Toma Bravo的崛起与Orlando Bravo的个人故事
With one of the best track records in private equity, Bravo manages 179 billion in assets, Bravo has grown at a blistering pace. Bravo以其在私募股权 (Private Equity: 对非上市公司进行股权投资，或收购上市公司后将其私有化的投资活动) 领域最出色的业绩记录之一，管理着1790亿美元的资产，并以惊人的速度增长。
Last year, the firm returned over $13 billion to investors. In 2019, Orlando became the first Puerto Rico-born billionaire. 去年，该公司向投资者返还了超过130亿美元。2019年，Orlando成为首位出生于波多黎各的亿万富翁。
Private equity firms, the good ones, definitely beat the public markets. We are in the business of turning great innovators into great businesses. 好的私募股权公司无疑超越了公开市场。我们的业务是将伟大的创新者转变为伟大的企业。
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Toma Bravo's Orlando Bravo. 各位女士先生，请欢迎Toma Bravo的Orlando Bravo。
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David: See you. Thanks for coming. How are you, David? Good to see you. For those that don't know, let me just do a couple of data points and then we'll just jump into the story because Orlando has an in— David: 好的，谢谢您的到来。你好，David？很高兴见到您。对于那些不了解情况的人，我先提供几个数据点，然后我们直接进入故事，因为Orlando有一个——
JL: Wait, are we are we seriously going to ignore whatever virtue signaling JL is doing over here? What what's this virtue signal you got going? What are you doing right now? JL: 等等，我们真的要无视JL在这里做的任何“道德姿态”吗？你现在在搞什么“道德姿态”？你现在在做什么？
Orlando: Well, this isn't virtue. This is my bestie Tulsi gave me an official scarf from her office for my wife and I stole it from my wife. So, I'm wearing it. Orlando: 嗯，这不是什么道德姿态。这是我的好朋友Tulsi给了我一条她办公室的官方围巾，本来是给我妻子的，但我从我妻子那里偷来了。所以，我戴着它。
Orlando: And I know you probably didn't see it yesterday, but Jason was run over by the director of national intelligence, Tulsy Gabbard, yesterday. He was so tilted. She was walking through the Russia hoax. He was so tilted he had his phone googling and grocking trying to get and and all he could come up with is this. Orlando: 我知道你昨天可能没看到，但Jason昨天被国家情报总监Tulsi Gabbard碾压了。他非常激动。她当时正在谈论“通俄门”骗局。他非常激动，拿着手机在谷歌上搜索、研究，想找出点什么，结果他能拿出的只有这个。
Orlando: And literally in this tone, what about Paul Maniffort? And nobody knew what that meant. Nobody knows who he is, including her. Orlando: 他简直是用这种语气说：“Paul Manafort呢？”没有人知道那是什么意思。没有人知道他是谁，包括她自己。
David: Okay, so your mother, why you got to beat up on Jason so much, you should be a nicer to him, he is your bestie. Sorry, continue. David: 好的，那么，你妈妈，你为什么总是这么打击Jason，你应该对他好一点，他是你的好朋友。抱歉，请继续。
David: Orlando has an incredibly inspiring story, but let me just set the backdrop of what Toma Bravo is. Toma Bravo started in 2008, so what is that, 17 years now, and now has just a little under 200 billion, which is incredible. David: Orlando有一个非常鼓舞人心的故事，但让我先介绍一下Toma Bravo的背景。Toma Bravo成立于2008年，算起来现在是17年了，目前管理着略低于2000亿美元的资产，这令人难以置信。
David: But here are the two stats that stunned me: in June, you raised $34.4 billion in basically like a set of fund vehicles, which is, I want to understand how that is even possible. David: 但有两项数据让我震惊：在六月份，你们通过一系列基金工具募集了344亿美元，我真想知道这怎么可能。
David: And then you basically have owned now over 500 companies and many of the big software companies that you know we probably interact with and have to deal with. David: 而且你们现在已经拥有了超过500家公司，其中许多都是我们可能经常接触和打交道的大型软件公司。
David: But before we get into all those details, I think what's inspiring is you are a child of Puerto Rico, a small town in Puerto Rico, and I've texted you this before, but I just wanted you to tell everybody, how does a guy, and I'm not I'm saying this in a nice way, from literally the middle of nowhere, get here? How does that happen? Your parents, your family, like how does that happen? David: 但在我们深入探讨所有这些细节之前，我认为最鼓舞人心的是，您是波多黎各一个偏远小镇的孩子，我以前也给您发过信息，但我只是想让您告诉大家，一个来自，我不是贬低，一个来自真正偏远地区的人，是如何走到今天这一步的？这是怎么发生的？您的父母、您的家人，这究竟是如何实现的？
从波多黎各到华尔街：家庭与导师的指引
Orlando: Well, by the way, thanks so much for having me. And I'm not sure how we're supposed to talk about serious stuff and private equity when we have this, but you persevere. Orlando: 顺便说一下，非常感谢邀请我。我不知道在这种情况下，我们该如何谈论严肃的事情和私募股权，但您坚持下来了。
Orlando: I I got this. Look, that touches my heart that you asked that question because when Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico, kind of everything stopped for me because my best friends are there, my family's there, my cousins, my my whole upbringing. Orlando: 我明白了。听着，你问这个问题触动了我的心，因为当飓风玛丽亚袭击波多黎各时，对我来说一切都停滞了，因为我最好的朋友在那里，我的家人在那里，我的表亲，我整个成长经历都在那里。
Orlando: I got there on a plane the day after. Orlando: 我在飓风过后第二天就乘飞机去了那里。
David: And where were you at the time? David: 你当时在哪里？
Orlando: I was in San Francisco. Orlando: 我在旧金山。
David: Okay. David: 好的。
Orlando: And we had gotten a message from Puerto Rico saying there's some shelters, particularly one that was really close to my hometown that had only two days supply of food and water. Orlando: 我们收到波多黎各发来的消息，说有一些避难所，特别是一个离我家乡非常近的，只剩下两天食物和水的储备了。
Orlando: And there were all these kids and everything else. And the government of Puerto Rico, they had they had trouble serving these towns. Orlando: 那里有很多孩子等等。波多黎各政府在为这些城镇提供服务方面遇到了困难。
Orlando: So we said, "We'll go from San Francisco and bring you a bunch of food and water and we'll we'll be there tomorrow." And they actually showed up. Orlando: 所以我们说：“我们从旧金山出发，给你们带去大量的食物和水，我们明天就到。”他们真的出现了。
Orlando: When I landed, three of my friends that I hadn't seen in a while, my best high school friends, one of them asked me, "Oh, now you're doing all this business stuff. How did that happen?" Orlando: 当我落地时，我有一段时间没见的三位朋友，我最好的高中朋友，其中一人问我：“哦，你现在在做所有这些商业事务。这是怎么发生的？”
