, public policy coordinator for the Ontario Coalition for Better Childare.

Carolyn, welcome to the program. How are you doing?

>> Good, thank you. Thanks for having me.

>> I want to start with uh why uh Ontario is behind in reaching the $10 a day target. Break it down for us.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I can put that in perspective. So, Ontario's had um an agreement with the federal government um which has had a schedule for them to lower child care fees over the last few years.

You know, first we were at market rates where parents were paying $100 a day for an infant space.

Um then those fees got cut in half. Uh and this past year uh fees have been capped at $22 a day,

an average of $19 a day. Um so much more affordable for families.

But you know, the schedule was that we were supposed to get down to an average of $10 a day by March.

Um but you know, the federal government and the provincial government um have been in negotiations for a new agreement, right? our childare agreement with the federal government ends in March and we don't have we didn't have a new one.

So there was months of of time went by where we were waiting for news that the two governments were at least talking.

Um we started hearing that in the fall that yes, there were negotiations underway and then last week it was announced that Ontario has reached a one-year agreement.

Um was looking at a five-year agreement. and other provinces have reached 5-year agreements, but what we have is a one-year funding extension.

Um, but the news that came in that is that Ontario is not going to meet the target of 10 a day and instead is going to stay where we are at this cap of $22 rather than proceeding where we're supposed to proceed.

Um, and that's going to happen until we have, you know, a proper, you know, longer, stronger funding agreement with the federal government.

>> All right, we'll pick up on the extension, but I I want to take a step back. um help us understand in terms of the rest of the provinces, uh how does Ontario stack up? Have the other provinces made deals?

>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's that's a good question. So, Ontario, yes, we're behind on meeting our own target of reaching 10 a day, but we're also starting to fall behind some of the other provinces where we know some provinces have already reached um that average of $10 a day.

Um, and in terms of agreements, most other provinces and territories reached agreements with the federal government back in March.

And it was at that time Ontario didn't reach a funding agreement. Said they had an agreement in principle that Ontario agreed with, you know, the overall um objectives of the the 10day childare plan, but had concerns about the funding levels.

And that's what's, you know, that that's the sticking point between the two governments is this funding gap.

>> Is there any other province that's holding out?

>> Yeah. Saskatchewan and Alberta are both provinces uh that don't yet have agreements with the federal government.

>> Similar sticking points for them.

>> Um I'd say with Alberta probably um more sticking points. I think uh the Alberta government probably has objections of the the nature of the plan.

Um but uh but with Saskatchewan we hear yeah they're eager to sign an agreement too.

Now all right I want to talk uh about the costs because you had mentioned uh the 22 about 19 now. Um, but looking at the number that you had started at

>> hundred and like

>> $100 a day,

>> $100 a day for an infant for someone who doesn't have a child.

>> I can't even think how families are budgeting that much money. So to come down to 19,

>> it's it's it's huge progress and we call it and very rightly is a gamecher for families, right?

And it's uh it's easy to forget what it was like before this program came uh came into being.

um where you know I would hear regularly when I was in touch with families I'd hear regularly about families you know where people were deciding you know can I go back to work or is it even worth it I'm just I'm just working to pay for child care

or you know uh you know families who are going into debt to pay for child care that was regular that that we heard about those things um

and now you know it's making such a difference uh for families it's a key affordability promise

>> is there a risk I know we want to see that number go down is there a risk that those numbers can actually go up.

>> Yeah. And that's what we were really worried about um when Ontario didn't, you know, have this funding agreement and we were waiting. We were saying, you know, the clock is ticking.

If we don't have an agreement in March, um we could see childcare fees go go right back up again.

Um because it's the it's the federal funding that's really making such a huge difference in in this affordability for families.

>> All right. You mentioned the province there. You also mentioned the feds.

Can we kind of point the finger? Who's who do we hold responsible for the delays here?

>> Yeah. I so that's a really good question and obviously you know this is a a a program that was started by the federal government right to to get to $10 a day

um it's the you know the $10 a day childare plan um but you know childare is still primarily a provincial responsibility and it has been for years

um so what we really need is both levels of government working together here and

um you know I hope that now that we have this one-year funding extension the two levels of government get back to that negotiating table with more of a of a goal of how do we work together?

How do we um find that workable solution to fill the funding gap so this program uh can continue and it can it can reach more families and make more of a difference.

