Christine: Yeah, I do some backpacking and carry minimal gear in some context, but I think car camping is all about comfort. There's no reason to rough it out there. You've got a car to do all the work to carry all your stuff. Go crazy.

Christine: I'm Christine Zerclassette.

Kyra: I'm Kyra Blackwell. And you're listening to the Wirecutter Show.

Christine: Hyra, it's us again in the studio. We are approaching kind of a white whale of an episode for us today. It's been a very divisive topic, camping. I am a camper. Our producer Abigail is a camper. We are on team camp. You and Rosie are on team hotel...

Kyra: glamping, you know, at minimum. [laughter]

Christine: But we have decided to enter into the world of camping on this episode and talk about it. Rosie was so afraid she didn't even want to come. No, she didn't want to be here.

Kyra: She's away. [laughter]

Christine: We are reasonable people. We know that people love camping. It's a great hobby or thing to do in your free time. It's just, you know, the barrier to entry seems a little high.

Kyra: Yeah, it's true. I mean there you do have to have like a certain amount of gear and a certain amount of knowledge to to do it. But I do think it's something that a lot of people maybe they've never done it. Maybe they want to bring their family. Maybe they want to experience going out into nature in that way or maybe they used to do it and it's been a while and they're trying to remember how to do it. So we are going to talk today about car camping, getting into car camping. For people who aren't really familiar with camping lingo,

Christine: me,

Kyra: this is basically where you drive to a campsite. You are going to bring your car and carry all your gear in your cart. It is sort of the entry point to camping. If you are a backpacker, a serious serious outdoor nerd, this might not be the episode for you. But we are definitely going to cover some pretty cool product recommendations in this episode that can make car camping more comfortable, make it more fun for a group, whether that's your family, whether you're going with friends, and a lot of this stuff you can find secondhand, too. So, it doesn't have to be such a huge investment all at once. And we have the perfect expert to talk to us about it today, too. His name is Trey French. He's a staff writer who covers outdoor gear and he's basically reviewed everything from ski gear to hiking poles and he estimates that he spent over 600 nights total either camping from his truck or on backpacking trips. He's like a serious camper.

Christine: Yeah, this is why I love Wire Cutter. We have experts who are writing our guides who are really living the life, you know. So, he's really he lives in California. He is outside all the time. He's testing gear outside and he has a ton of experience with camping. After the break, we're going to catch up with Trey French to talk about the essentials for fun car camping. We'll be right back.

Christine: Welcome back. With us now is Trey French. He's a staff writer covering outdoor gear for Wire Cutter. And the longest he's hiked without sleeping under a roof is about a month. So needless to say, he knows a ton about camping and the gear that will make it more comfortable. Trey, welcome to the show.

Trey: Happy to be here.

Christine: Can we officially call you a mountain man if you sleep out in the woods for a month at a time and and don't go into civilization?

Trey: I humbly accept.

Christine: Okay, great. [laughter] But you spend a lot of time testing gear for wire cutter out in the mountains in California. all over the place. You write a lot of our outdoor gear guides. So, you have a lot of experience, not just in your personal life, but also in terms of reviewing products for people to buy.

Trey: Absolutely. Hiking, skiing, cycling. Yeah, I spend a lot of time outdoors.

Kyra: Living the dream. [laughter] Living the dream. Okay. So, we are going to pepper you with all sorts of questions around camping, but I hear that you brought a quiz to us today to test Kyra and me on our camping knowledge. I think I'm going to do really well on this, Kyra.

Kyra: I'm going to bomb [laughter] and you know it. This is a setup.

Christine: This is totally a setup. Uh, okay, Trey. So, you've got a quiz for us, right?

Trey: I have a few questions for you. Great. So, according to Smokeoky the Bear, who's managed by the US Forest Service, what are the four steps of extinguishing a campfire?

Christine: Oh, the four steps. You're not going to give me an A, B, and C here. I have to come up with that long form. Okay. I would say stomp it out.

Kyra: Maybe like um separate the fire like so that if there's like burning logs still, kind of separate them.

Christine: Okay. Um pour water over it. Pour uh two more.

Kyra: Two more. [laughter] Okay. Tell us. You you got to just reveal.

Trey: Yeah. So, you're on you're totally on the right track. It's drown with water, stir with a stick, drown again, and feel.

Christine: Ooh.

Trey: And then you do this as many times as you need to until there's no heat and no smoke coming from a campfire.

Christine: Okay. So, drown, stir, drown, feel, and then repeat as necessary. And repeat wash and wear. Okay, that's that's good. I'm going to remember that one and I'm going to take it to my next camping trip. All right. Next.

