欢迎与介绍
Elise Hugh: Hello and welcome, TED members. I am Elise Hugh, the host of TED Talks Daily podcast, and I am so glad to be here with you today for the latest edition of the TED Talks Daily Book Club. Welcome.
Elise Hugh: 大家好，欢迎各位TED会员。我是Elise Hugh，TED Talks Daily播客的主持人，非常高兴今天能和大家一起参加最新一期的TED Talks Daily Book Club（TED每日讲座读书俱乐部）。欢迎大家。
Elise Hugh: This live event is part of a special series on the TED Talks Daily podcast, a show where we deliver inspiring ideas daily.
Elise Hugh: 这次直播活动是TED Talks Daily播客特别系列的一部分，我们在这个节目中每天分享鼓舞人心的思想。
Elise Hugh: And now, I'm so excited to introduce our special guest, Sarah Kay. Sarah is a writer, performer, educator, and a beloved member of the TED community.
Elise Hugh: 现在，我非常高兴地介绍我们的特邀嘉宾莎拉·凯。莎拉是一位作家、表演者、教育家，也是TED社区备受喜爱的一员。
Elise Hugh: She was just in her early 20s when her first TED talk went viral—you've probably seen it. She has since given four more TED talks and was the host of the TED podcast, Sincerely X.
Elise Hugh: 她在20岁出头时，她的第一次TED演讲就火爆全网——你们可能都看过。此后，她又发表了四次TED演讲，并曾担任TED播客Sincerely X的主持人。
Elise Hugh: Sarah is the author of five books of poetry, including her new full-length collection, "A Little Daylight Left," which just came out in April.
Elise Hugh: 莎拉是五本诗集的作者，包括她今年四月刚刚出版的全新长篇诗集《A Little Daylight Left》。
Elise Hugh: Sarah has performed her work all over the world: from the cornfields in Iowa to a ship on a fjord in Norway, to a nightclub in Singapore, to Carnegie Hall, to many middle school gymnasiums, the back rooms of dive bars, and beyond.
Elise Hugh: 莎拉的作品曾在世界各地演出：从爱荷华州的玉米田到挪威峡湾的船上，从新加坡的夜总会到卡内基音乐厅，再到许多中学体育馆、低档酒吧的后室等等。
Elise Hugh: She is the founder and co-director of Project Voice (一个利用诗歌娱乐、教育和赋能全球学生和教育工作者的组织), an organization that uses poetry to entertain, educate, and empower students and educators worldwide.
Elise Hugh: 她是Project Voice（一个利用诗歌娱乐、教育和赋能全球学生和教育工作者的组织）的创始人兼联合总监。
Elise Hugh: Sarah's poems invite us to consider what it might look like to boldly face the hard things we so often run from and to celebrate what we hold dear.
Elise Hugh: 莎拉的诗歌邀请我们思考，勇敢面对我们常常逃避的困难，并珍视我们所爱的事物，会是怎样一番景象。
Elise Hugh: I love her work; the result has been described as "a blueprint for discovering beauty in all that makes us human."
Elise Hugh: 我热爱她的作品；其成果被描述为“一份发现我们人性之美、探索人之所以为人的蓝图”。
Elise Hugh: Sarah Kay, welcome and thank you so much for joining us today.
Elise Hugh: 莎拉·凯，欢迎您，非常感谢您今天加入我们。
Sarah Kay: Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you for that kind introduction.
Sarah Kay: 哦，谢谢你们邀请我。谢谢你们如此友善的介绍。
Elise Hugh: Of course.
Elise Hugh: 当然。
诗歌的力量与作用
Elise Hugh: Well, I am amazed, and long have been, at the way you're able to bring together such vast and sometimes overwhelming topics into a space that truly feels safe and relatable.
Elise Hugh: 我一直惊叹于您能够将如此广阔、有时甚至令人难以承受的话题，融入一个真正让人感到安全和亲切的空间。
Elise Hugh: In your poem "Orange," you wrote about "the invisible thread of poetry that so many people are holding on to, even and especially people who may not have anything else in common."
Elise Hugh: 在您的诗歌《Orange》中，您写道：“诗歌是一条无形的线，许多人紧紧抓住它，即使是那些可能没有任何共同点的人。”
Elise Hugh: In your view, what makes poetry so powerful that so many people are drawn to it and hold on to it?
Elise Hugh: 在您看来，是什么让诗歌如此强大，以至于这么多人被它吸引并紧紧抓住它？
Sarah Kay: Oh, that's a big question. My relationship to poetry has evolved throughout my life, but one of the reasons I love reaching for poetry is when I'm feeling an emotion, going through an experience, or revisiting a memory that feels unlanguageable.
Sarah Kay: 哦，这是一个大问题。我对诗歌的理解随着我的人生经历而不断演变，但我喜欢寻求诗歌的原因之一是，当我感受到一种无法用语言表达的情感，经历一段体验，或重温一段记忆时。
Sarah Kay: And then I discover that someone has found language for it in the form of a poem, which is one of the most magical experiences.
Sarah Kay: 然后我发现有人以诗歌的形式找到了表达它的语言，这是一种最神奇的体验。
Sarah Kay: Poetry has certainly provided language, but also camaraderie, belonging, reassurance, community, and many other things. Poetry offers a lot.
Sarah Kay: 诗歌无疑提供了语言，但也带来了情谊、归属感、慰藉、社群，以及许多其他东西。诗歌提供了很多。
Sarah Kay: So I reach for it for many reasons. And then I get to see how other people also build lives around poetry for healing, for processing, for activism, for education, for collective experience, for live performance. It goes on and on; that's my whole thing.
Sarah Kay: 所以我出于许多原因寻求它。然后我看到其他人也围绕诗歌建立生活，用于疗愈、处理问题、行动主义、教育、集体体验、现场表演。它无穷无尽；这就是我的一切。
莎拉·凯的诗歌之路
Elise Hugh: Let's talk a little bit about your life and where you began. You grew up going to see spoken word poetry, I believe, being performed in New York City. New York City is a big part of your latest collection. Tell us a little bit about how you became a poet.
Elise Hugh: 让我们来谈谈您的生活和您的起点。我相信您是在纽约市看口语诗歌（一种以表演为核心的诗歌形式）表演长大的。纽约市是您最新诗集的重要组成部分。请告诉我们您是如何成为一名诗人的。
Sarah Kay: Sure. So I think the first, if I'm going to tell my story and my relationship to poetry, it actually has to start earlier than that, which is that when I was in elementary school, my parents on a daily basis would pack me lunch and they would take turns.
Sarah Kay: 当然。我想，如果我要讲述我的故事以及我与诗歌的关系，那实际上必须从更早的时候开始，那就是在我上小学时，我的父母每天都会给我准备午餐，他们会轮流来做。
Sarah Kay: They would trade off writing a poem and putting it in my lunch box.
Sarah Kay: 他们会轮流写一首诗，然后把它放在我的午餐盒里。
Sarah Kay: And neither of my parents consider themselves writers. Neither of them consider themselves poets. This was not part of a grand plan. They definitely did not think this was going to happen.
Sarah Kay: 我的父母都不认为自己是作家，也不认为自己是诗人。这并不是一个宏伟计划的一部分。他们绝对没想到会发生这种事。
Sarah Kay: But that is something they did as one of many things that they did to show me magic and wonder and care and love. And inadvertently they therefore introduced me to what a poem was.
Sarah Kay: 但这是他们做的许多事情之一，旨在向我展示魔力、奇迹、关怀和爱。因此，他们无意中向我介绍了诗歌是什么。
Sarah Kay: And through that version of poetry, my definition for a poem was something that was a surprise, something that was a secret, something that was as dependable as clockwork, something that someone who cared about me had made for me.
Sarah Kay: 通过那种形式的诗歌，我对诗歌的定义是：它是一种惊喜，一种秘密，一种像发条一样可靠的东西，一种关心我的人为我创造的东西。
Sarah Kay: Like that's what I understood a poem was from a very early age. And so that's what I treated poems as. I wrote them in a notebook, they were a secret and they were a small, you know, unit to present to someone I loved, usually my parent.
Sarah Kay: 这就是我从小对诗歌的理解。所以我对待诗歌的方式就是这样。我把它们写在笔记本里，它们是秘密，也是一份小小的、可以献给所爱之人的礼物，通常是我的父母。
Sarah Kay: And then when I was around 13, 14 years old, I got a letter in the mail, this is before email times, I got a physical letter in the mail that said, "Congratulations, you've been registered to compete in the New York City Teen Poetry Slam."
Sarah Kay: 后来在我大概13、14岁的时候，我收到了一封邮件，那是在电子邮件时代之前，我收到了一封实体信件，上面写着：“恭喜你，你已经注册参加纽约市青少年诗歌朗诵会（一种诗歌竞赛形式，诗人现场表演自己的作品）。”
Sarah Kay: And a poetry slam was a competition for poetry that was performed, which I did not know.
Sarah Kay: 诗歌朗诵会（一种诗歌竞赛形式，诗人现场表演自己的作品）是一种表演诗歌的比赛，我当时并不知道。
Sarah Kay: I had never seen a poetry slam. I had never heard of a poetry slam. I'm an elder millennial, so we didn't have YouTube back then, so I couldn't look it up.
Sarah Kay: 我从未见过诗歌朗诵会，也从未听说过。我是一个较年长的千禧一代，那时还没有YouTube，所以我无法查找。
Sarah Kay: All I knew about this event was that it was for teenagers in New York City who liked poems, and that was me.
