导言：阿拉斯加选票上的两个“丹·沙利文”
这里是《纽约时报》，我是迈克尔·巴巴罗（Michael Barbaro）。这是《The Daily》。参议院的控制权可能取决于丹·沙利文（Dan Sullivan）。但究竟是哪个丹·沙利文？《纽约时报》的一项新调查揭开了真实的故事：两位名叫丹·沙利文的不同候选人究竟是如何双双登上阿拉斯加州联邦参议员选票的，以及民主党人在促成此事中所扮演的秘密角色。
英文原文
From the New York Times, I'm Michael Bubaro. This is the daily [music] control of the Senate may come down to Dan Sullivan. But which Dan Sullivan? A new investigation from the Times [music] has uncovered the real story of how two different candidates [music] named Dan Sullivan ended up on the ballot for US Senate in [music] Alaska and the secret role that Democrats played in making it happen.我说的是真正的丹·沙利文，不是那个假丹·沙利文，不是民主党人推出来的那位丹·沙利文。
英文原文
>> I'm talking about the real Dan Sullivan, not the fake Dan Sullivan, not the Dan Sullivan put up by the Democrats.这个假丹·沙利文根本不是为了赢而参选，他是为了操纵选举而参选。
英文原文
>> This fake Dan Sullivan guy is not in it to win it. He's in it to rig it.那不过是个同名同姓的家伙，肮脏的伎俩。
英文原文
>> It's just a guy with the same name, Dirty Trick.今天，政治记者凯伦·布朗宁（Kellen Browning）带我们走进这场政治计谋的内幕，并解释这对于一场可能决定哪个党派控制美国参议院的竞选意味着什么。今天是10月29日，星期四。凯伦，欢迎来到《The Daily》。很高兴你能来。
英文原文
>> Today, political reporter Kellen Browning takes us inside the political scheme and explains what it now means for a race that could determine which party controls the US Senate. It's Thursday, October 29th. Kellen, welcome to the Daily. It's nice to have you here.好的，谢谢你们邀请我。
英文原文
>> Yeah, thanks for having me.我的荣幸。你带给我们的内容，我认为完全称得上是本次中期选举截至目前最大的压哨重磅爆料，毕竟距离大选只剩几天时间了。那么请告诉我们，你都发现了什么？
英文原文
>> My pleasure. You come to us with what I think may qualify as the biggest lastminute revelation of this midterm election, at least as of this moment with just a few days left before the election. So tell us about what you found.阴谋指控与否认：候选人名单上的第四人
是的，几个月来，阿拉斯加的共和党人一直在对当地的参议员竞选大声抗议。他们有一位竞选连任的共和党参议员，名叫丹·沙利文。但在今年5月，另一位丹·沙利文加入了竞选，他们立即指出，这显然是民主党试图混淆选民阴谋的一部分，因为下周阿拉斯加的选票上将有四位候选人。民主党人玛丽·佩尔托拉（Mary Peltola）是其中之一；共和党人丹·沙利文参议员是另一位；然后选票上还会出现另一个丹·沙利文。因此共和党人表示，这显然是民主党的某种计谋，旨在诱使选民投错丹·沙利文。嗯。但几个月来，这位丹·沙利文一直坚称他是自愿参选的。包括玛丽·佩尔托拉竞选团队在内的民主党人也表示，他们与这位丹·沙利文没有任何联系，
英文原文
>> Yeah, for months in Alaska, Republicans have been crying foul about the Senate race there. They have a Republican senator running for re-election named Dan Sullivan. But back in May, another Dan Sullivan entered the race and they immediately said this is obviously part of a Democratic plot to confuse voters because in Alaska there will be four candidates on the ballot next week. Mary Pelola, a Democrat, is one of them. Senator Dan Sullivan, the Republican, is another. And then there's going to be another Dan Sullivan on the ballot. And so Republicans said this was clearly some sort of Democratic plot to get voters to vote for the wrong Dan Sullivan. Mhm. But for months, this Dan Sullivan has said he entered the race on his own accord. And Democrats, including Mary Poto's campaign, have said they have no connection to this Dan Sullivan,对吧？民主党人在这一点上态度非常坚决。“我们与此毫无瓜葛，这纯粹是疯狂的共和党阴谋论。”
英文原文
>> right? Democrats have been really emphatic on this point. We had nothing to do with this. This is just a crazy Republican conspiracy theory.没错。在共和党人试图通过法律手段将他移出选票（最终失败了）的整个过程中，民主党人一直坚持这一立场。甚至就在上周也是如此——当时特朗普总统的司法部提起了一项诉讼，试图在另一个丹·沙利文获得的选票足以阻碍沙利文参议员获胜的情况下，挑战该州选举结果的认证。
英文原文
>> Yeah. Democrats have maintained the stance throughout legal efforts by Republicans to remove him from the ballot, which ultimately failed. And that was even true as recently as last week when President Trump's Justice Department filed a lawsuit seeking to challenge the certification of the election if it turns out the other Dan Sullivan receives enough votes that prevent the Senator Sullivan from winning.是的。而这正是你的爆料发挥作用的地方。
英文原文
>> Right. And this is where your revelations come to bear.是的。相反，我的报道发现事实根本不是这样。事实上，玛丽·佩尔托拉竞选团队以及全国民主党内部的人员，参与了一项可追溯至去年的大胆而秘密的计划，旨在通过操控选票候选人名单偏向佩尔托拉，来帮助玛丽·佩尔托拉获胜。
英文原文
>> Yeah. Instead, my reporting found that's simply not true. In fact, Democrats with the Mary Pelto campaign and with a national party engaged in an audacious, secretive plan dating back to last year designed to help Mary Pelo win by stacking the ballot in her favor.基本上，你发现民主党人在试图让丹·沙利文登上选票这件事上卷入得极深，这是一次重大独家新闻，坦率地说，可能会改变许多人对这场关键竞选的看法。我很想了解，你是如何揭开这个让丹·沙利文登上选票的秘密计划的。我知道这是一个相当错综复杂的故事，而且花了很多功夫才理清。