Trey: So, according to the national park visitation report for 2025, what was the most visited national park in the United States?

Christine: Oo, that's what I thought. But it's the Great Smoky Mountain National Park in Tennessee.

Kyra: Wow.

Trey: It's in eastern Tennessee. Apparently, it's within a day's drive of more than half of the US population.

Christine: Wow. Okay. Pretty cool. Okay. Next.

Trey: All right. Last question. Can you define what cowboy camping is? Uh,

Kyra: when you bring cool boots, [laughter]

Christine: when you cook beans over the fire in some kind of like cowboyes cast iron skillet or something like that.

Kyra: You're starting with a stick. [laughter]

Trey: Yeah, these are much better answers. Uh, but it's sleeping without a shelter out in the open.

Christine: Oh, that makes [laughter]

Trey: Yeah, but it's an acquired taste.

Christine: Do you like to cowboy camp?

Trey: Absolutely. If I don't think it's going to rain, I typically will not put up a shelter.

Christine: When we started talking about this episode in car camping, I was like, "Oh, cool." Like, you sleep in your car. You get to have a locked door. That's cool. But that's not actually what car camping is, right, Trey? Like, what is it? And why do a lot of people start there?

Trey: Sure. Well, sleeping in your car could be car camping technically, but it could be quite difficult for most of us to make our car work for us to sleep in comfortably. And so I think for most of us, sleeping in the tent is the way to go compared to like backpacking and other forms of camping. It just requires the fewest expenses. It it doesn't require any technical gear or really any technical skills to get started. There's also facilities like bathrooms and showers available, so you don't have to rough it uh in that way. [laughter] I think having other people around and having these uh facilities that are a little bit closer to sitting at home make it just less scary.

Kyra: And if it is scary, you can just leave. Your [laughter] car is right there. [gasps]

Trey: I think it is also the most conducive camping method for glamping. So, where you can kind of make it a little fancier and more comfortable and bring some of the creature comforts from home.

Kyra: So, you can bring like your favorite pillow, pack it in the car, all your favorite things.

Christine: Yeah, absolutely. Like Trey, you would probably be horrified by my camping setup. It's so elaborate. [laughter]

Trey: Yeah, I think you would be surprised. Yeah, I do some backpacking and carry minimal gear in some context, but I think car camping is all about comfort. There's no reason to rough it out there. You've got a car to do all the work to carry all your stuff. Go crazy.

Christine: We're going to do the wire cutter part of this now, which is really get into the gear. There are so many things you could buy to go camping, but you probably, if you're just getting into camping or you're just getting back into camping, you're not going to go out and spend all of that money, right? So, Trey, if there were just a limited number of the types of things you should invest in to have a pleasant camping trip, what are those areas that you would recommend focusing on?

Trey: Yeah, there could potentially be lots of gear, but there really doesn't need to be. And I think a way to start is to consider sleep. That's a big one. Staying dry, your tent, maybe some rain gear. And making sure you bring some good tasty food. This shouldn't be MREs and uh camp meals. Bring some good stuff.

Christine: MREs. It's like army food, you know, like like [laughter] imperishable MREs. Yeah. This is for me, I think, why I like car camping is you can you can go kind of big on the food. [laughter]

Kyra: Well, let's take each of these one by one then. And of course, I want to start with sleep because that's my beat and it's my bread and butter. Tell us how people can get better sleep when they're outside in a tent.

Trey: I think number one is a good sleeping pad. Invest in what separates you from the ground. A lot of people, they go camping once and then they don't go back because they sleep so poorly. And when you sleep poorly and it's something new and you're outside and you don't have all the conveniences, it kind of suck. It just it just does. And I think if you can really focus on getting a good night's sleep, the experience is just so much better. When looking at sleeping pads on the market, I like to look for at least 3 in tall, whether that's an inflatable pad or a foam pad. Um, and at least 25 in wide. A lot of camping pads out there, you could just slide right off of them because they're too narrow. just not great. You'll see inflatable foam and hybrid. Hybrid just being combination of foam and inflatable. Hybrid is probably a good middle ground because it balances packability and comfort, so you don't have a huge foam mattress taking up half of your car. We recommend the Therm Moest Luxury Map Sleeping Pad. It's about 200 bucks, so not cheap. It's a hybrid style self-inflating, so when you unroll it, it kind of pulls a bit of air in to do most of the work for you. So, all you have to do is open the valve and blow just a little bit of air in there to kind of fine-tune it to your liking of softness and firmness.

