Let them have their opinions.

Let them have their disappointment.

Let them not understand my dreams.

Let them not be as supportive as I would like them to be.

Let them be a little cold to the person that I'm dating.

Let them let them. Let them. Let them. Let them.

You're creating this beautiful space where you're operating from compassion and acceptance.

I'm Kyra Blackwell.

I'm Rosie Garin.

And you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.

Hey, Kyra.

Hi, Rosie.

Tomorrow's Thanksgiving.

Yes, it is.

I think of it as the kickoff to the holiday season and kind of a favorite time of the year on this show.

We so far have covered how to prep for holiday cooking.

We're about to publish an entire series on holiday gifting.

Wire cutter itself provides a ton of practical advice about these sort of tactical elements of the holidays.

Mhm.

But in my experience, along with preparing big holiday meals, giving, receiving gifts, there can come a host of let's call them big feelings, big emotions,

the intangible ones.

The intangibles.

often times it's important for our own sanity to set some boundaries around some of this stuff, particularly with family, close friends, and folks you don't get to see.

And so, we're talking to someone today who is excellent for this kind of advice, and her name is Mel Robbins.

Mel is a podcast host and an author specializing in personal growth.

Her show, you may have heard of it, it's called the Mel Robbins Podcast.

It was just named the number three podcast of 2025 by Apple Podcasts, which is incredible.

She has one of the most viewed TED talks of all time.

And then, of course, she has her new book. It's called The Let Them Theory.

It's a step-by-step guide for how to quit letting other people's opinions, drama, judgment, whatever else affect you and your life.

I'm so obsessed with her.

I'm so happy that she agreed to come on and talk to us.

And I think people will be excited to hear that we're trying something a little bit different today with Mel.

We won't be recommending any specific products, but what we want to talk to Mel about is setting these boundaries over the holiday season.

Her best advice for keeping the temperature cool, having a good time, actually enjoying the rare times you get to spend with your loved ones.

I love it.

I can't wait to talk to her.

We'll be right back.

Welcome back.

With us now is Mel Robbins, who's the author of The Let Them Theory and The 5-Second Rule,

and she is the host of her own podcast, The Mel Robbins Podcast.

It's an incredible show.

Welcome.

Hi.

I'm such a huge fan and I feel like I should give you a bill because I've bought so much stuff based on your recommendations.

I I swear to God, I will not buy an appliance.

I will not buy a small gadget.

I have more things in my house from tech bags to other stuff that has made my life better.

Thank you on behalf of all of your fans for being the unsung heroes who are saving us money and recommending things that make our life better.

I have to say the team is just full of people who are so excited about doing the testing to make sure that if you are the person buying the tech bag that you're not going to hate it.

Yes.

So, thank you.

That it's going to help your life.

Okay.

So, Mel, if anyone out there doesn't know you, talk about your career trajectory because you didn't start here.

No.

No.

So, I'm 57 and I think one of the things that I'm very proud of is all of this that you see now, whether it's the Mel Robbins podcast or it's the Let Them Theory, all of this happened after the biggest breakdown in my life at the age of 41.

And it is a really cool thing to see that a human being can go from a midlife breakdown where I was $800,000 in debt and everything about my life was falling apart, three kids under the age of 10, leans on the house, wanting to kill your spouse because that's easier than taking responsibility for fixing it.

Just blame it on him or her.

16 years later, army crawl my way day by day by day to a completely different life.

And so, you know, one of the things that that talk a lot about because I've experienced it in my life is that there are really horrible things that are going to happen to you.

There are unfair things that happen in the world.

There are things that you do not deserve that are going to happen.

But it's on you to find a reason to keep going.

Yeah.

And for me, I realized I had this epiphany that the real challenge in life is how do you make yourself do the little things when you feel discouraged?

And that was me.

And you know, I I guess I got lucky.

But that's kind of where the let them theory came about, isn't it?

Yeah.

The let them theory is this incredible thing.

It has changed my life.

And it's almost embarrassing because, you know, I look back at a lot of the things that I've talked about.