英文原文
Basically, you found that Democrats could not have been more involved in trying to get Dan Sullivan on the ballot, which is a major scoop and may frankly change the way a lot of people feel about this crucial race. And I want to understand how you came to uncover this secret scheme to get Dan Sullivan on the ballot. I know it's a pretty tangled tale and it took a lot of work to figure out.是的。对我来说，这个故事要回溯到今年1月。当时前国会女议员、民主党人玛丽·佩尔托拉加入竞选，挑战阿拉斯加州的丹·沙利文参议员。沙利文是一名共和党人，自2015年起担任阿拉斯加州联邦参议员。他是特朗普的坚定盟友，并且在该州建立了相当深厚的关系，[哧笑]但玛丽·佩尔托拉被视为可能是唯一一个能对沙利文参议员构成威胁的人选。
英文原文
Yeah. The story for me goes back to January when Mary Pelah, a former congresswoman and Democrat, jumped into the race to challenge Senator Dan Sullivan in Alaska. He's a Republican who has served as Alaska's senator since 2015. He's a strong Trump ally and he's made pretty deep relationships in the state, [snorts] but Mary Pelo was viewed as maybe the one person that could pose a threat to Senator Sullivan.那是[清嗓子]因为她在2022年爆冷赢得了代表该州唯一的众议院席位。她在两党阵营中都颇受好评。她是第一位当选国会议员的阿拉斯加原住民，而且在阿拉斯加左翼阵营中堪称某种政治明星，甚至不仅仅局限于左翼。因此，人们都知晓她，选民们也喜欢她，大家都预感这场竞选将会相当激烈。
英文原文
>> That's [clears throat] because she won an upset race in 2022 to represent the state in its sole house seat. She was wellliked across the aisle. She was the first Alaskan native elected to Congress and she was just sort of a political celebrity on the left in Alaska. and not even just on the left. So, people knew of her. She was wellliked by voters and there was a sense that this race was going to be quite competitive.当然，正如我们从民调中所知，特朗普眼下的民意支持度极低。因此，如果说存在一个时机，让像阿拉斯加这样偏红的州可能会接纳一位民主党参议员，大概率就是这次选举了。
英文原文
>> And of course, as we know from polling, Trump is deeply unpopular in this moment. So, if there's ever going to be a moment where perhaps a state as red as Alaska might be open to a Democratic senator, it's probably going to be this election.是的，完全正确。特别是阿拉斯加目前承受着极高的生活成本。在阿拉斯加的农村地区，每加仑汽油的价格已经飙升至8美元。哇。所以人们生活艰难，有一种感觉认为本届政府难辞其咎。因此，民主党人希望能抓住这种经济焦虑，并将参议员丹·沙利文描绘成罪魁祸首之一。竞选活动原本就是这样推进的，直到5月份突然间，丹·J·沙利文（Dan J. Sullivan）宣布参选。这立刻演变成一条全国性新闻，每个人都想知道他的动机是什么。他是真诚参选吗？他没有做太多说明，基本上很少公开发声。所以我决定，唯一能查明真相的办法，就是坐飞机亲自去一趟阿拉斯加。
英文原文
>> Yeah, exactly. And Alaska in particular is suffering from a very high cost of living. In rural areas of Alaska, the price of a gallon of gas is rising to up to $8. Wow. So, people are struggling and there's a sense that the administration is to blame. So, Democrats were hoping to seize on that economic anxiety and paint Senator Dan Sullivan as one of the culprits. So, that's what the campaign looked like when all of the sudden in May, Dan J. Sullivan jumped into the race. It immediately turned into a national story with everybody wondering what his motivation was. Was he running in good faith? He wasn't explaining himself very well. He wasn't speaking very much at all. So, I decided the only way to figure it out for sure was to get on a plane and head to Alaska.嗯。那你到了那里之后发生了什么？
英文原文
>> Mhm. And what happened when you got there?前往彼得斯堡：与丹·J·沙利文的接触
我原本预计自己会在极小的彼得斯堡（Petersburg）街头四处走访寻找线索，那是丹·J居住的一个渔村。我当时并不认为他会愿意理我，因为直到那时为止，他几乎没有跟记者说过什么话。因此我想的是去敲他的家门，看看有没有认识他的邻居，或者去和镇上的商家聊聊。但令我惊讶的是，就在我准备飞往彼得斯堡的前一天，他回复了我，说他很乐意聊聊，甚至很乐意去机场接我和我的摄影师。
英文原文
>> I had been expecting that I would be walking around the streets of tiny Petersburg, a fishing village where Dan J lives, searching for clues. I didn't think he would engage with me because he had not talked to reporters very much up until that point. So, I thought I would knock on his door, try to see if there are any neighbors that know of him, maybe talk to businesses in the town. But to my surprise, the day before I was set to fly to Petersburg, he responded to me and said he'd be happy to talk and he would even be happy to pick me and my photographer up from the airport.呵。真是客气。
英文原文
>> Huh. How courteous.没错，确实如此。非常感谢你来接我们。
英文原文
>> Yes, exactly. appreciate the ride.他接我的时候穿得非常休闲，一件灰色T恤和短裤。对于阿拉斯加那时的季节来说，天气出奇地暖和。
