Anna Martin: Today, I'm talking to Zenaia and Robert Patson. They star in the new movie, The Drama, which is a romantic movie, but it's also pretty deeply terrifying and anxietyinducing. I wanted to talk to these two stars about the very real anxieties that this movie cranks up to the extreme and this idea that we can't ever really know the people we love. From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Zenaia and Robert Patson,

Zenaia: Thank you for having us.

Anna Martin: The two of you are in a new movie called the drama.

Zenaia: Yes.

Anna Martin: You play an engaged I liked that. Every single question was the same thing at the same time. Quite

Robert Pattinson: Two one. Yes.

Zenaia: Yes. That didn't really work that time.

Anna Martin: You play an engaged couple.

Zenaia: Natural. You know,

Robert Pattinson: Totally force it. We won't force it, but I hope it happens again.

Anna Martin: You play an engaged couple, Emma and Charlie. They're so in love. They're perfect for each other. And then a week before the wedding, Emma reveals something that I'm not going to spoil. You have to see the movie to figure it out.

Zenaia: Absolutely.

Anna Martin: But it causes Charlie to wonder if he even knows, you know, this woman at all. And suddenly this bond that felt so strong is full of chaos. There's all this doubt. Charlie's spiraling, you know, wondering if the wedding should still even happen. Emma's watching Charlie being like, "Can we recover from this? Does this man even love me anymore?" These are generally, I would say, not questions you want to be asking a week before the wedding. I've never been married, but I would.

Zenaia: But I can imagine doing my research. Um, let's start here. You spent a lot of time with these characters, Emma and Charlie. Do you like them as people? Would you be friends with them?

Robert Pattinson: There's a lot in that. Yes.

Anna Martin: Okay. That's a soft yes. There's a lot behind that. Yes. Unpack that for me.

Robert Pattinson: He's very easy to influence which is always I find a little bit untrustworthy in a person. Um but at the same time he does mean well and he's trying to he's trying to kind of uh temper himself against his his sort of weaker instincts. Uh so I guess he's got potential potential to be my friend.

Zenaia: He's easily influenced. Yeah. But yeah, and he's but he's he's a romantic like and it's kind of romant and I think everybody who's a romantic is kind of slightly delusional and blind to lots of things.

Anna Martin: lean into it.

Robert Pattinson: Lean into it.

Anna Martin: There is this moment the first time that your character Charlie first approaches Emma. He does it with a lie. He pretends to have read a book that Emma's reading. What do we think about this tactic? It feels so tough to pull off

Zenaia: and unnecessary, right?

Anna Martin: This is what I thought.

Robert Pattinson: He literally It's like why? It's high risk for someone who's really quite shy cuz it's the hard part is going up and just starting the conversation.

Zenaia: 100%. So, it's kind of kind of one of their other reasons why I don't really like him

Robert Pattinson: because he lied initially. He has a lie and it's also a very specific lie where it's kind of like I need you to think I'm a certain kind of person and it's like which and I guess it just comes out of insecurity. I guess it's quite endearing. I like him again.

Anna Martin: Oh my. You really We'll ask at the end and we'll see if you actually don't want to hang out with him. Now Emma, how do you feel about this woman?

Zenaia: Do you know what? I feel like I'd want to hang out with her because I think she needs more friends.

Anna Martin: Oh, she needs more genuine friends.

Zenaia: Yeah. More about that. Yeah. Um, and I say that because I think um I think both the characters uh desperately want to be loved and accepted and seen in some kind of way. In many ways, I think she just has always wanted a sense of belonging um and to feel like she she fits somewhere. And I think when she meets Charlie, she feels like she she fits with this person and this, oh, I can choose who I'm going to be and this is who I am now. And I can um you know, so much I think of her identity is in his life cuz we don't actually meet her own friends. We meet his friends that are her friends. And you know, she's acclimated herself to his his life and his world. And not to say that that's not true to her because I do think that this is the life that she loves and she feels like fits her and she feels safe in. And I think that's that safety that she feels ultimately ends up in making her feel safe enough to share maybe a little bit too much. Um and so I just think that you know she needs some of her own friends.