Orlando: And I said, "Well, the odds are one of us had to get lucky out of everybody here, one I mean that there's there's some odds to that." Orlando: 我说：“嗯，概率是，我们这里所有人中总有一个人会走运，我的意思是，这其中存在一定的概率。”
David: But was that something like your parents gave you where they're like, "You have to go, you have to do something or—" David: 但那是你父母给你的东西吗？他们是不是说：“你必须走出去，你必须做点什么，否则——”
Orlando: Yes. Now, at every turn, I tell you this, how exactly I got here. I've never created anything new, but I always had my mom who was a Cuban immigrant. Orlando: 是的。每次转折，我都会告诉你我是如何走到今天的。我从未创造过任何新事物，但我一直有我的妈妈，她是一位古巴移民。
Orlando: And for her, just me staying there, it didn't feel right to her. She was always, you know, she would put me in positions where I would always have to be traveling to San Juan to play tennis, the sport of tennis individual. Orlando: 对她来说，我只是呆在那里，她觉得不对劲。她总是，你知道，她会把我放在一些位置上，让我总是不得不去圣胡安打网球，这项个人运动。
Orlando: Then if I did well, I remember I played my first tournament when I was 10 years old in Caracas, Venezuela. Orlando: 然后如果我打得好，我记得我10岁时在委内瑞拉加拉加斯参加了我的第一场比赛。
Orlando: And I saw wealth back then, Caracas, Venezuela in 1982 was quite a place and you played in this fancy club and then you if I do really well, I get to play in Florida. Orlando: 那时我见识了财富，1982年的委内瑞拉加拉加斯是一个相当不错的地方，你在那个豪华俱乐部打球，然后如果你打得非常好，我就可以去佛罗里达打球。
Orlando: So she was always always kind of giving me a road map for that. I was lucky that I wasn't that good to go pro. So I went so so that I went into business. Orlando: 所以她总是给我指明一条道路。我很幸运我没有好到可以成为职业选手。所以我就投身商界了。
Orlando: But then the same thing at at work, you know, I had the two best mentors and the only thing I give myself credit for is at a young age I really listened. Orlando: 但在工作中也是一样，你知道，我有两位最好的导师，我唯一值得称赞的是，我在年轻时真的很会倾听。
Orlando: I had discipline and I would kind of kind of take it all in. Orlando: 我有纪律性，我会把所有东西都吸收进来。
早期职业的挑战与Toma Bravo的起步
David: You were also the beneficiary of an incredible mentor. And there's these great stories. Yesterday we heard, you know, Vlad tried to get a job at Climate Corp. Couldn't started Robin Hood. David: 您也受益于一位杰出的导师。有很多精彩的故事。昨天我们听说，Vlad想在Climate Corp.找工作，没成功就创办了Robin Hood。
David: You know, famously, my HR lead at Facebook introduced me to her then boyfriend Ben Sberman. We interviewed Ben. We ended up not hiring him. He immediately started Pinterest. David: 大家都知道，我在Facebook的人力资源主管把我介绍给了她当时的男朋友Ben Silbermann。我们面试了Ben。最终没有雇佣他。他立刻创办了Pinterest。
David: And when you graduated from Stanford, you only got one job offer from like a three-person firm basically. Do you want to tell us about that story? David: 而您从斯坦福毕业时，基本上只收到了一家三人公司的唯一一份工作邀请。您愿意给我们讲讲那个故事吗？
Orlando: Yeah, I would you know at 1997 there was not not much private equity and the venture business you didn't hire a lot of people. It was also it was also small. Orlando: 是的，在1997年，私募股权和风险投资业务并不多，他们也不招很多人。当时规模也很小。
Orlando: Now I I want to add this to the story. I had I got one interview with one of the largest private equity firms at the time and the head of the firm spent time with me. Very very nice guy. Orlando: 现在我想补充一点。我当时获得了一次面试机会，是与当时最大的私募股权公司之一进行的，公司的负责人花时间和我谈了谈。他是个非常好的人。
Orlando: But you know what he said and this is 1997. There's not much opportunity in our industry anymore and the industry is taken. Orlando: 但你知道他说什么吗，那是1997年。他说：“我们这个行业已经没有太多机会了，市场已经被占领了。”
Orlando: Now our firm is multiples bigger than they are. And the same thing will happen in the future for the few of you that may be interested in private equity. Orlando: 现在我们的公司规模是他们的好几倍。未来对少数可能对私募股权感兴趣的人来说，同样的事情也会发生。
Orlando: You'll come by and create a firm and it the American spirit and entrepreneurialism and being at the right place at the right time because we started doing software and it's hard not to do well if you started doing software back then and had all this this wind behind your back. Orlando: 你们会来创建一家公司，这体现了美国精神和创业精神，并且要在正确的时间出现在正确的地点，因为我们当时开始做软件，如果你那时候就开始做软件，并且有这么多顺风支持，很难不成功。
Orlando: So, I didn't I couldn't get a job. There weren't many. And then Carl Toma hired me. Orlando: 所以，我没有找到工作。机会不多。然后Carl Toma雇佣了我。
Orlando: And at the end of the process, this is interesting. There were a few private equity firms that kind of opened up a position for me to do Latin American private equity. Orlando: 在这个过程的最后，这很有趣。有几家私募股权公司为我开放了一个职位，让我做拉丁美洲的私募股权业务。
Orlando: And I'm like, "No, I've I've spent too much time in the south. The money's in the north. I I you know, I want to do US buyout tech. That's what I wanted to do." Orlando: 我当时想：“不，我在南方待的时间太长了。钱在北方。我，你知道，我想做美国的技术收购。那才是我真正想做的。”
Orlando: And Carl was great. He said, "If you want to do tech, that's not something we do, but you know, start looking at it and and we'll we'll help you." Orlando: Carl很棒。他说：“如果你想做科技，那不是我们做的业务，但你可以开始研究，我们会帮助你。”
Toma Bravo的运营哲学：小团队、大回报
David: And so, so just tell us about how the decisions you've made now to build this business. How many people do you have? How do you run 200 billion effectively? How do you raise 34 how do you what do you tell people to raise 34 billion? I don't I don't even I don't even comprehend that. David: 那么，请告诉我们您现在是如何通过决策来建立这家公司的。您有多少员工？如何有效地管理2000亿美元？您如何募集340亿？您对人们说什么才能募集到340亿？我甚至无法理解这一点。
Orlando: I think you do. Come on. You guys have done pretty well. Orlando: 我想你理解。别这样。你们做得相当不错。
David: I appreciate that. But but it's okay. David: 我很感激。但这没关系。