英文原文
>> When he picked me up, he was dressed very casually in a gray t-shirt and shorts. It was unseasonably warm for that time of year in Alaska.我们就当这是带你参观一圈吧。
英文原文
>> We'll sort of treat this like a a tour.好啊。
英文原文
>> Yeah.免费导览。
英文原文
>> Free tour.在我们驱车兜风时，他跟我多讲了一些他自己的情况。
英文原文
>> And while we were driving around, he told me a little bit more about himself.哇。你在彼得斯堡住了多久了？
英文原文
>> Wow. How long have you lived in Petersburg?46年里的大部分时间。
英文原文
>> For the most part of 46 years.哇。
英文原文
>> Wow.我去南方上过几次学，但这地方一直都是我大部分时间的大本营。他说除了是一名退休教师之外，他还是彼得斯堡的一名志愿消防员，而且曾经在该镇的当地艺术委员会任职。
英文原文
>> I've been south a few times for school, but this has always been home base for for most of that time. He said that in addition to being a retired teacher, he was also a volunteer firefighter for Petersburg and he had once served on the local arts council in the town.那真不错。
英文原文
>> That's beautiful.如果可以的话，我们可以坐在海滩上或者什么地方。
英文原文
>> We can sit on the beach or something if that's okay.行，我完全没问题。
英文原文
>> Yeah, it's good with me.哇，这太棒了。
英文原文
>> Wow, this is amazing.这是旅游套餐的一部分……呃……涨潮了。
英文原文
>> Part of the tour package here um high tide.他带我们驱车前往这个美丽的水畔公园，俯瞰水面和阿拉斯加大陆的山峦。那里有……
英文原文
>> He drove us to this beautiful park overlooking the water and the mountains of mainland Alaska. There's那边正好有一头鲸鱼。真的吗？
英文原文
>> a whale right there. Oh, really?哦，哇。
英文原文
>> Oh, wow.那是一头座头鲸。
英文原文
>> That's a humpback.哇。太不可思议了。
英文原文
>> Wow. That's That's amazing.我们坐在那里，某一刻甚至看到几头座头鲸浮出水面，打断了我们的采访。所以那景象相当如诗如画。
英文原文
>> We sat there and we even saw some humpback whales at one point that surfaced and interrupted our interview. So, it was quite the picturesque scene.那么现在，你准备离开这一切去华盛顿当一名参议员？你真的想离开这个世外桃源吗？
英文原文
>> Now, you're ready to to leave all this to go to Washington and be be a senator. Does that is that you want to leave this paradise?呃，好吧，我是对这个世外桃源感到担忧，所以或许那样表述更好一点。
英文原文
>> Uh, well, I'm worried about this paradise, so maybe that's that's a better way to put it.好的。然后我切入了每个人都想知道的那个问题：你为什么加入这场竞选？
英文原文
>> Okay. Then I got down to the question that everyone wanted to know. Why did you get into this race?我认为任何人参选的理由都是不满现状。而我们让这位参议员当了12年了，并且……
英文原文
>> I think the reason anybody runs is they're dissatisfied with what's going on. And we've had the senator for 12 years and觉得我们需要有所改变。我……我愿意站出来去做这件事。
英文原文
>> think we need a change. I'm I'm willing to step up and do that.他表示自己是一名温和派共和党人，受够了丹·沙利文参议员的政策，想着也许可以试试参与角逐。而且他说，他生活中多年来一直有人开玩笑说，既然他和那位参议员同名，就应该去跟沙利文参议员竞争。
英文原文
>> He said that he was a moderate Republican who was fed up with Senator Dan Sullivan's policies and thought he might throw his hat in the ring. And he said that people in his life for years had been making jokes that he should run against Senator Sullivan because he shared the guy's name.“你是那个好的丹·沙利文。我真希望你是我们的参议员，而不是那个糟糕的。”面对和你同名同姓的人，你心里会有这种直观的联结。
英文原文
>> You're the good Dan Sullivan. I wish you were our senator instead of bad. There's a this visceral connection you have with someone who has your own name.镇上甚至有些人直接管他叫“参议员”。[笑声][哧笑]
英文原文
>> Some people even called him senator around town. [laughter] [snorts]我觉得共和党没必要非得是MAGA党。我觉得……
英文原文
>> I don't think the Republican party needs to be the MAGA party. I think在整个采访过程中，丹都非常渴望谈论他对共和党以及当前政治局势的看法。
英文原文
>> throughout the interview, Dan was eager to talk about his thoughts on the Republican party and the state of politics.这么说来，你并不是特朗普的粉丝了。
英文原文
>> I take it you're not a Trump fan then.嗯……我想我不是。
英文原文
>> Um I don't think so.关键疑点：竞选背后的协助者
但是当我追问他是究竟如何进入这场竞选、是否有其他人帮助他时，他开始犹豫起来。
英文原文
>> But he grew hesitant when I pressed him about how he actually got into the race and whether somebody helped him.是的。
英文原文
>> Yeah.佩尔托拉阵营、任何民主党团体、或者其他任何人，是否在指使你做这件事并与你进行协调中扮演了某种角色？
英文原文
>> Did the Palaha camp, any Democratic group, anyone else play a role in putting you up to this and coordinating with you?没有，你并没有跟他们聊过。那我接下来想问关于安珀·李（Amber Lee）的事。是她帮着提交了你最初的参选意向声明，或者最初的……呃……候选人材料吗？她，或者是她男朋友还是其他人？是的。
英文原文
>> No, you haven't talked to them. And then I want to ask about Amber Lee. She what helped file your initial statement of interest or initial um candidacy papers? Her or her her boyfriend or something? Yeah.好的。你是怎么找到她的？