It's easy to put something on social media. It's like, don't care what other people think, you know, just let it go, you know, like stop trying to control everybody.

You can only control yourself.

How?

Yeah.

How do you do that?

So then let them What do you This is It's a thing you can reach for.

Oh, this is a tool.

This is like a wire cutter 101.

Explain it like it's a wire cutter product.

Oh, I love this.

You could go and grab.

You got it.

Okay.

So, the fastest way to feel more peace and power in your life is to stop trying to control and change other people.

Let them have their thoughts.

Let them have their behavior.

Let them have their expectations and their opinions despite how annoying they are.

Just let them.

Let other people be who they are and who they're not.

And then the second part of the theory is you then say let me let me focus on my thoughts, my feelings, my behavior because that's the only thing I can control.

I was making this mistake of thinking that the way to feel more in control in your life is to control other people.

Right?

The way to have better relationships is to change everybody else.

Oh, if only my dad were this way, if only my spouse were this way, if only my kid were this way, then my life would be better.

No, your relationships change for the better when you learn how to let people be who they are and who they're not, which is acceptance.

And you change yourself.

Because when you change yourself, the energy and the dynamic between you and other people changes.

And that's where the true transformation comes.

And so just today, notice when you start to feel stressed or you are gripping the wheel as you're driving and listening to us and somebody cuts you off and it's like or you're taking us for a walk right now and some idiot at the dog park doesn't pick up the and you're like rude people.

And here's what I want you to do.

I want you to just say let them.

Somebody schedules a video conference call at five o'clock this Friday.

Let them.

And when you say let them, it's just a boundary between you and the outside world.

Because the truth is the one thing you will never be able to change is other people,

right?

What they do, what they say.

Other people are rude.

They can be inconsiderate.

They can be emotional.

They can have expectations.

They have judgments.

Let them.

We're talking often about spending time with people where there's intimacy and history and a lot of love and maybe a lot of other things.

Yes.

So, I'm wondering thinking about let them how

how when you don't want to lose the love.

Let's be super specific.

Like at the holidays, it's usually like especially when it comes to family.

Especially when it comes to family.

Sometimes you're worried that they might be judgmental or they might they are judgmental.

Oh, they definitely are disapproving.

And so are you, by the way.

Totally.

Totally.

So, it's funny cuz we all sit here and we're like, "Well, I think he's really judgmental."

Well, so are you.

Yeah.

Right.

And and so, first things first, your family is your family.

They are never changing because people only change when they're ready to change for themselves.

And no amount of judgment, in fact, having opinions and judgments about who people are, who you wish they were, only makes people feel judged.

and they become more entrenched in who they are

and then it's a push away.

Yes.

And the other thing that I noticed because I will just I just want to normalize something.

I think we have families because you know families are a beautiful thing but they also teach you how to love people you hate sometimes.

That's also why marriages are a really incredible thing because you can love somebody deeply and just hate them

in the moment.

And and so two things can be true at once.

And and every single one of us has somebody in our life that we just wish we could be closer to, but for whatever reason, the dynamic is very challenging.

There's a mismatch.

There's frustration that you don't understand why it can't be easier.

You wish it could be easier.

You're grieving the idea that that there's something that you can't quite get to.

Yes.

And imagine a world where they are too.

What happens is as you're driving to see your family, you now you have expectations.

You're gripping.

You wish it were different and you're bringing that into the experience.

You will experience this completely differently if you are choosing.

And let's start there.

If you hate your family that much or they are that abusive or discriminatory or whatever, then don't go.

So, first of all, if you're choosing to go, it tells me that you value family.

Yeah.

We all like go and we're with our family and we have this fantasy in our mind of how we wish it would go.

This is going to help you be in the reality of where it is and to not allow the things that you wish were different to really upset you.

It's radical acceptance.

So, as you're driving, you're just going to go, "Okay, I'm just going to let my mom be my mom.

I'm going to let my dad be my dad.

I'm going to let my uncle do this uncle thing."

And then you're not going to bring your mess into the mess and and add fuel to the fire.

Yes.

Because you're bringing a wish that people were different.

Yeah.