Kyra: And for couples, we recommend the XED Mega Mat Duo. I have only lay this one in an REI in their sitting pad test area, and it's pretty comfortable.

Christine: I have four of them. I have four of them. How much? They are very expensive. Uh, but I'm not made of money. So, I waited until an REI sale. I bought them uh I think they were like 20 to 30% off um during an REI sale. And I will say they have really been the difference between us camping and not camping. I think like I don't think you have to get these ones to make the difference, but they are so comfortable. If you're really wanting to go big, that's that's where I would put the money.

Kyra: I mean, sleep seems like it's the most important thing in life, so might be worth it. I'll also say in this category for people who just go every once in a while, like it's just a once in a while thing. I think of plenty of people use inflatable mattresses and they're totally fine to get by for a night or two here and there. But I do think overall, in my experience, they are just far far less comfortable than designated sleeping mats that have a little foam in them. What do you think are some other options that people might want to consider in this category?

Trey: Definitely don't roll out using a cot to supplement your sleeping pad. I think even if it's for psychological reasons, not sleeping on the ground, it can be great to be elevated, just know that it's out there, um, and it can really improve, uh, your sleep experience. Another thing to consider is your sleeping bag. Uh, you got to have something to keep you warm. I like to sleep when it's warm outside and it's not frigid. I prefer it to be above freezing, but regardless, if it's below 60° or so, you're going to need some sort of uh, bag to keep you warm. And I think one thing people try to do is get a huge sleeping bag, which may not necessarily be a good thing. It's great to have more room, but you've got to think that the way these bags work is they're not producing heat you are. And whatever the insulation in the bag is, it's retaining the heat. So, the more space that you have, the more that you have to heat up. So, be reasonable uh when you're selecting a size. I find that using the manufacturer's sizing guide is usually pretty spot-on, that they're going to incorporate a little bit of space so that you can toss and turn at night, but not being so big that it becomes thermally inefficient.

Christine: I personally think this is an area where you can get by if you already have sleeping bags and you're not sleeping in a super cold environment. But I don't go camping like in freezing temperatures, which I don't think most beginner campers would anyways. But Trey, if somebody is going to go out, they don't have sleeping bags or they want to get better ones, how much do you need to spend on this, what do you think?

Trey: I agree that this is not something you necessarily need to spend a bunch of money on right away, especially if you're camping in warm temperatures. It might be so warm that you don't even need a sleeping bag. Like a couple of blankets could get you by, but I think for sort of an insurance policy of there being a potential cold snap, having a sleeping bag ready is definitely a good idea. But I think 150 to 200 bucks for a summer trip is going to take care of you. Potentially even less. We recommend the REI Co-op Siesta hooded 20. It's got a like a smaller hood. I don't think you need to necessarily use the hood. It's more square than a Mummy, so it's a little less claustrophobic for some people. Maybe feels a little bit more like you're bedding at home. The only other thing to pay attention to is uh the comfort rating. A lot of bags will say that they're 20, but they're actually comfort rated for 30.

Christine: What does that mean exactly? Is that the temperature that they're rated for? Yeah. So, a sitting bag may be advertised to be good down to 20° F. Usually, what that means is you would survive at 20°. So, great. We're not talking about having fun. We're talking about not dying.

Trey: So, don't plan to go camping at 20° if you have a 20° bag because you're going to have a bad time. Yeah. Also, these temperature ratings are usually assuming that you're wearing a set of base layers. So, a top, bottom, and a pair of socks. Wear socks. Can't think. I don't care if you sleep without socks at home.

Christine: I have to sleep with socks every night or I can't go to sleep even in the summer. I like marino wool socks for camping. You can just wear your regular cotton clothes camping. Not a big deal. But when it comes to socks, bring some good socks.

Kyra: All right, let's get to the shelter part, staying dry. Uh, you know, I've been on a lot of rainy camping trips. What should people be focused on in in this category of staying dry?

Trey: Yeah. Well, you're going to be spending a lot of time overall in the trip inside your tent at night, hanging out. If it does rain or if it is really windy, it's really awesome to have a good tent. You'll see often in product reviews that the tent flies, which is kind of a rain cover for your tent, it'll have vestibules on each side for like gear storage outside of the tent. And often times these are angled, the fabric is angled too far horizontally, too far out and not down enough. And so what happens is if it's a windy and rainy night, wind can blow that rain in. This is usually called out in product reviews, but so you want a rainfly that's big enough. Having a couple of doors at least in the tent is nice so you're not crawling over your tent mates. If you just have one entry and exit, anyone that has to get up to go to the bathroom in the night is going to wake everyone else up because there's no way around sort of crawling over your buddies. I think the biggest one maybe is buy a tent size for at least one additional person than will be sleeping in it. So, if you have three people sleeping in a tent or expected to buy a fourperson, they give these ratings to give you an idea of what you could technically stuff into a tent. Um, but you're all going to be shoulderto-shoulder and there's not going to be any room for movement or your gear size up here. And how much would you expect to spend on a really nice tent? 250 to 350, maybe four is what you're going to see for a tent that you can count on.

