Welcome everyone to the OnPy podcast.

I'm Steve Pen

and I'm John Michael McGrath.

Today on the pod, the OP has delivered another lump of coal for the premier right before the holidays, announcing a criminal investigation into a company that secured government contracts, including through the skills development fund.

Ontario's big city mayors have asked the province to declare a state of emergency surrounding homelessness and drug use.

We'll review a bevy of transportation items from the new French West LRT in the capital city. And sticking with transportation in your column, my column, I'll look at the need for new rules around ebikes in [music] Ontario.

And I've got a piece on an organization in Hamilton that is trying to get men to turn their backs on alcohol and drug addiction and get back on the path to a better life. Plus, just for a little end of the year fun, we'll bring you the OnP Quiz Show to test your knowledge of all things Ontario. It's Friday, December 12th, 2025. [music] So, let's get to it.

JMM a little sugar to start things off.

Always.

This is our last show of calendar 2025.

Yes. Where did the year go?

Are you going to miss me? That's what I'm wondering.

Well, I I'm going to spend a lot of time trying not to think about work over the next few weeks.

That's probably wise.

As will I. As will I. Now, in the meantime, let's do our weekly t-shirt check-in. Yes,

because you seem to have now I've seen this t-shirt before. Yes.

You've got aliens on your front and

axelottals.

Axelottals.

Not not aliens. A type of amphibian native to Mexico. Um that was very very popular with kids a year or two ago now.

And it's evocative of the TVO slogan which is never stop learning.

Yes.

And this one says never stop wondering.

Never stop wondering. And then at the bottom and I'm not sure if the

Yeah. Yeah. Excellental questions.

Axelottal questions. And because we have the quiz show coming up uh at the uh end of the

show, I thought ask a lot of questions.

Makes perfect sense. Now, I like this choice because usually the choice of t-shirt you pick to wear for this has absolutely nothing relevant to do with anything happening in the world at that time. Unlike me, so that one does. Congratulations. Good choice. Unlike me, I try to wear something every week that has some relevance to what's going on in history. And on this date, here we go. On this date in 1812, so we're talking 213 years ago, our first premier was born. This is December 12th, 1812. Our first premier since Confederation, I should say. So, our first premier when Canada became Canada in 1867. His name was John Sanfield Macdonald. This is a hell of a coincidence, eh? Our first prime minister was John Alexander McDonald. Our first premier in Ontario was John Sanfield McDonald. served from 1867 to 1871. But of course, one of the reasons he got that job was he was very well known in politics before Canada became Canada. So he served in all of the eight assemblies when we were the province of Canada prior to confederation and he's the only politician to have done that. I guess by today's nomenclature we would consider him a conservative but back then the party was actually called the liberal conservative party [laughter] which is a bit like the progressive conservative party you know it's the same idea it's moderate pragmatic middle-of the-road conservatism he represented Cornwall in the Ontario legislature and he had a very sad premature death he died at the age of 59 from kidney disease he is buried at St. Andrew Cemetery in South Stormmont in Eastern Ontario someday.

Not buried in Mount Pleasant cemetery.

He is not. No, this will be one of the few who's not buried in Mount Pleasant. That's right. Uh so I have not been to his cemetery, but it is on my bucket list to get there someday.

Uh if you know Queens Park, as I know you do,

we have the Heper block. We have the Mow block. We have the Ferguson block down at Queens Park. We also have the McDonald block. And a lot of people get confused. The McDonald block at Queens Park is not named after Sir John A. It's the first prime minister. It's after Sir John S. the first premier. And just to show you what a fun dad I am, [laughter] I occasionally, when they were much younger, used to take my kids to Queens Park and show them all the statues. Sheldon, can we see a picture, please? This is a picture of a bunch of my kids. And I think there's one girlfriend in there as well from one of the kids who is now, I'm happy to say, the fiance of one of the kids. So, this is lovely. Congratulations. There's a statue of John Sanfield McDonald right in front of the Ontario legislature. One of the reasons I wanted to show this statue, it was unveiled in 1909. It was sculpted by Walter Ol who people may remember did the fabulous Vimemy memorial.

Right.

This is Mother Canada or Canada Bereft as it's sometimes called. So he did this sculpture of John S. McDonald as well. So now you know way more about our first premier than you ever wanted to know,

you know. Oh, I got to Sheldon reminds me I got to stand up because I'm wearing the shirt. Here we go. There's Sir John S. looking very regal and fine if I say so myself.

And I have to say, um, you know, if I had ever put the thought into it, I'm sure I I would have actually connected it. But literally, just as we've been talking, it was the first time my brain actually clicked and went, oh, no, of course McDonald block is not named after Sir John A. It's just in Canada if you assume if you see a building named after named McDonald something especially Macdonald

right you you assume

it's John A.

So John A of course and like you no further thought is given and and if I had given it more than a moment's thought I I'm I'm sure I would have gotten there eventually but uh yes I I was today years old when I realized that McDonald Block is named after John S and not John A.

You know I think I'm I I think I'm remembering this correctly. I think I opened the first book I ever wrote by talking about a moment where I was at Queens Park on the main floor and just happened to be in a place where I guess I was probably waiting for some politician to come out of something. I was there was a tour a Queens Park tour came by and the tour guide you know these are all young kids. The tour guide was talking about our first premier Sir John A. McDonald and I walked over to her and very quietly in the hopes of not embarrassing she said ah actually no no that was our first prime minister our first premier in Ontario was John S. McDonald. And I told that story for whatever reason now escapes me. But anyway, just to say you're not the only one who occasionally confuses the two. John S. He's our man. You had enough of John S

for now? Yes.

Okay, let's get on to issue one.

The Ontario Provincial Police are opening a formal investigation into a company called Keel Digital Solutions after a forensic audit. KE is one of the organizations that received money from the province's skills development fund which we have talked about a lot on this podcast of late because it has been controversial and newsworthy. What's this one about?

So we should note off the top that this is an investigation is separate from the money that the organization received from the skills development fund although they did receive substantial money from uh that fund. Um but that is not the uh specific subject of this investigation. uh rather the ministry of colleges and universities paid Keel Digital about $32 million to provide a mental health platform for postsecary students. Uh that was called uh get ahead. Uh it is now called Keel Mind. Um a routine audit internal to the government. So this is not like the auditor general investigating this. This is what we've talked about before that the government routinely does its own uh auditing of these kinds of grants. Uh the government says it identified irregularities in the company back in 2023. The government referred this matter to the OP. Uh the OP has in turn started a criminal investigation with the uh anti-rac branch.

We I think are obliged to say at this moment that investigators of course investigate and nothing has been proven. The company is considered innocent until proven otherwise.

Has not formally been charged with anything. Right. Yes.

