带着感恩与乳腺癌共存：资深主播 Cynthia Mulligan 的生命韧性与觉醒

Nam Kiwanuka: You're listening to (Mis)Treated. I'm Nam Kiwanuka. On today's episode, I get to speak with someone who I deeply admire and love, celebrated journalist Cynthia Mulligan. To quote ODB and Mariah Carey's song, "Fantasy," Cynthia and I go way back, "like babies and pacifiers". That's a picture of me as a young journalist working as a videographer at CHUM. And that's a picture of journalist Cynthia Mulligan, one of the first videographers at CHUM. Cynthia was so supportive of me all those years ago, and she still is to this day, a great mentor and a friend.

In 2010, when Cynthia was first diagnosed with breast cancer, her girls were just six and ten years old. Cynthia did something which was phenomenal and groundbreaking at the time: before Instagram or TikTok were created, she publicly shared she had breast cancer and documented her experience for Citytv. Without a doubt, Cynthia has played a critical role in raising breast cancer awareness in Canada.

In 2020, days before Christmas, she found out that she had stage four breast cancer. Cynthia hopes that with the research being done around breast cancer, one day, it will become treated as a chronic illness. She recently sent me an email, and she said it's okay if I share it with you. She writes, "I had another scan. It shows no evidence of disease. It has been that way for more than a year and a half. I am so lucky and so very grateful." Cynthia Mulligan joins me now. Welcome to the podcast.

Cynthia Mulligan: Oh, thank you. I'm thrilled to be here.

Nam Kiwanuka: Could you please introduce yourself?

Cynthia Mulligan: My name is Cynthia Mulligan. I'm a mom of two amazing young girls, young women now. They're still my girls, but they're...

Nam Kiwanuka: Yeah, always your babies.

Cynthia Mulligan: ...22 and 26 now, which is incredible to me. I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a partner, and I work at CityNews. I've been there for over 30 years, covered politics extensively, and now I'm the anchor of the 5 and 6 newscast.

Nam Kiwanuka: Well, you were first diagnosed with breast cancer in April of 2010. How would you describe these last 16 years from when you were first diagnosed with breast cancer?

Cynthia Mulligan: Ooh... (Exhaling sharply) Wasn't expecting that question. It's been a roller coaster. But I will say that, when I was first diagnosed, my daughters were little and my marriage had just ended, and they were only six and ten, and I was determined to get through it for them. I had to. I wanted to raise my daughters. I wanted to instil every positive thing I could into them.

And so, I was really conscious at the time of, "I have to live, and I have to do this right. I have to get through this well - mentally, physically - for them." So, I made some promises to myself back then that I was going to learn and I was going to grow. And because of them, I found a strength I didn't know I had to get through it. Kids can be, um... You know, when you hear those stories of how a mom can pick up a car off her child?

Nam Kiwanuka: Yes.

Cynthia Mulligan: That kind of thing.

Nam Kiwanuka: So, when you found out, those are the promises that you made to yourself?

Cynthia Mulligan: Yes.

Nam Kiwanuka: Because to honour your children.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yes. And I didn't want them to be terrified, so I tried to exhibit strength. And I would say to them, like, "Look how beautiful the people in our lives are," because, you know, as I said, my marriage had just ended. My girlfriends became a network of support; they were like a safety net. And if I had a chemo, they would come and stay over, and they would cook.

And I asked my daughters today, "What do you remember of those times?" Because I find it fascinating 16 years later, "What do you remember?" And they said, "We remember laughing a lot with your friends," you know? So, they don't remember it as a horrible, terrible time, which was my goal.

Nam Kiwanuka: Mm-hmm. Well, you shared-- when you were first diagnosed, you created a blog...

Cynthia Mulligan: I did.

Nam Kiwanuka: ...and you shared this publicly, and we learned about how, like, when you went to chemo and radiation, you wore one of your daughter's, like, little tiaras.

Cynthia Mulligan: CYNTHIA: I did.

Nam Kiwanuka: NAM: Which was so sweet.

Cynthia Mulligan: She asked me to. Yeah.

