叠叠乐热身与自我介绍
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 没错。拿到它了。动作再利落、再有侵略性一点，追上他们。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Yeah. Get it. Get be a little more aggressive. Get after them.
阿努什·古普塔: 我的意思是，我倒不如直接接受这个挑战。
Original English
Anush Gupta: I mean, I might as well be up for the challenge.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 扫帚！不，我是认真的。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Broom. No, seriously.
阿努什·古普塔: 究竟是什么能让人们凝聚在一起？哦，我早就知道你该抽到这一块积木的。你肯定只会回答“食物”。
Original English
Anush Gupta: What actually brings people together? Oh, I knew you should have gotten this. You would just have food.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 就是食物。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Food.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 大家好，我是尼尔·弗林格拉斯，Visit Philadelphia 的首席营销官。我相信，民主的成功取决于我们每一个人的参与。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Hi, I'm Neil Fringlass. I'm the chief marketing officer at Visit Philadelphia and I believe the success of democracy is up to all of us participating.
阿努什·古普塔: 我是阿努什·古普塔，Welcoming Center 的总裁。我相信民主依然可以发挥作用。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Anush Gupta, president of the welcoming center and I believe democracy can still work.
旁白: 今天我们要在现场进行一局“观点叠叠乐”（Idea Knockdown）的游戏。红色的积木代表快速问答，而黑色的积木代表需要更深入探讨的问题。无论谁弄倒了这座积木塔，都必须接受一项神秘的挑战。
Original English
Narrator: Today we're playing idea knockdown. Red blocks are rapid fire questions and black blocks have questions that go a little deeper. Whoever knocks down the tower will have to do a mystery challenge.
辩论被高估了吗？
阿努什·古普塔: 去抽下面那一块。来吧。好，拿到了。辩论被高估了吗？绝对没有。我们需要理解其他人要说些什么，去理解不同的观点，对吧？毕竟动物园需要许多种不同的动物才能组成。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Go for a lower piece. Come on. Okay. Is debate overrated? Absolutely not. We need to understand what other people have to say and understand other opinions, right? It takes a lot of animals to make up a zoo.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 而且，我们自己也并不总是正确的。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: We're also not always right.
阿努什·古普塔: 没错。不，等等，停下。好，成了。这感觉就像是在训练我的狗一样。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah. No. Stop. Okay. There we go. It's like I'm talking my dog.
人们真的想参与民主吗？
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 你认为大多数人真的想要参与进来吗？我认为我们现在处于一个阶段，那就是大多数人觉得参与其中并没有任何实质好处。如果他们觉得有好处，那么答案就会是肯定的。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Do you think most people actually want to participate? I think we're at a point where most people feel like there is no benefit to participating. If they felt like there was a benefit, then the answer would be yes.
阿努什·古普塔: 我认为很多人其实想参与，只是他们不知道该如何以一种有意义的方式去进行。比如，写信给你的议员，关注地方新闻并公开发表意见，把邻居们组织动员起来。我们必须主动地参与民主，它不能是消极被动的，否则民主就无法运转。
Original English
Anush Gupta: I think a lot of people want to participate and they don't know how to do it in a way that is meaningful. You know, writing letters to your council person, seeing what's happening in the local news and speaking out, rallying neighbors together. We have to actively participate in democracy. It can't be passive, otherwise it won't work.
分裂还是脱节？
阿努什·古普塔: 人们是处于分裂状态，还是仅仅是彼此脱节了？人们毫无疑问是分裂的，而这种分裂很大程度上是因为他们之间失去了联系，脱节了。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Are people divided or just disconnected? People are certainly divided and they're probably divided because they are disconnected.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我们只是彼此渐行渐远，无法找到共同点。但我们在日常交流中经常提到，只要你多问一个问题，你就能开始找到那个共同点，并且明白我们其实许多人想要的是同样的东西。分裂只是脱节的一种表象。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: We are just getting further and further apart from each other and we cannot find common ground. And one of the things that we talk about so much, right, if you ask one more question, you can begin to find that common ground and understand that many of us want the same things. That division is just a symptom of the disconnection.
阿努什·古普塔: 完全赞同。那么，我看到了什么？幸好我不是一名土木工程师。(笑声)
Original English
Anush Gupta: Totally agree. So, what do I see? It's good thing I wasn't a civil engineer.