Orlando: So we have we are very very focused on keeping the team very small. So we have about 230 people at at Toma Bravo within the organization. Orlando: 我们非常非常注重保持团队规模很小。Toma Bravo内部大约有230名员工。
Orlando: The the reason is you if if you have too big of a team, you become internally focused and start dreaming about conversations internally. Orlando: 原因是，如果你的团队规模太大，你就会变得内向，开始沉迷于内部对话。
Orlando: And as I always say, the deal's not in the office, the company's not in the office, and the buyer of your company's not in the office. So, you always have to be outward facing. Orlando: 正如我常说的，交易不在办公室里，公司不在办公室里，你公司的买家也不在办公室里。所以，你必须始终面向外部。
Orlando: The second thing is I got the benefit, and so did my senior partners of incredible mentorship. Orlando: 第二点是，我和我的高级合伙人都受益于非凡的指导。
Orlando: I can tell you so many stories about Carl Toma spending time with me in 1998 on the deal we were going to lose. Orlando: 我可以告诉你很多关于Carl Toma在1998年花时间和我一起处理我们即将失败的交易的故事。
Orlando: And I would be like, why did you spend all that time with the CEO and me on his kitchen table? He wanted to teach me how to sell. He wanted to teach me how to do a deal. Orlando: 我当时会想，你为什么花那么多时间在厨房的桌子上和CEO以及我一起讨论？他想教我如何销售。他想教我如何做交易。
Orlando: And and that was just incredible. So if we have too many of those, we can't we can't touch the next generation leadership. Orlando: 那真是不可思议。所以如果我们有太多这样的人，我们就无法接触下一代领导者。
Orlando: So that is that is part of our philosophy. Now how do we raise that money? Look, our first deal, it's always been one step at a time. Orlando: 所以这是我们理念的一部分。那么我们如何募集到这些资金呢？看，我们的第一笔交易，一直都是循序渐进的。
Orlando: Our first deal was 50 million. The second deal was 100 million enterprise value. The third was data at 250 million. Orlando: 我们的第一笔交易是5000万美元。第二笔交易的企业价值是1亿美元。第三笔交易是数据公司，价值2.5亿美元。
Orlando: We didn't buy a company in Silicon Valley till 2010. That was Sonic Wall that we paid 550 million in take private. Orlando: 我们直到2010年才在硅谷收购了一家公司。那是Sonic Wall，我们以5.5亿美元将其私有化。
Orlando: That was our first foray into real cyber in in higher growth businesses. So one little step at a time. Orlando: 那是我们首次真正涉足高增长网络安全业务。所以，都是一步一个脚印。
Orlando: There was a time that we couldn't raise a billion dollars but now we have enough of a following that you know people people what is the role of private equity in the US economy do you think what is the role that it should play? Orlando: 曾经有一段时间我们无法募集到10亿美元，但现在我们已经积累了足够的追随者，你知道人们人们，您认为私募股权在美国经济中扮演着什么角色？它应该扮演什么角色？
私募股权的角色与声誉转变
Orlando: I think it's a great change agent. It's it's a business in a way similar to venture where what matters is the returns that you put up and you have incredible alignment with the sources of capital. Orlando: 我认为它是一个伟大的变革推动者。它在某种程度上与风险投资类似，重要的是你所提供的回报，并且你与资本来源之间有着极高的契合度。
Orlando: They give you the money and if you make the return, you can stay in business. And if they give you the money and you don't make the return, no matter how big we may be, we slowly lose that and and we're out of business. Orlando: 他们给你钱，如果你能带来回报，你就能继续经营。如果他们给你钱而你没有带来回报，无论我们有多大，我们都会慢慢失去这些资金，然后就会倒闭。
Orlando: And and that that alignment is so important because you're such a big change agent to companies. Orlando: 这种契合度非常重要，因为你对公司来说是一个巨大的变革推动者。
Orlando: These software companies are not meant to be owned by the same group for 30 or 40 years. Management gets tired. It's exhausting to run. It's exhausting to be a CRO. Orlando: 这些软件公司不应该由同一个团队拥有三四十年。管理层会疲惫。运营起来很累。担任首席营收官（CRO）也很累。
Orlando: And the more they trade hands. You have somebody with maybe a new idea, maybe a perspective, and maybe a perspective that was right for the company at that time. Orlando: 它们交易的次数越多，就越能引入可能带来新想法、新视角的人，也许这种视角在当时正适合公司。
Orlando: And that buyer like private equity can assume be super entrepreneurial and try to do something special. Orlando: 像私募股权这样的买家可以变得非常具有创业精神，并尝试做一些特别的事情。
David: So Orlando though the the just building on that it clearly has alignment with the investors but maybe you could talk a little bit about the broader alignment with society jobs the reputation of PE sometimes is a bit too cutthroat and if you hear oh a PE a firm bought my favorite brand or our firm got bought by you know our startup got bought by a P firm it's like okay they're going to cut half the people and there's going to be layoffs or maybe this brand is going to get saddled with debt and absolutely gutted for parts. David: 那么Orlando，基于此，它显然与投资者保持一致，但也许您可以谈谈与社会、就业更广泛的一致性。私募股权（PE）的声誉有时过于冷酷无情，如果你听说“哦，一家私募股权公司收购了我最喜欢的品牌”，或者“我们的公司、我们的初创公司被一家私募股权公司收购了”，人们就会觉得“好吧，他们要裁掉一半人，会有裁员”，或者“这个品牌可能会背负债务，然后被彻底拆解出售”。
David: So what's fair or unfair about that sort of PR crisis? Maybe there is with PR with with PE. David: 那么，这种公关危机，对于私募股权来说，有哪些是公平的，有哪些是不公平的呢？
Orlando: That is 100% fair in the 80s, 90s, and maybe early 2000s. Private equity has nothing to do with that. Orlando: 在80年代、90年代，也许还有2000年代初期，这百分之百是公平的。但现在的私募股权与此无关。
Orlando: Now about 50% of the private equity deal volume is in technology. We we do that. We're we we're very narrow. We only do software. Orlando: 现在，大约50%的私募股权交易量都在科技领域。我们就是做这个的。我们的领域非常窄。我们只做软件。
Orlando: If you look at any software deal we've done in the last 12 13 years after SaaS (Software as a Service: 一种通过互联网提供软件服务的模式) became irreversible in '05. Orlando: 如果你看看我们过去12、13年里，自从SaaS在2005年变得不可逆转之后所做的任何软件交易。
Orlando: You're paying 7 to 8 times revenue and the financing on 7 to 8 times revenue is maybe two turns of revenue so you're putting in five to six turns of equity in the company 30% debt 70% equity if you're not building and growing that business especially if it's big nobody's going to buy it from you. Orlando: 你需要支付7到8倍的营收，而基于7到8倍营收的融资可能只有两倍营收，所以你在公司中投入的是五到六倍的股本，即30%的债务和70%的股权。如果你不建设和发展这家企业，特别是如果它规模很大，没有人会从你手中购买。