Sarah Kay: 我对这个活动所知的一切就是：它是为纽约市喜欢诗歌的青少年举办的，而我就是其中之一。
Sarah Kay: And so, I went to this event and it was a room full of teenagers sharing poems that they had written and listening to each other, and applauding each other and making room for each other.
Sarah Kay: 于是，我去了这个活动，那是一个房间里挤满了青少年，他们分享自己写的诗歌，互相倾听，互相鼓掌，互相为对方腾出空间。
Sarah Kay: And I had never experienced something like that. And the lightning moment was in discovering that poetry, which had previously been a solitary, secret moment, could also be a communal experience.
Sarah Kay: 我从未有过那样的经历。而那个“电光火石”的瞬间在于发现诗歌，它以前对我来说是孤独而隐秘的时刻，也可以成为一种集体体验。
Sarah Kay: And that is what lit my wick. And this particular event, they had rented out a dive bar on the Lower East Side for this teen competition.
Sarah Kay: 这正是点燃我火花的东西。而这个特别的活动，他们租下了下东区的一家低档酒吧来举办这场青少年比赛。
Sarah Kay: Yeah. And I was so taken with the whole event. I thought, "This is the best thing I've ever seen. I want to come back next week and the week after. I want to keep coming back and keep seeing more and keep doing this forever."
Sarah Kay: 是的。我完全被整个活动吸引住了。我想：“这是我见过最好的事情。我下周还要来，下下周也要来。我想一直来，一直看，永远做下去。”
Sarah Kay: And there was a little bar flyer on the way out that said Thursday night poetry slam. And I said, "Perfect, perfect. I'll come."
Sarah Kay: 离开时，我看到一张小酒吧传单，上面写着“周四晚诗歌朗诵会”。我说：“太棒了，太棒了。我会来的。”
Sarah Kay: But I didn't understand that 364 days a year it was a dive bar.
Sarah Kay: 但我当时不明白，一年364天它都是一家低档酒吧。
Sarah Kay: And so I came back the next week as a 14-year-old and I was like, "Hello, I'm here for the poetry." And they were like, "Uh, okay. Sit over there and don't order any alcohol."
Sarah Kay: 所以我下周以一个14岁孩子的身份回来了，我说：“你好，我是来听诗歌的。”他们说：“哦，好吧。坐那边，不要点酒。”
Sarah Kay: And my parents were a little baffled because again, they're not writers and they're not performers, but they were like, "Okay, this is a thing she seems excited about. We're not going to let her go by herself, but we will go and sit on the other side of the room to not cramp her style."
Sarah Kay: 我的父母有点困惑，因为他们既不是作家也不是表演者，但他们说：“好吧，这是她看起来很兴奋的事情。我们不会让她一个人去，但我们会去，坐在房间的另一边，以免妨碍她的风格。”
Sarah Kay: And that is where I went to see poetry. And I kept coming back. And so I spent all four years of high school going to this dive bar and watching poets perform.
Sarah Kay: 我就是在那儿看诗歌表演的。我一直回去。所以我高中四年都去这家低档酒吧看诗人表演。
Sarah Kay: Mainly adult performers, mainly poets who were at least a decade my senior, but it meant that sometimes when I'm feeling cheeky, I say I didn't fall in love with poetry in a book.
Sarah Kay: 主要是成年表演者，主要是比我至少年长十岁的诗人，但这也就意味着，有时当我感到顽皮时，我会说我爱上诗歌不是在书本里。
Sarah Kay: I fell in love with poetry in a dive bar, which is true.
Sarah Kay: 我是在一个低档酒吧里爱上诗歌的，这是真的。
Sarah Kay: And it also meant that I learned poetry almost in an apprenticeship form.
Sarah Kay: 这也意味着我学习诗歌几乎是以学徒制的形式。
Sarah Kay: So, by watching what was possible and seeing all of these different styles and people who either lived in New York or were coming through New York, I got to experience such a wide range of what was possible in poetry.
Sarah Kay: 所以，通过观察可能性，看到所有这些不同的风格，以及那些住在纽约或途经纽约的人，我得以体验到诗歌中如此广泛的可能性。
Sarah Kay: And I got the unbelievable gift of a room full of adults making room for me and my poetry and taking it seriously and taking me seriously, which became the thing that I wanted to share with everybody else.
Sarah Kay: 我还得到了一个难以置信的礼物：一个房间里坐满了成年人，他们为我和我的诗歌留出空间，认真对待它，认真对待我，这成了我想要与大家分享的东西。
病毒式传播的TED演讲与“意外大使”
Elise Hugh: Speaking of a room full of adults, by the time you were 22, you were on stage giving your first TED talk. This was 2011 and you began your talk with "If I Should Have a Daughter," which was the name of your first collection of poetry.
Elise Hugh: 说到坐满了成年人的房间，在您22岁时，您登上了舞台，发表了您的第一次TED演讲。那是2011年，您以《If I Should Have a Daughter》（若我有一个女儿）开场，那是您第一本诗集的名称。
Elise Hugh: That talk went super viral and has been watched literally millions of times.
Elise Hugh: 那次演讲病毒式传播，被观看了数百万次。
Sarah Kay: If I should have a daughter, instead of mom, she's going to call me point B because that way she knows that no matter what happens, at least she can always find her way to me.
Sarah Kay: 若我有一个女儿，她不会叫我妈妈，而是叫我B点，因为这样她就知道，无论发生什么，她总能找到回到我身边的方式。
Sarah Kay: And I'm going to paint the solar systems on the backs of her hands. So, she has to learn the entire universe before she can say, "Oh, I know that like the back of my hand."
Sarah Kay: 我会在她手背上画上太阳系。这样，她必须在能说“哦，我对此了如指掌”之前，就了解整个宇宙。
Sarah Kay: And she's going to learn that this life will hit you hard in the face. Wait for you to get back up just so it can kick you in the stomach.
Sarah Kay: 她会明白，生活会狠狠地给你一耳光。等你站起来，它又会踢你的肚子。
Sarah Kay: But getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.
Sarah Kay: 但被击倒得喘不过气来，是唯一能提醒你的肺，它们有多么喜欢空气滋味的方式。
Sarah Kay: There is hurt here that cannot be fixed by band-aids or poetry. So the first time she realizes that Wonder Woman isn't coming, I'll make sure she knows she doesn't have to wear the cape all by herself.
Sarah Kay: 这里有一种伤痛，创可贴和诗歌都无法修复。所以当她第一次意识到神奇女侠不会来时，我会确保她知道她不必独自披上斗篷。
Sarah Kay: Cause no matter how wide you stretch your fingers, your hands will always be too small to catch all the pain you want to heal. Believe me, I've tried.
Sarah Kay: 因为无论你把手指张得多开，你的手永远都太小，无法抓住所有你想治愈的痛苦。相信我，我尝试过。
Sarah Kay: And baby, I'll tell her, don't keep your nose up in the air like that. I know that trick. I've done it a million times.
Sarah Kay: 宝贝，我会告诉她，不要那样把鼻子翘得高高的。我知道那个把戏。我做过无数次了。
Sarah Kay: You're just smelling for smoke. So you can follow the trail back to a burning house so you can find the boy who lost everything in the fire to see if you can save him.
Sarah Kay: 你只是在嗅探烟雾。这样你就能循着痕迹回到一座燃烧的房子，找到那个在火灾中失去一切的男孩，看看你是否能救他。
Sarah Kay: Or else find the boy who lit the fire in the first place to see if you can change him. But I know she will anyway.
Sarah Kay: 否则，就找到那个一开始放火的男孩，看看你是否能改变他。但我知道她无论如何都会这么做。
Sarah Kay: So instead, I'll always keep an extra supply of chocolate and rain boots nearby because there is no heartbreak that chocolate can't fix.
Sarah Kay: 所以，我反而会总是在附近备好额外的巧克力和雨靴，因为没有什么是巧克力无法修复的心碎。
Sarah Kay: Okay, there's a few heartbreaks that chocolate can't fix, but that's what the rain boots are for. Because rain will wash away everything if you let it.
Sarah Kay: 好的，有些心碎是巧克力无法修复的，但那就是雨靴的用途。因为如果你愿意，雨水会冲走一切。
Sarah Kay: I want her to look at the world through the underside of a glass bottom boat. To look through a microscope, at the galaxies that exist on the pinpoint of a human mind, because that's the way my mom taught me, that there'll be days like this.
Sarah Kay: 我想让她透过玻璃底船的底部看世界。透过显微镜看，人类思想的尖端上存在的星系，因为我妈妈就是这样教我的，会有这样的日子。
Sarah Kay: There'll be days like this. My mama said, when you open your hands to catch and wind up with only blisters and bruises.
Sarah Kay: 会有这样的日子。我妈妈说，当你张开双手去抓，结果却只有水泡和淤青时。
Sarah Kay: When you step out of the phone booth and try to fly and the very people you want to save are the ones standing on your cape.
Sarah Kay: 当你走出电话亭试图飞翔，而你想要拯救的人却正踩在你的披风上时。
Sarah Kay: When your boots will fill with rain and you'll be up to your knees in disappointment. And those are the very days you have all the more reason to say thank you.