Right. Yes. Exactly. Right. So we're we're at the investigation stage of things. What's the company got to say for itself? Well, they of course say that they have complied with all laws and the the stipulations of their contracts with the government. Uh they have said in public statements that they think they're being um scapegoed by uh the government, that they received a clean audit from uh the government when they uh were first investigated, that there were no red flags raised uh preventing the government from uh providing uh further money to them. uh they have suggested that the government is looking for a distraction what uh reporters would sometimes call a channel changer in this line of work. uh the KE have said you know they want to see the government actually release that audit uh saying you know if this is made public then people will see that uh they were in fact cleared right that's the only reason you would ask for this kind of audit to be made public um we have not seen uh that document uh we may never see that document the government is not obliged to make it public I guess they would make it public in the context of an actual criminal investigation this is the kind of thing that ke could could introduce into court but um we have not seen it yet and depending on how this proceeds we might never.

Now, does the actual skills development fund fit into this story in some way?

It's sort of adjacent to it if I could put it this way. We we've spoken about this quite a bit on the podcast. Uh Labor Minister David Pacini had gone to a wedding in uh Paris, France for a lobbyist that the company had hired. So, Kil Digital hired the lobbyist and Pacini went to a wedding with the lobbyist. Um he had also gone to a uh Maple Leafs game with the company's director. Uh this relationship between the labor minister and the people uh involved in this company uh has uh as you might imagine quickly become a talking point, a bit of a punching bag for uh opposition parties uh at the legislature. The leader of the official opposition uh Marat Styles has repeatedly called for Pacini to either resign or be fired uh from his position. He is not going anywhere of zone valition and so far neither the premier has not made any moves to remove him either. Uh so yeah, we will keep watching.

I got a feeling this is not the last time we're going to be talking about this story.

Uh I suspect not. I think this is going to keep bubbling away unless there's a cabinet shuffle in the offing.

There we go. And with that, we're off to issue two.

Ontario's towns and cities are at the sharp end of the homelessness crisis in the province. Whether it's lengthy and visible encampments in parks and other public spaces or increasingly public drug use, it's municipalities that are on the front lines of providing services and addressing local complaints. Municipal leaders have spent the last two years asking for provincial help. And last week they went further. JMM, the latest if you would.

Right. The Ontario Big City Mayors is a group representing the leadership of every municipality with a population over 100,000. uh they collectively represent 70% of Ontario's population and after their meeting last Friday they asked the province to declare a state of emergency to address homelessness caused by addiction and mental health uh that they say has caused a public safety and humanitarian crisis across the province. Now obviously the big city mayors uh represent big cities but uh they also secured support from groups that represent smaller municipalities across the province as well including the wardens caucuses from both eastern and southwestern Ontario. And if people are not familiar, a warden is uh a the the equivalent of a mayor, but for more rural counties, for example. Uh so all in all, this is a really concerted push we're seeing across both big and small municipalities to address the uh homelessness and mental health file uh more aggressively so far than we've seen from the province.

Yeah, this is not just a Toronto, Ottawa story. This is a story that sadly uh is in all parts of the province of Ontario. In which case, what has the province done to address these concerns? So we uh can recall earlier this year uh during the spring sitting of the legislature immediately after the election the government reintroduced the safer municipalities act. Uh this created a provincial offense for anyone consuming illegal drugs in a public place. Uh that would have be you know on top of the actual uh criminal charge potentially of uh uh illegal drug use. It also uh modified the trespass to property act to make it an aggravating factor in sentencing uh someone if uh they had ignored a municipality's trespass order for more than 24 hours. So the the law did some things um but that that's been the the biggest uh change the government has made this year.

Obviously more to do

right. Yes. Um, you know, we can recall that, uh, earlier this year, another issue that was being discussed, some mayors, mostly, but not all. I think we could fairly describe them as conservativeleaning mayors. Uh, municipal politics are nominally nonpartisan. Um, these mayors wanted the province to actually uh pass tougher legislation and invoke the notwithstanding clause to give municipalities the power to, for example, clear encampments. Um, and that might sound extreme to our audience, but the reason the mayors were asking for it, uh, regardless of what you think of the the proposed solution there, um, courts in Ontario have found that clearing encampments without providing reasonable alternative uh, shelters, uh, shelter spaces or supportive housing, uh, does engage people's charter rights. And the Ontario Court of Appeal is currently in the process of hearing uh, an appeal of a case actually from Hamilton uh, on this issue. But the hearing has not happened yet. The decision will not be out until next year at the earliest. So, and then of course that's just the Ontario Court of Appeal. Uh any decision from that court could then subsequently be appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada. So, municipalities feel like they're in a bit of limbo, right? I've spoken to municipal leaders this year who say, and I will say this comes from both ends of the political spectrum, there is just a genuine confusion about what they are allowed to do. uh how how much leeway they have in terms of uh dealing with the homelessness crisis. And obviously they can't just sort of whip the appropriate shelter spaces together out of nothing, right? Um so if the province were to come forward with more shelter money and and I should be fair that the province has uh uh proposed funds uh to to make it easier and faster to build shelter spaces, but obviously not enough. Uh which of course brings us just back to the question of of more aggressive provincial action. Well, and that could include, I suppose, declaring a state of emergency here, which would unlock a bunch of other options that would allow municipalities and presumably the province to do more. Beyond that, what specifics are the big city mayors looking for?

Yeah. So, actually, you do make a good point there that the um the declaration of a state of emergency um is is not sort of purely ceremonial. It does actually allow mayors and councils to um get around some normal procedural uh steps when they want to take action. um you know, we see this whenever, we'll probably see it a few times this winter uh in in areas around the province. Uh but the other things that they are asking for um they asked for the province to put together an immediate winter response plan. Obviously, uh homelessness becomes a particular concern uh in uh Canadian winters. Uh it is just a sad reality that in Toronto um pretty consistently at least one homeless person dies in the winter. Um the and we've seen the weather this week. I I I'm worried about that.

I I don't know about you, but when I walked to work today, it was - 9 outside. Yeah. And I would not want to be outdoors sleeping. Yeah.

Unsheltered. Exactly.

Yeah. Um the uh the big city mayors are also asking for an increased investment in uh mental health treatment and additional new heart hubs. These were the uh uh drug treatment centers that the province offered as an alternative to the uh safe conception uh sites that they uh began shutting down this year. You know, I'm going to I'm going to recall something that took place. It was a debate that took place during the 2002 Ontario Progressive Conservative Leadership Race. And this was the one that Ernie Ees won, defeating Jim Flity, I think, on the third ballot. But any maybe it was only two ballots. Anyway,

don't get into the weeds, Pacin. Just make your point. And the point was that Jim, we were having these debates almost a quarter century ago as uh homelessness was becoming an apparent problem uh or a more abundantly obvious problem, let's put it that way. And Jim Flity uh in his leadership bid put forward the idea that he said I want to take a compassionate approach to this and I don't think it's compassionate that if we run out of shelter space we allow people to freeze to death outdoors in sub-zero conditions.

And in fact he said I would even open up the jails and house people in jails if there are you know spaces available there.

That's a more compassionate thing to do

than to allow people to freeze to death.