Orlando: It used to be that for those old school deals if you look at the return two-thirds of the return will come today from the cash flow of the business from your yield and a little bit in the terminal value. Orlando: 过去，对于那些老式的交易，如果你看回报，三分之二的回报来自业务的现金流，即你的收益，只有一小部分来自最终价值。
Orlando: It's flipped about 2/3 or more is terminal value appreciation and you make very little. So you're a growth investor on your yield. We really are we had to transfer to that because look the the lucky thing we had was after I personally made a lot of mistakes 97 to the internet bubble bursting. Orlando: 现在情况反过来了，大约三分之二或更多的回报来自最终价值的增值，而你从收益中赚取的很少。所以你是一个基于收益的增长型投资者。我们确实不得不转向这一点，因为幸运的是，在我个人在1997年到互联网泡沫破裂期间犯了许多错误之后。
Orlando: Carl Toma was going to fire me and this is also true. He he talked about it in his 70th birthday and and he gave me another chance and I said, "Okay, I'm not good at what we were doing then. I'm gonna go for existing management, really established companies and software." Orlando: Carl Toma当时准备解雇我，这也是真的。他在他70岁生日时提到了这件事，他给了我另一次机会，我说：“好吧，我当时不擅长我们正在做的事情。我要去寻找现有管理层、真正成熟的公司和软件。”
Orlando: In 2000, you could buy recurring revenue and software cheaper than in all the other categories that private equity liked. Think about radio, cable, whatever. Rec outdoor advertising, anything. Orlando: 在2000年，你可以以比私募股权喜欢的其他所有类别（比如广播、有线电视、户外广告等）更便宜的价格购买经常性收入 (Recurring Revenue: 公司在特定时期内可预期持续获得的收入) 的软件。
Orlando: So, the partnership said, "Sure, let's try it. Let's try with something small." At that time, you could buy cheap. But what happened is in 2010 after the financial crisis, most of our competitors that were doing those deals and it was heavily competitive then for these smaller transactions, they left the business because now software became super expensive. Orlando: 所以，合伙人说：“当然，我们试试看。从小规模的开始。”那时，你可以买到便宜货。但后来在2010年金融危机之后，我们大多数从事这些交易的竞争对手（当时这些小型交易竞争激烈）都退出了，因为现在软件变得非常昂贵。
Orlando: So there's a but we said chamat but then we said oh instead of complaining that we cannot do what we were doing before because everything changes. Orlando: 所以我们当时说，但我们后来又说，与其抱怨我们不能像以前那样做，因为一切都在变化。
Orlando: Now we have the wherewithal to buy the best and the number one. So let's go for the number one player that can grow. Orlando: 现在我们有能力购买最好和第一名的公司。所以我们要去争取那些能够增长的顶尖公司。
AI时代的挑战与增长策略
David: So you started doing a lot of these SAS deals in 2010. When you sit there with your partners in 2025, is there a risk of SAS being cannibalized from within by AI or you know how it can just be rebuilt in different ways? David: 那么您在2010年开始做了很多SaaS交易。当您在2025年和您的合伙人坐在一起时，SaaS是否会面临被AI从内部吞噬的风险，或者您知道它可能以不同方式重建吗？
David: How do you underwrite it today which is different from how you may would have underwritten it in 2010? David: 您今天如何进行承保，这与您在2010年可能进行的承保方式有何不同？
Orlando: Our investors don't love to hear this because for right our investors especially the large institutions that's kind of our market that those are our our our people that have backed us for a long time besides good returns they need consistency and predictability. Orlando: 我们的投资者不喜欢听到这些，因为对于我们的投资者，特别是那些大型机构，他们是我们的市场，他们是长期支持我们的人，除了良好的回报，他们还需要一致性和可预测性。
Orlando: They would rather have us do what we were doing in 2002 in these deals and why why can't you just keep doing the same thing and it all changes one is there is a big risk of AI in this business I mean in a big big way there's so many verticals that are going to get disrupted there's so many areas that are very confusing and you don't want to touch so it limits the space significantly. Orlando: 他们宁愿我们像2002年那样做这些交易，为什么你们不能一直做同样的事情呢？但一切都在变化。首先，在这个行业中存在巨大的AI风险，我的意思是，有很多垂直领域将受到颠覆，有很多领域非常令人困惑，你不想触碰，这大大限制了发展空间。
Orlando: Even if you believe what we believe which is in the enterprise it's going to take a while because we always say technology is evolutionary not revolutionary because our customers are buying this stuff for cost they want the ROI (Return on Investment: 投资回报率) and you need to see the plan and everything else. Orlando: 即使你相信我们所相信的，即在企业级市场，这需要一段时间，因为我们总是说技术是演进而非革命性的，因为我们的客户购买这些东西是为了成本，他们想要投资回报率，你需要看到计划和其他一切。
Orlando: But one is there's a big disruption and that's and other all these areas we don't get into. Orlando: 但首先，存在巨大的颠覆，而所有这些领域我们都不会涉足。
Orlando: And we have to keep learning and updating ourselves. That's that's a lot of of work that the young people in the firm as well will have to do. Orlando: 我们必须不断学习和更新自己。这也是公司里的年轻人必须做的大量工作。
Orlando: But we have another equally big or even bigger challenge which is if you look at our trajectory, it's not like one day we woke up and said, "Oh, we can do a $10 billion deal." Orlando: 但我们还有另一个同样大甚至更大的挑战，那就是如果你看看我们的发展轨迹，我们并非某天醒来就说：“哦，我们可以做一笔100亿美元的交易了。”
Orlando: No, we we started 50 that trajectory in 2010. We did three billion dollar deals in a row. Orlando: 不，我们从2010年开始，以5000万美元的轨迹起步。我们连续完成了三笔数十亿美元的交易。
Orlando: We bought blue code we took it private. DelTech we took private we bought digital insight from into it. Orlando: 我们收购了Blue Coat并将其私有化。我们收购了Deltek并将其私有化，从Intuit那里收购了Digital Insight。
Orlando: When those worked then we did a $2 and half billion dollar deal that became Dinatrace that was compare. Orlando: 当这些交易成功后，我们又做了一笔25亿美元的交易，变成了Dynatrace，那是Compuware。