Um because you know honestly I think politically both levels of government should be interested in doing that because families have no time for fingerpointing between the two levels of government.

Um they don't care where the money's coming from. They know this program is working. It's very popular and you know we need to see more of it.

>> Uh we should mention uh that our producers did reach out uh for a statement from the Ontario government but we did not hear back uh in time for this taping.

Um I do want to talk uh a little bit about space because that is a a big conversation here. How challenging is it for parents right now to find child care spaces for children because there is the nonprofit and then there is the for-profit conversation as well.

>> Yeah. So it's it's very challenging for families to find a childare space and that's been the situation for years, right?

So if we talk about back when it was $100 a day, it was also really hard to find one of those spaces.

And you know, pretty much any family you talk to, they would look at where they live, they would draw a great big circle around their home and they would get on every weight list that they possibly could. And that's still the reality.

Um what's changed though is that as childcare fees have gone down, you know, demand for those more affordable spaces has gone up, right?

And that's something that governments, you know, could and should have predicted that, you know, what we really need to see is much more ambitious expansion of childare spaces

so that families aren't having that weightless stress um so that they know that they can rely on the fact that there'll be a childare space there for them when uh when parental leave is over, right?

Um and you know, we're not there yet. And Ontario had a goal to reach 86,000 new spaces. We're short of that at this point.

Um which again is a reason I think for those two levels of government to get together and say okay how do we make this work? How do we get to those those spaces and more um so that we're really uh meeting the demand uh for this very popular program.

>> So fair to assume supply demand not not not reaching it.

>> Yeah. Not reaching it. And I mean there's there's reasons for that.

um you know and I think that it would be good to see I think from the provincial government u much more ambition and sort of a hands-on um approach to making sure that those spaces actually happen.

Um you know if we look at how we've built any you know real social infrastructure in this province it's not by throwing out a call for proposals and waiting for you know some some either nonprofit or for-profit operator to come along.

It's by actually planning and building that system and that's what we need to see.

All right, let's talk about uh the one-year extension with the feds. That came at a cost of $695 million uh to keep it at the existing, as you said, 19.

Um and that will hold for about 12 months. What do we need to do right now in order to get $10 a day programming implemented by then?

>> Yeah. So, you're right. The the federal government put more money into to keep fees where they are now.

And I think there's been an acknowledgement there with that from the federal government of what Ontario had flagged of a funding gap, right?

Ontario is saying, listen, we've moved now from, you know, to having a costbased funding formula where we have Ontario has better understanding now of where what the cost drivers are, what's needed to make that happen.

And if you think about it, it makes sense that it took some time for that figure to kind of emerge because, you know, when the federal government was starting this program, it really was something new.

It's like you can estimate how much is this going to cost to roll out across the country, but you know, guess what? Costs are higher in Ontario for lots of reasons, right?

Um but and and it's going to take more to make it get us to that number. So, I hope that both levels of government really do take that on.

Um you know, what we need to see, I think, from both the federal and provincial government is an understanding that funding child care is really an investment.

Um what's amazing to see is how the the the change that's happened already like the economic impacts we're seeing of the childare program just in the years that it's been um in place already.

You know, we're seeing, you know, new jobs in early learning and childare to the tune of about 40,000 new jobs across the country, right?

It makes it makes work in early learning and childare like one of the biggest job creators in the country, right? Like top tier job creator.

But we're also seeing increased uh labor force participation by parents, especially mothers, move from part-time to full-time work as they find affordable childare spaces.

And then of course, you know, um having that stress of paying for child care taken off them, they're spending more in their communities. Like all good things that are happening.

And if I think if our governments both federally and proincially understood that, you know, we would have seen a a federal budget where child care was treated as a project of national interest, which it should be, right?

Like it really is, you know, projects of national interest, not just for bros, right? Child care should be one of those things.

The same thing, you know, in the spring, we'll see the provincial budget always strong on roads and highways and bridges, that kind of infrastructure.

Child care is social infrastructure and it's a huge job creator. It's good for the economy.

If both of our governments saw it that way, I think we would get to $10 a day very quickly and we get more spaces because the bigger the program, the more spaces, the more families that can access it, the greater the economic return.

>> Well, we are going to leave it there, Carolyn. Really appreciate no pressure on the governments there to to get that done, but time is ticking from what they have.

Absolutely.

All right. Thank you so much. Thanks.