年轻人能修复上一代人留下的创伤吗？
阿努什·古普塔: 年轻人能修复被年长一代人破坏的东西吗？能。前提是他们不沿袭年长一代人的相同习惯，并且能将他们的乐观精神带入到具体的议题中，从而打破那些旧有的条条框框。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Can young people fix what older generations broke? Yes. If they don't adopt the same habits of older generations and they bring their optimism to bear on whatever that issue is to allow them to break past those practices.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 几百年来我们已经见证了这样的证明。我们在费城一直谈论对“更完善联邦”（a more perfect union）的追求。我们正在这样做，对吧？你和我与我们的父母一辈相比，都属于年轻的一代，我们正在努力使之变得更好。我们现在就在这里。所以，我认为答案是一个极其坚定的“可以”。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: And we've seen proof of that over hundreds of years. We talk all the time in Philly about this pursuit of a more perfect union. And we're doing that, right? You and I are a younger generation from our parents and trying to better it. We're here right now. So, I think it is an emphatic yes.
阿努什·古普塔: 太好了，这个很简单。
Original English
Anush Gupta: There you go. Nice. That was easy.
什么能真正凝聚人心？
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 究竟是什么能让人们凝聚在一起？哦，我早知道你应该抽到这块积木的，你肯定会说是食物。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: What actually brings people together? Oh, I knew you should have gotten this. You would have said food.
阿努什·古普塔: 食物。没错，食物是把人们聚在一起的一个巨大推手。我认为另一个是家庭，以及共同的社区归属感。归根结底，我认为所有这些凝聚要素都是非常个人化的，并且围绕着我们认识的人展开。这可能就是挑战所在，对吧？因为随着视野变得更开阔，你和越来越多不认识的人互动，事情就会变得更有挑战性。你不确定你们是否拥有相同的价值观念，而这正是我们开始筑起心墙的时候。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Food. Yeah, food is a huge one that brings people together. I think another one is family, shared sense of community. Ultimately, I think all the things are incredibly personal and around people that we know. And maybe that's why it's a challenge, right? Because as the aperture gets wider and you interact with more and more people that you don't know, it becomes more challenging and you're not sure if you have a shared sense of values and that's when we start to put up walls.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我现在感觉这里整座积木塔的结构完整性越来越让人担心了。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Maybe feel like the structural integrity is increasingly in question here.
如何判断民主在运转？
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 你怎么知道民主是否在起作用？当然，其中一个标准是，如果我们能够针对一些更大、更紧迫的问题找到解决方案，即使这些方案并不完美。如果我们至少能找到一条尝试解决的路径，即使这件事情最终没有成功，这对我来说也意味着民主仍在运转。因为我们让各种不同的利益诉求凝聚在了一条路线上，并且大家都表示“是的，我们打算尝试这种方法”。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: How do you know if a democracy is working? Uh certainly one way is if we find solutions, even if they're not perfect, to some of our larger, more pressing issues. If we can at least find a pathway to try and solve it, even if the the thing doesn't ultimately work, that suggests to me that democracy is still working cuz we got a variety of interests to coalesce around a path and to say yes, we're going to try this.
阿努什·古普塔: 曾有人告诉我，民主在运转的标志，正是我们还在积极地各持己见、相互争论。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Somebody once told me that a democracy is working if we're actively disagreeing with each other.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 确实如此。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Yeah.
阿努什·古普塔: 这话真的让我深有感触。如果大家都意见一致，那我们可能根本就不是在民主社会里。我们可以公开发声，可以相互争论，这正是民主进程的全部核心所在。
Original English
Anush Gupta: And that really hit home, right? If if we're all agreeing, we're probably not in a democracy. And the fact that we can speak out and we can disagree with each other, that's what the democratic process is all about.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 但前提是，这种分歧与争论不能阻止我们合作的尝试。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: But so long as that disagreement doesn't stop attempts to work together.
阿努什·古普塔: 没错。(笑声)
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah.
地方政治中被低估的公民力量
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 哦，我早知道这里面肯定有简单的问题。我们要给你出个难的，让你不好摆放。人们拥有比自己想象中更多的力量，这指的是哪一方面？我确实认为，人们对地方社区发生的事情拥有比自己意识到的更多的影响力。每天早上遛狗的时候，只要我看到什么问题，我就会给我的区议员发邮件。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Oh, I knew one of these had to be easy. We'll make it harder on you to place that. What's one thing people have more power over than they realize? I do think people have more power over what happens in their local community than they realize. Every morning when I'm walking the dogs, I see something and I email my councilman.
阿努什·古普塔: 赞同。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 每个人其实每天都可以做到这一点。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: And everybody could do that every single day.
阿努什·古普塔: 每一天。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Every day.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 想要做出改变，就像打一通电话或发一封简短的便签那样简单。但我看到人们抱怨的时候多，采取行动去改变的时候少。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: It's as easy as making that call or sending that note to to make change. and and and I see people complain more than take the action to do it.