Orlando: Then when that worked we did a $5 half billion dollar deal which Dina was here yesterday. That was the business that we sold to NASDAQ and that worked. Orlando: 然后当那笔交易成功后，我们又做了一笔55亿美元的交易，Dina昨天就在这里。那是我们出售给纳斯达克的业务，而且运作良好。
Orlando: But now we're doing $10 billion deals. We have to sell those for 25 to make money. Orlando: 但现在我们正在做100亿美元的交易。我们必须以250亿美元的价格出售这些公司才能赚钱。
Orlando: Wow. Our our alternative here, what we have to underwrite is an IPO (Initial Public Offering: 首次公开募股，指公司首次将其股份向公众出售) at a big discount to the comps when we paid a 30% premium to the comps to buy that company in the first place. Orlando: 哇。我们这里的替代方案，我们必须承保的是以远低于同类公司的折扣价进行IPO，而我们最初购买那家公司时支付的价格却比同类公司高出30%。
Orlando: So, we kind of start 50% in the hole. Well, to do that. So, you have to Anyway, Orlando: 所以，我们一开始就相当于亏损了50%。嗯，要做到这一点。所以，你必须无论如何，
波音交易的洞察与私募股权的收购策略
David: I wanted to ask you this question because I I asked a friend of mine about you and he was competing with you to get the Boeing business and you you bought the Boeing avionics business recently for 10.5 billion, which I think all of us care about because hopefully it'll improve flight safety and all of that other stuff, but we can talk about that in one second. David: 我想问您这个问题，因为我问过我的一个朋友关于您的事，他当时正在和您竞争波音的业务。您最近以105亿美元收购了波音的航空电子业务，我想我们所有人都很关心，因为希望它能提高飞行安全等等，但我们稍后再谈。
David: But he said Orlando's incredibly difficult to compete with because they're so he's so ready to buy the thing he wants to buy and he doesn't really, you know, nickel and dime at the edges. David: 但他说，Orlando非常难以竞争，因为他们非常、他非常乐意购买他想要的东西，他真的不会在细枝末节上斤斤计较。
David: It's like, let's find a fair price and we'll just transact and it makes it very hard for everybody else to compete with. David: 就像是，“我们找到一个合理的价格，然后我们就成交”，这让其他所有人都很难与之竞争。
David: When you get that conviction, are you just willing to just basically put that much money on the line and say, "We're going to figure this out." David: 当您有了这种信念，您是否愿意就这样投入这么多资金，然后说：“我们会搞定这件事的。”
Orlando: We are. Orlando: 我们是的。
David: That's sort of Warren Buffett's mentality, isn't it? That he he already knows all the companies. Is he knows which ones he wants to buy and when they come up that he doesn't nickel and dime he just quickly works out a deal. Is that something is that a mentality that you have? David: 这有点像沃伦·巴菲特的心态，不是吗？他已经了解所有公司。他知道自己想买哪些公司，当这些公司出现时，他不会斤斤计较，而是迅速达成交易。这是您也拥有的一种心态吗？
Orlando: 100%. It all it all fits together with having a small team. We also have a small portfolio. Orlando: 百分之百是这样。这与拥有一个小型团队是相辅相成的。我们的投资组合也很小。
Orlando: So in every fund we'll buy 10 to 12 companies. We we strive for the two core competencies that we try to have. One is buy the best and operate the best and just focus on that in a 3 to four year time frame for our funds for investing our funds. Orlando: 所以在每个基金中，我们会收购10到12家公司。我们努力追求我们试图拥有的两个核心竞争力。一是收购最好的公司，二是运营最好的公司，并在我们基金的3到4年投资期内专注于此。
Orlando: We cannot say with a straight face that there are 30 of the greatest companies that were available to be bought at that time. Orlando: 我们不能一本正经地说，当时有30家最优秀的公司可供收购。
Orlando: Right? So, so that's why and two we cannot say with a straight face that we can try to influence management with everything we learned from an incredible mentor if we had a portfolio of 30. Orlando: 对吧？所以，这就是为什么，第二点是，如果我们的投资组合有30家公司，我们不能一本正经地说，我们可以用从一位了不起的导师那里学到的一切来影响管理层。
Orlando: That's as much as as we can handle. So, we have to go for it. Orlando: 这已经是我们能处理的极限了。所以，我们必须全力以赴。
Orlando: Now, I do want to add that what I love about the private equity business, one of the items is that those deals because the decisions that you make with your partners an hour before the bid is is really really important. Orlando: 现在，我确实想补充一点，我喜欢私募股权业务的原因之一是，这些交易中，你在投标前一小时与合伙人做出的决定真的非常非常重要。
Orlando: It's really telling. Orlando: 这真的很有说服力。
David: Well, can you take us behind the TikTok of this Boeing asset? It's I think it's like a it touches all of us even if most of us don't understand that it even existed actually. David: 那么，您能带我们了解一下波音这项资产的幕后故事吗？我想它触及了我们所有人，即使我们大多数人甚至不了解它的存在。
David: Well, it it basically runs maybe you cannot fly an airplane, right, without Jeppesen and and its system. David: 嗯，基本上，如果没有Jeppesen及其系统，你可能无法驾驶飞机，对吧？
Orlando: And the way the deal started, we called the the CEO of Boeing, actually sent him an email saying, "Hey, we could buy this division and we're paying these these good prices." So, there was some interest. Orlando: 这笔交易的开始方式是，我们打电话给波音的CEO，实际上是给他发了一封邮件，说：“嘿，我们可以收购这个部门，而且我们愿意支付这些好价格。”所以，波音方面表现出了一些兴趣。
Orlando: The process started and there were about 15 private equity groups, all excellent groups involved in the deal. Orlando: 交易过程启动后，大约有15个私募股权集团参与其中，所有都是优秀的集团。
David: But, why would Boeing want to sell its avionics business? I guess maybe start with that like— David: 但是，波音为什么要出售其航空电子业务呢？我想也许可以从这个问题开始——
JL: Yeah, it seems pretty core. It's a good business and I I I'm happy that they decided that. JL: 是啊，这看起来是核心业务。这是个好业务，我很高兴他们做了那个决定。
David: So, you're saying that was a bad decision to sell a cockpit? David: 所以您是说出售驾驶舱是一个错误的决定？
Orlando: We'll take it. Orlando: 我们会接受的。
David: Fair enough. I I wanted to ask you a question about— David: 说得好。我想问您一个问题，关于——
JL: Can we get the answer to that though? What what what is the strategic rational for Boeing to want to sell its avionics business? Is the idea that other plane manufacturers can then use that avionic system? JL: 不过我们能得到那个问题的答案吗？波音想要出售其航空电子业务的战略理由是什么？是不是其他飞机制造商随后就可以使用那个航空电子系统？