英文原文
>> Okay. How did you find her?我们此前已经通过法律文书和共和党的调查得知，阿拉斯加一位名叫安珀·李的民主党顾问曾实际协助他提交参选申报。
英文原文
>> We knew already from legal filings and Republican investigations that a woman named Amber Lee, a Democratic consultant in Alaska, had helped him actually file to run for office.只是为了对你公平起见。是的。我……我不想……我没人想聊那个，因为现在正在发生的那些事。
英文原文
>> Just to be fair to you. Yes. I'm I'm not gonna I don't no one chat about that because of the stuff that's going on.好的。
英文原文
>> Yeah.所以……呃，出于对她和对我的公平，
英文原文
>> So, um in all fairness to her and me,他告诉我，他找到安珀·李纯粹是通过网上搜索，没有任何人指使他做这件事，
英文原文
>> he told me that he found Amber Lee simply by doing an online search and that nobody had put him up to this,但他不愿再进一步谈论她，也不愿谈及自己与她的任何关联。
英文原文
>> but he didn't want to talk about her further or any of his connections to her.那告诉我，为什么你不想……我知道你说过你特别不想对安珀·李置评。呃，有很大一部分是因为……呃……司法部不断发出的那些威胁吗？
英文原文
>> And tell me why you are not you I know you said you didn't want to comment on on Amber Lee particularly. Um there's a lot of this that because of um these DOJ threats that keep是的。
英文原文
>> Yes.不断浮现，或者……呃……
英文原文
>> surfacing or um我只是一个普通人，他们感到害怕。
英文原文
>> I'm just a guy and they're scared.是的。
英文原文
>> Yeah.嗯……
英文原文
>> Um他说他感到害怕，因为针对他的参选正有调查在进行，这倒是真的。
英文原文
>> he said that he was afraid because there were investigations going on about his run, which was true.但他确实向我承认，他有给民主党候选人投票和捐款的历史。他曾在玛丽·佩尔托拉以往的某次竞选中捐过少量款项，并且表示佩尔托拉竞选众议员时他也投了她的票；但他坚称，这些都不能在某种程度上证明他是试图在这场竞选中帮助民主党人的扰局搅局者（spoiler）。
英文原文
>> But he did admit to me that he had a history of voting for Democratic candidates and of donating money to them. He gave small amounts of money to Mary Pelah in a previous campaign of hers and he said he had voted for her when she ran for the house, but he said that none of that was in some way proof that he was a spoiler trying to help Democrats in this race.我们拿上行李箱，然后……
英文原文
>> We'll grab our suitcases and噢，好的。行。
英文原文
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.是的。再次感谢你抽出时间。谢谢你。好的，没问题。
英文原文
>> Yeah. Again, appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. So, yes.好，保重。
英文原文
>> Okay. Take care.好的。保重，丹。
英文原文
>> All right. Take care, Dan.明白了。按照他的说法，他只是一名碰巧也叫丹·沙利文的阿拉斯加普通公民，他反对共和党参议员丹·沙利文的政策，更广泛地反对特朗普领导的共和党，于是决定基本上以独立人士的身份竞选联邦参议员。
英文原文
>> Got it. So in his telling, he's just an Alaskan citizen who happens to also be named Dan Sullivan who objects to Republican Senator Dan Sullivan's policies to Trump's Republican party more broadly and decides he's going to run for United States Senate basically as an independent.没错。这就是他的说法。他说同名在某种程度上只是巧合，他至今仍坚持这一说法。
英文原文
>> Exactly. That's his story. He says it's sort of coincidence that he has the same name and he's still sticking to it.嗯。但你最终对他讲的这套说法怎么看？在你看来这感觉真实吗？
英文原文
>> Mhm. But what do you end up thinking about the story he's telling? And does it feel truthful to you?我当然持怀疑态度，因为他不想谈论自己究竟是如何进入这场竞选的具体细节。他有没有跟谁沟通过？他基本上把那部分轻描淡写地略过了。与此同时，这又具有合理性。并非不可能。我是说，我无法完全确定，我没有确凿证据。所以我离开阿拉斯加这个偏远角落时，心中的疑问比答案还要多。
英文原文
>> I was skeptical for sure because he did not want to talk about the minutia of how he got into this race. Did he speak with anybody? He sort of brushed past that. At the same time, it was plausible. It's possible. I mean, I I I didn't know for sure. I didn't have proof. So, I left this remote part of Alaska with more questions than answers.这么说，在相信还是不信丹·J·沙利文的光谱上，你听起来处于中间位置。[哧笑]
英文原文
>> So on the spectrum of you believing Dan J. Sullivan or not, you're somewhere, it sounds like in the middle. [snorts]转折点：佩尔托拉团队内讧与幕后真相浮出
是的，我认为这么说很公允。但随后在这场竞选的民主党阵营发生了一件事，最终彻底揭开了整个秘密。
英文原文
>> Yeah, I think that's fair. But then something happened on the Democratic side of this race that ultimately blew the whole thing open.就在几天后，当我在阿拉斯加安克雷奇时，民主党候选人玛丽·佩尔托拉做出了相当反常的举动。她解雇了她的一批幕僚。而这些人当时都是已经跟随她多年的资深竞选助手。
英文原文
>> H just a few days later, while I was in Anchorage, Alaska, the Democratic candidate, Mary Pelah, did something pretty unusual. She fired a handful of her staffers. And these were veteran campaign aids who had been with her for many years at this point.在如此临近选举的关头，对任何候选人来说这都是相当戏剧性的举动。