If you bring the let them theory, you're you're walking in with eyes wide open fully accepting the situation as it is.

And if you walk in going, I know my brother-in-law has narcissistic tendencies.

Let him.

Yeah.

Why is it my job to parent this dude?

Yeah.

Why do I let him get me upset?

And then you go, let me let me remind myself.

You get to choose what you think.

You get to choose what you do or don't do.

That's kind of leading into my next question though because maybe you do set these boundaries either with yourself or verbally with the people that you know you kind of tend to bump heads with, but then maybe somebody crosses a line and

let them

totally right.

You're like, "Okay, that's their stuff and that's just on them."

But what if you're still having trouble moving through the escalation in that moment?

Okay.

Well, then I would walk.

So, great question.

You can't control if somebody else is a jerk.

You can't control if somebody gets off on escalating things.

You know those people that just love to poke and turn.

Okay, great.

Let them.

And now you're going to do the let me part.

In any situation like that, it's all about attention.

Every single expert that studies narcissisms recommends that we do something called gray rocking,

which means you basically become as boring as a gray rock.

That's so good.

It's so good.

That's the let me part.

Let me remind myself not every conversation deserves a response.

Let me remind myself this idiot does not have to occupy space in my brain or my nervous system.

Let him have his opinion.

Let me say I just see the facts differently.

I'm going to go help mom with the uh chicken.

And you just remove yourself.

You remove yourself.

That's it.

That's it.

You can leave any dinner table, any text chain, any conversation, any date, any interview, any job, anytime you choose.

The people that are challenging, we give them all the power because we tiptoe around, we navigate, we brace, we engage.

Imagine a world where you are so solid in your own nervous system.

You see people for who they are.

Cuz people are not confusing.

By the way, people are very black and white.

If you watch somebody's behavior, you know exactly who they are and where you stand.

You can see it coming a mile away.

We confuse ourselves because we're upstairs in our head wishing they wouldn't do that and I can't believe this is happening again and why can't we all just get along?

We've never gotten along.

Let them is so important because you're not allowing somebody to escalate.

You're not allowing somebody to disrespect you.

You're forcing yourself to recognize it and you choose how you respond to it.

That's where your power is.

And what I've discovered is that, you know, every one of us has people that are very challenging in our lives.

And it may be very convenient for a social media influencer to tell you just cut everybody out.

Life doesn't work that way.

Especially if it's your ex and you have kids together.

If it's a parent and you value family or it's your dad's new wife and you want to see your dad, let her be who she is.

and let me remind myself I want to stay close to my dad.

So, I'm going to go in with the let them theory as a boundary cuz I'm not going to engage in this nonsense with her and I don't have to.

It's hard to do because our emotions are big and we have big opinions about the way that things should go and there's grief to your point.

Yeah.

But this really is going to help you navigate what's in my control and what's not.

And what's never in your control is another human being. how they act, what they believe, you know, how much they drink.

It means that you are recognizing who you're dealing with.

And you get to decide what is worth my time, what is not worth my time, what is worth my energy, what is not worth my energy, what is a relationship that I want to spend more time with, what's a relationship that I want to pull back on.

And one thing we didn't cover, just let your family have their opinions about politics.

Because right now, one of the things that's really important is it's very easy, depending upon how you voted to go, you voted for this,

right?

When somebody feels attacked like that, they double down.

Mhm.

It's only through creating a space for being willing to listen and try to understand a little more about, okay, well, why do you believe that?

That we're going to create the space to be able to talk to each other again.

Because I think it's a collective illusion.

I think it's a collective illusion how far apart you think you are from people.

What do you do if someone says I I it's not I it doesn't feel honest true to myself.

Well, if somebody has opinions or is behind policies that reject your ability to be who you are, that's a completely different thing.

That's discriminatory.

And you have to choose what the boundary is for you.

But what I will tell you is they'll never change their opinion by you ramming your opinion down theirs or you telling them they're wrong.

They change their opinion by having space to have it and watching you have so much grace and so much love.

People come around when they have the space to feel that they have come around on their own.

Can you say that it's okay for us to pick ourselves?