Anna Martin: I was going to say so you want to hang with her out of pity. I mean, you're like, "Yes, I have no but you got BUT YOU NEED, YOU KNOW,

Zenaia: I know I'm I'm making it a little bit and and it doesn't seem like and I was always like, dang, she doesn't have any of her own. She doesn't have anyone else, you know." So, yeah. Yeah. But I thought that was indicative of of of where she's at in her life and and kind of her vulnerability, too, and why the stakes of this marriage working out um are so important to her.

Anna Martin: M well I was going to say, you know, I open by saying Emma reveals this thing that she did in her past a week before the wedding. And I'm curious for both of you like that decision. Do you think she should have told him earlier? Where do you come down on that?

Robert Pattinson: I don't know. I think it it's a film, so it's like if you told him earlier, maybe it wouldn't be a very movie.

Anna Martin: You're like, "No, because then I would not be the week before the wedding. you know, chaos is nothing for us to, you know,

Robert Pattinson: that's a very straightforward answer and I appreciate that. Yeah. But um uh yeah, I I don't know. I and then I think that's the the interesting thing with this film is is there is a lot of uh of that is the discussion that you will leave with you know it's like do is that something that you feel like you should talk to your partner about or do you feel like it was necessary to bring it up or you know you're able to kind of ruminate and chew on it for a bit and and put yourself in the shoe of of of both of the characters but well would I have done that or would I have said that or

Anna Martin: what are you thinking what are you thinking

Zenaia: yeah what are you thinking Rob

Robert Pattinson: I'm just thinking it's kind of it's like I think it's interesting because it's you want a romance to be this sort of you want it to be an idealized romance and if you want like everybody kind of wants you want something to be perfect but if you knew everything about the other person literally nothing is perfect and so it's kind of like do you want to but also the feeling of thinking you found someone who's perfect and thinking it's a perfect relationship is so profound it's addicting and you're And it's kind of like you don't want to let go of it, but also you can somehow I guess this the story is saying there is a way to kind of have it, but it is it's that strange leap of faith like and which is kind of like we're kind of been talking about it all this like we're basically kind of on either side of the fence which like I need to know everything.

Anna Martin: I need to know about Yes. Let's open up the debate. I'm sorry if this is trending territory for you. It's Christmas cuz I don't think Rob actually believes this.

Zenaia: There's a rift here.

Robert Pattinson: I think Rob is just, you know,

Anna Martin: well, tell me what is the difference? What's the difference?

Zenaia: When someone tell me too much, I'm like, you need to you need to

Robert Pattinson: Yeah.

Zenaia: Wait, wait. Let's let's don't tell me yourself.

Robert Pattinson: Keep it to yourself.

Zenaia: yeah. Well, I'm into boundaries. I thought I really wanted boundaries.

Anna Martin: Okay. Boundaries.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah.

Anna Martin: What is the debate? No, just like

Zenaia: Yeah. Well, I'm into boundaries. I thought everybody wanted boundaries. There are just things like how much do you want to like know about somebody before you like to marry them or something?

Robert Pattinson: Very little.

Anna Martin: And he doesn't want to know very much. Is that true? You're like, I want to know their middle name. I think the more if you're expecting chaos and surprises, you'll probably be happier in the long run.

Zenaia: It's very unromantic. If you're just like, I want to know exactly what you're going to be every single day. It's like that's so lame. It's gross.

Robert Pattinson: But like,

Zenaia: okay, rebuttal. Rebuttle. But in life naturally, like we're going to grow and we're going to change. like that's going to happen no matter what. So, it's good to know someone at least at the core so that as they grow and as they change, you can be a part of that in some way. You know, it's like you know where where we're coming from.

Anna Martin: So, you're saying you want to know as much as establishes kind of the ground rules. This makes sense

Zenaia: of of like what kind of person someone is and and getting to see them or getting to discuss or go through things together, you know, I think is

Robert Pattinson: I mean I feel like I'm biased because I've been able to grow up with the person that I love and like get to know them like through being literally a teenager to now. So it's like of course we're going to change and we're going to grow and life is like whatever, but like I still feel like there's like a bond or a connection that you feel like you know someone at least enough to feel safe with them.

Zenaia: But it's kind of Yeah. It's like you you inevitably know someone a bit by just being in relationship with them.

Robert Pattinson: Of course.