英文原文
>> That's a pretty dramatic thing for any candidate to do that close to the election.是的，确实如此。这让我开始对她的竞选团队内部究竟在发生什么产生疑问。那促使我进行了大约一个月的延伸调查，报道玛丽·佩尔托拉那边究竟出了什么状况。为什么员工会被解雇，以及他们对她的评价如何？
英文原文
>> Yeah, it is. And it made me start asking questions about what was happening with her campaign. That led me on a whole tangent for about a month where I was reporting on what was going on with Mary Pelo. Why were staff fired and how did they feel about her?[哧笑]
英文原文
>> [snorts]我了解到的是，她的许多前员工认为她是一个虐待下属的糟糕老板。
英文原文
>> And what I learned is a lot of her former staffers felt that she was an abusive boss.他们的指控小到相对次要的问题——例如有一次，她要求员工喂她家的宠物变色龙，变色龙的名字叫“肉丸”（meatball），而且只吃活蟋蟀。有一次在她在国会任职期间，他们不得不把“肉丸”带到她的国会办公室喂养，结果活蟋蟀跑了出来，员工们不得不四处重新抓捕。这是他们觉得低于自己职责要求或者在某种程度上贬低员工尊严的一个例子。但也有更严重的指控，称她经常对员工进行言语攻击，使用侮辱性词汇贬低员工和他人，有一次甚至在国会办公室推搡了一名助手。
英文原文
>> Their accusations ranged from relatively minor issues such as at one point she required her staff to feed her family's pet chameleon which is named a meatball which only ate live crickets. At one point they had to feed meatball in her congressional office when she was in Congress and these live crickets escaped and staff had to recapture them. So that was an example where they felt this was uh beneath their duties or or somewhat demeaning of employees. But there are more serious accusations too that she verbally assaulted staff members on a regular basis, used offensive slurs to describe them and other people and at one point even shoved an aid in her congressional office.哇。
英文原文
>> Wow.我应当指出，佩尔托拉竞选团队对其中的许多说法予以否认，或者表示这些是前员工夸大其词。那么凯伦，这个延伸调查——你跑去做的关于这位民主党候选人及其相当不同寻常的管理风格的报道——是如何把你带回到丹·沙利文事件的？
英文原文
>> I should note that the Pela campaign has denied many of these stories or said that they were exaggerated by former staff members. So, Kellen, how does that tangent, that reporting you go off to do about the Democratic candidate and her rather unusual management style, how does that bring you back to the Dan Sullivan saga?玛丽·佩尔托拉在8月份解雇的员工中，有一位是她的竞选经理，一位名叫阿莉莎·里奥斯（Alisa Rios）的女士。我开始与阿莉莎·里奥斯交谈，她告诉我一个相当令人难以置信的故事：关于丹·J·沙利文身上究竟发生了什么，以及民主党人在他的参选中扮演了怎样的角色。最终，我得以证实她告诉我的事情是真实的。
英文原文
So, one of the employees Mary Pela fired in August was her campaign manager, a woman named Alisa Rios. I began talking to Alisa Rios, and she told me a pretty incredible story about what really happened with Dan J. Sullivan and the role Democrats played in his candidacy. And ultimately, I was able to confirm that what she told me was true.我们马上回来。
英文原文
We'll be right back.招募行动：“搜寻所有的丹·沙利文”
凯伦，一旦你证实了这个说法，关于另一个丹·沙利文究竟是如何进入这场阿拉斯加州联邦参议员竞选的，你最终了解到了什么？
英文原文
Kellen, once you confirm this account, what do you end up understanding about how the other Dan Sullivan really ended up in this US Senate race in Alaska?这就是我了解到的情况。去年夏天，佩尔托拉的高级助手与民主党资深操盘手聚在一起。他们担心共和党可能会耍某种手段，推出另一个民主党人进入选票以分流玛丽·佩尔托拉的选票。因此，他们决定先发制人。
英文原文
Here's what I learned. Last summer, top Pelola aids huddled up with senior Democratic operatives. They were concerned that the Republican party could play some sort of trick and get another Democrat on the ballot to take votes away from Mary Poto. So, they decided they would strike first.引人入胜。他们制定了一个招募其他候选人进入参议员选票名单的计划。其目的是分化共和党选民，并寄希望于其中一些人会投票给选票上的这些替代候选人，从而剥夺沙利文参议员的选票，并间接让民主党人玛丽·佩尔托拉获益。
英文原文
>> Fascinating. They came up with a plan to recruit other candidates onto the Senate ballot. And the goal was to divide Republican voters and hope that some of them would vote for these alternative candidates on the ballot, depriving Senator Sullivan of a vote and indirectly benefiting Mary Pelto, the Democrat.作为这项努力的一部分，佩尔托拉的一名工作人员接到指示，要列出一份阿拉斯加州所有叫丹·沙利文的人的名单——阿拉斯加所有的丹·沙利文。
英文原文
>> As part of that effort, a Palaha staff member was instructed to create a list of the Dan Sullivans in Alaska. all of the Dan Sullivanss in Alaska.是的。他们能找到的 যত多就找多少。
英文原文
>> Yeah. As many of them as they could find.那么佩尔托拉竞选团队和这些民主党操盘手最终是如何说服这其中一位丹·沙利文真正参选的呢？
英文原文
>> And how does the Pela campaign and these Democratic operatives ultimately persuade one of these Dan Sullivans to actually run?据我们所知，这群民主党高层在阿拉斯加当地引入了一名现场操盘手。他是来自俄亥俄州的资深民主党人，名叫贾里德·库尔茨（Jared Kurtz）。[音乐]据我了解，贾里德·库尔茨的招募工作并不局限于名叫丹·沙利文的人。库尔茨的工作是招募可能对竞选参议员感兴趣的人，[音乐]从本质上塞满选票名单。