I think I need to hear that from Mel Robbins.

You have to pick yourself.

And this goes back to your values.

If you want to have a connection with somebody that has a very discriminatory or offensive point of view, the only way that you can create a relationship with them and still protect yourself is to let them have that opinion.

Because what the science says is the more you try to force them to change their opinion, the more they start defending their opinion.

And so when you just let them have their opinion and you manage your time and energy around them and you keep showing up with grace, you keep showing up with love, you are grounded and in your body and you are chill.

What happens is your change shifts something.

It's kind of surprising how people change.

We're going to take a quick break and when we're back, we're going to dig even deeper with Mel talking about boundaries, boundary setting, and some of the harsher realities during this time of the year.

Stick around.

Welcome back.

We're here with Mel Robbins.

So, Mel, we want to give you a few hypothetical examples, some real specific ones, and then you just give us your best advice.

Okay.

So, the first scenario, let's say that you're hosting for the holidays.

How would you recommend pacing yourself to avoid burnout?

Because you know when you're hosting you have to think about everything from like the way that your house looks, the food, the relationships, how are you going to facilitate those relationships to make sure that it's like the best outcome possible.

What's your advice?

That sounds like a lot of pressure.

Okay.

Well, first of all, every one of those decisions is about impressing somebody else.

As much as we try, you cannot control somebody else's experience.

And if I don't get the place settings right or if the cranberry thing burns or if I don't get the timing of the turkey and we end up eating two hours late, let people be agitated.

Let them be disappointed.

Let them have their opinions.

Let them let them let them.

Now let me focus on what I really want to do because it means I am doing Thanksgiving or hosting in the way that I want to do it.

That's it.

Like that's it.

You could spend a bazillion dollars.

You could Pinterest out your table.

You could make 17 different things.

You could have party games that we see go viral.

You could have beautiful gifts for everybody.

And somebody at the table is going to lean over and be like, "This turkeyy's really dry."

Yeah.

Let her.

Because you can't control that.

So don't let it bother you.

And by the way, she's entitled to her opinion and it might be dry.

Let her.

Yeah.

And let me remind myself that I'm doing all of this because I just want to put in my best for my family because it matters to me.

Not because I want to impress them, but one of my values is going over and above because that's just one of my love languages.

And if I'm happy with how this looks, then it doesn't matter what everybody else thinks because instead of doing it for them, do it for you.

And this kind of plays with guilt, too.

Like a lot of us bend over backwards for guilt around this time of the year.

Like, oh, I should do this.

I should do that.

Well, here's how you manage guilt.

If somebody's disappointed that you can't make it to both the Friday night thing and the Saturday night thing and the Sunday night thing, let them be disappointed

because let's look at disappointment with family.

It's a beautiful thing.

Like imagine the opposite.

They just don't care.

Thank God she's not coming.

Why are they disappointed that you're not there?

There's love there.

Yes.

And there's an expectation that somebody doesn't know how to manage with their own emotions, so they project it on you.

Correct.

Let them be disappointed.

Your parents, your aunt, your uncle, your grand, they're they're grown-ups.

They can handle disappointment.

You're going to let them be disappointed.

And then you're going to go to the let me part and say, "Well, let me ask you, what do I value?

I really value family.

And I also have had a crazy hectic week at work.

And I am not leaving New York City at 4:00 on Wednesday night to sit in 9 hours of traffic.

So I I'm going to leave on Thursday morning."

And if that means I'm not there Wednesday night, let them be disappointed.

They're disappointed because they love me.

And let me take care of myself and know that we're all going to be okay.

Do you ever think of the let me as the starting point, the way of framing so that

it's a great question.

Nobody's ever asked me that.

I don't think it's possible.

And here's why.

You are so clueless to how much you are navigating your day-to-day life based on the moods, expectations, stress of other people.

And until you start saying the let them part and you put up a boundary and you start to recognize how often other people are occupying space in your mind cuz you're worried about what they think or other people are like stressing you out because you've absorbed their disappointment.

Until you fully detach from that reflexive behavior, you have no clue how much time and energy you have and you have no clue what's possible.