Zenaia: But I think it's it's it's the expectation of saying I think I think you kind of you you suffocate a relationship if you're like saying like I need to know this. I need to know all the stuff about your I need to know everything about your past. It's like

Robert Pattinson: I see I see what you mean by that.

Zenaia: The past has nothing to do with you. Like it's literally like it's kind of

Robert Pattinson: I don't know. I'm kind of

Zenaia: I get that. But I also think that like if you feel safe in a in safe in a relationship then like I don't I I would never want to be like you have to tell me everything about your life. It's more like

Anna Martin: how would you know how many questions to ask? What is it like?

Zenaia: No, I just be more like if you're if you feel safe with somebody or like hopefully you feel safe enough with me that you want to share.

Robert Pattinson: It also reveals your own insecurity if you're if you're constantly saying I need to know all the stuff about your past. Also, I kind of think the second you meet someone, you kind of know which way the relationship's going to go.

Anna Martin: Like I literally I think that's an instant. Do you think you have a special ability to do that or everyone does?

Robert Pattinson: I think everybody does

Zenaia: and we just don't listen to it.

Robert Pattinson: I think they do listen to it because like when you like I think when if you end up breaking up with someone or something happens there's always that moment I knew this was going to happen. I think most people do and then you know and you I think you know the second you meet them

Zenaia: like and you just choose to go and some and it's not necessarily a bad decision but you know you always know.

Anna Martin: What is it? Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna push you on this because I'm interested. When you have this knowing Yeah, me too. Right. What what does it feel like to you? Is it like a aha or is it like a bodybased sensation? What is that?

Robert Pattinson: Yeah, you can get because you can have the combination of feel. You can get some like you can have you can be like very attracted to someone and also there's like some like fear or something at the same time. And it's like oh and that could be why you're attracted to them in the first place.

Zenaia: But you know that fear will eventually have some they will do something. the reason your body is afraid for them. I kind of I kind of agree with that in some ways too because I think sometimes like um at least in my personal experience like I found that you know sometime like people kind of like kind of get nervous around people

Robert Pattinson: but there's a certain feeling that I I I was able to experience when I knew that this is my person because I didn't I never I don't feel nervous around I feel really peaceful and I feel really calm and I feel like oh I actually feel more nervous when I'm away from you than when I'm with you.

Anna Martin: That's really sweet. And that's when I was like, "Ah, that's that's a good sign me listening to my, you know, intuition or body or whatever."

Zenaia: Maybe when we first met, I I already felt like

Robert Pattinson: cuz I guess like we first met in an audition. So

Zenaia: So I was pretty nervous anyway, but he did make me feel calm. So can you tell me how he made you feel calm?

Robert Pattinson: Just by being a nice person, you know, by making me feel comfortable. I mean like it's like having to do a chemistry read for a big movie like that is like you know you really want the job and all these kind of things and yeah she was he was really lovely then. So

Anna Martin: I want to talk about these moments where we see where we learn something new about a partner where we see our partner in a new light. There's this scene in the movie that I find so relatable probably because I live in New York. Emma and Charlie, they're crossing the street. A car almost hits them. Emma goes off on the driver.

Zenaia: Yeah. And by the way, I was like, it was your right of way. You know what I mean? Like 100% throw that 100%. Yeah. Okay. But

Robert Pattinson: thank you for doing it and not me.

Anna Martin: Charlie is looking at Emma like, wait, why? Why? Cuz Charlie's looking at Emma like, who is this woman?

Robert Pattinson: Yeah. I mean, he's he's he's very he's very sensitive. He's a little over sensitive to I mean, that's kind of what the what the humor of it is cuz there So, I mean, so many parts of the movie he's reacting in I mean, I guess it's how you always when you're spiraling suddenly everything seems crazy and it's like, oh my god, like she's wearing a different hat. She's crazy.

Anna Martin: Um, but the moment this this scene felt like, you know, he's seeing this other aspect of her and he's interpreting it differently because Emma at this point has revealed the secret. But I felt like I related to it because in not such a dramatic fashion, but in almost every relationship I've been in, I've had this moment where the person will do something and suddenly I have to kind of recalibrate what I thought I knew about them. And it it doesn't have to be in a bad way. I'm curious if this resonates. If you've had a moment with someone you love, partner, family member, friend, where they do something and you see them in a in a different way.