Sarah Kay: 当你的靴子里灌满雨水，你将被失望淹没到膝盖时。而那些日子，你更有理由说谢谢。
Sarah Kay: Cause there's nothing more beautiful than the way the ocean refuses to stop kissing the shoreline no matter how many times it's sent away.
Sarah Kay: 因为没有什么比海洋无论被多少次推开，仍旧不停止亲吻海岸线的方式更美丽了。
Sarah Kay: You will put the wind in win some, lose some. You will put the star in starting over and over.
Sarah Kay: 你会在“赢些，输些”中注入风的力量。你会在“一次又一次重新开始”中注入星光。
Sarah Kay: And no matter how many landmines erupt in a minute, be sure your mind lands on the beauty of this funny place called life.
Sarah Kay: 无论一分钟内有多少地雷爆炸，请确保你的思绪落在生命这个有趣地方的美好之上。
Sarah Kay: And yes, on a scale from one to overrusting, I am pretty damn naive. But I want her to know that this world is made out of sugar. It can crumble so easily.
Sarah Kay: 是的，从一到过度生锈的尺度来看，我相当天真。但我希望她知道这个世界是由糖做成的。它很容易就会崩塌。
Sarah Kay: But don't be afraid to stick your tongue out and taste it. Baby, I'll tell her.
Sarah Kay: 但不要害怕伸出舌头去品尝它。宝贝，我会告诉她。
Sarah Kay: Remember, your mama is a worrier and your papa is a warrior. And you are the girl with small hands and big eyes who never stops asking for more.
Sarah Kay: 记住，你的妈妈是个忧虑者，你的爸爸是个战士。而你，是那个手小眼大、永不停止索取更多的女孩。
Sarah Kay: But remember that good things come in threes and so do bad things and always apologize when you've done something wrong.
Sarah Kay: 但要记住，好事成三，坏事也一样，做错事时一定要道歉。
Sarah Kay: But don't you ever apologize for the way your eyes refuse to stop shining. Your voice is small, but don't ever stop singing.
Sarah Kay: 但绝不要为你的眼睛拒绝停止闪耀而道歉。你的声音很小，但绝不要停止歌唱。
Sarah Kay: And when they finally hand you heartache, when they slip war and hatred under your door and offer you handouts on street corners of cynicism and defeat, you tell them that they really ought to meet your mother.
Sarah Kay: 当他们最终递给你心痛，当他们将战争与仇恨塞进你的门下，在街角以玩世不恭和失败施舍你时，你就告诉他们，他们真应该见见你的母亲。
Sarah Kay: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Sarah Kay: 谢谢。谢谢。谢谢。
Elise Hugh: And you have since described that TED talk as the start of an accidental ambassadorship. What do you mean by that?
Elise Hugh: 您后来将那次TED演讲描述为一场意外大使生涯的开始。您这话是什么意思？
Sarah Kay: Well, I was 22 when I was given that opportunity. And so all I knew was I was invited to a cool conference and maybe I'll learn some smart things. And that's about as much as I understood.
Sarah Kay: 嗯，我得到那个机会时才22岁。我当时只知道我被邀请参加一个很酷的会议，也许能学到一些聪明的东西。我理解的就这么多。
Sarah Kay: And I love performing poetry in lots of strange spaces. That's a huge part of my joy. And to me, this is just another strange space to share poems.
Sarah Kay: 我喜欢在各种奇特的地方表演诗歌。那是我快乐的很大一部分。对我来说，这只是另一个分享诗歌的奇特空间。
Sarah Kay: And of course, we didn't know that the TED platform would become so global and would become so widespread.
Sarah Kay: 当然，我们当时并不知道TED平台会变得如此全球化，如此广泛传播。
Sarah Kay: And after I gave the talk, the video did go viral. And I started to receive emails from people all over the world, many of whom would say, "Not only was that video my introduction to you and your art, but that video was my introduction to this art form. I did not know poetry was performed."
Sarah Kay: 演讲结束后，视频确实病毒式传播了。我开始收到来自世界各地人们的电子邮件，其中许多人会说：“那个视频不仅让我认识了您和您的艺术，也让我认识了这种艺术形式。我以前不知道诗歌是可以表演的。”
Sarah Kay: "Are there more people like you? Can I do this? Could you come here and show me how to do it?"
Sarah Kay: “还有像您这样的人吗？我能做到吗？您能来这里教我怎么做吗？”
Sarah Kay: And it became this unbelievable adventure of getting invited to so many surprising corners of the world to share poems and help people figure out how this art form could be useful in their communities and in their classrooms.
Sarah Kay: 于是，这变成了一场不可思议的冒险，我被邀请到世界各地许多令人惊讶的角落分享诗歌，并帮助人们弄清楚这种艺术形式如何在他们的社区和课堂中发挥作用。
Sarah Kay: And that's the accidental ambassadorship that I certainly did not know was coming.
Sarah Kay: 这就是我完全没有预料到的“意外大使”生涯。
诗歌在教育中的应用
Elise Hugh: You mentioned using poetry in the classroom. So let's jump to poetry as education and in education. You have been an educator for much of your adult life now, having started Project Voice when you were in college.
Elise Hugh: 您提到了在课堂中使用诗歌。那么，让我们谈谈诗歌作为教育和在教育中的作用。您现在大部分成年生活都在从事教育工作，在大学时就创办了Project Voice。
Elise Hugh: Can you share some of your experiences with poetry in the classroom and what it's like just teaching poetry and the benefits of younger folks learning it? I guess they don't have to be younger even.
Elise Hugh: 您能分享一些在课堂上使用诗歌的经验吗？教诗歌是怎样的体验？年轻人学习诗歌有什么好处？我想，甚至不一定是年轻人。
Sarah Kay: Certainly not. I believe you are never too young or too old for poetry. I have taught workshops that are pre-kindergarten and I have taught workshops with the elderly and everybody in between.
Sarah Kay: 当然不是。我相信你永远不会太年轻或太老而无法接触诗歌。我教过学前班的研讨会，也教过老年人的研讨会，以及介于两者之间的所有人。
Sarah Kay: Yeah. I really love working in schools probably because I fell in love with poetry as a young person and I think it was instrumental in my formation of self.
Sarah Kay: 是的。我真的很喜欢在学校工作，大概是因为我年轻时就爱上了诗歌，我认为它对我自我形成起到了关键作用。
Sarah Kay: And I love getting to help facilitate and witness someone else falling in love with poetry and discovering that there is room for them in the house of poetry.
Sarah Kay: 我喜欢帮助和见证别人爱上诗歌，并发现诗歌的殿堂里有他们的位置。
Sarah Kay: And so that's the drive. That's what continues to bring me to all these different schools and corners.
Sarah Kay: 这就是动力。这就是让我不断前往这些不同的学校和角落的原因。
Sarah Kay: And I've been doing this work for now a long time. And so trying to think of, you know, examples or stories from the classroom. There's I could we could just talk about that for the rest of the time together.
Sarah Kay: 我从事这项工作已经很长时间了。所以，如果想举一些课堂上的例子或故事，我们剩下的时间都可以用来谈论这个。
Sarah Kay: But I'll tell you something that just happened this week is well, it started longer ago in back in 2014.
Sarah Kay: 但我告诉你这周刚发生的一件事，嗯，它其实开始于更早的2014年。
Sarah Kay: I was teaching at a school in rural Georgia with another poet named Franny Choy who I love and who was working with me at Project Voice for a while.
Sarah Kay: 我当时在佐治亚州农村的一所学校教书，和另一位我非常喜欢的诗人Franny Choy一起，她当时也在Project Voice和我一起工作了一段时间。
Sarah Kay: And we did performances and we did workshops and then after school we were invited out to dinner by some of the English teachers which often happens.
Sarah Kay: 我们进行了表演和工作坊，然后放学后，我们被一些英语老师邀请去吃晚餐，这经常发生。
Sarah Kay: And at the dinner they had brought along two high school boys, two students and that's unusual. Usually after hours the students are home, but they brought them along to dinner and we had a lovely dinner, all of us together.
Sarah Kay: 晚餐时，他们带来了两个高中男生，两个学生，这很不寻常。通常放学后学生都在家，但他们带着学生来吃晚饭，我们大家一起吃了一顿愉快的晚餐。
Sarah Kay: And after dinner, one of the students who I want to say was maybe even like on the high school football team or I think he was an athlete, but he asked he was like a polite southern gentleman and he asked if he could walk us from the restaurant, the three blocks to our hotel to make sure we got home safe, which we thought was very sweet.
Sarah Kay: 晚餐后，其中一个学生，我记得他可能还在高中橄榄球队，或者我猜他是个运动员，但他很有礼貌，像个南方绅士，他问是否可以送我们从餐厅走三条街到我们的酒店，确保我们安全回家，我们觉得他非常贴心。
Sarah Kay: And when he walked us home, he handed me this letter that he had written on notebook paper.
Sarah Kay: 当他送我们回家时，他递给我一封写在笔记本纸上的信。
Sarah Kay: And the letter was about how much my poetry had meant to him and how excited he was about poetry.
Sarah Kay: 信中写道我的诗歌对他有多么重要，以及他对诗歌有多么兴奋。
Sarah Kay: And he used lines from my poems in the letter.
Sarah Kay: 他在信中引用了我诗歌中的诗句。
Elise Hugh: Wow.
Elise Hugh: 哇。
Sarah Kay: And I have a line in an old poem that the last line of my poem is "there is a girl who still writes you. She doesn't know how not to." and he ended his poem by saying, "There is a boy who still writes poems. He doesn't know how not to."