Nam Kiwanuka: Yeah. And so, and then, in 2011, you shared that you had beat the cancer. And then, in 2021, your breast cancer returned. You posted the news online, and part of what you wrote was this: "All I ask is that, when you see me, don't see someone who is sick. See someone who is loving every second of this glorious thing we call life. I'm not living with cancer, it's just hitching a ride on my amazing life." Why was this important for you to share?

Cynthia Mulligan: Because, I think, if-- if people treat you like you're sick, it erodes your confidence. Somebody, a couple of years ago, said to me - and it was interesting because they suffer from a different disease - and they said, "Well, at least I'm not facing imminent death like you."

Nam Kiwanuka: NAM: No!

Cynthia Mulligan: And I felt like they punched me in the face.

Nam Kiwanuka: Oh my gosh.

Cynthia Mulligan: I don't want that. I don't want people to look at me like that. I don't want people to think of me like that, because it erodes you, I think, right? I don't want that seeping into my very carefully curated fortress around me of, "I'm okay, I'm good."

Nam Kiwanuka: Mm-hmm. Because it kind of makes you feel-- Does it make you feel exposed?

Cynthia Mulligan: It does. It does. It's like, "Don't look at me like that. I don't want to look like that" because I'm not looking at me like that. I'm looking at me like I'm getting up every day, I'm living this amazing life. I'm lucky; I have a great life.

People may think-- may be surprised to hear me say, "I'm one of the luckiest people in the world," but I think it's because I appreciate life more, because most of us don't stare at our own mortality every day; we ignore that. We all know we're going to die one day, but most people aren't faced with it regularly. I actually... I choose-- and it's a choice. I choose to take that as a reminder that life is really precious.

Nam Kiwanuka: I think we are afraid of death.

Cynthia Mulligan: Of course. We don't talk about it.

Nam Kiwanuka: What has it taught you about yourself? Because this is something that you are at peace with.

Cynthia Mulligan: I'm not really at peace with dying, actually.

Nam Kiwanuka: Yeah. Tell me more about that.

Cynthia Mulligan: Um... I'm not ready. So, I... The way I'm dealing with it, like, this could shorten my life, right? And it will. But what I want to do is pack as much beauty and-- and incredible moments into the time that I have and live a longer and better life than somebody who makes it to 100, right? It's not how long you live; it's what you do in the time that you have, and that's what I'm focusing on.

Nam Kiwanuka: You are so generous in not just, like, talking about this, because we know a lot of people who hold that stuff close to their chest, and you don't find out that they were navigating something behind the scenes until the very end.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah, and I respect that.

Nam Kiwanuka: Yes. There's no judgment, of course, because everybody manages their life the best they can. But you were first diagnosed in 2010. You were open with your diagnosis from the very beginning, and as I mentioned, you did a blog for CityNews. You won the Edward R. Murrow Award for that. And you've described this journey as a solitary experience. Why did you share right from the beginning?

Cynthia Mulligan: A number of reasons. One, I wanted to work. I knew, for me, that working - because my career and work has been a big part of my life - I wanted to carry on with that. And I thought I would look quite different, right? I had to wear a wig. And so, I felt that I should be honest about it.

But the other thing is, for many years, I had covered so many stories and people had shared the worst moments of their lives with me, and really devastating, like losing a child or a fire and they've lost everything, and they had the courage and the grace to share with me what they were going through, and I actually felt that I needed to do that to pay back, as well, and honour-- honour them, if that makes any sense.

I just felt it would be so disingenuous of me not to share as well and try and help other women because it is hard. It's really hard, and it's really scary going through breast cancer and the surgeries. And really, it attacks your femininity in so many ways - losing my hair. I wanted to share that, so that other women didn't feel alone as well.

I was still in shock as I began the first of six chemotherapy sessions, each one making me feel sicker, but each one was also shrinking the tumour that was threatening my life. My hair started falling out shortly after that first round.

Nam Kiwanuka: Were you ever nervous about talking about what you were navigating with your health when it came to work?

Cynthia Mulligan: No, no, because work was so incredibly supportive, incredibly supportive. Back in 2010, at the beginning, to this day, they have been really remarkably supportive and understanding.