Yes. and all the other candidates kind of jumped down his throat saying, "Oh my god, you're criminalizing homelessness and that kind of thing." But here we are, what is it, 23 years later, almost 24 years later from that leadership contest in which Mr. Flity put forward that idea.

Well, I will also uh bring a a 20 plus year old story in uh people might recall when Jack Leighton first became leader of the federal NDP uh in that first election cycle uh that he ran against Paul Martin. So I guess that would have been 2004. Um he uh accused Paul Martin of being at least partly responsible uh for the uh what now seems kind of quaint uh homelessness uh crisis in Toronto at the time. And and in fact, I think he accused Paul Martin of being responsible for for deaths of uh uh homeless people because of the uh cuts to transfer payments that the Liberal government had made through the 1990s. And again, that was a uh perhaps an inflammatory charge. Um and and Leighton defended it and there was all sorts of debate about that point. Uh but again, here we are in 2025. Uh Leighton's widow, Olivia Chow, is now mayor of Toronto and she is in the position of of begging a federal Liberal government for uh increased support for among other things shelter services to deal with a homelessness crisis in Toronto.

On your bad days, you can despair at how little changes. I know things there is progress out there, but on your bad days, on your saddest days, you can despair that not enough is happening.

Sundays, the optimism is hard.

There you go. And with that, we're off to issue three.

Last weekend, the Finch West Light Rail Transit Line officially opened its doors and became the first line to open in the city of Toronto in more than two decades. Riders lined up to give a new line a new try and discovered that it was actually slower than taking the bus. They got some bugs to figure out still, eh?

Uh, yes. So, according to some reporting from the CBC, it took one of their reporters about 55 minutes to go from Finch West to Humber College, which is about a 10 km route. Uh, I did love this CBC reporting that uh four or 500 cont uh participants in the Toronto Marathon uh scored a better time in a 10 km run uh than the Finch West LRT. Uh so, yes, there's a 10 km route. We have a map of it that we I believe we can put up. Uh the trip uh going the opposite direction uh going east is apparently uh a bit faster.

Uh this is a brand new provinially funded transportation line. So obviously transportation minister Premiaria got a bit of uh questioning about how it is possible to spend uh a billion plus dollars on a light rail line that is slow at times slower than the bus it replaced. Uh Saraya is aware of the complaints. He says that uh by the I believe by the spring they're hoping to increase the speed, increase the tempo. The uh idea is that they are still you know working the bugs out and they it's also uh I think the weather is maybe a bit worse than they were hoping for for opening week. So they want to be very careful uh when they're starting things off. Um and then as everybody gets used to its operations, including like drivers have to get used to the operations of the LRT. Uh, and once things settle down, they're hoping to be uh, I I think about 10 or 15 minutes faster uh, by spring.

I haven't been on the line yet, but I have to imagine that that notwithstanding the time problems, it's still a more comfortable, dare I say, luxurious ride on the LRT than it would be on the bus, which are almost always packed on Finch and therefore you're lucky to get a seat and

okay, so they're going to work some bug bugs out, but what's the problem so far? Well, so one of the big issues seems to be the issue of what we call transit signal priority, right? Like when the LRT uh when the the train itself comes up to the traffic lights, does it have to stop at a red or uh is there a way to give it a a green in advance so it can just go through the intersection? This is a very common practice in uh many other cities around the world. And I I I love my city for all of the things it has given me, but man, we have a hard time adopting best practices from other parts of the world.

Um, Toronto mayor Olivia Chow uh has said that uh she will be putting forward a motion. In fact, the uh uh next city council meeting agenda went online just before we started taping. And I can confirm there is a motion on the next city council agenda to address this issue to get the TTC to uh give the uh trains uh what you might call proper or bare minimum transit signal priority. Um and if possible to remove some of the speed caps. Uh believe it or not, uh there there seems to be a concern that uh the train might go too quickly. Uh like we might get riders to where their destination too fast if we uh uh get too crazy with this trial the transit signal priority thing. So, uh, yeah, trains are reportedly running an average of 13 and a half kilometers per hour, which, um, if you've been and like I'm getting to the point in my career where it's like, oh god, I actually covered these council meetings back in like 2010, 2011 when it was Rob Ford uh, arguing about the fate of of LRT. Um, at the time we were promised as as transit riders and and uh, you know, residents of the city, we were promised that the the LRT would travel about 20 km an hour. It is currently doing about 13 and a half. So just to meet what was promised, uh it's got to get a bit better.

Still a ways to go. Uh you know, there always are growing pains and I hasten to add now those of those viewers or listeners who are in the Ottawa region in the National Capital Region will well remember the growing pains with the LRT when that went open many years ago. And it's still not well maybe nothing's 100% but there's still I think high 90s I think mid to high 90s for uh efficiency on that LRT line. So growing pains here.

Yes. I mean some of this certainly is just you know as we say they are just working the bugs out of an early um uh early operations. Uh line six is the the formal name for the Finch West LRT. They they say they are operating under soft opening conditions. They're being cautious. Uh the last thing, you know, you mentioned Ottawa where there was a derailment. The last things that either the TTC or the province wants is a derailment uh particularly in winter uh snow conditions. We will see if line six gets faster. I am going to try and keep my optimism that it will in fact improve substantially. Um you know we will see uh that also whether the lessons of the Finch West line can then be uh brought over to the uh Egllandon cross town which I don't need to remind our listeners is as we tape this still not open. I'm glad you raised that cuz if you didn't, I was going to. And that is uh I guess our friends at Global News reported this week that the city of Toronto and the province of Ontario are into a bit of a I won't use the word because this is a family show, but a a word that starts with P and ends with contest [laughter] over when this LRT, the Egllandon cross town, which is about a 100 meters north of where we are right now, when this thing will actually open. It's only what how many years behind schedule and how many billions over budget? I'm just you're I'm I refuse to get sad this close to the holidays. Um so yes, there is a disagreement between uh the city and the province. Now the province just recently handed the cross town over to the city after uh lengthy testing. Um the the province wants the LRT to open by end of December, global reports. Uh and the city says that is too soon to guarantee passenger safety. They want to open early February instead. Now, in these kinds of disputes, I would normally assume that the province is going to get what it wants, right? At the end of the day, the province has the the the the hammer [laughter] to hit the city with. Um, but the key point to remember here is that while the province owns the Egllandon cross town, they have given the job of operating it to uh the city to the TTC. The TTC believes they don't have the time before the end of December to hammer out any kind of remaining uh technical fixes. Uh, and you know, like I imagine, you know, the TTC also has to accommodate things like workers taking time off during the holidays, right? Like this is not a great time to try to be rushing uh the reopening.

And I do really want to emphasize that

Toronto has not been in control of this timeline for the past decade. The province of Ontario has been in control of this timeline until last week, right?

Metroinks.

Yeah. Metroinks, the Ministry of Transportation, right? until very very recently, the city just did not have the kind of leverage to keep this thing on uh uh on time and on budget. So, it's it's it's a bit rich for the province to now be saying like, "What's taking so long?" [laughter]

Now, this is where I jump in and I say, "Anything else?"