Sarah Kay: 我在一首旧诗里有一句，我诗的最后一句是“有一个女孩仍在为你写作。她不知道如何不去写。”而他用“有一个男孩仍在写诗。他不知道如何不去写。”结束了他的诗。
Sarah Kay: And there was something about the letter that just really got me. And it was sort of like I don't write poems when I'm writing poems. I don't think I'm writing poems for a high school senior on the football team in rural Georgia.
Sarah Kay: 那封信里的某些东西真的打动了我。这就像是，当我写诗的时候，我并没有想过我在为一个佐治亚州农村橄榄球队的高中生写诗。
Sarah Kay: But also, maybe I am. And maybe you never know who needs a poem that you're writing and you never know who is on the other side of a door that you can open for them into poetry.
Sarah Kay: 但也许我确实在写。而且你永远不知道谁需要你正在写的诗，你永远不知道谁在门的那一边，你可以为他们打开通往诗歌的大门。
Sarah Kay: And it was so meaningful to me that I kept the letter and I, you know, push pinned it onto my bulletin board in my bedroom and figured I'd never see this kid ever again, but was grateful to him.
Sarah Kay: 这对我来说意义非凡，所以我保留了那封信，把它钉在我卧室的布告板上，想着我可能再也见不到这个孩子了，但对他心存感激。
Sarah Kay: And last week, not even on Friday, I had a show about 30 minutes south of Atlanta for my new book and I was at the table signing books afterwards.
Sarah Kay: 而就在上周，甚至不是周五，我在亚特兰大以南约30分钟的地方为我的新书举办了一场演出，演出结束后我在桌边签名售书。
Sarah Kay: And this young man walked up holding his phone in front of him to show me a photograph, and he was like, "Hi, I'm sure you don't remember, but I actually met you a long time ago. You came to perform at my school with Franny."
Sarah Kay: 然后这个年轻人走过来，把手机举到我面前给我看一张照片，他说：“嗨，我确信您不记得了，但我很久以前见过您。您和Franny一起来我的学校表演过。”
Sarah Kay: And I looked at the photograph and I was like, "Wait, did you write me a letter?" And he was like, "Yeah, I did." And I was like, "Of course I remember you."
Sarah Kay: 我看着照片，我说：“等等，你给我写过信吗？”他说：“是的，我写过。”我说：“我当然记得你。”
Sarah Kay: And he was like, "I can't believe I can't believe you remember that." And I was like, "I can't believe you're a whole grown-up." And he was like, "I'm I'm a medical doctor."
Sarah Kay: 他说：“我不敢相信，我不敢相信您还记得那件事。”我说：“我不敢相信你已经是个大人了。”他说：“我是一名医生。”
Sarah Kay: Oh. So he's a family doctor. His wife was there. I got to meet her. She's a third-grade teacher. They're like, you know, both wonderful humans.
Sarah Kay: 哦。所以他是一名家庭医生。他的妻子也在场，我见到了她。她是一名三年级教师。他们俩都是很棒的人。
Sarah Kay: And it was so lovely because when I teach poetry workshops, I'm not teaching them with the belief that all of these kids are going to become poets, you know, and maybe some of them will never write a poem ever again, although that would make me sad.
Sarah Kay: 这真是太棒了，因为当我教授诗歌工作坊时，我并不是抱着这些孩子都会成为诗人的信念去教他们，你知道，也许他们中的一些人以后再也不会写诗了，尽管那会让我感到难过。
Sarah Kay: But even if they don't, even if it was just the time that I got to have with them, one of the things that I love about poetry is that teaching poetry or facilitating poetry is a way of teaching so many other things that is useful to you no matter what you end up doing.
Sarah Kay: 但即使他们不写，即使只是我与他们共度的时光，我热爱诗歌的一点是，教授诗歌或引导诗歌，是教授许多其他事物的途径，无论你最终做什么，这些都对你有用。
Sarah Kay: Right? Like when I'm working in a classroom with young people, really what I'm doing is helping them figure out what they really care about, what is important to them, helping them find language to talk about it in a manner that is authentic to how they actually communicate, how to present it with joy and confidence and to a room of their peers.
Sarah Kay: 对吧？就像当我在课堂上与年轻人一起工作时，我真正做的是帮助他们弄清楚他们真正关心什么，什么对他们来说是重要的，帮助他们找到语言以一种真实的方式来谈论它，以他们实际沟通的方式，如何以喜悦和自信的方式，向同龄人展示它。
Sarah Kay: To be able to bear witness to each other, to be able to be a good listener, to be able to learn empathy for a foreign narrative, to be able to collaborate, to be able to receive criticism and give helpful feedback.
Sarah Kay: 能够互相见证，能够成为一个好的倾听者，能够对陌生的叙事产生同理心，能够协作，能够接受批评并给出有益的反馈。
Sarah Kay: And all of those things are going to be useful even if you do end up a family doctor, right?
Sarah Kay: 即使你最终成为一名家庭医生，所有这些技能也都会有用，对吧？
Elise Hugh: Yeah. What a beautiful story.
Elise Hugh: 是的。多么美好的故事啊。
如何与诗歌互动
Elise Hugh: Let's get practical then. How do you think readers should engage with poetry? Do you have a preferred way of teaching folks how to approach a text?
Elise Hugh: 那么，让我们来谈谈实际问题。您认为读者应该如何与诗歌互动？您有没有偏好的方式来教大家如何解读一篇文本？
Sarah Kay: Oh, wow. I love that question. I think because I use the metaphor of having been welcomed into the house of poetry myself and how I'm always thinking of ways to try to open doors for other people into the house of poetry.
Sarah Kay: 哦，哇。我喜欢这个问题。我想，因为我自己曾被诗歌的殿堂接纳，所以我总是思考如何为其他人打开通往诗歌殿堂的大门。
Sarah Kay: To me, I also think there's no wrong way in. And so, whatever door feels open to you into poetry, try that door. Okay?
Sarah Kay: 对我来说，我也认为没有错误的进入方式。所以，无论哪扇通往诗歌的门对你来说是敞开的，就去尝试那扇门。好吗？
Sarah Kay: And I'm also always thinking of or trying to think of new doors. So, for example, if you're the kind of person who is never going to pick up a book of poems, that's fine.
Sarah Kay: 我也总是在思考或者尝试思考新的大门。所以，举例来说，如果你是那种从不打算拿起诗集的人，那也没关系。
Sarah Kay: Maybe you're the kind of person who would listen to an audiobook. I made one of those for you.
Sarah Kay: 也许你是那种会听有声书的人。我为你制作了一本。
Sarah Kay: And if you're like, "No, thank you. I don't want a whole audiobook to listen to, but I would maybe watch a YouTube video of a three-minute live performance." I've got a few of those for you.
Sarah Kay: 如果你说：“不，谢谢。我不想听整本有声书，但我可能会看一个三分钟的现场表演YouTube视频。”我也有几个这样的视频给你。
Sarah Kay: And if you're like, "No, I don't want to watch a live performance video, but I would maybe watch a beautiful animation."
Sarah Kay: 如果你说：“不，我不想看现场表演视频，但我可能会看一部精美的动画。”
Sarah Kay: I actually got to collaborate with the folks at TED Ed (TED教育，TED旗下的一个教育倡议，通过动画课程传播知识) a few years ago and we made this beautiful web series that I'm still really proud of which is called "There's a Poem for that" and it's a collaboration between animators and poets.
Sarah Kay: 几年前我曾与TED Ed（TED教育，TED旗下的一个教育倡议，通过动画课程传播知识）的团队合作，我们制作了一个我至今仍引以为豪的精美网络系列，名为《There's a Poem for that》，它是动画师和诗人之间的合作。
Sarah Kay: And so maybe you would watch an animation. And if you're like, "No, thank you. I would like to read a poem."
Sarah Kay: 所以你也许会看一部动画。如果你说：“不，谢谢。我想读一首诗。”
Sarah Kay: But maybe that's new to you and you're a little nervous about how to read a poem on the page and it looks different than you're used to and you're worried that there's a wrong way of doing it and you'd like someone to show you.
Sarah Kay: 但也许这对你来说是新鲜事，你有点紧张如何在纸上读诗，它看起来和你习惯的不同，你担心有错误的方法，你希望有人教你。
Sarah Kay: There's also a beautiful web series that I helped curate which is called Ours Poetica.
Sarah Kay: 还有一个我曾协助策划的精美网络系列，名为Ours Poetica。
Sarah Kay: And the visual is the text on the screen, but the audio is either the poet who wrote that poem or somebody who loves that poem so much reading it for you.
Sarah Kay: 视觉呈现是屏幕上的文字，但音频要么是写那首诗的诗人，要么是某个非常热爱那首诗的人为你朗读。
Sarah Kay: And so you get to see how this person would read this text on page.
Sarah Kay: 这样你就能看到这个人会如何在纸上阅读这段文字。
Sarah Kay: And so I'm always trying to figure out where can I meet you, person who perhaps doesn't know that poetry might be for you yet.
Sarah Kay: 所以我总是在努力找出，我能在哪里遇到你，那个可能还不知道诗歌可能适合你的人。
Elise Hugh: I love that.
Elise Hugh: 我喜欢这个。
创作过程与新诗集《A Little Daylight Left》
Elise Hugh: Let's talk a little bit about the writing process. You now have five collections of poetry out. You're very prolific.