Nam Kiwanuka: That's amazing to hear because you hear a lot of the negative things, and this is part of the reason why I was hoping that we could talk, because you have had support from your work. How would you describe the experience you've had going through the medical system?

Cynthia Mulligan: I have had an incredible experience, unlike yours. But I do feel like breast cancer is so incredibly common - I hate to say it; it's common - that there is a greater understanding around breast cancer than pain, for example. I was listening to your podcast on chronic pain and how it's really misunderstood and mistreated for women.

That has not been my experience, although I do know people who-- someone very close to me not so long ago, and I'm still devastated by it, had, you know, something suspicious in their breast, and they said, "Oh, come back in six months, it's nothing, but we'll just keep an eye on it." Well, six months later, now they have a double mastectomy, right? It's just that-- that just is devastating and it was so unnecessary. It could have been preventable, to have gone that far, that fast. But my experience has been remarkable.

Nam Kiwanuka: It's so good to hear that.

Cynthia Mulligan: Mm-hmm. And I credit Princess Margaret. First of all, my GP, Dr. David Satok. Princess Margaret, I have to give a shout-out to Dr. Philippe Bedard, and-- who was my oncologist in 2010 and again now - I'm-- I'm his repeat customer. (Laughing) And there's this magnificent woman, Simi Malhotra, who is my clinical trial nurse, and she's brilliant. So, I'm lucky.

Nam Kiwanuka: I'm so happy to hear that. That's how it should be for everybody who's navigating.

Cynthia Mulligan: CYNTHIA: Yes, yes.

Nam Kiwanuka: And it's so good to hear the positives, and... as we navigate some of the challenges. You are a forward-facing person, and how you look is, unfortunately, a part of your job. When you were doing the vlogs, I thought it was really special, in the sense that you were actually showing people going through chemo. You went through radiation, as well. And there was a video of you where your hair was coming out, and I thought that was so-- that was such a gift to people because I think part of navigating the disease is you don't know, like, what it is.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah.

Ariane is so comfortable. She makes me feel better about being bald, and she gives me the courage to do something I've been thinking about for a while. Should I?

I think 100% you should.

Okay, hang on. Here we go. (Gasping) Look how beautiful you are. See? You have a small head like me. Ta-da. Just like me. Okay, I'm only doing this once.

Nam Kiwanuka: NAM: Why did you do that?

Cynthia Mulligan: Because I was able to mask it really well. I mean, you know, if you buy a great wig and you sort of paint on your eyelashes and eyebrows, um, but really, I was sick. I was really sick. So... And the chemo was really tough. In fact, my oncologist told me recently they don't do that same chemo for women anymore. They've stopped that particular kind because it's too hard, unnecessarily hard. Because they're learning, right, still as they go. Um... And it was honest and raw. It's being authentic. It's doing what I ask people to do, we do, in our jobs.

Nam Kiwanuka: On those days where-- you said about the masking, which is such an interesting word, because, even now, for this interview, I have the makeup on, and you know, I usually don't look like... (Both laughing) My poor husband, he's like...

Cynthia Mulligan: Same. (Laughing)

Nam Kiwanuka: What was it like for you navigating what was going on in your body with how you presented on camera?

Cynthia Mulligan: It was challenging, right? Um... As well as with my daughters. My six-year-old, Hillary, when I was first diagnosed, and I said to them, you know, "I'm not sick, but there's something in my body that will make me sick unless I get it out, and I'm going to look kind of funny as we get it out," and I explained that I was going to lose all my hair and I'd wear a wig, and she started to cry, and she was really worried that people would laugh at me. "And what if your wig fell off, Mommy?" And she asked me to not go outside without a wig on, because she was protective of me, right? So...

I always took care because-- you know, there's this great charity that I support, It's called Look Good, Feel Better, and I really believe that if you-- for me, if you are masking it to the world, you're also projecting and you feel better. "Fake it until you make it" kind of...

Nam Kiwanuka: Yeah.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah, it helps.

Nam Kiwanuka: The fact that you're raising awareness about your hair because that-- when you completed the first cycle, you actually gave your hair, your wig, away.