Zenaia: I think it happens like when you grow up and you start stop seeing your parents as just your parents.

Robert Pattinson: Totally. and just as human beings that met and like had you you know it's kind of like when that perception of or I don't know whatever it is kind of fades away and you go oh you guys are

Zenaia: just people and it happens us you know it's like some for some people it happens younger you know it happens at different you know stages of your life but really getting to understand your parents

Robert Pattinson: but not from the context of them being your parents but them just wrong

Zenaia: yeah yeah or or whatever that idea idea or ideal of a parent is that you have in your head and just seeing them for the people that they are and also trying to have grace for them as human beings too. Um, and remember that they're just, you know,

Robert Pattinson: they're just people

Zenaia: as well, you know, they're like not superheroes and whatever. They're they're human beings. Yeah.

Anna Martin: Do you remember a moment when when you had that realization about your parents? It can be even small, but do you remember a time when that occurred to you? Um, I think

Zenaia: I think probably like when you know just moving to LA and you know and me having to work and be the one that was working and I think that kind of dynamic shift brought up a lot of things for my parents cuz now it's like a you you you are now in a different dynamic with your parents and how you navigate that I think was

Robert Pattinson: was uh one of those moments like oh okay this is this is different cuz I'm not just like a a little kid anymore. Although I technically am. I'm doing it, you know, a very mature, you know, job now. I have a 9 to5 and I and I go to work every morning and I come home at night, but I also still have to like listen to my parents and they have to tell me to go to bed at time, you know, whatever. And so that you're like, whoa, whoa,

Zenaia: that's weird now, you know, and trying to to I don't know, just just like wrap your head around that a little bit.

Anna Martin: There's like a lot to navigate. Yeah, for sure. We have this column in the New York Times called Tiny Love Stories. These are short 100word love stories. Um, and we've chosen some that feel very resonant with the drama.

Robert Pattinson: Are they real love stories or

Anna Martin: They are. Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Pattinson: That's crazy.

Anna Martin: They're true. They are true.

Robert Pattinson: People just randomly send them in.

Anna Martin: Yeah. Voluntarily.

Robert Pattinson: Wow.

Anna Martin: So, I'm going to hand you one of these. You'll read them and then we'll respond to them. We'll react to them. How does that sound? Um, first up, we have you, Zenaia. Here's a tiny love story. And please say the title and the author's name.

Zenaia: "First the ugly, then the beauty" by Ali Petrilla. We met on an app. I chose my favorite brewery for our first date. When he ordered only water to drink while I enjoyed a few beers, I prodded with neither hesitation nor shame. He laid out his demons. Four years in recovery from heroin and alcohol addiction. Then I laid out mine. 10 years recovering from eating disorders. Within 15 minutes, we knew all of each other's ugly parts. We've spent the rest of our time together discovering the beautiful ones.

Anna Martin: That's what's coming up for you.

Zenaia: I think that's really uh beautiful. You know, here's the thing. It's like everybody's love story is different and some people feel comfortable sharing and feel like they can be vulnerable or feel like it's important for them to lay their cards out on the table right away. Some people are more uncomfortable with that and some people it takes time for you to, you know, build the trust and break break the walls down. But in a unique situation where it seems like this has worked for both of these people where they feel like they were both able to share something equally of uh you know importance to them and and that was you know allowed them to bond and and see each other and maybe help each other in many ways. Um then I I feel like that's really beautiful.

Robert Pattinson: Hope they're happy.

Anna Martin: They are actually married. We got that update.

Robert Pattinson: Wonderful.

Anna Martin: Do you think there's such a thing as disclosing too much of yourself too early?

Zenaia: Yes.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah.

Anna Martin: Okay. Very strong response. Tell me about this.

Zenaia: No, no. I'm saying such a thing. I that's someone's story.

Robert Pattinson: I think I what I do I necessarily feel like maybe on the first time I meet someone. It depends on the person and who you know and sometimes it takes time to get to know somebody like

Zenaia: it's very controlling as well manipulative.

Robert Pattinson: You are.

Zenaia: Yes.