Elise Hugh: 让我们来谈谈写作过程。您现在已经出版了五本诗集。您非常多产。
Elise Hugh: What does the process of writing and gathering or curating a collection of poetry look like for you?
Elise Hugh: 对您来说，撰写和收集或策划诗集的过程是怎样的？
Sarah Kay: Well, two different things. The writing looks different from the collection creation.
Sarah Kay: 嗯，这是两件不同的事。写作和诗集创作看起来不一样。
Sarah Kay: The writing of each individual poem is I think for me, I have learned that I have been reaching for poetry my entire life and the reasons I reach for it are sometimes new and the moments in which I reach for it sometimes new but the reaching is not and that might be one of the oldest parts of me.
Sarah Kay: 每一首诗的创作对我来说，我想，我明白了我在一生中都在追求诗歌，我追求它的原因有时是新的，我追求它的时刻有时是新的，但这种追求本身不是新的，那可能是我最古老的一部分。
Sarah Kay: And I think a common denominator of the instances in which I'm reaching is often when I have something that I am trying to figure out.
Sarah Kay: 我想，我追求诗歌的那些情况有一个共同点，那就是我常常有一些事情需要弄明白。
Sarah Kay: And I often think of poem as a verb and sometimes when I can't understand something and I'm wrestling with it, I have to poem my way through it and then I get to the end of the poem and I go, "Oh, that's what was going on."
Sarah Kay: 我经常把“诗歌”看作一个动词，有时当我无法理解某事并为此挣扎时，我必须用诗歌的方式来理清它，然后当我写完一首诗时，我会说：“哦，原来是这么回事。”
Sarah Kay: And sometimes I get to the end of the poem and I still don't know what's going on, but at least I have a new poem out of the situation.
Sarah Kay: 有时我写完一首诗，仍然不知道发生了什么，但至少我从这种情况中得到了一首新诗。
Sarah Kay: Yeah. And so for me, it's not super romantic. It's not like, oh, I'm inspired and the muse visits and out comes a poem. It's more like math.
Sarah Kay: 是的。所以对我来说，这并不那么浪漫。不像“哦，我受到启发，缪斯来访，然后一首诗就出来了”。它更像数学。
Sarah Kay: It's more like I'm doing a math equation in another language. And as soon as I poem my way through it, that's the that's the puzzling.
Sarah Kay: 更像是我在用另一种语言解一道数学题。一旦我用诗歌的方式解开它，那就是解谜的过程。
Sarah Kay: And so I write the poems for my own brain and heart. It's a navigation tool is what it is. It helps me maneuver my way through my own living.
Sarah Kay: 所以我为自己的大脑和心灵写诗。它是一种导航工具。它帮助我驾驭自己的生活。
Sarah Kay: And sometimes that's what the poem is for. Sometimes I write a poem and I just needed to write it and then I go, "Thank you for your service and I put it in the drawer and that's the end of that."
Sarah Kay: 有时诗歌就是为此而生。有时我写一首诗，只是需要写它，然后我说：“谢谢你的服务”，我就把它放进抽屉里，事情就此结束。
Sarah Kay: And sometimes I write a poem and there's something about the poem that I think, I think someone else might get something out of this poem.
Sarah Kay: 有时我写一首诗，这首诗里有些东西，我觉得，我觉得其他人可能会从这首诗中得到些什么。
Sarah Kay: And then I get to decide, okay, well, does this poem want to live on the page? Does this poem want to live out loud in front of people?
Sarah Kay: 然后我来决定，好吧，这首诗是想留在纸上吗？这首诗是想在众人面前大声朗读吗？
Sarah Kay: Am I thinking about what the words are doing physically on the page and the way my eye is pulled across the words or am I thinking about what my face and my voice and my intonation and my hand gestures are going to be?
Sarah Kay: 我是在思考这些词语在纸上的物理表现，以及我的视线如何被这些词语牵引，还是在思考我的面部表情、声音、语调和手势会是怎样的？
Sarah Kay: What are the tools at my disposal when I start to think about sharing this poem with other people if I decide to share it and then if I get all the way to and now we're building a collection then it's a whole different set of questions which for me is I write lots of poems not all of them are going to be in this collection and so what is this collection for what is this collection doing is there an arc and what poems serve the ark.
Sarah Kay: 当我决定与他人分享这首诗时，我有哪些可用的工具？如果我最终决定要构建一个诗集，那么就有一整套不同的问题了：我写了很多诗，但并非所有诗都会收录在这个诗集中，那么这个诗集是为了什么？它在做什么？它有一个主线吗？哪些诗歌能服务于这个主线？
Sarah Kay: And I want a person reading this collection to go on a journey that they are rewarded for reading poems in the order in which I place them.
Sarah Kay: 我希望读者在阅读这本诗集时，能经历一段旅程，并因为按照我安排的顺序阅读诗歌而有所收获。
Elise Hugh: Well, let's apply those questions to your latest collection, "A Little Daylight Left." What are those poems for? What are they doing? What is the arc?
Elise Hugh: 那么，让我们把这些问题应用到您的最新诗集《A Little Daylight Left》上。这些诗歌是为了什么？它们在做什么？主线是什么？
Sarah Kay: Great. Great. Don't be theoretical about it. Be specific.
Sarah Kay: 太棒了。太棒了。不要纸上谈兵，具体点。
Sarah Kay: So yeah, for this collection, so you are correct that I have five books, but I actually three of those books are single poem hardcover books.
Sarah Kay: 所以，是的，对于这本诗集，您说我有五本书是正确的，但我实际上其中三本是单首诗的精装书。
Sarah Kay: Yeah, that I made with my lifelong collaborator Sophia Janowitz who provided beautiful art for them and they um so so three of them are like one poem each but I actually only have two collections.
Sarah Kay: 是的，那是我与我一生的合作者Sophia Janowitz一起制作的，她为它们提供了美丽的艺术作品，所以其中三本都是一首诗，但我实际上只有两本诗集。
Sarah Kay: The first one came out 11 years ago and then this one just came out in April. And so it's been a decade of time.
Sarah Kay: 第一本是11年前出版的，这本是今年四月刚出版的。所以，这中间隔了十年。
Elise Hugh: Totally different fade. Totally different era, if you will.
Elise Hugh: 完全不同的消逝。可以说是完全不同的时代。
Sarah Kay: Different era, different everything. Yeah. And you write a lot of poems in 10 years.
Sarah Kay: 不同的时代，一切都不同。是的。十年里你会写很多诗。
Sarah Kay: And so when I started looking at all of those poems and with my amazing editor Maya Millet, she is the one together we noticed this theme of a person reaching for poetry to process whatever was happening at that moment in her life.
Sarah Kay: 所以当我开始审视所有这些诗歌时，我和我出色的编辑Maya Millet一起，我们注意到了一个主题：一个人寻求诗歌来处理她生活中当时发生的一切。
Sarah Kay: Yeah. So, this book ended up being sort of like a chronology of my reaching for poetry. And the book is in three sections.
Sarah Kay: 是的。所以，这本书最终成为了我寻求诗歌的一种编年史。这本书分为三个部分。
Sarah Kay: And the first section shows the way that I reached for poetry as a young person moving out of childhood and specifically to help me process violence.
Sarah Kay: 第一个部分展示了我作为一个年轻人如何脱离童年，寻求诗歌帮助我处理暴力。
Sarah Kay: I think the introduction of violence into my consciousness and my life. Personal violence, gendered violence, systemic violence.
Sarah Kay: 我想，暴力进入我的意识和我的生活。个人暴力，性别暴力，系统性暴力。
Sarah Kay: And then the second section is processing, using poetry to process falling in love and spoiler alert heartbreak and also reaching and searching in the way that I did as a young person.
Sarah Kay: 第二个部分是处理，用诗歌来处理坠入爱河和（剧透警告）心碎，以及像我年轻时那样去追求和探索。
Sarah Kay: And then the third section of the book is a reflection of where I am now, which is reaching for poetry to help me process aging and mortality and the sort of newer moments in which I reach for poetry.
Sarah Kay: 而本书的第三部分则反映了我现在的状态，那就是寻求诗歌来帮助我处理衰老和死亡，以及我寻求诗歌的那些较新的时刻。
Sarah Kay: And that became the project of the book. And once I found that sort of spine, then I was able to see which of all these poems help show that chronology like little ticks on a timeline.
Sarah Kay: 这就成了这本书的主题。一旦我找到了那个主线，我就能看到所有这些诗歌中，哪些能够像时间轴上的小标记一样，帮助展现那个编年史。
Elise Hugh: Okay. Well, as we talk about this timeline, we have a really great question from Miriam Kay, who's one of our TED members, who asks, "If you, Sarah in 2025 who just gave her fifth TED talk, could give advice to the Sarah in 2011 who was about to give her first, what would that advice be?"
Elise Hugh: 好的。当我们谈论这条时间线时，我们收到了一位TED会员Miriam Kay提出的一个非常好的问题，她问：“如果2025年的您，也就是刚刚发表第五次TED演讲的莎拉，能给2011年即将发表第一次TED演讲的莎拉一些建议，那会是什么建议？”
Sarah Kay: Oh, you know what's so funny? I wouldn't say a single thing to her because the only reason it worked is that I knew absolutely nothing about what was going to happen.
