选民心声与缅因州参议员选情
>>: 大卫在那儿。
英文原文
There's David.>>: 嗨，大卫，你好吗？我是《纽约时报》的凯特琳。
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>> Hi, David. How are you? This is Caitlyn calling from the New York Times.>>: 嗨，我挺好的，谢谢。你好吗，凯特琳？
英文原文
>> Hi, I'm well, thanks. How are you, Caitlyn?>>: 我很好。很高兴认识你。谢谢你。
英文原文
>> I'm good. It's so good to meet you. Thank you.>>: 过去几个月里，我的同事、《The Daily》制作人凯特琳·奥基夫一直在给缅因州各地的选民打电话，了解他们在周二选举前的感受。最近，她与一位名叫大卫·贝西的选民进行了交谈。
我是缅因州波特兰市的居民。我们在这里住了三年了。我在缅因州沃特维尔长大，现在我和妻子退休回到了我的家乡。
英文原文
>> For the past few months, my colleague, Daily Producer Caitlyn O'Keefe, has been calling up voters across Maine to hear how they're feeling ahead of Tuesday's election. Recently, she spoke to a voter named David Bessie. I'm a Portland, Maine resident. We have been here for three years. I grew up in Waterville, Maine, and now my wife and I have retired back to my home state.>>: 你能跟我谈谈你的政治认同吗？有没有哪个政党是你历来所认同的？
英文原文
>> And can you tell me like a little bit about your political identity? Is there a political party that you've historically identified with?>>: 是的，我认为自己是一名反MAGA的共和党人。我认为在政治观点上，我总体偏右中。但我认为特朗普以及特朗普总统任期——无论是第一任期还是第二任期——对国家来说绝对是一场灾难。我认为这个党派腐败、自私，老实说还很无能。我认为整个DOGE闹剧错失了一个真正做出改变的机会。我认为在现任总统领导下的移民问题和移民与海关执法局（ICE）的演变是非常糟糕的。
但我不是民主党人。我认为民主党，特别是在拜登领导下，实际上推行的是无异于开放边境的政策。我认为工会对民主党的影响不是一件积极的事情。我认为民主党人在总体上可以说是经济学101没及格。他们认为花钱就能解决问题，而不是先设法解决问题，然后再考虑资金问题。这在我看来很荒谬。我百思不得其解为什么会有人认为这是一种合乎逻辑的做法。而且民主党看起来如果说有什么变化的话，那就是在进一步向左偏，而不是走向我希望他们去的中间地带。
这在某种程度上就把我们引向了这场参议院竞选，也是为什么我如此纠结的原因。
英文原文
>> Yeah, I consider myself an anti-magma Republican. I think that I am generally more right of center in my political views. But I think that Trump and the Trump presidency, both Trump one and two, has been an absolute disaster for the country. I think the party is corrupt and self-deing and honestly incompetent. I think that the whole Doge fiasco was a missed opportunity to really make a difference. And I think that the immigration and ICE, how that has evolved under this presidency has been horrible. But I'm not a Democrat. I think that the Democrats under Biden especially really followed what amounted to an open borders policy. I think that the influence of unions on the Democratic party is not a positive thing. I think that the Democrats kind of failed economics 101 in general. They think that spending money is going to solve problems rather than trying to solve the problems and then think about money afterwards. And it just seems goofy to me. I I can't wrap my head around why anybody would think that would be a logical thing to do. And the Democratic Party, it appears like it's if anything, it's veering more to the left rather than to the center where I wish they would go.Which kind of brings us to this Senate race and why I'm struggling as much as I am with it.