Kyra: What about a rain jacket? Do you need to have like a really good rain jacket to go camping or can you get by with something less expensive?

Trey: Yeah. Don't go crazy here. If you go on an outdoor website like REI, you're going to see a lot of really expensive techy rain jackets and they're great, but a lot of the expense from a quote good rain jacket comes from the breathability and waterproofing. You really don't need the breathability for car camping unless you're going on really intensive hikes or something like that, but probably just use whatever you have and bring an umbrella and you're probably going to be okay. If you don't have any rain jacket, you can even get by with a poncho. If you're trying to cook with them and do a lot of tasks, they're not the best. But if you just need to stay dry as you're walking to and from your tent, they're going to absolutely do the job. So, don't go crazy with a rain jacket. Yeah, camping sounds fun when it's really perfect weather and you have nice gear and stuff, but when you're setting up in the rain and you're slogging through it and

Christine: Well, maybe that's a good that's a good point. Like [laughter] Trey, what is the cut off? When when should you just call it quits? Call it quits and go home.

Trey: Yeah, if I'm looking at the forecast and it's a 20% chance of rain, I'm going. But if it looks like it's going to be dumping every day, just call the trip off. I love bailing on trips. If the weather is not up to my liking, no shame. Yeah, I don't mean to paint the picture of that it's going to be a lot of suffering because most likely it's going to be great.

Kaylee Thompson: Hi, this is Kaylee Thompson. I'm a senior editor at Wire Cutter covering baby and kid. And one item that I loved to bring on camping trips with my kids is a little bug catcher called the Carson Bug View. It cost about $12 and it lets you slide a little platform underneath the bug, use a magnifying glass to get a closer look. And this is a really fun thing for just exploring nature, but also for removing daddy longlegs, spiders, beetles, all kinds of cool little critters that you might find inside your tent.

Claire Wilcox: Hey, I'm Claire Wilcox. I cover outdoors and travel here at Wire Cutter. And one of my favorite items that has really transformed my own camping experience is a camping quilt. Instead of a sleeping bag, I use a camping quilt, which looks a lot like a sleeping bag, but it just doesn't have a hood. It doesn't have zippers, and it doesn't wrap around your whole body. It's more like a duvet with a foot box. As a stomach sleeper, I always struggled a little bit to get a good night's sleep in a sleeping bag. And when I started camping a lot with my partner, we wanted like a cozy and comfortable option for sleeping together that wasn't a double bag. So, we ended up getting a double quilt. It feels just like sleeping under a duvet and you can move around a lot more and, you know, stick a leg out or, you know, adjust for temperature as needed.

Abigail Keel: Hi, this is Abigail Keiel. I'm the producer of the Wire Cutter Show. I love camping because you get to sleep outside, see the stars, feel the breeze, but sometimes the weather doesn't cooperate. So, what I like to do to kind of mitigate the risk is I secure my rainfly on the outside of my tent, but only on two corners. And then I roll the rainfly up and leave it just sitting there next to the tent overnight. That way, I get to see the stars, enjoy the breeze. But if in the middle of the night the wind picks up or rain starts to fall, then I just dart out of my tent, take that fly, whip it over the whole top of the tent, and secure the other two corners and dive back in the tent.

Kyle Fitzgerald: I'm Kyle Fitzgerald, a writer on the outdoors and travel team. And one very simple and easy to get item that I always bring car camping is a tablecloth. I personally have a thick cotton tablecloth. And the tablecloth for me does two basic things. Covers up all the gross crusties on the picnic table. You know, makes you forget that a million people have been there before you. And two, it just really classes up the joint.

Rachel Hearn: Hi, this is Rachel Hearn. I'm on the baby and kid team at Wire Cutter and I feel that there's nothing worse than not being able to light your campfire. So, I always bring lightning nugget fire starters, which I get at REI. And each of these little semicircles burn for 15 minutes, which gives you enough time to slowly add smaller pieces of wood and then larger pieces of wood.