阿努什·古普塔: 我想把同样的逻辑上升到国会山层面。我可以以一名前国会幕僚的身份告诉你，我曾担任过一位众议院议员的幕僚长。每周我都要求我的下属拉出一份报告，统计所有针对特定议题、法案或信件收到的电子邮件、电话、仍然会发过来的传真，以及手写信件。我会把这些，尤其是选区内居民的反馈，考虑到我们要不要让议员联署某项法案的决定里。
Original English
Anush Gupta: I would elevate that exact same dynamic to Capitol Hill. I I can tell you as a former Capitol Hill staffer, I was chief of staff to a member of the House. Every week I ask my staff to pull a report of the emails, the phone calls, the faxes that still come in, and handwritten letters on any particular issue, bill, letter,
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我也会考虑这一点。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: and I would factor that in,
阿努什·古普塔: 特别是那些来自选区内居民的反馈。我会将这些因素作为依据，来决定要在哪些法案上签署议员的名字。
Original English
Anush Gupta: particularly those that came in from residents in the district. I would factor that in into what bills I would put the congressman's name on.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 是的，很多时候只需一位选民的意见引起我的注意，我就能让国会议员加入该法案的支持行列。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Yeah. All it took was that one constituent to draw my attention to it and I put the congressman on the bill.
阿努什·古普塔: 去支持它。
Original English
Anush Gupta: To support it.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 这太棒了。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: It's great.
阿努什·古普塔: 所以实际上，它直到现在依然管用。
Original English
Anush Gupta: So actually it it actually still works.
投票应该成为强制性的吗？
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我的动作会更冒险一点，但不会完全失控。投票应该成为强制性的吗？
Original English
Neil Fringlass: I mean I'll be a little more reckless but not completely reckless. Should voting be mandatory?
阿努什·古普塔: 应该。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yes.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 应该。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Yes.
阿努什·古普塔: 没错。天啊，积木开始晃动了。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah. Oh man, it's wobbly.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 他们正在给人们他们想要的东西。(笑声)
Original English
Neil Fringlass: They're giving the people what they want.
妥协是力量还是软弱的象征？
阿努什·古普塔: 妥协是力量还是软弱的象征？这是力量的象征。这表明整个系统正在发挥作用。而我们却把每一个立场、每一个政策都变成了教条式的选择。这根本不是这个系统设计时所期望的工作方式。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Is compromise a sign of strength or weakness? It's a sign of strength. It's a sign that the system is working. We have made everything, every position, every policy a dogmatic choice. That is not the way the system was intended to work.
声音不被听见与投票率下降的危机
阿努什·古普塔: 好的。问题在于人们根本不在乎，还是他们觉得自己的声音无关紧要？我真的认为，是因为人们觉得自己的声音根本无关紧要。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Okay. Is the problem that people don't care or they feel like their voice doesn't matter? I really think it's that people feel like their voice doesn't matter.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 确实如此。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Yeah.
阿努什·古普塔: 我觉得有太多的人非常在乎他们的社区、城市、州以及国家。但是我认为他们普遍感到自己在任何事情上都没有发言权。
Original English
Anush Gupta: You know, I think so many people care about their communities, their cities, their states, their country. Um, but I think they they feel like they don't they don't have a voice in anything.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我们可以把费城视为其中的一个缩影。在我们的有生之年里，曾几何时费城市长选举的投票率能高达 70% 以上。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: We could look at Philadelphia as a microcosm of that. In our lifetime, we used to see turnout higher than 70%.
阿努什·古普塔: 没错。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 在费城市的市长选举中。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: In elections for mayor in the city of Philadelphia.
阿努什·古普塔: 确实。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 而现在我们已经跌到了 30%。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: We're now down to 30%.
阿努什·古普塔: 对。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Right.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 怎么会在这么短的时间内发生这么大的变化？我们甚至都还没那么老。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: How did that happen in such a short period of time? We're not that old.
阿努什·古普塔: 没错。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 发生这种情况是因为人们出于某种原因开始退出这个系统。大概是因为他们觉得自己的切身问题并没有得到应有的解决。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: It happened because people started to check out of the system for one reason or another. Probably because they feel like their issues aren't being addressed.
阿努什·古普塔: 是的。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah.
降低温度：如何引导公民参与
阿努什·古普塔: 你如何邀请人们加入到公民参与中来？我认为你要降低温度。如果你一开始就把立场预设为“你在这个问题上要么支持这一边，要么支持那一边”，你就已经疏远并排斥了很大一部分人。所以，我认为你可以通过降低争论的温度，来扩大这把保护伞，让更多人参与到对话中来。
Original English
Anush Gupta: How do you invite people into civic engagement? I think you lower the temperature. If you start from the position, you're either on one side or another of this issue, you have just alienated a whole group of people. So, I think you can bring you can broaden the umbrella and get more people in to have conversation by bringing the temperature down.