英文原文
>> So, what we know is this group of top Democrats brought in an operative on the ground in Alaska. He was a veteran Democrat from Ohio named Jared Kurtz. [music] And what I learned was that Jared Curts's recruitment effort was not limited to just Dan Sullivan's. Curts's job was to recruit people who might be interested in running for Senate and [music] essentially pack the ballot.[哧笑]
英文原文
>> [snorts]我们知道他至少与阿拉斯加当地的少数几个人谈过话，偶尔使用化名试图掩盖自己的幕后雇主。因为正如你可以想象的，他试图把共和党人推上选票，而那些人可能不会很愿意成为民主党阴谋的一部分。[音乐]他撒了谎。是的。我是说，我采访过一个人，他说自己遇到一个自称赞恩（Zayn）的家伙。这就是库尔茨当时使用的化名。对方对他说：“嘿，你有没有考虑过竞选参议员？你觉得怎么样？我们真的很希望你能去参选。”但这名男子并没有告诉这位潜在候选人他到底在为谁工作，或者这项推动计划的幕后黑手是谁。
英文原文
>> And we know that he spoke with at least a handful of people in Alaska, occasionally using pseudonyms to try to obiscate who he was working for because, as you can imagine, he was trying to get Republicans on the ballot and they would probably not be very amendable to being part of a Democratic plot. [music] He lied. Yeah. I mean, I talked to somebody who said he met a guy named Zayn. This is the pseudonym that Curts was going by. And he said, "Hey, have you ever considered running for Senate? what do you think? We really think you should do it. But this guy was not telling this would be candidate who he was working for or who was behind this push.嗯。
英文原文
>> H并且[音乐]贾里德·库尔茨会定期向佩尔托拉的助手和全国民主党人组成的团队汇报自己的进展。在其中一次通话中，他告诉他们，自己已经与住在彼得斯堡的一位名叫丹·J·沙利文的男子取得了联系。[音乐]他在那次通话中告诉大家的是，这位丹·沙利文对竞选参议员的想法持开放态度——如果这能帮助玛丽·佩尔托拉的话。因为这位丹·沙利文不喜欢特朗普，他其实并不是真的想成为一名政客，但如果能有所帮助，他会考虑参选。
英文原文
and [music] Jerk Herz was giving periodic updates on his progress to this group of Pelola aids and national democrats. On one of these calls, he told them that he had made contact with a man named Dan J. Sullivan who lived in Petersburg. [music] What he told him on this call was that this Dan Sullivan was open to the idea of running for Senate if it would help Mary Pelola because this Dan Sullivan didn't like Trump and he didn't really want to be a politician, but he would consider doing it if it would be helpful.这么说来就很清楚了：丹·J·沙利文并不是某天早上醒来突然决定竞选联邦参议员的。他是受到了这些民主党人的推动与敦促，而这些民主党人非常渴望他作为能够伤害沙利文参议员并帮助玛丽·佩尔托拉的角色加入竞选。
英文原文
>> And so what becomes clear is that Dan J. Sullivan did not wake up one morning and just decide to run for US Senate. He was nudged by these Democrats who very much wanted him to enter the race as someone who would hurt Senator Sullivan and help Mary Pelo.没错，确实如此。当然，我们无法知道丹·J·沙利文脑子里到底在想什么。他之前是否已经在考虑这件事了？但他肯定是在贾里德·库尔茨这个人的推动下才这样做的。我们甚至知道，回溯到5月下旬，就在丹·J宣布参选前不久，贾里德·库尔茨人就在彼得斯堡。他在电话里把这件事告诉了别人。而且我们认为，选票上的第四位候选人很可能也是贾里德·库尔茨招募的。
英文原文
>> Yeah, exactly. And of course, we can't know what was in Dan J. Sullivan's head. Was he already thinking about this? But he certainly was nudged into doing this by this man Jared Kurtz. We even know that uh shortly before Dan Jay announced his run going back to late May that Jared Kurtz was in Petersburg. He told somebody that over the phone and we think that it's possible Jared Curts also recruited the fourth candidate on the ballot.他的名字叫杰拉尔德·希基斯（Gerald Hikis）。
英文原文
>> His name is Gerald Hikis.他是一名共和党人，原本在竞选众议院席位，他告诉我有人接触过他并敦促他竞选参议员。我们无法像确认其他几个人那样百分之百确认那人就是贾里德·库尔茨，但他确实被某个人找过并劝说他应该竞选参议员。
英文原文
>> He's a Republican. He was running for the House and he told me that he was approached by somebody who urged him to run for Senate. We don't have a positive confirmation this was Jared Curts in the same way we do with some of these other people, but he certainly was approached by somebody telling him he should run for Senate.这么说，这个计谋实际上有可能导致了选票上出现了两名被招募的候选人。
英文原文
>> Well, so it's possible that this scheme actually resulted in two candidates being on the ballot.有这种可能。而且我应该指出，佩尔托拉竞选团队和全国民主党官员一直坚称他们与此事毫无关系。
英文原文
>> It's possible. And I should note the Pelo campaign and the national Democratic officials have continued to maintain that they didn't have anything to do with this.法律挑战、排序复选制与政治冲击
嗯。那么你的报道对你之前提到的特朗普阻止认证阿拉斯加参议员竞选获胜者的法律行动到底意味着什么？看起来你在报道中的发现，可能会强化特朗普政府提出的论点——前提是假设这里发生的事情在任何层面上是违法的，而这似乎是一个重要问题。