Cynthia Mulligan: I did.

Nam Kiwanuka: Because I think it's not something people think about. They're expensive.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah. You know, that was a human hair wig. It's probably, today, $9,000. A lot of women can't afford that, so I wanted someone else to have it.

Nam Kiwanuka: Earlier this year, you won the Canadian Screen Award for Best News Anchor, Local.

Cynthia Mulligan: I did.

Nam Kiwanuka: And your speech, I was there; I was like, "Aah!" (Chuckling) Um... Just the person that you are, you spoke with love about your team, about your workplace, and you shared that your workplace was not only supportive of your cancer diagnosis, they gave you a promotion. And part of your acceptance speech, you said this...

Who knew that somebody with stage four breast cancer would be given such an honour and an opportunity? And I want to thank my team for standing by me.

But you turned down that promotion for months.

Cynthia Mulligan: I did.

Nam Kiwanuka: Why did you? And why did you finally accept it?

Cynthia Mulligan: I turned it down because I love being an in-the-field journalist. And I-- you know, the last number of years of my career, I've covered politics - probably the majority of my career - and I loved it, and I thrived on it.

So, when my then news director, Jon Whitten, who's fantastic, fantastic man, um, he asked me to do it-- because we hadn't had an anchor at City for ten years. We had gone anchorless, and we had reporters self-introducing their stories, but he wanted to change that. So, he asked me to do it, and I'm like, "I'm not an anchor. I'm a journalist. I'm in the field, messy hair, you know, running around."

There are a number of reasons I took the anchor job after a few months, and one was, by then, I had been re-diagnosed, and it was gruelling because I'm in the hospital at least twice a month, getting blood work done, seeing my oncologist. I'm on a clinical trial, so they watch you very, very closely. And there were days I'd be at Queen's Park, I'd come in in the morning and then I'd run to-- luckily, it's down the street; I'd run to Princess Margaret, I'd get my blood work done, and then I'd work on my computer in the waiting room, I'd go see the oncologist, and then I'd go back to Queen's Park and do scrums while they're getting my meds ready for me, and then I'd run back again, and then I'd run back again, and... (Exhaling sharply) ...it was exhausting, it was tough. So... um...

And then-- and then, my news director said, "I really need you; I think you're the right person to do this," and he slowly wore me down, and I went, "Okay, I'll do this." So, it was a combination of things. And I work really hard as an anchor, but it's not as-- you know, your phone doesn't ring at 6 a.m., and it's like, "Your camera's picking you up in 15 minutes and you're going to Sarnia because Doug Ford's speaking there," right? It's a little less chaotic.

Nam Kiwanuka: Do you miss that?

Cynthia Mulligan: Yes, I do, very much. The adrenaline, right? It's the adrenaline. I swear it's addictive.

Nam Kiwanuka: Yeah, yeah.

Cynthia Mulligan: But it's just amazing to be there in person, in the moment, and watching all of this unfold. And covering politics is watching a chess game, right? It's fascinating.

Nam Kiwanuka: Can you take me back to that moment when you found out that you had been re-diagnosed with breast cancer, but this time it was stage four?

Cynthia Mulligan: It was two days before Christmas, and we're in the middle of COVID.

Nam Kiwanuka: So, 2020?

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah, it was 2020. Um... It was ironic, because I was hitting my ten-year mark, and I had been on tamoxifen for ten years, and I had one month's left supply. And I've always had a cyst on my ovaries, and sometimes, it throbs a little bit. And I was at Women's College in the after-cancer care clinic. My oncologist fired me after five years: "You're breaking up with me." So, I was in this after-cancer care clinic at Women's College, and I would go for an annual mammogram ultrasound.

And I said, "Hey, when we do the ultrasound, do you mind if we just check that cyst, because maybe it's grown or something?" And she's like, "Okay." So, it was found by fluke, because, during that ultrasound, they saw two spots on my liver. And initially, the doctor said, "Oh, don't worry about it. You're ten years; you're gold. It doesn't come back after ten years. Don't worry about it." So, I went for another test; it was inconclusive. And then, I went for another test, and that wasn't inconclusive.