Anna Martin: Wait. So tell me more about this. You you had such a strong response.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah. I feel like everybody who does that often, well, not everybody, but the vast majority of people who want to kind of overload you with kind of too personal information when you haven't really met them.

Zenaia: It's like kind of cuz it forces you into a certain position like to listen to them and you're like

Anna Martin: like and what is that position?

Robert Pattinson: Uh, you can't. No, I'm just going to sound so judgy.

Zenaia: I regret it already. But I do I do think it's manipulative. Sometimes someone's you can tell when someone's doing it, but like sometimes if you're like at a party and someone's doing something, it's like

Robert Pattinson: it's kind of cuz you can't really tell like all right, blah blah blah, whatever.

Zenaia: Get out of here.

Anna Martin: So, you think it's like it's sort of it's putting you into a position where you have to receive?

Robert Pattinson: Yeah.

Anna Martin: They might just want to talk.

Zenaia: Yeah. Yeah. But it worked for them.

Anna Martin: Yeah, it worked. That's what I'm saying. It works.

Robert Pattinson: Oh, no. I'm not saying about these guys. This very nice.

Zenaia: Yes, they do.

Robert Pattinson: On a date. I'm talking about crowd

Anna Martin: there. Yes. Okay. You're talking about in a party.

Robert Pattinson: If it's on a date, it's totally different thing. Sorry. I was thinking about a party. I realized now it's

Anna Martin: a party. Tell me about how you'd handle it on a date. Uh if someone was opening up like they are in this tiny love story.

Zenaia: Yeah, it depend. It's like if someone Yeah, it's not just the opening up. It's not just opening up. I think some there's always so much more to it because I think most I think it's a natural thing to be like wary of other people when you first met them.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah, for sure.

Zenaia: And so um uh so I don't know but it' be interesting sometimes that has happened to me before and sometimes you're like absolutely like so profoundly moved that someone's thought like oh I see something in you which you are the person who I feel like I can open up to.

Robert Pattinson: I trust you.

Zenaia: Yeah. But if they're just opening up to everybody I'm just like blah blah.

Anna Martin: Um Robert we have a tiny love story for you. If you don't mind reading this, the title and the author's name

Robert Pattinson: and we'll discuss.

Robert Pattinson: "There's a logic to love" by Jack Simmons. As an engineer, I believe problems have logical solutions. To solve my relationship problem, I needed to structure it. Standing at my boyfriend's whiteboard with a marker and a flowchart I'd drawn. I asked some questions, tracing his answers down the chart. He was happy, but wasn't sure he could fall in love with me. The chart said, "Break up." So, we did. I went back to him promising to love myself enough for both of us. It didn't work. We broke up again. Love is simple. The flowchart and your heart must lead to the same answer. Stay. Interesting. It's not where I thought it was going to go.

Anna Martin: I know, right? Okay. Well, tell me about tell me about that reaction. Well, are are they saying that like there this particular flowchart

Robert Pattinson: Yes.

Anna Martin: kept going back to break up and in order for it to work the end point can't be break up it has to be stay.

Robert Pattinson: I actually think what he's saying he's saying I think the flowchart said for them breakup.

Zenaia: Mhm.

Robert Pattinson: And they did but then they came back together ignoring the flowchart

Zenaia: and then it didn't work.

Robert Pattinson: Mhm. And so what he's saying is we should listen to the flowchart.

Anna Martin: to the flowchart. That's what I'm saying. It has to say stay.

Robert Pattinson: Yes. It has you have to break up.

Anna Martin: Well, it sounds like his partner initially said that already.

Zenaia: Said like, I'm going to let this flowchart go and then I'm going to ignore that you've drilling this flowchart and hope you come to your senses.

Robert Pattinson: Beyond the flowchart of it all, I will say,

Zenaia: well, he also said he was happy but wasn't sure he could fall in love with me.

Anna Martin: Yeah.

Zenaia: Oh, so I missed that.

Anna Martin: That's a hard

Zenaia: Oh, yeah.

Anna Martin: kind of What What's making sense to you now?

Zenaia: I mean, if someone says, "I wasn't I'm not sure I can fall in love with you." Just keep it to yourself.

Robert Pattinson: You need to say I got a job overseas.

Zenaia: I got a job and I need to go.

Robert Pattinson: Sorry, but I Yeah, you're amazing. You have to I have to go.