JL: I'll give my answer and maybe you can. I think Boeing is in this incredibly difficult position where there's a lot of diffuse things that were happening inside of the business and they had to make a real rationalization. JL: 我先说我的答案，也许您能补充。我认为波音正处于一个极其困难的境地，业务内部发生了许多分散的事情，他们必须进行真正的合理化。
JL: What are the few things we can be good at? So, you know, one of our friends, Brian Utko, was put in charge of new plane development. I think you know, you can guess what's going to happen there. JL: 我们擅长哪几件事？所以，你知道，我们的朋友之一Brian Utko被任命负责新飞机的开发。我想你知道，你可以猜到那里会发生什么。
JL: That's a clear strategic bet. You know, getting the 737 or this the max program back online. That was a clear bet. JL: 那是一个明确的战略押注。你知道，让737或者Max项目重新上线。那是一个明确的押注。
JL: But when you do that, you have all kinds of debt and stuff that you just need to clean out. And sometimes you have to sell. JL: 但当你这样做时，你会有各种各样的债务和需要清理的东西。有时你不得不出售。
JL: And by the way, you are right. Your instincts are right because my friends who called me basically said this is the gem asset inside of Boeing. JL: 顺便说一句，你是对的。你的直觉是对的，因为给我打电话的朋友基本上都说这是波音内部的“宝石资产”。
JL: I mean, he's being very gracious by not you. So yeah, but Jeppesen is the thing that everybody uses. United, Delta, everybody needs this information to fly accurately. JL: 我的意思是，他很宽容，没有说你。所以是的，但Jeppesen是每个人都在使用的东西。美联航、达美航空，每个人都需要这些信息才能准确飞行。
JL: And it was Boeing's business and now it's Orlando's business. JL: 以前是波音的业务，现在是Orlando的业务。
David: Okay. So what's our phone's business? I wish it was like— David: 好的。那么我们的手机业务是什么？我希望它像——
Sax: it's your Orlando. We um we don't buy stuff. We're generally year zero, year one, two investors who help build things, but Sax and I got to watch our friend Elon buy Twitter and um that was quite eye opening. Sax: 这是你的Orlando。我们，嗯，我们不买东西。我们通常是零年、一年、两年的投资者，帮助建设事物，但Sax和我看到了我们的朋友Elon收购推特，嗯，那真是大开眼界。
Sax: It was also the first thing that I think he ever bought in in you know a major way like that. Sax: 我想那也是他第一次以那种重要方式进行收购。
Sax: What is the playbook for coming into one of these technology companies and you have like you said tired management maybe the people who are still saying at this company are the ones who couldn't find other work or maybe weren't as ambitious. Sax: 当你进入一家这样的科技公司，而正如你所说，管理层已经疲惫不堪，也许那些仍然留在这家公司的人是找不到其他工作或者没有那么有抱负的人时，你的行动方案是什么？
Sax: What's it like day zero, day one, day two when you get in there? What's the playbook? What's you know one, two, three, we got to do these things in the first 30 days. Sax: 当你进入公司时，第零天、第一天、第二天是什么样的？行动方案是什么？你知道，第一、二、三，我们在最初30天内必须做这些事情。
改造科技公司：成本削减与人才评估
Orlando: It's almost always the same. We we try to buy companies and Jeppesen is a tweener in that because their margins were about 25%. Orlando: 几乎总是一样的。我们尝试收购公司，Jeppesen在这方面是一个中间地带，因为他们的利润率 (Margin: 销售收入扣除成本后的收益百分比) 大约是25%。
Orlando: But we feel that business can be running like a Denza that we sold to NASDAQ for 50% plus running it like a software company and making the right investments. Orlando: 但我们认为那项业务可以像我们出售给纳斯达克的Denza一样运营，实现50%以上的利润率，像一家软件公司一样运营并进行正确的投资。
Orlando: The the playbook is this. You meet with a company usually a public company that trades for a revenue multiple because they're not that profitable. Orlando: 行动方案是这样的。你与一家公司会面，通常是一家以营收倍数进行交易的上市公司，因为它们利润不高。
Orlando: And our our mentality is we try to turn what we call a good innovator into a good business. Orlando: 我们的心态是，我们尝试将我们所说的“优秀创新者”转变为“优秀企业”。
Orlando: We have all these meetings with management and after we listen a lot to them, we come back to them and we have we put together a plan with them to cut cost. Orlando: 我们与管理层进行了所有这些会议，在认真听取他们的意见后，我们回到他们身边，与他们一起制定了一个削减成本的计划。
Orlando: So there is that element because you have to get in the game with a certain level of fundamental earnings to be able to afford the deal. Orlando: 所以有这个要素，因为你必须以一定水平的基本盈利能力进入游戏，才能负担得起这笔交易。
Orlando: You you you basically are what we're trying to do is turn a revenue multiple day one, say we buy it for six or seven times to an EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization: 息税折旧摊销前利润，衡量公司盈利能力的指标) multiple in day four. Orlando: 我们基本上是想在第一天将一个营收倍数（比如说我们以六到七倍的价格收购）的公司，在第四天转变为一个EBITDA倍数。
Orlando: If that company grew 20% and you achieve a 50% margin, you've done that. Orlando: 如果那家公司增长了20%，并且你实现了50%的利润率，那么你就做到了。
Orlando: And then you say, "What are the comps? What is this thing worth? Is it a 20p a 25p?" A 20p is about 15 times EBITDA. Orlando: 然后你会说：“同类公司是怎样的？这个东西值多少钱？是20倍市盈率还是25倍市盈率？”20倍市盈率大约是15倍EBITDA。
Orlando: You could double your asset value without the benefit of that 30% leverage which you pay down a bit and that's how you create your return. Orlando: 你可以在不利用那30%杠杆（你也会偿还一部分）的情况下，使你的资产价值翻倍，这就是你创造回报的方式。
Orlando: So you you talk we talk to management very openly during the process even before we won the deal even if they're not going to like us etc. Orlando: 所以你、我们会在整个过程中与管理层非常坦诚地沟通，甚至在赢得交易之前，即使他们可能不喜欢我们等等。
Orlando: And we say, "Hey, can we put together a plan where you can make the right investment decisions, but can you cut 15% of the cost of the company at closing?" Orlando: 我们会说：“嘿，我们能否制定一个计划，让你们做出正确的投资决策，但同时在交易完成时削减公司15%的成本？”
Orlando: The deal in private equity, talk about the change agent. If you don't do that at closing in private equity, why are you going to shock the employees afterwards? Orlando: 私募股权的交易，谈到变革推动者。如果你在私募股权交易完成时不做这些，你为什么要事后震惊员工呢？
Orlando: Your 2, three, four, the deal, since everybody's thinking there's a new owner that's going to provide change, gives you the opportunity for immediate change. Orlando: 你的第二、三、四，这笔交易，既然每个人都认为会有一个新主人带来改变，就给了你立即改变的机会。