I I cannot resist this little bit of of historical uh kismmet or whatever. Um the TTC is apparently looking to open the cross town on February 8th. It would that would make it 14 years to the day after Toronto City Council voted to override Rob Ford and reaffirm their support for light rail. People will recall that immediately after being elected, then Mayor Rob Ford announced that he was killing the entire Transit City plan and they were going to go with subways instead.

No, they were said they were going to go with subways, subways, subways instead.

Indeed. Um and there was a year of chaos and eventually Toronto city council overrode uh the mayor. Um a lot has happened since then. Uh people of Scar Bro have lost uh rapid transit uh lines. Right. The the the SRT does not exist and uh it is unclear when the uh Scar Bro subway extension will actually open. Uh but it would be historically fitting for those of us, as I say, who count who who covered those meetings, who who were in the council chambers when that vote happened. Uh it would be a little bit of uh as I say, kiss it.

February 8th.

February 8th.

We'll put that on our calendar before my birthday, actually.

Oh, is that right? How old are you going to be on Feb 9?

Uh I will be 45.

45. Oh my gosh, I've got socks older than that. [laughter] Anyways, on to your column, my column.

Time now for our regular feature, your column, my column, in which JMM and I have a little chat here about the stuff we wrote for the TVO website over the past week. Start us off, sir.

Uh, so of the two of us, I am obnoxiously the cyclist. [laughter] Um, and uh, I I've been, you know, I've talked about before, I own an ebike and I I not this week because the roads are terrible, but I tend to bike to work, you know, most uh, most of the year, even through the winter when I can. Uh, love my ebike. am an evangelist for ebikes. Uh but uh there was a recent coroner's report which looked into some deaths uh involving ebikes. These are uh cases where ebike riders uh died in the operation of their uh uh chosen vehicles. And um some of these cases obviously when you take a broad statistical look it's it's important not to um overstate the the the minority of cases but a substantial minority of cases seem to be uh and I'm I'm going to try and phrase this neutrally um people with violations of the Highway Traffic Act who uh have lost their license to uh operate uh cars normal cars are choosing to adopt ebikes instead. Um, and I would submit to you that the kind of person who uh loses their license in Ontario for things like impaired driving uh is not a a great candidate for operating an extremely high-powered ebike. [laughter] Um, and and you know, like this Coroners report found that one person um who uh died on an ebike was bragging on Facebook about how they had modified it to get up to extremely high speeds. Um, so

just to step back for a moment, like these are really neat pieces of technology, but precisely because so much is happening so quickly in the electric vehicle space very broadly, you're getting this combination of extremely powerful batteries, extremely powerful motors, and these things that are called ebikes, but functionally have the horsepower of uh very powerful motorcycles. And we need some clarity about the regulations. Um, and I think there's a relatively straightforward principle at least that we can adopt here. Um, you know, the people will disagree on on precisely where to draw the line. But the question fundamentally here is at what point does something go from being a bicycle, which we generally don't license. We don't require you to have insurance. Um, you know, adults in Toronto, for example, are required to wear bike helmets, but relatively minimal requirements. At a certain point, it crosses the line into this is a motor vehicle.

This is a Formula One racing car.

Yeah. And and like, okay, now you've got to get a license. Now you got to get insurance. And and we have to treat you like uh a a a more substantial user of the King's Highways. And as I say, like I am I'm an evangelist for ebikes. In principle, I would love for the government to adopt rules that are a bit more permissive than some of the stuff that is under discussion. But realistically we should also keep in mind that Ontario is probably not going to draw these lines or draw this line or the drop these regulations on its own. There are matters of you know trying to keep regulations harmonized both uh amongst the provinces but also with the federal government and increasingly uh Canada is also looking to keep its regulations harmonized with other major economies like the US like the EU. So we definitely need new rules. I have no idea what those rules are going to look like in the end.

But you don't want to be Mario Andreddy out there is what you're saying.

No, no. I'm qu Look, I'm a middle-aged dad, man. I [laughter] I am not looking to be uh setting any Formula 1 records.

Okay, cool. I want to talk to you about uh some folks that I have met over some volunteering that my dad and I actually do for an organization in Hamilton called Wayside. These are some of the most interesting, extraordinary uh people I've ever met in my life. And I'll tell you for a second here about a guy named Carl whom I met on a walk around the bay. This is the annual fundraiser that they do I think in October for Wayside. And anybody who cares about uh drug addiction, alcohol addiction, uh they come out, we do a walk around the bay, raise a little money to help this organization.

Carl tried a very bad batch of fentinel

because Carl has addiction problems.

Yeah.

And Carl died.

He technically died.

Yeah.

And they tried to You're right. You You hit him right on the head there. His heart stopped. He looked like he was dead. He was turning blue. His drug dealer tried to bring him back by smacking his face. And then they tried giving him CPR and Nlloxxone. And finally, the I guess the combination of all of those things worked and Carl's alive today. And even beyond that, Carl now has a tag that shows how many uh days, months, years he's been sober. He's been drug-free. And I'm extremely proud of him.

Uh it's never a straight line between addiction and your destination of being clean.

And Carl is like many guys who occasionally slip and have to get back on the path. Yeah.

And he has he has got back on the path.

I I I'm betting on him. I'm betting on him. And I'm betting on Patrick, who's another guy I met on this walk, who JMM, I'm telling you, some of these guys come from such hard scrabble backgrounds. you know, from the toughest um, you know, north end of Hamilton where they've been beaten by their parents for much of their lives and they don't know where their next meal is coming from and they haven't got enough education and they're really, I think in many cases doing their best to get by, but it's hard. It's really hard. Anyway, Wayside has a unique approach, I think, to helping get these guys clean. And it's all guys. They only deal with men who of course are disproportionately affected by alcohol and drug addiction. Anyway, uh Wayside has been around for 60 years almost. They've got a small home in Hamilton where they bring these men in who want to get cleaned up. You've got to make the decision that you you've had enough. They bring them in, they get them healthy, they clean them up, they get them into a program, they've got wraparound services, and their success rate is really good. They've just purchased another building in Hamilton which would double their capacity for having people, you know, essentially stay in the home until they are clean and ready to go out. They're they're close by to a hospital so that if there are health issues, you can get into a hospital, get cleaned up, get back out into the community. Um, I'm just uh in awe of the work that uh the the people, the staff, the volunteers uh for Wayside do

and not lose anybody. I think that's the message I want to get through here. Uh is that particularly at this time of year, you know, we we really should not be saying, you know, these are a bunch of drug addicts and it's their own damn fault and they just haven't got the discipline to get off. We we really can't take that approach. we've got to be more charitable. We've got to show some more grace. And I think in the main, you know, almost all these guys, they don't want to be living this kind of life. I mean, they are in this kind of predicament in in part through their own difficulties and in part because they just didn't have the advantages that you and I have had of growing up in a nice normal household, so to speak. So, anyway, I'm thinking about the guys uh who are clients of Wayside. And I got a piece uh on the TVO website describing what they're going through right now. And we just we just wish them well. You know, we want them to continue on their journey to a better life. And I'm I'm betting on I'm betting on them. There we go. Lovely. That's it. Okay. We are going to do something. I think normally at this time of the podcast, we usually do a letter that we get in, not a letter, an email about some issue. But we're not going to do that this week because we are going to do a fabulous year-end quiz and we're going to have you and two other competitors come in here and we're going to see how much you all know about the province of Ontario. [laughter] Are you ready to go?