Sarah Kay: 哦，你知道有趣的是什么吗？我不会对她说什么，因为唯一奏效的原因是我对将要发生的一切一无所知。
Sarah Kay: I was so naive and I was so genuinely present and just delight just happy to be there and you can see it when you watch the video.
Sarah Kay: 我当时是如此天真，如此真诚地活在当下，只是很高兴能身处其中，你观看视频时就能看到这一点。
Sarah Kay: You can see it a Yeah. who's just like, "Wow, here I am, what a day."
Sarah Kay: 你可以看到，一个说“哇，我在这里，多么美好的一天”的自己。
Sarah Kay: And I think if I tried to say anything, it would it would betray too much to that kid and it would trample it.
Sarah Kay: 我想，如果我试图说些什么，那对那个孩子来说会泄露太多，也会扼杀那种纯粹。
Sarah Kay: And so I wouldn't I wouldn't say a thing. I would just I would just watch.
Sarah Kay: 所以我什么都不会说。我只会静静地看着。
诗歌的传承与社群
Elise Hugh: And in your acknowledgments, you wrote, "Thank you to the many poets who provided doorways through which I could and needed to walk in order to find these poems of my own."
Elise Hugh: 在您的致谢词中，您写道：“感谢许多诗人，他们提供了我得以和需要穿行的门道，以便找到属于我自己的这些诗歌。”
Elise Hugh: Which leads me to ask, what is your relationship to your ancestors, your teachers, both alive and no longer living? And why is their influence so important to your poetry?
Elise Hugh: 这让我不禁要问，您与您的祖先、您的老师，无论是健在的还是已故的，关系如何？为什么他们的影响对您的诗歌如此重要？
Sarah Kay: Well, poetry is this ancient ancient art form. It's as old as we are.
Sarah Kay: 嗯，诗歌是一种非常古老的艺术形式。它和我们人类一样古老。
Sarah Kay: And there are so there are so many poets who were maybe even not allowed the title of poet or were not concerned with the title of poet.
Sarah Kay: 有太多的诗人，他们甚至可能不被允许拥有诗人的头衔，或者根本不在乎诗人的头衔。
Sarah Kay: And we're still reaching for language for the unlanguageable. Yeah.
Sarah Kay: 而我们仍在为那些无法言说的寻找语言。是的。
Sarah Kay: And I think because I fell in love with poetry in a dive bar, so much of my love of poetry comes from its communal possibilities.
Sarah Kay: 我想，因为我是在一个低档酒吧里爱上诗歌的，所以我对诗歌的热爱很大程度上源于它的社群可能性。
Sarah Kay: Both as shared experience of live performance, but also opportunity for community building, opportunity for healing, opportunity for naming, opportunity for calling out, opportunity for calling in, for showing each other ourselves and our vulnerable humanness and our bravery.
Sarah Kay: 既是现场表演的共同体验，也是建立社区、疗愈、命名、呼吁、邀请、向彼此展示我们自身、我们脆弱的人性和我们勇气的机会。
Sarah Kay: And I I would not be here if a room full of adults had not taken me seriously as an artist before I took myself seriously as an artist.
Sarah Kay: 如果在我认真对待自己作为一名艺术家之前，没有一个房间的成年人认真对待我作为一名艺术家，我就不会在这里。
Sarah Kay: And so I'm so aware of the many shoulders upon which I stand. Yeah. Many of whom are, you know, also standing next to me.
Sarah Kay: 所以我非常清楚，我是站在许多巨人的肩膀上。是的。其中许多人，你知道，也站在我旁边。
Sarah Kay: You know, I there's a lot of horizontal mentorship too that's really important to me.
Sarah Kay: 我觉得，还有很多横向的指导对我来说也真的很重要。
Sarah Kay: And because I get to work in schools and because I get to work with young people, I learned so much from them as well.
Sarah Kay: 而且因为我能在学校工作，能和年轻人一起工作，我也从他们身上学到了很多。
Sarah Kay: I think an accidental incredible gem of a gift of being in that dive bar is it allowed me to have intergenerational friendship, which is rare.
Sarah Kay: 我认为能在那个低档酒吧里，意外地获得一份不可思议的珍贵礼物是，它让我拥有了代际友谊，这很罕见。
Sarah Kay: But because I was 14 in a dive bar, I became friends with people who were at least a decade my senior, sometimes more, but they were my friends. They weren't my parents' friends.
Sarah Kay: 但因为我14岁就在低档酒吧里，我结识的朋友都比我至少年长十年，有时甚至更多，但他们是我的朋友，不是我父母的朋友。
Sarah Kay: And so even just even just having intergenerational friendship from the beginning then became so ingrained in me as important as a way to learn from someone whose life is at a different stage than yours.
Sarah Kay: 所以，从一开始就拥有代际友谊，这在我心中根深蒂固，成为一种重要的方式，可以向那些生活阶段与你不同的人学习。
Sarah Kay: And so now I also have friendships with people who are you know, generationally younger than me and yeah, so I I don't know, I we are both descendants of and ancestors too at the same time all the time.
Sarah Kay: 所以现在我也有一些比我年轻一代的朋友，是的，所以我不知道，我们一直同时既是后代，也是祖先。
Sarah Kay: And I hold that both of those roles with great esteem and importance and responsibility. Yeah.
Sarah Kay: 我对这两个角色都怀有极大的尊重、重视和责任感。是的。
给创作者的建议
Elise Hugh: Okay. So, for someone listening to this and maybe they're feeling inspired to write or create but doesn't know where to start, what would you tell them?
Elise Hugh: 好的。那么，对于正在听这段对话，也许感到受启发想要写作或创作，但不知道从何开始的人，您会告诉他们什么？
Sarah Kay: I would tell them the best thing about poetry is there are no locked doors in front of you for trying.
Sarah Kay: 我会告诉他们，诗歌最棒的一点是，你面前没有上锁的门阻碍你去尝试。
Sarah Kay: There's so often barriers or obstacles or equipment standing between you and the art you're curious about. Right. Not so with poetry.
Sarah Kay: 常常有障碍、阻碍或设备横亘在你和你好奇的艺术之间。对。但诗歌不是这样。
Sarah Kay: The starting is in your pocket. It is it is waiting for you.
Sarah Kay: 起点就在你的口袋里。它正在等待着你。
Sarah Kay: And the great news is, you know, if you wanted to be a filmmaker, you would watch a lot of movies. If you wanted to be a novelist, you would read a lot of books.
Sarah Kay: 好消息是，你知道，如果你想成为一名电影制作人，你会看很多电影。如果你想成为一名小说家，你会读很多书。
Sarah Kay: Movies and novels take a long time. But poems, they're quite small and you can read many of them pretty quickly and you can watch many of them pretty quickly.
Sarah Kay: 电影和小说需要很长时间。但诗歌，它们很短小，你可以很快读完很多首，也可以很快看完很多首。
Sarah Kay: And so watching and reading and listening and seeing all you know as many different kinds of poems from as many different kinds of people as possible is the best way to just learn about what is possible and then you can expand on what is possible.
Sarah Kay: 所以，观看、阅读、聆听和尽可能多地了解各种不同类型的人创作的诗歌，是了解诗歌可能性的最佳方式，然后你就可以在此基础上拓展这些可能性。
Elise Hugh: Great advice.
Elise Hugh: 很棒的建议。
诗歌处方 (Poetry RX)
Elise Hugh: And now we're going to transition into the closing section of this conversation, which I'm super excited about.
Elise Hugh: 现在我们将进入这次对话的最后部分，对此我非常兴奋。
Elise Hugh: We're going to do a version of something that you used to do with the Paris Review (《巴黎评论》，一本著名的文学季刊), which I think is pretty brilliant.
Elise Hugh: 我们将做您以前与**《巴黎评论》**（一本著名的文学季刊）合作过的一个活动，我认为这相当出色。
Elise Hugh: So, before we get started, can you tell us a little bit about what we're about to do? What Poetry RX (诗歌处方，一个用诗歌解决生活困境的栏目) means, where the idea came from, and what it means when you say to reach for a poem?
Elise Hugh: 那么，在我们开始之前，您能简单介绍一下我们即将要做什么吗？Poetry RX（诗歌处方，一个用诗歌解决生活困境的栏目）是什么意思，这个想法从何而来，以及您所说的“寻求一首诗”意味着什么？
Sarah Kay: So, Poetry RX was a column that I got to co-write with two other poets, my dear friends Kava Akbar and Claire Schwarz for a little while at the Parish Review online.
Sarah Kay: Poetry RX是我在《巴黎评论》在线版上与另外两位诗人，我的挚友Kava Akbar和Claire Schwarz共同撰写的一个专栏。
Sarah Kay: I think all the archives are still online, so you can still find it. And it was sort of a faux advice column.
Sarah Kay: 我想所有的档案都还在网上，所以你仍然可以找到它。它有点像一个虚假的建议专栏。
Sarah Kay: Yeah. But really what it was is people would write in and tell us about their very specific heartache and then we would prescribe them a poem for their troubles.
Sarah Kay: 是的。但实际上，人们会写信进来，告诉我们他们非常具体的心痛，然后我们会为他们的问题开一首诗作为处方。
Sarah Kay: And again, I think because one of my favorite moments of living is when a poem reaches me at the exact moment I needed it.
Sarah Kay: 再次强调，我想是因为我生活中最喜欢的时刻之一，就是一首诗在我最需要它的那一刻触动了我。
Elise Hugh: Yes. Yes.