I'm wondering if the let them theory and let them and let me is contingent on knowing at least a little bit who you are.

I think you discover it.

I think you discover it because you can't know who you are if your entire life is organized to please other people.

M you can't the more you create this space and this is the beautiful thing about the let them theory is again you you picked up on it.

Can we start with the let me part cuz I think this is you're exactly right.

People love let them because it's so judgy and other people are so annoying and works immediately.

It it relieves your number one source of stress by teaching you radical acceptance.

Then comes the part the let me part which is okay now how do I show up?

If I can't make my life better by changing everybody else around me, how do I change myself so that my relationships are better?

The more that you use let them, let them have their opinions, let them have their disappointment, let them not understand my dreams, let them not be as supportive as I would like them to be.

Let them be a little cold to the person that I'm dating.

Let them let them. Let them let them let them.

You're creating this beautiful space where you're operating from compassion and acceptance.

You're giving people the dignity of their own experience and you're not getting reactive.

You know, like, "Mom, I I appreciate that, you know, you're disappointed and I'm going to, you know, take off after dinner.

Let me leave."

Like, you you you are in control.

And so, what happens is, and this is what I've discovered in my relationships, the most challenging relationships have become way more peaceful because guess what?

I'm less judgy.

Mel, we usually ask all of our guests one last question.

What's the last thing you bought that you've really loved?

Oh, well, I've bought a ton of things that I really love, but I wore something specifically as a tribute to Wire Cutter.

This is my favorite thing that I own.

Can you describe what we're looking at here?

Yes.

So, what I have is I've got on a belt that I bought on Etsy 10 years ago.

And the belt buckle is a black and white photo of my children,

beautiful,

when they were like eight and seven and two.

I have worn this thing for 10 years on the road and everybody comments on it.

It is the best way to travel with your children.

Travel on the belt.

They're always with you.

Then as a woman, nobody hits on you at a hotel bar if you've got your children on your belt buckle, you know, as you're sitting there having a burger.

And I get so many comments.

It is the coolest thing to h and and as somebody that's traveled a lot from work and as a working mom, it was just a way to just feel like my family was with me when I would be traveling.

And so you can find it anywhere.

It's one of my favorite gifts to give people and I've had this thing for 10 years.

This is Mel Robbins formal pitch to Wire Cutter to make it a pick.

Yeah, you should.

But I don't but I don't know who to pick cuz there's so many people that make them.

I don't know how you navigate that job.

Yeah, exactly.

So, we'll do the leg work.

They're so great.

That's such a cool thing to do for yourself.

Thank you so much, Mel.

I can talk microwave microwaves now.

Yeah, let's talk microwaves.

Let's talk air fryers.

Mel's book, The Let Them Theory, is available wherever you like to buy books.

And that's it for us.

But stay tuned this week to the podcast feed because we've got a special series kicking off on Friday.

And it's all about gifting.

If you're struggling to come up with what to give this holiday season, we got you.

In the first episode, we're going to hear from Wire Cutter staffers about the things they loved the most in 2025.

It's going to be fun.

The Wire Cutter Show is executive produced by me, Rosie Garin, and produced by Abigail Keel.

Engineering support from Mattie Maziello and Nick Pitman.

Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson.

Original music by Dan Powell, Marian Loausano, Alicia Eup, Rowan Nisto, Katherine Anderson, and Diane Wong.

Cliff Levy is Wire Cutter's deputy publisher and general manager.

Ben Fman is Wire Cutters editor and chief.

I'm Kyra Blackwell and I'm Rosie Garin.

Thank you for listening.

Have you ever had an experience where you're standing in a long line at a grocery store?

Gh, it's the worst.

Yeshu.

Okay.

Describe what is happening in your body as you're it's like beep beep. I'm shuffling.

I'm like scared to see somebody going to come open up a new line or something.

Exactly.

I'm maybe muttering because the person in front of me is like every tomato

like the you pick the tomato.

Keep it pushing.

And now I'm annoyed.

Okay.

And why can't we all subscribe to the same laws in society?

And if we all did it then this would all be better.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.