As ready as I'm getting.

Sheldon, throw a sting up or something like that and let's get going.

I'm delighted to welcome Okay. My pal John Michael McGrath is back here.

Yes.

Okay. And uh we've got two fantastic special guests who also hang out in this building. Molly Thomas, Nam Kiwanuka. I want to start by we're first of all, we're going to start with Sugar because that's how we always start the OnP podcast. Sugar.

Notice you didn't say pals. So I'm I'm feeling already a little

No, no, we have [laughter] some traditions here. Number one, we we always start with a little sugar. And then number two, we talk about the shirts that we're wearing. Okay. Now, we already did it. John Michael Lee, you are wearing the Toronto Raptors today, obviously.

Of course. Yeah, I know you're a nice little tradition and I just wanted to add to it. Kawhi Leonard, you know, legend from 2019 that brought us the big ship. So, I'm very, very happy.

So, yeah, wearing that jersey.

Nam Shine, what do you got on today?

Funny story about this t-shirt.

Can we see it?

Yeah, it's uh Do you know who it is?

Hang on. How you going to win

when you ain't right

within?

Within. Uh, so I didn't wear a t-shirt today. I had one planned. I had a great shirt from Wham like last Christmas.

But I have a 12-year-old daughter who steals my clothing and I couldn't find it. So, I just dress normal. Come into the building. You don't have a t-shirt. I was like, I don't. And then one of our colleagues was just like, "Hey, Nam, I got this for you. I thought you might like it." Veto. So, he gave me this t-shirt this morning.

And who is that?

Uh, Veto.

No, I know.

This is Lauren Hill.

Oh, that's Lauren Hill. Okay. Yes. Yes.

Lauren Hill came after Yeah. The greatest uh rapper.

She came after Sinatra though, right?

Yes.

probably why I haven't heard of her. No, I've heard of her. I'm just sh Okay, gang. Here, here's what we're going to do here. We are going to have a year-end quiz and rather than having bells where everybody's got a sort of race to ring in, I have written the questions specifically to take advantage of your subject area expertise or at least what I think is your subject area [laughter] expertise.

How well do you know us?

Which do you not know us?

Yes. Well, that's what it may reflect in the end. So, we're going to just sort of go go like this and um Mr. McGrath, you get the first question. Our first round is miscellaneous.

Okay.

John Michael, as you know, stays up till 2 o'clock in the morning most nights of the week reading the Planning Act. So, I thought the first question should be about the Planning Act. [laughter]

John Michael,

this is a joke going in.

You have to get this right within 5 years. What was the year that the Planning Act of Ontario was actually passed for the first time? It's been amended over the years, but the first planning act was passed in what year?

I want to say 1947.

OMG.

Actually,

it was 46. But that's outstanding. I thought you said of the year. That's not [laughter]

You said you wanted within five. He had to get it right within five years and he got it within one.

At the beginning, you said we're looking at the last year. I thought that. Anyway, see, I'm very bad at doing not for you now. That question is not for you. You're amazing, John Michael.

That was a John. How did you know that?

Wow.

Uh

uh this is the kind of nerdy thing that I know, but like most provinces had to adopt uh planning acts after World War II.

Okay. Too much. Too much. All right. Oh, right. Post World War II. Okay. So, there you go. 1946.

Oh [laughter] boy, Steve, I do not stay up till 2 am. I just want to make sure people know that.

Okay. Now, Nam, I know what a fan of basketball you are, despite the fact Well, Molly may steal this question actually because she's the one wearing the Raptor jersey. But here we go.

I'm going to stick with the year 1946.

Oh jeez. [laughter]

Because the Toronto Raptors, whom you love, are actually not the first professional basketball team in the city of Toronto. We had a team in 1946 in what was then the precursor to the NBA. It was called the Basketball Association of America.

And Toronto

had a team. It didn't last long. But what was the team called?

I'm embarrassed to say that. I I want to see the records. [laughter]

It was

They should be called that.

It was not. Molly, do you know this?

I don't. This is

Do you know? No, I'm not even going to ask whether [laughter] you know you know.

Okay. I thought you might know this.

I listen. I'm going through pmenopause.

I can't even remember my children's names. This is why I was very nervous about doing this. I I will remember it tonight. Yes.

The team was called the Toronto Huskys.

I was close.

Raccoons and Huskys.

I mean, they're cute and furry and unpredictable. [laughter]

All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. Well, uh, if you hated that question about sports, Molly, I got one you're really not going to like. Here we go. We're going to stay with sports.

There are nine Canadian football league teams.

Yes.

Three of them play in the province of Ontario. Name them.

You have the Ottawa Red Blacks.

Correct.

You have the Hamilton Thai Cats, which I know is your team.

Correct.

And

and the Toronto Argonauts.

Hey, hey, hey. But I just want to say

the most important team, Saskatchewan Rough Riders, cuz I come from there, even though I love Ontario.

And they are

And they beat the Hamilton Tai Cats back in 2013 at home. That's why I stayed in Saskatchewan, then moved to Ontario. So that's what [laughter] that's good stuff. And they are the defending Grey Cup champions, right? They won the Gay Cup this year. Okay, so that's the first round. John Michael got

So wait, wait. That just shows that you know me the least. [laughter]

I I actually

One question.

That's right. Patience. Patience. Okay, here's round two. You all take the subway around here, right? You're all TTC people. Okay. I want to see how well you know your subway stations in the provincial capital.

We're going to go one at a time and I'm going to ask each of you to name one at a time

a subway station

that's named after a saint. There are a few subway stations that have been named after saints. John Michael, name one.

St. Patrick

is correct. Molly, name another one.

A saint.

We'll come back to you. Namshine, please.

St. George.

St. George is correct.

Okay, John Michael, you got another one?

St. Andrew.

St. Andrew is correct. Two points for McGrath so far. One for Namshine. There's another one. You got one, Molly?

I actually don't. And I read the book every day. How embarrassing.

There's one more.

Anyone?

Anybody want to jump in? What else?

You said St. Andrew, right?

I said St. Andrew. So, St. Andrew, St. Patrick, St. George,

St. Clair.

I heard Tina. [laughter] Tina said it.

Tina, keep feeding us. Keep keep them coming. Keep going.

I think these two said St. Clair at the same time. So, that's right.