英文原文
>> H So what does your reporting ultimately mean for what you mentioned earlier, Trump's legal effort to block certification of the winner of the Alaska Senate race. It would seem like what you found in your reporting might strengthen the argument that the Trump administration is putting forward, assuming that what happened here is in any way illegal, which seems like an important question.我们没有发现任何明显违法的证据。操纵候选人名单堆叠（ballot stacking）是过去两党都采用过的一种策略，甚至阿拉斯加的共和党人就在今年早些时候还用过——当时反佩尔托拉的超级政治行动委员会（super PAC）在初选阶段出资支持民主党候选人，手法非常类似。法律专家表示，司法部的诉讼案情并不强。另外值得注意的是，阿拉斯加州最高法院此前已经就选票上有两个丹·沙利文是否会混淆选民的问题做出了裁决。他们认定这是可行的，允许两个丹都留在选票上。选举部门通过中间名首字母将他们区分开来，将其中一个名字简写为丹（Dan），另一个写为丹尼尔（Daniel）；而且参议员在选票上被标注为现任者（incumbent）。因此，已经采取了相关措施，试图让选民明白谁是参议员，谁是挑战者。
英文原文
We didn't find any evidence of something clearly illegal here. And ballot stacking has been a strategy employed by both parties in the past, including by Republicans in Alaska as recently as this year when antipela super PACs spent money boosting Democratic candidates in the primary in a very similar manner. Legal experts have said that the Justice Department lawsuit doesn't have a strong case. And it's also worth noting that the Alaska Supreme Court already ruled on the question of whether having two Dan Sullivans on the ballot could confuse voters. They said that it was okay. It was allowed to have both of those Dan on the ballot. The elections division has differentiated them by middle initial by shortening one of the names to Dan. The other one's Daniel. And the senator is listed on the ballot as an incumbent. So, there have been steps taken to try to make clear to voters who's the senator and who's the challenger.让我在这里停顿一分钟，因为看过阿拉斯加选民的样本选票后，我觉得这确实可能会让某些人感到稍微有些困惑。我是说，“丹尼尔·J·沙利文”（Daniel J. Sullivan）的名字正好排在现任参议员“丹·S·沙利文”（Dan S. Sullivan）的正上方。而唯一能告诉你谁是谁的信息，是丹·S·沙利文名字旁边一个大多为小写字母的括号附注，写着“注册共和党人”，紧接着下一个词是“现任”。所以是的，上面确实有区分两个丹·沙利文的信息，但在这张选票上并不是极其醒目。
英文原文
>> Let me just pause on this for a minute cuz having looked at a sample ballot for voters in Alaska, it does seem like this could for some be slightly confusing. I mean, the name Daniel J. Sullivan is right on top of Dan S. Sullivan, the incumbent. And the only information that tells you which is which is a mostly lowercase parenthetical next to Dan S. Sullivan's name that says registered Republican and then the next word is incumbent. So yes, there's information there that differentiates the Dan Sullivans, but it's not hugely prominent on this ballot.[哧笑]是的，确实是这样。这也是共和党人所担忧的。他们担心共和党选民会被搞糊涂，把票投给丹·J·沙利文，从而让他拿走选票，而丹·S·沙利文参议员则无法从该选民那里获益。我应该说明的是，阿拉斯加采用一种称为排序复选制（ranked choice voting）的投票制度。它允许你按偏好顺序对选票上的全部四名候选人进行排序。因此，如果你是一名完整填写选票的共和党人，比方说你把丹·J排在第一位，但把现任参议员丹·S·沙利文排在第二位，最终他还是会得到你的选票，因为我们预计丹·J·沙利文不会有竞争力。当他们在这个排序复选制度下清点选票时，他会被淘汰出局。那种情况可以缓解部分困惑。
英文原文
[snorts] >> Yeah, that's true. And it's what Republicans are worried about. They are concerned that a Republican voter will be confused, will vote for Dan J. Sullivan, and he will get the vote, and Dan S. Sullivan will not benefit from that voter. I should note that Alaska has a system called ranked choice voting. It allows you to rank your all four candidates on the ballot in order of preference. So, if you're a Republican that's fully filling out your ballot, you rank Dan J first, let's say, but you rank Dan S. Sullivan, the incumbent senator second. He will ultimately get your vote because we anticipate Dan J. Sullivan will not be in contention. He will be eliminated as they tally the votes in this rank choice system. That scenario could mitigate some of this confusion.明白了。但这似乎无法平息特朗普政府的怒火——他们已经关注到了你的报道，似乎感到非常、非常恼火。我确信总统在修辞上会把这纳入他更大的论调中，即民主党正在——用他的话说——试图“窃取选举”，即便最终让这另一个丹·沙利文登上选票是合法的，而且即便这种策略在美国政治中相当普遍。
英文原文
Got it. But it would not seem to mitigate the fury of the Trump administration which has absorbed your reporting and seems very very agitated by it. And I have to believe that the president will incorporate this into his larger argument rhetorically that Democrats are trying in in his words to steal elections even if ultimately getting this other Dan Sullivan on the ballot was legal and even if this tactic is somewhat common in American politics.是的，我可以告诉你，就在几分钟前，特朗普总统在Truth Social上发帖，称现已查明阿拉斯加的民主党人——用他的话说——“非法搜寻并招募了一名叫丹·沙利文的男子，来与我们杰出的共和党参议员竞争”。现在，“非法”这个词固然是一个存在争议的说法，但你可以看到他们已经在采纳这种论调了。