重建对真相的理解
阿努什·古普塔: 成了。噢，天哪，真的。来吧。哦，天，看来这次轮到你了，朋友。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Boom. Oh, no. Seriously. Come on. Oh gosh. It's going to be you, my friend.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 看来是要轮到我了。好。现在有什么东西是值得重建的？我认为我们需要重建我们对真相的理解，以便我们在什么是真实正确的、什么是虚假错误的事情上，拥有共同的基础和共识。如果没有这个共同基础，我们永远无法走到一起。抱歉。(笑声)
Original English
Neil Fringlass: It's going to be you. Okay. What is one thing worth rebuilding right now? I think we need to rebuild our our understanding of truth so that we can have common ground on what is real and true and common ground on what is fake and untrue. Without that, we we can't ever come together. Sorry.
社交媒体对民主的破坏性影响
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 社交媒体对民主有益吗？不（N-O），没有。句号。我对这一点深信不疑。我认为它是我们在有生之年见过的，对有效民主最具破坏性的力量之一。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Is social media good for democracy? N O no. Period. I feel very very strongly about that. I think it is one of the most destructive forces towards an effective democracy I've seen in my lifetime.
阿努什·古普塔: 的确如此。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah.
叠叠乐倒塌与风筝挑战
阿努什·古普塔: 再利落一点，动作更带劲一点。去拿那个。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Get it get be a little more aggressive. Get after that.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 好吧，我的意思是，我倒不如直接迎接这个挑战，看看我能不能搞定它。成了。(叠叠乐倒塌)
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Well, I mean, I might as well be up for the challenge here. See if I could do it. There we go.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 好的，我的神秘挑战是我需要和一位陌生人一起放风筝。完成它。直接干吧。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Okay, my challenge is I need to fly a kite with a stranger. Done. Just do this.
阿努什·古普塔: 祝你好运。
Original English
Anush Gupta: Good luck.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 好了，各位。我打赌输了，你们能帮帮我吗？你们不帮。不，你们帮不上忙。不行。好吧，没关系，没问题。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: All right, guys. I lost a bet. Will you help me? You don't. No, you're not helpful. No. Okay. Okay. Okay. No problem.
阿努什·古普塔: 他脸上的表情就像在说：“亲爱的，往另一边看。绕过他们。” 没关系，这很正常。你愿意帮忙吗？噢，你真的愿意帮我？
Original English
Anush Gupta: He's like, "Honey, look the other way. Go past them." That's okay. That's okay. You want to help? Oh, you do want to help me?
路人: 当然可以。
Original English
Passerby: Sure.
阿努什·古普塔: 她加入了！她加入了！
Original English
Anush Gupta: She's in. She's in.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 你有没有注意到，我刚把风筝交给你，微风就完全停了？好的，准备好了吗？
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Do you notice the breeze like totally stopped now that I handed you the kite? Okay, ready?
路人: 是不是需要像这样把它抛到空中？
Original English
Passerby: Do you need to like shoot it up in the air?
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 也许吧，也许吧。我需要给线施加拉力吗？
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Maybe. Maybe. Do I need tension?
阿努什·古普塔: 噢，有风了，风来了。现在有微风了，就在现在。有风……
Original English
Anush Gupta: Oh, breeze. Freeze. There's breeze right now. There's
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我不知道，我不知道风朝哪边吹，我不知道。看，我们飞起来了！
Original English
Neil Fringlass: I don't know. I don't know which way is it going. I don't know. This we're doing.
阿努什·古普塔: 没错，对，就是这样！飞起来了！你做到了！你飞起来了！
Original English
Anush Gupta: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. YOU GOT IT. YOU GOT IT. YOU GOT IT. YOU GOT IT.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 你看到风筝头抬起来了吗？它的前段已经飞起来了。这完全算数，对吧？是的。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Did you see that head lift off? That head lift off. That totally counts, right? Yeah.
阿努什·古普塔: 你能行，你可以的。就像这样，对。
Original English
Anush Gupta: You can do it. You can do it. Like, yeah.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我以为你已经稳住它了。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: I thought you had it.
路人: 我不知道。
Original English
Passerby: I don't know.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我觉得你刚才确实稳住了一小会儿。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: I thought you had it for a little bit.
路人: 也许就像这样。
Original English
Passerby: Like maybe like that.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 好的。好的。行，一、二、三，我们再试最后一次。
Original English
Neil Fringlass: Okay. Okay. Okay. One. We're going to do one more time.
阿努什·古普塔: 我觉得你成功飞起来了。
Original English
Anush Gupta: I think you did it.
尼尔·弗林格拉斯: 我们成功了！我们成功了！我们努力尝试过了，这才是最重要的，对吧？
Original English
Neil Fringlass: We did it. We did it. We tried. That's what counts, right?
阿努什·古普塔: 我们确实做到了。我们做到了。这太棒了。
Original English
Anush Gupta: We did. We did. This is awesome.