Elise Hugh: 是的。是的。
Sarah Kay: And I go, "Oh, I didn't even know I needed language for this and they found it and now it's in my hands."
Sarah Kay: 然后我心想：“哦，我甚至不知道我需要用语言来表达这个，而他们找到了它，现在它就在我手中。”
Sarah Kay: Nothing feels more lucky or aligned for me personally. And so I love the challenge of trying to create that or something close to it for other people.
Sarah Kay: 对我个人而言，没有什么比这更幸运或更契合的了。所以我喜欢尝试为他人创造这种体验或接近它的挑战。
Sarah Kay: And so we asked folks to write in with their very specific current heartache or heart question.
Sarah Kay: 所以我们请大家写信，描述他们目前非常具体的心痛或心灵困惑。
Elise Hugh: And I tried to find them a poem for their troubles. We had so many thoughtful submissions when we asked you all to write in to Sarah.
Elise Hugh: 我试图为他们的烦恼找到一首诗。当我们请大家写信给莎拉时，我们收到了许多深思熟虑的投稿。
Elise Hugh: So here is the first one I have for you, Sarah K, from Angela S. They are asking about how to manage an immigrant's distress in the current state of America.
Elise Hugh: 那么，莎拉·凯，这是我为您准备的第一个问题，来自Angela S.。他们想知道如何在美国目前的状况下，处理移民的痛苦。
Elise Hugh: Angela writes, "It's hard to feel grateful for the opportunities this country has given while also feeling afraid and unwelcomed. That kind of emotional conflict is hard to explain to people who haven't lived it. It's like holding your breath in a place that's supposed to be home."
Elise Hugh: Angela写道：“很难对这个国家给予的机会心存感激，同时又感到害怕和不受欢迎。这种情感冲突很难向没有经历过的人解释。这就像在一个本应是家的地方屏住呼吸。”
Elise Hugh: Thank you for writing this prompt.
Elise Hugh: 感谢您提出这个问题。
Sarah Kay: The poem that I chose for you is one of my favorite poems. It's by the poet Safia Elhillo, who's a Sudanese American poet, and her poem is called "Self-Portrait with No Flag."
Sarah Kay: 我为您选择的这首诗是我最喜欢的诗歌之一。它出自苏丹裔美国诗人Safia Elhillo之手，她的诗名为《没有旗帜的自画像》。
Sarah Kay: I pledge allegiance to my homies, to my mother's small and cool palms, to the gap between my brother's two front teeth, and to my grandmother's good brown hands.
Sarah Kay: 我宣誓效忠我的兄弟们，效忠我母亲小巧冰凉的手掌，效忠我弟弟门牙间的缝隙，以及我祖母善良棕色的双手。
Sarah Kay: Good, strong brown hands gathering my bare feet in her lap. I pledge allegiance to the group text.
Sarah Kay: 善良、强壮的棕色双手，将我赤裸的双脚拢在她膝上。我宣誓效忠群聊。
Sarah Kay: I pledge allegiance to laughter and to all the boys I have a crush on. I pledge allegiance to my spearmint plant, to my split ends, to my grandfather's brain and gray left eye.
Sarah Kay: 我宣誓效忠欢笑，效忠所有我暗恋的男孩。我宣誓效忠我的薄荷植物，效忠我的分叉发梢，效忠我祖父的大脑和灰色的左眼。
Sarah Kay: I come from two failed countries and I give them back. I pledge allegiance to no land, no border cut by force to draw blood.
Sarah Kay: 我来自两个失败的国家，我将它们归还。我宣誓不效忠任何土地，不效忠任何暴力划开的、流血的边界。
Sarah Kay: I pledge allegiance to no government, no collection of white men carving up the map with their pens.
Sarah Kay: 我宣誓不效忠任何政府，不效忠任何一群白人用钢笔瓜分地图的行为。
Sarah Kay: I choose the table at the Waffle House with all my loved ones crowded into the booth.
Sarah Kay: 我选择华夫饼店的桌子，与所有我爱的人挤在卡座里。
Sarah Kay: I choose the shining dark of our faces through a thin sheet of smoke. Glowing dark of our faces, slick under layers of sweat.
Sarah Kay: 我选择透过薄薄的烟雾，我们脸上闪耀的黑暗。我们脸上闪耀的黑暗，在层层汗水下光滑。
Sarah Kay: I choose the world we make with our living, refusing to be unmade by what surrounds us.
Sarah Kay: 我选择我们用生命创造的世界，拒绝被周围的一切摧毁。
Sarah Kay: I choose us gathered at the lakeside, the light glinting off the water and our laughing teeth and along the living dark of our hair. And this is my only country.
Sarah Kay: 我选择我们聚集在湖边，阳光在水面上闪烁，映照着我们欢笑的牙齿和我们乌黑的头发。这便是我的唯一故乡。
Elise Hugh: Thank you so much for sharing that.
Elise Hugh: 非常感谢您分享这首诗。
Elise Hugh: We only have time for one more, but we again, we received so many incredible prompts. So, thank you to everyone who took the time to submit something.
Elise Hugh: 我们只剩下时间再回答一个问题了，但我们再次收到了许多精彩的问题。所以，感谢所有花时间提交问题的人。
Elise Hugh: Our last prompt for today is from Robin S. who shared with us, "When I get a whiff that something beautiful is happening, my mind automatically warns me that it will not last or that maybe I am mistaken."
Elise Hugh: 我们今天的最后一个问题来自Robin S.，她分享道：“当我嗅到美好事物即将发生时，我的大脑会自动警告我，它不会持久，或者我可能弄错了。”
Elise Hugh: "What is your advice?" And just full disclosure, I totally relate to this. I'm always like, is there another shoe about to drop? So, give us a poem for this, Sarah.
Elise Hugh: “您的建议是什么？”说实话，我完全理解这种感受。我总是觉得，是不是有什么坏事要发生了？所以，莎拉，请为我们推荐一首诗吧。
Sarah Kay: Certainly. This is a poem by Palestinian American Hala Alion that I love called "Spoiler."
Sarah Kay: 当然。这是巴勒斯坦裔美国诗人Hala Alion的一首我非常喜欢的诗，名为《剧透》。
Sarah Kay: Can you diagnose fear? The red tree blooming from my uterus to throat. It's one long nerve, the doctor says. There's a reason breathing helps.
Sarah Kay: 你能诊断恐惧吗？那棵从我的子宫一直开到喉咙的红色树。医生说，那是一根长长的神经。呼吸之所以有帮助，是有原因的。
Sarah Kay: The muscles slackening like a dead marriage. Mine are simple things. Food poisoning in Paris, hospital lobbies, my husband laughing in another room, the door closed.
Sarah Kay: 肌肉松弛得像一段死去的婚姻。我的恐惧很简单。巴黎的食物中毒，医院大厅，我丈夫在另一个房间里大笑，门关着。
Sarah Kay: For days I cradle my breast and worry the cyst like a bead. There's nothing to pray away. The tree loves her cutter.
Sarah Kay: 几天来，我抱着我的乳房，像抚摸珠子一样担忧着囊肿。没有什么可以祈祷消除的。这棵树爱着她的伐木者。
Sarah Kay: The nightmares have stopped. I tell the doctor. I know why they stopped because I baptized them.
Sarah Kay: 噩梦已经停止了。我告诉医生。我知道它们为什么停止，因为我给它们施了洗。
Sarah Kay: This is how my mother and I speak of dying. The thing you turn away by letting in. I'm tired of April. It's killed our matriarchs.
Sarah Kay: 我母亲和我是这样谈论死亡的。你通过接纳来回避的事物。我厌倦了四月。它杀死了我们的女族长。
Sarah Kay: And in the backyard, I've planted an olive sapling in the wrong soil. There is a droopiness to the branches that reminds me of my friend.
Sarah Kay: 在后院，我在错误的土壤里种了一棵橄榄树苗。树枝的垂坠感让我想起了我的朋友。
Sarah Kay: The one who calls to ask, "What's the point?" Or the patients who come to me swarmed with misery and astonishment.
Sarah Kay: 那个打电话问“有什么意义？”的朋友。或者那些被痛苦和震惊包围着来找我的病人。
Sarah Kay: Their hearts like newborns after the first needle. What now? They all want to know what now.
Sarah Kay: 他们的心就像新生儿打第一针后的反应。现在怎么办？他们都想知道现在怎么办。
Sarah Kay: I imagine it like a beach. There is a magnificent sand castle that has taken years to build. A row of pink seashells for gables. Rooms of pebbles and driftwood.
Sarah Kay: 我把它想象成一片海滩。那里有一座宏伟的沙堡，耗费数年建成。一排排粉色贝壳作山墙。房间里铺满了卵石和浮木。
Sarah Kay: This is your life. Then comes the affair. Nagging blood work. A freeway pileup. The tide moves in.
Sarah Kay: 这就是你的生活。然后，事情发生了。烦人的验血。高速公路连环车祸。潮水涌来。
Sarah Kay: The water eats your work like a drove of wild birds. There is debris, a tatter of seagrass and blood from where you scratched your own arm trying to fight the current.
Sarah Kay: 水像一群野鸟般吞噬你的作品。剩下的是残骸，一片海草碎片和你试图对抗水流时抓伤自己手臂留下的血迹。
Sarah Kay: It might not happen for a long time. But one day you run your fingers through the sand again, scoop a fistful out and pat it into a new floor.