Zenaia: You're like, no more charts.

Robert Pattinson: I'm not entirely sure what a flowchart is.

Anna Martin: OH MY GOD. THAT COMES OUT NOW THAT YOU don't know what a flowchart is.

Robert Pattinson: Is that like when you like follow the line to like Topsy needs to find her mom in the swimming pool? Like, who do you find?

Zenaia: That's cool. Is that a maze?

Robert Pattinson: Maze.

Anna Martin: Okay. So, no. So, no, not exactly. A flowchart is different.

Robert Pattinson: Very different.

Zenaia: Very different, but they share some components. Let's throw them a bone. A flowchart. I'm like, what is a flowchart?

Anna Martin: Visual learning.

Zenaia: Visual learning. It's like if this then this.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah.

Zenaia: Now I'm like, what was that?

Anna Martin: Let me As you started drawing it, I realized how how unattractive that is.

Zenaia: Well, I feel like people make a lot of pro and cons lists for people,

Anna Martin: which is adjacent to flowchart. Have you ever been in a situation where you're so unsure about someone or something, some decision that you felt the need you could have used a flowchart or a procon list?

Zenaia: I don't think I've used it in like a romantic situation, but I've definitely used some charts like to make some decisions. I'm a Virgo.

Anna Martin: There you go. You drew how

Zenaia: not like a chart, but I've definitely did some procon lists.

Anna Martin: Really?

Zenaia: Oh, for sure.

Anna Martin: Is this surprising to you? That's like a normal thing to do.

Zenaia: It is. And if the pros outweighs the cons, you're like, "Okay,

Anna Martin: how do you make decisions, Robert?"

Robert Pattinson: Shake your head around and then you see which is bigger, the yes or the no.

Anna Martin: You're like a magic eightball.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah,

Zenaia: that's really fun.

Robert Pattinson: It's literally goes on vibes.

Zenaia: It could be very damaging to one's head, though.

Robert Pattinson: It's a light shake.

Zenaia: It's a light shake. Just tiny light shake. Um light.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah. No, I definitely Yeah, cuz I'm That's the thing is I feel like I'm very um

Zenaia: I don't know. I overthink about a lot of things. So sometimes like you just pour out with all these thoughts. you're like, "Okay, maybe I just need to write it down."

Robert Pattinson: So, yeah, sometimes that's that I found that helpful, but maybe not in this particular situation.

Zenaia: Not in this particular, right?

Robert Pattinson: But but I think, you know, that there is an open communication and the answer was kind of there and it's like, okay, well,

Zenaia: maybe this isn't where I need to be.

Robert Pattinson: I actually think this goes back to your understanding of really tuning in to to the truth of someone. This is their way to figure out, you know, the the outcome of their relationship. They had to break up, but they didn't listen.

Zenaia: I'm literally look when you're drawing the flowchart, you know.

Anna Martin: Yeah. Okay. The flowchart flowart. Not only not only are you drawing the flow, but then you're showing it to your partner. You're trying to get a reaction. You're trying all you're trying to do is say like, I want you to say you love me. That's the thing. That's the only reason you're doing it. And you know he's not going to do it.

Zenaia: Like you know they're not going to do it. If

Robert Pattinson: nothing else,

Anna Martin: I'd say that's fair.

Zenaia: Yeah. I also am happy that we could tell you what a flowchart is even though I'm not so sure you really know.

Robert Pattinson: I know. I still it kind of went out. You just like any chart. Any chart.

Zenaia: You start to have to bring out a chart in a relationship with over already.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah.

Anna Martin: Okay, there you go. To be fair, I think Charlie would be a flowchart guy. He's trying to justify. He's definitely writing pros and cons.

Zenaia: He's like thinking like I think Well, he kind He literally kind of does. I mean, that's literally what the movie is.

Anna Martin: Yeah, his pros and cons list.