So, two days before Christmas, I was shattered. I was really shattered, um... because I thought I was good, and I had been doing everything right: lots of exercise, eating well, living well. It was-- it was a blow.

Nam Kiwanuka: It's not your fault, though.

Cynthia Mulligan: It's no one's fault, right?

Nam Kiwanuka: Mm-hmm.

Cynthia Mulligan: I never thought it was my fault. I've always thought, "It's my turn."

Nam Kiwanuka: Really?

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah.

Nam Kiwanuka: Tell me more about that.

Cynthia Mulligan: I think interviewing so many people at the worst moments of their lives, you have a greater sense of the tragedies that people face. Very few of us get through life unscathed. So, I always just thought, "It's my turn." It was never, "Why me?" It's just, "It's my turn."

Nam Kiwanuka: It must have been really hard, um, to tell your children that it was back.

Cynthia Mulligan: I waited for a while. It was actually harder to tell them as young women than it was as little girls.

Nam Kiwanuka: How come?

Cynthia Mulligan: Because they understand more. Six and ten, you can kind of control the narrative more. You can't when they're 20, not so much. And I-- you know, they've always been aware and they've always been afraid of it coming back because they've had friends' mothers die of breast cancer.

You know, my eldest, when she was maybe in grade ten, her friend's mother died, and she had beat it and then it came back and she died, and Gwen was-- we were just sitting at dinner and she started to cry, and she said, "Promise me it won't come back." And I said, "I can't, but I can promise you I'll do everything to make sure it doesn't, to try and prevent it from coming back."

Nam Kiwanuka: I think you've also taught them to listen to their bodies.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yes.

Nam Kiwanuka: Because the way this was caught, it was you listening to your body.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yes. Yeah. Fluke.

Nam Kiwanuka: What does a stage four breast cancer diagnosis mean?

Cynthia Mulligan: It's not pretty. You know, the first words you hear are "three to six years." I'm five and a half.

Nam Kiwanuka: So, that is on your mind.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. But I try and keep it in a tiny little black box locked at the very back of my mind that I don't let out and open up very often. I've recently had an-- and... just in the last couple of weeks, so I'm on a clinical trial and, um, when I went on it five and a half years ago, my oncologist said, "Look, one of the drugs that you're going to be on typically only lasts two and a half years because the cancer outsmarts the drug."

So, I'm five and a half years, and so, I've surpassed the expectation on that drug. But when I went on this clinical trial, I created this sort of narrative, right? And I'm going to call it wilful, knowing...

Nam Kiwanuka: Compartmentalization?

Cynthia Mulligan: No. Self-- self-induced, uh, blindness, shall we say. And I do it knowingly and consciously, but because I don't want to think-- like, I just thrive on hope, right? I'm living in hope and because I am-- you know, I am surpassing the expectations.

But this clinical trial, I went on it because the early stages of it showed that this was better than the traditional treatment for what I have, because there are so many different treatments for... because every cancer is different.

Nam Kiwanuka: A breast cancer diagnosis is completely out of your control. And your girls were so young when you were first diagnosed. How did you manage those moments when you had to reconcile that this was something out of your control, but perhaps that you had to stay in control?

Cynthia Mulligan: So, I'll tell you a story. As I mentioned, my girls were six and ten when I was first diagnosed. My marriage had just ended, and it's a weekend morning, and we're at the local pool and they're getting their swimming lessons, and they're so little.

Nam Kiwanuka: Right? I miss those days, yeah.

Cynthia Mulligan: And they're so little. And I'm sitting by the edge of the pool, numb, and I'm watching my girls. And I kept thinking to myself, "I have to be here for them. I have to live long enough so that I know they're going to be okay, that I have set them on the right path. I've gotten them through school. I have infused them with all my love and my blanket of protection that will last them the rest of their lives," and I had to do that.

So, two or three months ago, my youngest, who's 22, um, she went to TMU, journalism. She sent me a text - I was out of town - and she sent me a text, and she's just graduated, and she said, "Mom, I made the dean's list."

Nam Kiwanuka: Wow.

