美联储与实体经济的脱节
Charles Payne: 他们已经达成了目标。我想请 monetarymacro.com 的首席投资官约瑟夫·王来谈谈。乔,在我看来,问题的核心似乎是美联储(Federal Reserve: 美国联邦储备系统)从未为实体经济(Main Street: 普通民众和中小企业)而建立。他们确实谈论实体经济,但我认为,只要富人和有权势的人表现出色,华尔街(Wall Street: 金融市场)也表现良好,美联储就觉得没问题。
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They checked the box. I want to bring it out to monetarymacro.com, CIO Joe Wang. You know, Joe, it seems that the heart of the matter to me is that the Fed was never built for Main Street. You know, they talked to Main Street, but I just think that, you know, as long as the rich and powerful are doing extraordinarily well and Wall Street is doing well, I think the Fed's OK.
Joseph Wang: 我认为这可能就是经济现状。正如你所提到的,就业增长似乎停滞不前。许多指标表明消费者正在挣扎,消费者信心低迷,我们不断读到关于公司裁员的各种传闻。与此同时,股市却一路飙升,这让一小部分人受益。因此,政策似乎没有充分关注大多数境况不佳的人。目前,美联储内部正在争论是否应该在12月降息。市场原以为这已是板上钉钉,但现在我们看到了像今天洛根主席(President Logan)那样的反对声音。
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I think that might be the case when I look at what's happening in the economy. Like you mentioned, it looks like job growth is just not going anywhere. We have a lot of indicators suggesting that the consumer is struggling, consumer confidence is low, and we're reading about all these anecdotes about companies leading people off. And at the same time, you see that the stock market is just roaring higher and higher and higher. And that's benefiting a very small swath of the population. So it really does seem that policy is not paying enough attention to most of the people who are not doing well. And so right now there's a struggle at the Fed as to whether or not they should cut rates in December. The market was thinking it was a done deal, but now we have pushbacks like we are seeing today. from President Logan.
美联储内部的“内战”与政策僵局
Joseph Wang: 我认为这可能更多是一种反弹。老实说,我正在努力解读字里行间的信息,尤其是在迈伦(Myron)上任之后。我曾读到有人称之为“内战”。这不是我的观点,但我确实在某个地方读到过,觉得这很有意思。如果美联储内部真的存在“内战”,那会带来什么影响?它可能会损害、危害或终结其统治,对吗?我们无法达成一致,他们不会步调一致。你以前认为点阵图(dot plot: 联邦公开市场委员会成员对未来利率预测的图表)很疯狂,如果这种情况继续下去,那会变得更加疯狂。这会导致政策瘫痪(policy paralysis),陷入通胀与衰退陷阱(inflation and recession trap)。因此,我们可能会看到任何方向的剧烈波动。
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You know, I think it might be more of a pushback. Honestly, I'm trying to read between the tea leaves, particularly since Myron got there. And I read somewhere that people are calling it a civil war. Now, this isn't my table, but I read it somewhere and I thought it was fascinating. If indeed there's a civil war at the Federal Reserve, what could it do? It may hurt or harm or end for reginance, right? We won't get it. They won't be on the same page. You know, you thought the dot plot was crazy before. If this keeps going, it's gonna be really crazy. Policy paralysis, inflation and recession trap. So we may get wild swings either way.
Joseph Wang: 这就是正在发生的事情。我不知道我们能责怪鲍威尔(Powell)多少,也不知道鲍威尔试图如何调解这件事,但感觉有两方存在明显分歧,我不确定他们能否在这种“分家”的情况下达成一致。我担心我们可能不必等到总统任命新的美联储主席,就能看到这一问题的解决。
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You know, this is what's happening. I don't know how much we can blame Powell, how much Powell's trying to referee this thing, but it feels like there are two sides that have distinct differences, and I'm not sure that they, can they come together with this sort of a house divided, you know, kind of situation? I'm afraid we wouldn't have to wait for the president to point a new Fed share before we have a resolution to this.
美联储内部的两大派系:数据驱动与前瞻性思维
Joseph Wang: 在我看来,美联储的一部分人基本上只关注数据。他们致力于回顾过去的数据。因此,如果你只看数据而不展望未来,你就无法真正了解情况,也无法做好准备。今年早些时候,鲍威尔主席就是这样,对吧?当时总统改变了关税政策、监管政策和移民政策,带来了重大的政策变化。而鲍威尔只是告诉所有人,我们什么都不会做,我们会坐下来,看看数据,致力于滞后反应,这会给经济带来代价。但这似乎就是他当时的做法。
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What it sounds like to me is that you have about a portion of the Fed that is basically looking at data. So, they're committed to driving looking at the rearview mirror. And so, if you're just looking at the data, you're not looking forward and you don't really know, you can't really prepare. Now, Chair Powell was like that earlier in the year, right? We had big policy changes with the president changing tariff policy. changes in regulation, changes in immigration. And Paul was just telling everyone that we're just going to not do anything. We're going to sit, look at the data, commit to being late, and that's going to cost the economy. But it seems like that's what he was doing.