Orlando: Now, as my mentor Marcel Bernard used to say, he was the greatest operator I've ever met. 35 years at Motorola running different divisions and that was an exceptional school of management. Orlando: 我的导师Marcel Bernard曾经说过，他是我见过最伟大的运营者。他在摩托罗拉工作了35年，管理不同的部门，那是一个卓越的管理学派。
Orlando: No matter how profitable you are, you can always cut 10%. No matter how unprofitable you are, it's difficult to cut more than 20%. Orlando: 无论你多么盈利，你总能削减10%。无论你多么不盈利，都很难削减超过20%。
Orlando: Because you have to change the way people make decisions, the way management interacts, etc. Orlando: 因为你必须改变人们做决策的方式、管理层互动的方式等等。
David: How do you evaluate the talent stack? That was something that actually David was exceptional at during the Twitter acquisition. David: 您如何评估人才储备？在收购推特期间，David在这方面表现出色。
David: And we sat there in a room and he said, "Well, who's exceptional at their job?" And then Elon said, "And who's absolutely critical for this business?" David: 我们当时坐在一个房间里，他说：“那么，谁在自己的工作中表现出色？”然后埃隆说：“谁对这项业务来说是绝对关键的？”
David: And I just walked up to the whiteboard and I drew four quadrants, exceptional, essential. And then there was this sort of exceptional but not essential. David: 我走到白板前，画了四个象限：卓越的、必要的。然后还有一种是卓越但不必要的。
David: And we we we then had a clear Elon proved that you could cut 85% of Twitter and it would still work just fine. David: 然后我们很清楚地看到，埃隆证明了即使裁掉推特85%的人，它仍然能正常运作。
David: And all the journalists were like, "Twitter's going to go down any day now." And then they were like every day they would write the same story. David: 所有的记者都说：“推特随时会垮掉。”然后他们每天都会写同样的故事。
David: Twitter went down and be like, "Oh no, you lost your internet connection on your phone and they'd be like,"No, it's it's not coming up." David: 推特宕机了，然后他们会说：“哦不，你手机上的网络连接断了。”他们会说：“不，它没法启动。”
David: And it's like, "Yeah, yeah, reut the P Wi-Fi password in." And it never went down. It it was pretty crazy. David: 然后就像是：“是啊，是啊，重新输入Wi-Fi密码。”但它从未真正宕机。这真是太疯狂了。
David: But how do you assess talent when you're coming into one of these legacy businesses, you know, 10 years, 20 years into the business? David: 但是，当您进入这些传统企业，已经运营了10年、20年的企业时，您如何评估人才呢？
Orlando: History tells you a lot of that. So you you're trying to identify not everybody's good at everything and it starts with a leader. Orlando: 历史会告诉你很多。所以你试图识别出并非每个人都擅长所有事情，而这始于领导者。
Orlando: If the leader is good, everything is good. If the leader is not good, nothing is good. Orlando: 如果领导者好，一切都好。如果领导者不好，什么都不好。
Orlando: You you don't want to work around them to deal with sales and product and stuff because the nothing is going on. Orlando: 你不会想绕过他们去处理销售、产品等事务，因为那样什么都做不成。
Orlando: Now what does a good leader mean, right? There's so many judgments that come in. Are they is a company hitting bookings? Is it missing? Orlando: 那么，一个好的领导者意味着什么呢？对吧？这里面有很多判断。公司是否达到预订量？是否错失？
Orlando: Are they good at customer service? What's their retention? How do they make decisions? Orlando: 他们的客户服务做得好吗？他们的留存率如何？他们如何做决策？
Orlando: What we look for overall because nobody's perfect is to back what they're look what they're good at. We love to do add-on acquisitions for our company. Orlando: 我们总体上寻找的是支持他们擅长的事情，因为没有人是完美的。我们喜欢为我们的公司进行追加收购。
Orlando: So the reason we like to take out the cost once is the rest is about bookings growth and add-ons. We don't want to revisit margin too much. Orlando: 所以我们喜欢一次性削减成本的原因是，其余的都是关于预订增长和附加业务。我们不想过多地重新审视利润率。
Orlando: We want profitable growth going forward. Let's be done with that and then let's go forward. Orlando: 我们希望未来实现盈利增长。让我们完成这一步，然后继续前进。
Orlando: The leader can stand up in front of the entire employee base and said we needed to do this. This deal probably gave us the courage to do what we need to do. Orlando: 领导者可以站在全体员工面前说，我们必须这样做。这笔交易可能给了我们做我们该做之事的勇气。
Orlando: Let's go. Let's go build the business. So, but we we look at a leader and we say if they're open-minded, if they care about numbers and if they have the following of their employees and customers and really know the business, that is something that we really, really, really try to work with. Orlando: 开始吧。让我们去建立业务。所以，我们看一个领导者，我们说如果他们思想开放，如果他们关心数字，如果他们拥有员工和客户的追随，并且真正了解业务，那正是我们非常、非常、非常努力想合作的。
Orlando: With all the changes we make, we've been pretty contrarian in the industry because we first try to make them with the existing people. Orlando: 随着我们所做的所有改变，我们在行业中一直相当逆向，因为我们首先尝试与现有人员一起进行这些改变。
Orlando: And sometimes, you know, we make a mistake on that and they change their mind, but we we try to do that. Orlando: 有时，你知道，我们在这方面会犯错，他们会改变主意，但我们努力那样做。
David: Before you do a deal, what's the secret to figuring out how good the asset is? Do you go talk to customers, backdoor references? David: 在您进行交易之前，弄清楚资产有多好的秘诀是什么？您会去和客户谈话，进行私下调查吗？
David: Do you go find the employees who quit and started companies and interview them? Like, there's got to be some tricks to assess a company before you even let them know you're interested in them. What are those tricks? David: 您会去寻找那些辞职并创办了公司的员工，然后采访他们吗？就像，在您甚至让他们知道您对他们感兴趣之前，肯定有一些评估公司的诀窍。那些诀窍是什么？
Orlando: All of that. All of that. Now, we've usually owned a competitor or a partner to the company as well and and we've usually known him for a long time. Orlando: 所有这些。所有这些方法。现在，我们通常也拥有该公司的竞争对手或合作伙伴，而且我们通常认识他们很久了。