Sarah Kay: 这可能很久都不会发生。但总有一天，你会再次用手指拂过沙子，抓起一把，轻拍成一个新的地面。
Sarah Kay: You can believe in anything. So why not believe this will last? The sea shell rafter like eyes in the glowing.
Sarah Kay: 你可以相信任何事。那为何不相信这会持久？贝壳椽子像发光中的眼睛。
Sarah Kay: I'm here to tell you the tide will never stop coming in. I'm here to tell you whatever you build will be ruined. So make it beautiful.
Sarah Kay: 我在这里告诉你，潮水永远不会停止涌入。我在这里告诉你，你所建造的一切都将毁灭。所以，把它造得美丽吧。
Elise Hugh: Thank you so much for that. By the way, I feel like, you know what a what a special and sacred time that we all get to spend together in community.
Elise Hugh: 非常感谢您。顺便说一句，我觉得，我们大家能在这个社区里共度一段多么特别而神圣的时光啊。
Elise Hugh: Thank you to everybody who wrote in. Before we wrap, a lot of people have been asking questions and submitting questions, too.
Elise Hugh: 感谢所有来信的人。在我们结束之前，很多人也一直在提问和提交问题。
Elise Hugh: So, I want to just end our hour with as many questions as we can get to.
Elise Hugh: 所以，我想在这一小时的最后尽可能多地回答问题。
问答环节：绝望、灵感与人工智能
Elise Hugh: First from Zanap, "I feel hopeless as a young person living in a world that's going through wars, genocide, inequality, uncertainty, capitalism, in a world that's in a state of despair. What do I do as an individual? What does art stand in here?"
Elise Hugh: 首先是Zanap的问题：“作为一个生活在充满战争、种族灭绝、不平等、不确定性、资本主义，一个充满绝望的世界里的年轻人，我感到绝望。作为个体，我能做什么？艺术在这里代表什么？”
Sarah Kay: Well, I think large systemic fires cannot be put out by individuals, but individuals can be responsible for offering what they have to offer.
Sarah Kay: 嗯，我认为巨大的系统性问题不能由个人来解决，但个人可以负责贡献他们所能贡献的。
Sarah Kay: The poet Eve Luing has this beautiful call to action which is to always be teaching someone and learning from someone.
Sarah Kay: 诗人Eve Luing有一个美丽的行动呼吁，那就是永远在教导别人，并向别人学习。
Sarah Kay: And so to ask yourself, what do I know how to do that I could teach someone else how to do?
Sarah Kay: 所以要问问你自己，我有什么技能可以教给别人？
Sarah Kay: That education, we often put education in only formal settings, but learning is lifelong and happens outside the classroom all the time.
Sarah Kay: 这种教育，我们常常只把教育放在正式场合，但学习是终身的，并且一直在课堂之外发生。
Sarah Kay: Sometimes in a dive bar, but it happens everywhere. Happens in your community, happens with your neighbors, happens with your nieces.
Sarah Kay: 有时是在低档酒吧里，但它无处不在。发生在你的社区，发生在你的邻居之间，发生在你的侄女们身上。
Sarah Kay: What are the things you know how to do, how to see, how to explain, and how can you teach people what you know?
Sarah Kay: 你知道如何做、如何看、如何解释哪些事情？你如何才能把你所知道的教给别人？
Sarah Kay: That's something you uniquely are qualified to do and can offer. And then always also trying to learn from other people what they can uniquely teach you.
Sarah Kay: 这是你独特地有资格做并能提供的东西。然后，也要始终努力向其他人学习他们能独特地教给你的东西。
Sarah Kay: I think that's something that feels actionable and focusable.
Sarah Kay: 我认为那是一种感觉可行且可聚焦的事情。
Elise Hugh: Um this might be tricky to just list off, but Laura asks, "Which poems are on your life soundtrack? Which poems could be credited with moving or changing you the most?"
Elise Hugh: 嗯，这可能很难一一列举，但Laura问：“哪些诗歌是您生命中的配乐？哪些诗歌对您的触动或改变最大？”
Sarah Kay: Oh, good heavens. Uh yeah. Okay. Well, an easy one is one of there's two epigraphs (题词，引言) at the beginning of "A Little Daylight Left."
Sarah Kay: 哦，天哪。嗯，好的。一个比较容易回答的是，《A Little Daylight Left》开篇有两句题词（引言）。
Sarah Kay: One is a quote from the poet Laura Lamb Brown Lavoy and it comes from her poem that the whole title is "on this the 100th anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic we reconsider the buoyancy of the human heart" which is one of my favorite poems and you can find a video of me reading it online.
Sarah Kay: 其中一句引用自诗人Laura Lamb Brown Lavoy，出自她的诗歌，这首诗的完整标题是“在泰坦尼克号沉没一百周年之际，我们重新思考人类心脏的浮力”，这是我最喜欢的诗歌之一，你可以在网上找到我朗读它的视频。
Sarah Kay: That's that's a poem that I revisit multiple times a year.
Sarah Kay: 那是我每年都会重温好几次的诗。
Elise Hugh: From Cat H, "is there a moment when your poetry gave you a revelation or offered you a revelation that frightened you?"
Elise Hugh: Cat H问：“您的诗歌是否曾给您带来过启示，或者说，曾给您带来过让您感到恐惧的启示？”
Sarah Kay: I'm thinking of there's the poet and writer Hanifurakib has a story in one of his books where I think it's in "There's Always This Year" where he talks about getting to meet an astronaut as a child.
Sarah Kay: 我在想，诗人兼作家Hanifurakib在他的某本书里有一个故事，我想是在《There's Always This Year》中，他谈到自己小时候有机会见到一位宇航员。
Sarah Kay: He got a chance to meet a famous astronaut and he got to ask one question and his question was when you were up there, were you scared?
Sarah Kay: 他有机会见到一位著名的宇航员，他可以问一个问题，他的问题是：当你在太空中时，你害怕吗？
Sarah Kay: And his answer was yes of course but never more than I was curious.
Sarah Kay: 他的回答是：是的，当然害怕，但从没有比我好奇心更重。
Sarah Kay: And I think that that's really helpful as a guideline for me like yeah things realizations and self-realizations and discoveries about the world can be scary and I am so curious about myself and the world that I live in and letting that curiosity take the steering wheel like fear can be in the car but it doesn't get to drive.
Sarah Kay: 我认为这对我来说是一个非常有用的指导方针，就像，是的，洞察、自我认知以及对世界的发现可能会令人恐惧，但我对自己和我所生活的世界充满了好奇，让好奇心掌握方向盘，恐惧可以待在车里，但它不能驾驶。
Elise Hugh: Yeah. Okay. This is very TED question from Mari Angela A. "How will AI change the way we make poetry?"
Elise Hugh: 是的。好的。这是Mari Angela A.提出的一个非常TED式的问题：“人工智能将如何改变我们创作诗歌的方式？”
Sarah Kay: I don't know. I you know that's a predictive question that I a prediction I I won't make.
Sarah Kay: 我不知道。你知道，这是一个预测性的问题，我不会做出这样的预测。
Sarah Kay: But I think I would caution or what I would say is it makes me sad.
Sarah Kay: 但我想我会提出警告，或者说，这让我感到难过。
Sarah Kay: It makes me sad when people delegate their the parts of themsel that make them human to the nonhumans because it's a it means you're robbing yourself of those opportunities to be as human as possible.
Sarah Kay: 当人们将他们作为人类的部分，那些使他们成为人的部分，委托给非人类时，这让我感到难过，因为这意味着你剥夺了自己尽可能成为人类的机会。
Sarah Kay: And so like, you know, when people are like, "Oh, you can just get the AI to write your wife a love letter, I guess."
Sarah Kay: 所以，你知道，当人们说：“哦，你可以让人工智能给你的妻子写一封情书，我想。”
Sarah Kay: But do you think your wife wants like a well scripted AI written love letter or do you think your wife wants like you to be vulnerably stumbling through trying to find language for your feelings for her?
Sarah Kay: 但你认为你的妻子是想要一封由人工智能精心撰写的情书，还是希望你脆弱地摸索着，努力为她寻找表达你情感的语言？
Sarah Kay: You know, like that's the human part. And to give it away robs you of that opportunity.
Sarah Kay: 你知道，那才是人性的一部分。放弃它会剥夺你那个机会。
Sarah Kay: So I think you know you could read AI poems I guess but I think when we read a poem written by a human we feel their humanness through the language and it is their mortality and it is their unique life and living that is only theirs that made that poem possible.
Sarah Kay: 所以我想，你可以阅读人工智能诗歌，但我认为当我们阅读人类所写的诗歌时，我们通过语言感受到他们的人性，正是他们的凡俗、他们独特的生命和生活，只属于他们，才使那首诗成为可能。
Sarah Kay: That's what we're interested in and excited about. Not predicting what words belong in what order.
Sarah Kay: 这才是我们感兴趣和兴奋的地方。而不是预测哪些词语应该以什么顺序排列。
Elise Hugh: Right. Well, Sarah K, that brings us to the end of our time together. Thank you so much for this incredibly moving and soul nourishing conversation.
Elise Hugh: 是的。好的，莎拉·凯，我们的时间到了。非常感谢您带来这场如此动人心弦、滋养灵魂的对话。
Sarah Kay: Thank you, Elise, so much. Thank you to everybody at TED. Thank you. Bye y'all.
Sarah Kay: 非常感谢您，Elise。感谢TED的各位。谢谢大家。再见。