Anmarie Kay: Hello, I'm Anmarie Ki. I'm deputy editor at Wire Cutter. And my best camping tip for new and experienced campers alike is to find a gear head and befriend them and borrow their stuff. It's a really great way to try out stuff that is new to you. I used to be a light gear backpacking minimalist and I am now a car camping maximalist.

Trey: Well, I work among so many pros. I really like the the tablecloth recommendation. I always forget a tablecloth when I go camping and I always see people with a tablecloth and I know they really have it together. If you want to just signal that you have it together, get a tablecloth. I do have one that I wanted to share. Last year I got some LED string lights. They are battery operated, so I hang them inside my tent. It's lovely. And it provides kind of like these fairy lights that are they're sort of magical.

Christine: Let's get into this last category, food. This is where I focus on when I'm camping. It's kind of entertainment. what is how do you how do you approach cooking on camping trips?

Trey: Uh the minimalist is a fair assessment in some regard, but when it comes to food and car camping, I think it's great to go big, especially if you're willing to put in the time and effort. Good food can really help everyone reset if someone's just not feeling well or didn't sleep well or isn't having the best time. For me, I only get the stove out for dinner. I think it's easy to eat well and keep breakfast and lunch pretty simple.

Christine: What are the things though that you do think are worth investing in specifically for camping?

Trey: I think you'll need a camp stove. If you do need to buy one, there is the classic Coleman stove. This is been the standard for a long time. It will function like a grill that you might have at home just in a smaller version. In addition to the camp stove, you will need some source of propane fuel.

Christine: Are there any other things that you think you need to specifically buy for camping? And then what are the things that you could just bring from home?

Trey: Maybe some just non-breakable plates and bowls. Uh you don't have to go crazy here. I use enameled steel. I would not spend on the fancy kitchen cook sets. There are tons of those out there and they're are so expensive, but I would put this at the bottom of your list as a priority um for camping cuz you can just bring stuff from your kitchen, right? Absolutely. This is the probably the best place to repurpose things that you already own for camping. Um I usually will bring a cast iron pan and a larger pot uh for boiling water.

Kyra: How do you like to make coffee?

Trey: I use the Aerop Press. Uh it's small and uh I think it produces a pretty good tasting coffee. Um but sometimes if I'm camping um in anticipation of an early morning hike, I might go for instant just to save some time. And there are some great instant coffees out there these days.

Christine: So, there usually is a spigot and it might be next to a dishwashing station, but that does bring up a great point that you need a way to store some water. And we recommend the Reliance 4gallon Aquaer. It's about 20 bucks. I think 4 to 5 gall is a good capacity. It's not so much that it's cumbersome and heavy to carry from your car to the camp table, but it will last you, you know, most of a day without having to make too many trips to the spigot to refill.

Trey: And I would say one thing that people don't think about is the clothes that they're wearing when they're cooking. If you're cooking with something greasy and there's a little bit of wind, uh you can end up with some grease on your clothing. So, I think an apron is a good idea to have on hand or just have a dedicated old jacket or shirt that you're going to wear. On a recent camping trip, my partner had just gotten a new down jacket and uh just wasn't thinking about it and ended up with a lot of uh grease speckles on.

Christine: Well, before we wrap, Trey, we ask all of our guests one final question. What's the last thing you bought that you really loved?

Trey: I'm a skier and I added another pair this year and I think they were so worth it. We have not had the best year of snow where I live. The snow has been firm and icy. I bought them and I love them and I have no regrets. They are made by Blizzard. They're called the Blizzard Anomaly 88s. Uh, so a little bit narrower and a little bit more stiff than the other skis that I have.

Kyra: I definitely learned what car camping is first and foremost and that it's pretty much the simplest, easiest, most affordable way to really connect with nature, which seems really cool. And you don't need a lot of stuff. You can just bring stuff from home cuz you're packing it in your car.

Christine: I will tell you that I have a bunch of really great camping gear and I got most of it off of Craigslist and most of it came from one person who really wanted to start camping with their family and they went out to REI and bought a whole bunch of stuff and they went camping twice and the spouse didn't love it and they ended up needing to sell it. Go once like beg borrow some gear try it out and then decide what you want to invest in go from there focus on a tent a pad a sleeping pad Yes, I would say the pad is the most important thing for me.

Kyra: And get that tablecloth because you don't want to look like, you know, like you've never been there before. Yeah, that's right. You want to look like [laughter] an expert.

Christine: Well, if you are curious about anything we talked about in this episode, definitely check out our show notes. We've got links to all of the gear we recommend in this episode. A lot of links to guides that we have to different camping gear. Don't be afraid. Just just get in there and check it out. We will be back next week. Thanks for listening.