Orlando: Like we recently announced that we were doing the Day Force deal for 12 billion. My partner Holden Spade met with the CEO of Day Force in 2008 and we've tracked that company for so long watching it when does it miss when does it hit its numbers and everything else. Orlando: 就像我们最近宣布的，我们正在进行一项120亿美元的Day Force交易。我的合伙人Holden Spade在2008年就与Day Force的CEO见过面，我们追踪那家公司很久了，观察它何时达不到目标，何时达到目标，以及其他一切。
Orlando: It's um you get you also once you sign them up or are in a process where the company's giving you all their raw data, you have so much information to make those choices. Orlando: 一旦你与他们签约，或者在公司向你提供所有原始数据的过程中，你就会获得大量信息来做出这些选择。
Orlando: Like for example, a company cannot say that it has really really good product if its gross margins on support are very low. Orlando: 比如，如果一家公司在支持服务上的毛利率非常低，它就不能说自己的产品真的非常好。
Orlando: And we can bring technology people to assess that and we have that on our team and they look at the architecture and the the talent and everything else. Orlando: 我们可以请技术人员来评估这一点，我们的团队里就有这样的人，他们会审视架构、人才以及其他一切。
Orlando: But then you go how come your support calls are so high? It's a bad product. Orlando: 但你接着会问，为什么你的支持电话这么多？那是糟糕的产品。
Orlando: It yeah it it it all fits together. If you have great retention, great margins on support. Orlando: 是的，这一切都吻合。如果你有很高的客户留存率，很高的支持服务利润率。
Orlando: It's like for example take support. Many people look to offshore support and now maybe AI would would get on on that and there's no need for that. Orlando: 比如，就拿支持服务来说。许多人寻求离岸支持，现在也许AI会介入，就不再需要那样做了。
Orlando: What we say is eliminate the reason for the call alto together because there's nothing you can do in product. Orlando: 我们说的是，彻底消除产生电话的原因，因为在产品上你无能为力。
Orlando: So we're evaluating all that. We love it. We geek out over it. Orlando: 所以我们正在评估所有这些。我们很喜欢。我们对此非常着迷。
坚守核心：不上市，培养下一代
David: There's a handful of PE firms obviously that are now lynch pins of the capital markets. Blackstone, Apollo, KKR, Carlile, they're public, they are multistrat. David: 显然，现在有一些私募股权公司是资本市场的关键支柱。黑石、阿波罗、KKR、凯雷，它们都是上市公司，它们是多策略的。
David: They're huge pillars. And I mean, you've built an incredible business. You have the credibility to do it. Is there an impetus to do it? David: 它们是巨大的支柱。我的意思是，您建立了一家令人难以置信的企业。您有能力做到这一点。有没有动力去这样做？
David: Is there an impetus to kind of grow beyond that technology focus? And if not, how do you stay in your knitting? David: 是否有动力超越技术焦点进行增长？如果没有，您如何坚守自己的领域？
David: Because it, you know, how do you do that? How where does the discipline come from? David: 因为，你知道，你是怎么做到的？这种纪律性从何而来？
Orlando: Look, I I think um we are very pure to our investor base and our colleagues, the two of them at the same time. Orlando: 看，我想我们对我们的投资者基础和我们的同事都非常纯粹，这两者兼顾。
Orlando: What I say matters to them is the return. So what matters for us to grow the business is get the money, get the deal, improve the deal. Orlando: 我对他们来说，重要的是回报。所以对我们来说，发展业务的关键是获得资金、达成交易、改进交易。
Orlando: Going public does not help any of those things for us. That that's that's number one. Orlando: 上市对我们来说，无助于上述任何一点。这是第一点。
Orlando: Two is we're really I'm just so grateful. I I really really am for my mentors. I mean, Carl Toma gave me and my partners the company, right? Orlando: 第二点是，我真的非常感激。我真的非常感激我的导师们。我的意思是，Carl Toma把公司给了我和我的合伙人，对吗？
Orlando: And he mentored us. So, we want to do the same thing for the next generation. Orlando: 他指导了我们。所以，我们也想为下一代做同样的事情。
Orlando: And we actually feel we'll make more money by investing behind the next generation when that time comes than by going public and having a great day and a great multiple and and then what? Orlando: 事实上，我们觉得，当那个时候到来时，通过投资下一代，我们会比通过上市、拥有一个辉煌的一天和高估值来赚取更多的钱，然后呢？
Orlando: So, so far we're just going to we're just going to stay where we are. Orlando: 所以，到目前为止，我们只是会保持现状。
波多黎各的未来：州地位的讨论
David: As we wrap, I I just want to ask you a question about Puerto Rico again, where we started. You're the first Puerto Rican billionaire. David: 在我们结束之前，我只想再问您一个关于波多黎各的问题，也就是我们开始的地方。您是第一位波多黎各裔的亿万富翁。
David: I understand it's um it's just a number obviously, but should Puerto Rico become the 51st state? David: 我明白这显然只是一个数字，但是波多黎各应该成为美国的第51个州吗？
David: You know, we we have Trump talking about Greenland, whatever. Um you know, we have these ambitions. David: 你知道，我们有特朗普谈论格陵兰，等等。嗯，你知道，我们有这些雄心。
David: The people of Puerto Rico seem to want to have a deeper relationship with America. It seems profoundly unfair that they're in this, you know, sort of middle state. David: 波多黎各人民似乎希望与美国建立更深层次的关系。他们处于这种，你知道，中间状态，这似乎是极其不公平的。
Orlando: Yeah. It's such a divided place. The turnouts in elections in Puerto Rico when I was a kid used to be like 90%. Orlando: 是的。那是一个如此分裂的地方。我小时候波多黎各的选举投票率通常高达90%。
Orlando: It's a whole festival in the island when elections happen between the party that wants the status quo and the party that wants statehood. Orlando: 当选举在主张维持现状的政党和主张成为州的政党之间进行时，整个岛屿都像是在过节。
Orlando: Now, the party that wants statehood has grown quite a bit and some of the tax incentives of being um kind of in this Commonwealth status have gone away. Orlando: 现在，主张成为州的政党已经壮大了不少，而且作为联邦属地的一些税收优惠也消失了。
Orlando: I'm going to say something I've never said before and I I do believe it'll be better for Puerto Rico to be a state if the US would allow that. Orlando: 我要说一些我以前从未说过的话，我确实相信，如果美国允许的话，波多黎各成为一个州会更好。
Orlando: I'm for it. I'm here for it. Ladies and gentlemen, Orlando Bravo. Orlando: 我支持它。我为此而来。女士们先生们，Orlando Bravo。
Orlando: Thanks, man. Orlando: 谢谢，伙计。
David: Wow. Thank you. Incredible, huh? I'll talk to you soon. David: 哇。谢谢您。太棒了，是吧？我们很快再聊。
Sax: Great job. Thank you. Amazing. Sax: 干得好。谢谢。太棒了。