Joseph Wang: 现在,由迈伦理事和鲍曼理事(Governor Bowman)领导的新一批人则大不相同。他们更具前瞻性。因此,他们会考虑总统的政策举措。例如,他们会说,移民减少意味着租金降低,对吧?因为人口减少。这是反通胀的。我们应该在此之前降息,并且还要考虑到所有这些流入美国的投资。所以我认为,这个具有前瞻性思维的群体可能会占据上风,因为总统将选择一个属于这个阵营的人来领导未来。
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Now, the new group of people led by Governor Myron, Governor Bowman, is a lot different. They're more forward-looking. So what they're doing is they're taking into account what the president is doing with their policy. They're saying, for example, immigration, lower immigration. That means lower rent, right? Because we have less. That's disinflationary. We should be cutting rates ahead of that, taking account in addition, all these investments coming into the U.S. So I think this forward looking. group of people is probably going to be ascendant because the president is going to choose someone who falls into that camp going forward.
美联储资产负债表、回购市场与财政赤字的困境
Charles Payne: 乔,在你离开之前,你总是会发布一些引人入胜的东西。你谈到的一件事是美联储资产负债表与回购市场(repo market: 短期借贷市场,以国债为抵押)之间的关系。这超出了大多数人的理解范围,对吧?我的意思是,我努力去理解它,但市场中似乎有一些不完全公开的事情正在发生,让一些人感到担忧。请给我们解释一下。
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Joe, before I let you go, you always post some intriguing things. And one thing you talked about is the relationship with the Fed balance sheet and the repo market. This is something that goes over most people's heads, right? I mean, I grapple with trying to understand it, but there seems to be something happening in the markets, not in full view, that have some people concerned. Explain this to us.
Joseph Wang: 当然。现在发生的情况是,市场的一些角落正在耗尽流动性(liquidity),特别是回购市场。这是人们以国债为抵押借入短期贷款的市场。对于美联储来说,这是一个非常重要的市场,它处于金融体系的“管道”中。但在2019年,美联储基本上失去了对该市场第二部分的控制,回购利率飙升,他们不得不介入并向金融系统注入准备金。
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Sure. So what's happening is that in some corners of the market are running out of liquidity, specifically the repo market. And that's the market where people borrow short-term loans collateralized by Treasury securities. Now this is a really important market for the Fed. It's in the plumbing, but in 2019 the Fed basically lost control of the secondment of the market. the repo rate spiked higher and they had to go in and add reserves into the financial system.
Joseph Wang: 美联储上次停止量化紧缩(QT: Quantitative Tightening: 缩减资产负债表)是因为我们再次看到回购利率飙升。归根结底,我的观点是,在未来几个月,他们将不得不向系统注入更多的流动性,可能达到数千亿美元,因为财政赤字(fiscal deficit)正在变得非常庞大。最终,这些回购贷款被用来为财政赤字融资。只要财政赤字继续增长,美联储就会被挟持,他们将不得不继续扩大资产负债表,以实质上适应美国的财政赤字。所以他们处境艰难,他们确实被国会(Congress)挟持了。
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Now the Fed stopped QT the last time because we see repo rates spiking again. At the end of the day, my view is that they're going to have to add a lot more liquidity into the system in the coming months, probably in the hundreds of billions, because the fiscal deficit is growing very large and at the end of the day, these repo loans are used to finance the And as long as the fiscal deficit continues to grow, the Fed is held hostage, and they'll have to continue to expand their balance sheet to essentially accommodate the fiscal deficit of the United States. So they're in a tough spot. They really are held hostage by Congress.
Charles Payne: 乔,我必须告诉你,就在这么短的时间里,你以一种让每个人都能理解的方式解释了这一切。非常感谢你,我的朋友。非常感谢。
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I gotta tell you though, Joe, just in that short period of time, you explained it in a way that makes everyone understand it. Thank you so much, my friend. Appreciate it.
Joseph Wang: 谢谢你,查尔斯。
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Thank you, Charles.
Charles Payne: 好的,各位,顺便提醒一下,你们可以阅读我的每日市场评论。
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All right, folks, by the way, a reminder, you can read my daily market
📌 文中提及的人物和组织
人物: Powell
公司/组织: Federal Reserve, Congress, Wall Street
媒体/书籍: monetarymacro.com, Charles Payne Show