英文原文
Yeah, I can tell you that just a few minutes ago, President Trump posted on Truth Social saying that it had been determined that Democrats in Alaska, he says, quote, "Illegally searched for and recruited a man named Dan Sullivan to run against our distinguished Republican senator." Now, the word illegal is certainly a disputable claim, but you can see that they are already adopting this argument.嗯。归根结底，凯伦，这似乎真的变成了一个伦理问题，我想，关乎我们对民选官员、特别是对参议员的期望。我是说，参议院可以说是行政部门之外全美最具声望的民选公职了。人们也许会料到招募同名候选人的事可能发生在市议会竞选，或者某个区长竞选中——在这里我有点带纽约本土偏见了——但不一定会发生在联邦参议员的竞选中。那么，你认为你这篇明确揭露民主党物色招募了另一个丹·沙利文、试图混淆对方选民的报道，在阿拉斯加选民中会引起怎样的反响？
英文原文
>> Mhm. In the end, it seems, Kellen, this really becomes a question of ethics, I guess, and what we expect from our elected officials, especially our senators. I mean, the Senate is arguably the most prestigious elected office in the country outside of the executive branch. And you might expect that recruiting a candidate with the same name would happen in a city council race or a, you know, burough president race. Here I'm being a little parochial about New York, but not necessarily a race for the United States Senate. So, how do you think your reporting that makes clear that the Democrats went and recruited this other Dan Sullivan and tried to confuse voters on the other side is going to land with voters in Alaska?我想会有一些民主党人认为，在特朗普时代，当他们觉得民主制度面临威胁时，这正是该党需要采取的全方位策略。当然，也会有许多共和党人对此怒不可遏。我认为沙利文参议员在竞选的最后几天完全可以大加利用这一点。但许多选民可能根本不在乎丹·J·沙利文是如何登上选票的。他们关注的是自己的生活，关注的是经济、汽油价格，以及贯穿整个竞选的所有这些现实问题。
英文原文
>> I think there will be some Democrats who say this is the kind of allout tactics the party needs to embrace in the Trump era when they feel that democracy is on the line. And of course, there will be many Republicans who are furious about this. I think Senator Sullivan could make a field day out of it in the closing days of the race, but many voters may simply not care about how Dan J. Sullivan got on the ballot. They're focused on their lives. They're focused on the economy, gas prices, all of these things that have been an issue throughout this race.这是一场极其焦灼、竞争激烈的竞选，[音乐]现在要准确判断局势将如何发展还为时过早，但有一件事我们可以肯定：民主党人绝不希望这个内幕曝光，他们当然也绝不希望它在距离大选仅剩几天的时候被揭露出来。
英文原文
This is an incredibly close competitive race, and [music] it's too early to tell exactly how this will play out, but there's one thing we know for sure. Democrats did not want this story to come out and they certainly did not want it to come out just days before the election.好的，凯伦，非常感谢你。我们由衷感谢。
英文原文
>> Well, Kellen, thank you very much. We really appreciate it.谢谢你。
英文原文
>> Thank you.尾声与新闻速报
[音乐]您可以在《纽约时报》应用程序上阅读凯伦·布朗宁以及我们整个政治报道团队的更多内容。《纽约时报》在限定时间内在应用内免费提供所有的选举报道。在那里，您将找到深度分析、[音乐]民调追踪器以及贯穿整个中期选举的实时动态更新。另外，如果您是首次下载纽约时报应用，您可以[音乐]免费阅读[哧笑]我们所有的报道内容30天。欢迎尝试。
英文原文
[music] You can read more from Kellen Browning and our entire political desk on the New York Times app. The Times is making all of its election coverage free inside the app for a limited time. There you'll find in-depth analysis, [music] poll trackers, and live updates throughout the midterms. Plus, if it's your first time downloading the NYT app, you can [music] access all of our journalism [snorts] free for 30 days. So, give it a try.我们马上回来。
英文原文
We'll be right back.以下是您今天[音乐]还需要了解的其他消息。西班牙官员将周三早晨发生的一起造成至少68人死亡的严重火车相撞事故归咎于人为失误。事故发生在托莱多市（Toledo）附近，当时一列高速客运[音乐]列车追尾了另一列客车。
在碰撞发生前不久，列车调度员[音乐]通知其中一列火车继续行驶，尽管在同一轨道前方约15英里处停着另一列火车。[音乐]西班牙交通部长称该决定“令人费解”。
这起事故发生的数月前，西班牙曾发生另一起致命相撞事故，涉及相同的铁路运营商[音乐]和相同路线。在今年1月份的那起事故中，有46人[音乐]丧生。
[音乐]今天的节目由莱克西·迪亚尔（Lexi Dial）、安娜·弗利（Anna Foley）和卡洛斯·普列托（Carlos Prieto）制作，埃里克·克鲁普克（Eric Krupke）提供协助。本期节目由玛丽亚·伯恩（Maria Burn）和佩奇·考特（Paige Cowat）编辑。配乐包含艾丽西亚·鲍普（Alicia Baup）、[音乐]丹·鲍威尔（Dan Powell）和玛丽安·洛萨诺（Marian Lozano）的作品。音频工程由克里斯·伍德（Chris Wood）完成。我们的主题[音乐]音乐由Wonderly创作。
今天的《The Daily》就到这里。我是[音乐]迈克尔·巴巴罗。明天见。