Uh, yeah. St. Andrew, St. Patrick, St. George, St. Clair. And if you really want to get technical, there's a St. Clair West subway station as well.

So, there's two St. Clair's. Okay. Hey, you guys did pretty well on that one. Let's stay with transit. Many of the transit systems across Ontario have different names. For example, in Toronto, we call the system the

the TTC.

TTC, Toronto Transit Commission. John Michael McGrath. What do they call the transit system in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada?

Uh, it is the Hamilton Street Railway.

This guy's good.

Well [laughter] done. The HSR is correct. Hamilton Street Railway. Namshine. What do they call it in Missaga?

Oh, the I I miss I used to take Missaga. I was living in Peele only.

That's why I asked you this question.

Jeez, I told you my brain is not functioning.

The questions are actually written for the purpose of

it's not the dealing with no Missaga. I used to take the bus from in Missaga to the GO station at Arendelle.

So you would have been on the

miss Oh my god. Missaga way.

Most mway.

Pretty close.

M I way.

There you go. THAT'S WHAT WE GOT THERE. [laughter]

MY WAY. I SEE how the brain works. I see how the brain works.

Thank you for your patience, everybody. The brain is slow.

Molly, your question is, what do they call the transportation system in the nation's capital of Ottawa?

Oh,

the Ottawa transit system.

They do not. Who wants to steal that?

Did I steal? I I was born and raised in Ottawa, so I I do know this one, but I

Okay, go for it.

OC Transpo.

OC Transpo is correct.

Transpo.

So, McGrath gets a point there.

I mean, I think we know who Well, it's either going to be Molly or John Michael. I'm here for the ride. I'm here for the good time.

Two of the Saints.

We are two rounds into an eight round contest. There's lots of

eight rounds.

Oh my god. Matthew, that's the producer. [laughter]

Tell me.

And here's the last four are all sports stuff. That's where I'm going to crater.

Here's a bonus point. Shout it out if you know. This is for a bonus point. What is the new rapid transit network in Cambridge called? [laughter]

Cambridge,

Ontario.

The Cambridge

light system.

You're not talking about the ION LRT.

McGrath. That's it again.

Actually,

ion is correct.

Correct. Actually, ion. Yes. IO N.

That's kind of cool. I learned something new today. Let's cargo. Okay.

Also, if very briefly, uh we were talking about the LR the Finch LRT uh on the podcast this week, but like the Waterlue LRT has been very successful and doesn't get enough love and respect for not being a disaster and one of the not disastrous LRT projects in Ontario.

Thank you for [laughter]

the LRT on the same one that Yeah, we can't talk about the Egllington LR.

Oh, we talk about it all the time, believe me. [laughter] Yeah. All right.

14 years, right?

Uh and counting. Did you see that? Someone threw it a birthday party like uh online. [laughter]

Is that right? No, I didn't see that. That's kind of funny.

I love the internet.

Here's round four. How well do you know your premers of Ontario? Here we go.

All right. Namshine. Yeah. Who was the first ever premier of Ontario?

I know this one cuz I studied. [laughter]

John S. McDonald. The t-shirt.

I was going to say if you didn't get this [laughter]

and staring at me. Can I do a bonus point?

What's your bonus point? He also shares the name with the first prime minister of Canada.

Uh well, okay. I think that's entitled to a bonus point

to [laughter] John McDonald.

We're on bonus points over here.

Drowning over here.

I'm in a good mood to let [laughter] her have that.

Okay. Uh Molly, here's your question. Um, which premier in Ontario history, and you were alive for this,

okay,

has the shortest name, just six letters, first and last name. Just

and last

first and last name combined. Just six letters.

You're talking about the

the shortened form of the Yes. And not including the middle name.

Correct.

Thank you, Jo. I definitely didn't know the middle name. No, no, no. But you should you I mean you've heard of this person. Let's put it that way. You've definitely heard of them.

They they have remained active in politics.

They have the shortest name of any premier in Ontario history. First name, three letters, last name, three letters.

Oh, come on.

Bobina [laughter] Tina. It just it just came to be

to the

We love you, Tina.

Molly gets nothing for that. Tina gets a point for that. All right. [laughter] He should be in my spot. Tina, you want to tag tag out?

It's a relay. It's a relay.

John Michael McGrath, question for you. Who's the second longest serving premier in Ontario history? Not the first longest serving, the second longest serving.

Uh,

oh, wait, hang on. Am I going to get this wrong? Bill Davis?

Yes, of course it's Bill Davis.

You know, if I if I had not guessed Bill Davis and the correct answer was Bill Davis, you would never let me forgive it. [laughter]

Uh, you would be leaving this table right now. Yeah. So Jan, the host of the rundown, he was telling me yesterday, he's like, "No matter what you answer, just put Bill David into everything." [laughter] Well, that'll that'll help you.

You knew there'd be one Bill Davis question. And speaking of J question and a Bill Davis,

we've had Yes. Speaking of JN, where is that chicken bleep anyway? Why is he not here?

See, Jan's the smartest. I mean, he's he was like, "I'm busy." I mean, I think that's what I should have.

Yeah. Some shame on Jan.

I think shame on you.

We miss you.

Speak for yourself. Okay. [laughter] I think he's just chicken for not showing up. Okay, we're doing round five now and it's another round on Ontario Premers.

Can I say how much I'm sweating? No one else is [laughter] sweating.

Girl, you good.

Okay,

take the jacket off

again. Now, Nam, you should know this one because you were alive for this. We've had 26 premers in Ontario history.

Only two have been Catholic.

This guy, John Sanfield McDonald, and one other who is the only other Catholic premier in Ontario history.

Isn't Doug Ford Catholic? He is not.

He's not um

Kathleen win.

Not Catholic.

Uh

oh crap. Sorry. I mean, wait, Jack. [laughter]

Sorry.

You can you can say crap. You can't say something worse.

Yeah. Um Mike Harris,

also incorrect. Who wants to steal?

Um

you'd think a guy like McGrath might know this one.

So

within our lifetimes. Yes.

A Catholic premier.

I should.

Okay.

Oh, McGinty.

Oh, McGinty.

Dton James Patrick McGinty Jr. Yes. There's that good Irish Catholic name. Okay. [laughter] Yes. Very good. Molly, here's your question. Doug Ford, as we know, represents a riding in the city of Toronto in the 416. His writing is a Tobico North. Can you name any other premier who represented a riding in the 416?

any other premier in Ontario history who represented a writing in the 416 and there are four

wasn't Kathleen in the city.

There you go. That's right. [laughter] That is correct. Kathleen win and Bob Ray. Yeah, that makes sense.

Okay, give him a point for Bob Ray. You get a point for And there's two others. Can you pick the two others?

There are two others. Now, this is a long time ago. This is none of us, not even me, were alive were alive for these two, but there were two others who represented writings in the 416. I'll

just guess names

for Mo

and Mowit was Kingston. Pur was the Sue.

Ah,

Whitney.