Cynthia Mulligan: I started sobbing, and I couldn't figure out why. Like, I was happy for her, of course, and she's worked really hard, and I just couldn't stop crying. And then, I thought, "It's that moment at the pool, and I did it, I did it. I made it. I made it long enough. She's okay." And my eldest has already graduated, so she's my second one. I did what I needed to do. Doesn't mean I'm done yet, but I-I did it, and that... meant the world to me.

Nam Kiwanuka: You... Your... You know... Congratulations to your baby.

Cynthia Mulligan: Thank you. And I told her that story. I've told them both that story, you know.

Nam Kiwanuka: Yeah. It's like they gave you strength.

Cynthia Mulligan: They did.

Nam Kiwanuka: And you were their strength.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah. I don't know if I could have done this without them. They inspired me to do it, and they still do.

Nam Kiwanuka: Mark Dailey is someone that we both worked with.

Cynthia Mulligan: (Exhaling sharply) Yeah. Yeah.

新闻播报录音: NEWS ANCHOR: Mark Dailey was known as the voice of Citytv. Dailey announced he was fighting prostate cancer in 2004 and openly spoke about his experience with the public.

Nam Kiwanuka: Amazing, amazing person. What role did he play in your journey with breast cancer?

Cynthia Mulligan: He was so supportive. He went public first with his cancer diagnosis and treatments, and he inspired me. He did it first, and because he believed it was really important to do: that if you can help one person find it early, give them support as they're going through it too, show them that it can be done, you know?

Um... He and I were going through, well, his final treatment, I was going through my treatments, and we would text each other. I remember texting him from the hospital when I had surgery, and he was in the hospital, too, and we would text.

Nam Kiwanuka: A great loss to not just the city; the whole country. And his family.

Cynthia Mulligan: Yeah. Yeah.

Nam Kiwanuka: You mentioned that he led the way for you to talk about this, but I can't stress how important you have been in raising breast cancer awareness in Canada. You did this before Instagram or TikTok was created. When you started, we weren't talking about this. The province of Ontario lowered the screening age for breast cancer from age 50 to those over age 40.

Cynthia Mulligan: Mm-hmm. It needs to be lower still. It needs to be more accessible. I mean, women are getting diagnosed younger and younger, and the younger they're diagnosed, the deadlier it can be. It's more aggressive. I was-- I was premenopausal. It's more aggressive when you're younger, and I can't imagine going through it in my earlier 20s or 30s.

One of the messages that I want to get is, yes, we need-- we need more screening. We need to make sure younger women are protected and get what they need, so they don't have to go through as horrific a journey, you know?

And-- And I also want to say, stage four is not an automatic death sentence. You know? The last five and a half years have been some of the best of my life. I've also gotten engaged.

Nam Kiwanuka: Congratulations!

Cynthia Mulligan: So, I got this great job, and I got engaged, and it's all after-- all after this diagnosis, and who would have thought, right? Life is for living. Life is for living with joy.

Nam Kiwanuka: This was (Mis)Treated. Thanks for listening.

About one in eight women in Canada will develop breast cancer during their lifetime, according to the Canadian Cancer Society. In 2024, the province of Ontario lowered the screening age for breast cancer from over age 50 down to 40, but some women are still not getting screened. Please get screened and talk to a doctor if you have questions or concerns about mammograms.

Our thanks again to Cynthia for being so generous in our conversation. You can follow our show wherever you download your podcasts, so you can get notified each time a new episode is available. We would love to hear your feedback. You can write me an email at mistreatedpodcast@tvo.org - we read them all - or you can reach out to me on social media.

This week's episode was produced by Chantale Dahmer and me, and edited by Colin Kish. Coordinating producer Matthew O'Mara. Digital shorts by Edwin Janzen, and motion graphic designer by Ayush Madhamshettiwar. Camera work by Max Stussi and Ricardo Diaz. Teleprompting by Elisa Verrilli. And our thanks to the TVO studio crew. Production support from Jonathan Halliwell, and TVO's Digital Media Services team. Laurie Few is the Executive Producer of Digital. Vanessa Case is Vice President of Media. Thanks so much for listening.