Zenaia: I think he's just drawing things down. It just feels like Yeah, this was a lot of effort for

Anna Martin: you had way more questions about flowcharts and I'm realizing like there's a lot here. It's very rich. Um, this movie is about marriage. You both are in very public relationships. There has been recently much speculation about marriage for you. Um, I'd be remiss not to ask a journalist if there's anything you want to say about uh people wondering about whether you're married. And I will say just a small plug, you know, if there was a place to say some news, it might be the Modern Love podcast for the New York Times. Well, I just feel like for me it's like um there is a a level of like a a par parasocial like investment in in my personal relationship, which I understand and I do know that like I I am aware that I'm a public person and so is he and I'm also aware that like we've grown up in front of people and we've done movies where we like fall in love with each other. So, it's like I really do understand that and I don't want to dismiss that like stay out of my business or whatever, but in a lot of ways I also am a very private person and I try my best to be able to have things for myself and for him as well. And so, we do our best in general to not hide ourselves from the world, but just to I think preserve things for ourselves so that we can maintain that joy just within ourselves and our loved ones and our family. So that's kind of like my broad way of just saying I hear it, but I also like my own little boundaries of what I like to bring up and talk about, but then also what I'm also willing to share, you know?

Robert Pattinson: I think that's the most beautiful way to say no comment.

Anna Martin: I respect it.

Robert Pattinson: Pardon the out of

Zenaia: No, I mean I'm just I'm speaking honestly from that perspective, but yeah, I just, you know, I just try to find the balance in the middle there.

Anna Martin: Understood. Any comment?

Robert Pattinson: Wish I could I was literally like practicing.

Anna Martin: It was really good. It and it was true.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah, I was clearly very I didn't I swear I didn't chart this. This is just I'm just answering your question because I didn't know if you would answer like ask that. So

Anna Martin: I think Thank you for telling me.

Robert Pattinson: Answer. Of course.

Anna Martin: I want to land us on the side. We've been talking about what it means to really know someone we love. What happens when we don't know as much as we thought. Um, so I want to close on this idea. I wonder if you could share a time recently where you felt very known by someone in your life, very seen for who you are. This is an earnest question, I know, but I wonder if you could humor me with an earnest answer.

Robert Pattinson: Good luck.

Zenaia: You got to try.

Robert Pattinson: You'll never know me.

Zenaia: You got to try. You got to try.

Robert Pattinson: Very known and seen. I mean, a lot. I feel like I feel like my partner in a lot of ways knows me better than I know myself. But like uh no, just kind of to the point where she'll kind of have like quite psychic abilities about things. But um

Anna Martin: does that feel good?

Robert Pattinson: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna Martin: Good.

Robert Pattinson: She doesn't have a choice. like like that doesn't make it up. Um and my kid as well like it's kind of well I don't know if she knows me as well.

Zenaia: It is because there's an answer and then there's a well

Robert Pattinson: well I mean there's always there's always another side to the coin of course but like but the uh yeah seeing it's a different yeah yeah when a when your kid is looking at it's a different type of knowing as well because it's it's knowing without any uh I mean obviously they have desires from you

Zenaia: but it's funny when they're just it's just pure curiosity And you when you conceive of it, you know, they don't have they don't have a single issue with you, which is great.

Robert Pattinson: How freeing.

Zenaia: It's so nice.

Robert Pattinson: They're not pissed. They're not mad. Although sometimes they are. They're crying.

Zenaia: Going to swing.

Robert Pattinson: That's it. Like this kind of relationship I had sad.

Zenaia: It will probably get more complicated than swing though, right? It might. It might be.

Robert Pattinson: Yeah.

Anna Martin: What about you? Last time you felt known? I feel like I feel really no I feel I feel really known by like my my partner by like my my friends by my family like I do feel like the core people around me I feel very

Zenaia: I think that's when I'm happiest is when I'm with all of those people. It's just like I feel like I'm not thinking so much and you know trying to think about what I'm going to say before I say it like right now. Um but you know what I mean? It's like you you you just you know they they know you, they see you and you feel you feel safe and you feel like and and also it's just like they see they see me as the adult I am now but like my siblings also see me as their little sister, all the past versions of you stacked on top of each other and and um and that love and that care or that protection or that whatever that looks like from them um

Robert Pattinson: is still very very true. Robert Patinson, Zenaia, thank you so much for this conversation that was at times a debate.

Zenaia: Thank you very much. I appreciate

Robert Pattinson: ultimately he agreed.

Zenaia: Ultimately agree with you. Ultimately he agreed with you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Robert Pattinson: Thank you.