Whitney was Where was Whitney? He was in Eastern Ontario somewhere. I think Dundas,

not Dundas. Downtown Toronto. Dundes.

Dundas on Ontario.

Like Stormmont Dundesk out there. Come on, McGrath. You got to know this.

I'll give you the writing. See if that helps. High Park.

Oh.

Um,

who was the premier who represented High Park? No, Frost was uh Lindsay, Ontario.

I love that he's like, I can give you High Park. You'll figure it out. [laughter]

Okay, I'm calling. You guys don't know. George Drew was the premier who represent High Park.

I remember that from now on.

And another George, George Henry represented York East.

And there's still a George Henry Drive up in uh North York.

My father's going to be upset that I didn't get George Drew.

Yeah, he will be. He will be. Okay, JMM, your question for this round. Our longest serving premier was in office for 24 years. Our shortest serving premier was in office for three months. Name them both.

Uh longest serving premier uh Mitt.

Mitt is correct. Oliver Mitt 24 years. Our shortest serving premier only three months

in 1943. Who was he?

Oh,

and you might know the name because his son was an MPP and his daughter was an MP.

Nixon.

Harry Nixon. That is correct. Oh, he got there.

Barry Nixon. Very good.

Can I just say the levels to your brains? [laughter]

He's like, "Oh, yeah." And so and so and then his grandmother was also and they, you know, the nanny was, "Yeah, that person."

I'm just trying to help. That's all.

It's amazing.

And I'm actually Bob Nixon, the son of Harry Nixon, the premier 1943, is still alive at 97. And I'm going to visit him next week

and I'll I will report back to this gathering. [laughter]

Okay. Round six. Let's do some geography here.

JMM.

Yeah.

The 416. The mega city used to be made up of six different municipalities. Name them all.

Atobbico, York, East York, Scar Bro, Toronto, North York.

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

See, I would have thought that right. Yeah.

Brilliant. Well done. Well done. Namshine.

Oh jeez. [laughter] I thought you forgot I was here. Which is fine. Honestly,

we have a big province that we live in.

Yes, we do.

What time zone is Canora in? I know we have two time zones,

correct?

Right. What time zone is Canora in?

Uh, central.

Yes. Very good. There we go.

Thank you, brain.

Our [laughter] province is so big that we have two time zones. Eastern time zone obviously for most of it, but in Canora, northwestern Ontario, central time.

Molly, there is only one place in the province of Ontario that you actually have to drive north to get into the United States. Where is that?

There's only one. If you think about it, it's so obvious on the face of it.

Yeah. The United States is south of us everywhere except in this one Ontario city where you have to drive north to get to the United States.

You have to cross a bridge to get there. So, I'm not saying like Alaska that doesn't happen. Yeah.

I mean, the main bridge that comes to my mind is out of Windsor, but that you wouldn't be driving north.

Ding, ding, ding.

You were driving north.

Correct. Ontario comes down like this, and Michigan comes on top of it.

So, if you're in Windsor, you're driving north.

There you go. You got it.

I also learning that, too. Okay.

I had no idea.

We're now going to find out how smart all of you are when it comes to energy policy in the [laughter] province of Ontario.

I know N is collapsing already.

It's not going to be that tough, [laughter] but here we go. We generate electricity in a lot of different ways in Ontario. And I'm going to go around and I want you one at a time to tell me the ways in which we generate electricity in Ontario.

N start.

Nuclear.

Nuclear is one.

Hydro

hydroelectric is another.

Natural gas.

Natural gas is another.

That's where I top up. [laughter]

Come on.

I already got it.

You got one, but there's more. The most important.

I did get the most important.

Do we do solar power?

Yes, solar. Okay, there's another one. What else, Molly?

Wind.

Wind is correct.

Of course. [laughter] Oh my goodness.

Is that a hint? Is that a good hint? You got any more?

Uh, there is there was at least a power plant in the north that we run off of like wood pellets. So, bio.

Yes, there you go. Biomass is correct. Okay, good. Uh, you each get two points on that one. And here come your bonus points in this round.

I want you to name and go ahead, shout it out. Name any electricity generating company in Ontario.

Big big one.

An or no big electricity generating company.

Ontario Hydro.

Well, it doesn't exist anymore. It got broken up, but you're on the right track.

Go ahead.

Hydro one and OPG.

Uh Hydro One doesn't actually generate McGrath. We should take a mark off for that.

But I was [laughter] answering the question of it like it it was broken up in two.

But Ontario Power Generation is right anymore. You said nuclear. Who generates the nuclear power? Is this a Darlington thing?

Yes, there we go. Darlington is one site. What's another one?

Uh, an Ajox.

Close.

Pickering.

Pickering. Okay. These are OPG plants and Darlington Pickering. There's one more. One more biggie.

Bruce Power. Bruce Power. There we go. Bruce,

well done, kid.

Oh, the power of the collective brain.

Yeah, I know. You're all working together. It's great. [laughter] It's a beautiful thing.

It doesn't sound like a beautiful thing, Steve.

Teamwork makes the dream works.

Okay, here's round seven. How well do you know your nicknames?

Let's try this. John Michael, what is the nickname of the Ontario legislature itself?

Uh, the Pink Palace.

That is correct. John Michael the the color of the stone on the outside.

Okay.

I thought it had something to do with women. I'm like, there's not that many women there. So, is it ironic?

Not until [laughter]

nothing to do with that and nothing to do with the, you know, like political observation. Like, there not a bunch of pinkos in that building either. So that's [laughter] it. No, it's the particular

not now.

Particularly not now. Correct. All right. Namshine for you. What is the nickname for the city of London, Ontario?

Oh, I love you, Steve. Uh, Forest City.

There you [laughter] go. For a city where I'm from Molly, I'm going to ask you for three nicknames for the city of Toronto, our capital city.

Okay. The six.

Yes.

The Big Smoke.

Yes.

Tot.

Yes. That's [laughter] great. No, very good. Very good. We also would have accepted the 416

to0.

Mhm.

And of course, Hogtown, which is what it was called when I was a kid.

Hogtown. Because there was, you know,

it's interesting. There's no raccoons.

This [laughter] there's like a theme of racco but we talk about raccoons all the time. You would think that we would come up with a nickname.

I really wanted our WNBA team to be called the raccoon. Raccoons.

Yeah. The tempo raging raccoons or something like that on me. Yeah. or like Toronto traffic or something like something that's like [laughter] funny, you know,

the Toronto movie.

Now, this last point, because I'm in such a generous mood today, you really can't get wrong. What is your favorite building in all of Ontario? Molly,

my favorite building in all of Ontario,

I I worked on Parliament Hill um as a reporter and so I think it's a very very beautiful space.

It is absolutely gorgeous.

And West Block is also beautiful. Now we're, you know, that's where everything's being held as all the renovations are being done and it's it's just a beautiful space.

That's a great answer. Namshine.

Oh, can I name three?

Knock yourself out, kid.

Uh, the Toronto Reference Library

at Young and Blur.

Yeah, I think it's so beautiful.

All right.

Uh, I love the library in Scarboro.

Okay.

Um, and also Ontario Science Center was one of my favorite buildings.

The late great.

Yeah.

The dear.

Yeah.

Late lamented.

Yeah.

Okay. We'll see if the new one that they build allegedly will be as nice. will meet your standard. And Raymond Moryamas as well.

Okay. JMM, your favorite building in the

You know what? I'm gonna uh say the legislature. I uh spend a lot of time there. Not as much as I I used to, but uh it particularly right around now, right around the the holiday time. Uh just a really beautiful building.

That is of course the correct answer.

That is the [laughter] correct answer.

What about I agree? I agree. Yeah.

Queens Park, the Ontario legislature, I think, is the most gorgeous building in the whole province of Ontario. I really believe that. Yeah, it's gorgeous.

You actually took me there when I first started, which was really kind of you. Yeah,

little tour.

Yeah, it was little tour.

Pretty.

It's beautiful inside and out.

It's imposing, but also like the history. Yeah, it's kind of cool.

What happens inside isn't always fit for publication, but you [laughter] know, but it's all right. Okay, I am going to through the magic of television uh ask Matthew Omera, our producer who's in the control room right now to give me the final score so that we can announce to the world how brilliant the three of you are. Matthew, go ahead.

Tina got one. [laughter]

Only one. That was my photo. You got more than one.

That was my photo of friend. So Tina [laughter] was your photo friend. YOU'RE RIGHT. THAT SHOW, RIGHT? Call a friend and they let you down. It's like you're not my friend anymore.

Molly got nine points.

Nam got 11 points.

Oh, shocking.

John Michael McGrath got 17.

That's not a shock. [laughter]

Our champion and still my partner who gets to continue. John Michael.

Can I just turn the tables around a little bit? Okay. So Molly and I both work in like on different shows like you do misinformation, disinformation. I do.

Yeah. I do a podcast on women's health.

Can I just mistreated treated? Sorry. [laughter] Okay.

You're off the Christmas card minus one already.

I'm joking. I love you, Steve. Um so I think I should ask you a few questions around women's health.

Okay.

Cuz I just, you know, do so well on this.

Yeah. Question one. Um when were women included in clinical trials? in clinical trials in Ontario,

in uh America and in Canada.

You're looking for a year.

Yes. If I get the century right, is that enough? [laughter]

No.

When were women included in clinical trials? I'm going to say 1969.

No. 1993 in the US.

Are you kidding me?

And in Canada, uh Canada 1997.

That's crazy.

Yeah. When were researchers mandated to use uh female mice in uh research in clinical studies?

What year?

Yeah.

Are we into the 90s?

Uh

earlier

further ahead.

Yeah. Less than nine years ago.

No kidding.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Would not have guessed.

One final question. It might make you blush.

Go ahead.

Uh for menration

Oh MY GOD. [laughter]

WOMEN use a number of different accutraants um and one of them is the tampon. When did they start testing blood on tampons to see if

scientists in Yeah.

as opposed to some other

as opposed to blue water that you see on the commercials?

How come the questions are all about a year?

Well, because it's just kind of shocking, right?

Yeah, that is true. That is true. Uh, I haven't a clue, but let's say 1990,

2023.

Come on. [laughter] Are you serious?

That's why I'm asking you the years because it makes you want to throw like pick up a chair and throw it against the wall.

That's really There was a question you were talking about yesterday that I I promised I would not study for, but I I I need to know the answer for was how many neurosurgeons are

in Canada. Uh, so it's uh this is not a number, but we're talking to people who are being impacted by a condition called Ella's Danlo syndrome. It impacts mostly women, right? And neurosurgeons are the people that treat them. So for a nation of how many people are in 41 million 40 [clears throat] um how many neurosurgeons do you think we have in can in Canada?

Neurosurgeons for a population of 40 million people.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Who would know? Like uh 5,000

around 350.

Wow.

Yikes.

Yeah.

That's not very many.

No.

Long wait list.

Wow. Surprisingly.

Yeah. So

could you do me a favor? Yeah.

Could you ask me a question about some former premier? [laughter] I promise I'll get that one right.

I know you got a podcast. [laughter] There you go. Molly, any I have a question for you guys.

At least I had to throw one from Big of True. Um, so we did an episode on Sora, which is this new text video tool where people can literally tell it what they want to create, which can be fun if you're just like surfing, you know, in Australia, but if you're, you know, maybe making a policy change or you're acting like you're a politician, this could be really deceiving and misleading. Mhm.

So today a major company is going to invest in OpenAI, the makers of Sora.

A major major player.

Ding ding ding. Disney.

That's Disney. Disney's come to the table, which can revolutionize Hollywood and change everything about the way things are made.

Well, and they've said they're going to license their property, like their intellectual property. The charact like Disney characters will get licensed to uh Open AI. And so you're going to be able to like you're I'm already imagining the conversations I'm going to be having with my kid about they're going to be able to generate like Disney videos of like you can make a Disney character. I know you love that.

Yeah. Star Wars the whole Marvel universe. It's it's going to be uh

a brave new world.

A whole new world. So yeah, we did a whole episode on Sora.

New world.

There you got your chance to sing.

It's a Disney tune.

It is.

Can we are we can we use that song cuz money, [laughter] right?

Yeah, I know. Two seconds.

Right in the public domain with the sora stuff. [laughter]

Fair use. That's it. Okay, Sheldon, should we get going?

Guys, this was a delight. Thank you very much for participating and enjoying the good fun that this was intended to be.

It wasn't too bad.

And next year, we'll do a whole new segment on women's health. [laughter]

Yay.

You've got that much time to study.

My plan has more excellent. [laughter]

Thanks, guys.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And that is the OnPy podcast for this Friday, December 12th, 2025, our final episode of this year. Thanks so much everybody for being with us. [music] You

can follow our show wherever you get your podcast so that you get notified each time a new episode is available. And you can see the video version of the podcast [music] on the TV today YouTube channel.

Any feedback you have, we're always happy to hear it. You know this line. I stole it from John Turner, the former prime minister. Good, bad, or indifferent, we're happy to get your emails at onpolitics@tvo.org. Please include your first and last name and where you're from.

This week's episode was produced by Matthew, editing by Colin Kish.

Production support from Jonathan Hallowell and TVO's digital media services team.

Lorie F is the executive producer of digital. John Ferry is the vice president of programming and content.

We want to thank the crew as we always do every week for making the studio look so nice and for all of the efforts they put in. David's over there, Tina's over here. And given that it's December 12th, it's not just John Sanfield McDonald's birthday. I got to give a shout out to one more guy who's got a birthday on this date in 1915. Old Blue Eyes. [laughter] I'm going to be playing lots of Sinatra over the holidays. So, Francis Albert Sinatra, thank you for being you. And happy birthday today. He'd be 10. 110 today. Ah, yes. Old blue eyes. Until January 16th, 2026, everybody. Bye-bye.

Byebye.