>>: 我认为特洛伊·杰克逊确实是一个标准的自由派民主党人，他会遵从民主党的路线。另一方面，苏珊·柯林斯，你知道的，她一直被评为愿意跨越党派界限的参议员之一。我审视苏珊·柯林斯的履历，在我看来相当扎实且经过深思熟虑，
英文原文
>> I think that Troy Jackson is really a standard liberal Democrat who's going to fall in line with the Democratic party. Susan Collins, on the other hand, you know, she's consistently rated one of the senators who's willing to cross the aisle. I look at Susan Collins record and it seems to me to be pretty solid and thoughtful,>>: 但我认为投苏珊·柯林斯一票有可能在帮助MAGA共和党阵营。对她的一部分批评在于，她并没有尽其所能来阻止特朗普的MAGA总统施政。你知道，这可能是真的。她本可以对提名的某些人选投反对票吗？是的，绝对可以。
英文原文
>> but I think that a vote for Susan Collins has the potential to help the mega Republican cohort. Part of the criticism of her is that she has not done everything that she could to try to styy the Trump MAGA presidency. And you know that's probably true. Could she have not voted for some of the nominations that have been made? Yeah, absolutely.>>: 我来告诉你我设想的理想情况。
英文原文
>> I'll tell you my dream scenario.>>: 我设想的理想情况是参议院呈现50对50的局面，而苏珊·柯林斯依然在位。这样对于需要通过的事情，她将是一个关键的摇摆票，因为我认为她会成为摇摆票，并且愿意否决来自共和党方面在她看来不合理的事情，也愿意投票支持来自民主党方面合理的事情。
英文原文
>> My dream scenario is that it's 50/50 in the Senate with Susan Collins still there. so that things that need to get passed, she would be an important swing vote on cuz I think she would be a swing vote and would be willing to vote down things that didn't make sense to her from the Republican side and would be willing to vote for things on the Democratic side that did.温和派共和党人的抗引力策略：缅因州与苏珊·柯林斯
>>: 这里是《纽约时报》，我是迈克尔·巴巴罗。这是《The Daily》。在今年的中期选举中，一种非常特殊的共和党候选人正在吸引两个党派中感到幻灭的选民：愿意公开批评特朗普总统的温和派。现在的悬念在于，远离特朗普及其不受欢迎度是否足以真正赢得选举。今天，我的同事杰斯·比德古德将解释一些共和党人如何试图带回一个更老派的共和党版本，作为其党派的未来。
今天是10月28日，星期三。
英文原文
From the New York Times, I'm Michael Babaro. This is the daily. In this year's midterm elections, a very specific kind of Republican candidate is appealing to disillusioned voters of both parties. Moderates willing to openly criticize President Trump. The question now is whether running away from Trump and his unpopularity is enough to actually win. Today, my colleague Jess Biggood explains how some Republicans are trying to bring back an older version of the GOP as the future of their party.It's Wednesday, October 28th.
>>: 好的。准备好了吗？
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>> All right. Are you ready?>>: 准备好了。
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>> Yeah.>>: 好的。杰斯，非常高兴你能来。
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>> Okay. Jess, really glad to have you here.>>: 很高兴来到这里。
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>> It's a delight to be here.>>: 很高兴你能来。在我们对本次中期选举中对抗政治引力的共和党人的研究中——在共和党面临如此多不利因素的时刻——我认为最重要的例子必然是苏珊·柯林斯。她在民意调查中与民主党对手势均力敌。在某些民调中，她甚至在一个民主党在过去至少三届总统大选中赢得普选票的州——缅因州——领先于他。我认为甚至还要更多。那么，我们来谈谈苏珊·柯林斯是如何做到这一点的。
英文原文
>> Delighted to have you here. So, in our study of Republicans who are defying political gravity in this midterm when so many things are not going well for the Republican party. Exhibit A, I think, has to be Susan Collins, who is neck and neck in the polls with her Democratic rival. In some polls, she's actually ahead of him in a state, Maine, where the Democrats have won the popular vote in the last at least three presidential races. I think even more than that. So, let's talk about how Susan Collins has done that.>>: 缅因州发生了两件事，我认为可以解释这一点。第一是民主党人，第二是苏珊·柯林斯。那我们先快速聊聊民主党人。我们来回顾一下今年缅因州民主党人的波折经历。
英文原文
>> So, there's two things happening in Maine that I think explain this. The first is Democrats and the second is Susan Collins. So, let's talk about Democrats real quick. Let's just remind ourselves about the saga of Democrats in Maine this year.>>: 确实是一波三折。
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>> Saga it was>>: 在进入今年时，查克·舒默对于谁能击败苏珊·柯林斯曾有一个想法，因为她是民主党人一直想要打败的对象。几十年来他们一直渴望击败苏珊·柯林斯。他把目光投向了缅因州现任州长珍妮特·米尔斯，她在这个州赢过两次，并认为“她能做到”。缅因州的选民并不买账。相反，他们对一个凭空出现的牡蛎养殖人格雷厄姆·普拉特纳感到非常兴奋。我们对此谈论过很多。
英文原文
>> going into this year. Chuck Schumer had an idea about who he thought could take down Susan Collins because she is somebody who Democrats have wanted to beat. They have been hungry to beat Susan Collins for decades. And he looked at the sitting governor of Maine, Janet Mills, who has won twice in that state and said, "She can do it." Maine voters did not agree. Instead, they got really excited about an oyster man who came out of nowhere named Graham Platner. We've talked a lot about this.>>: 最近几个月我们确实谈了不少。
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We sure have in recent months.>>: 他的竞选
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>> His candidacy>>: 崩塌了。
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>> implodes.>>: 崩塌了。他被指控强奸，民主党人不得不仓促另寻人选，他们找到了特洛伊·杰克逊，他是缅因州前参议院议长。但他不是那种在全州范围内赢过选举的人。事实上，我认为他从未在任何一场选举中获得超过一万或一万一千张选票。
英文原文
>> Implod is accused of rape and Democrats have to scramble to find somebody else and they find Troy Jackson who is a former Senate President in Maine. Not someone who has ever won statewide. In fact, I don't think he's ever won an election with more than 10 or 11,000 votes.>>: 没错。正如我们的同事（包括内特·科恩）用巧妙措辞指出的那样，他缺乏魅力。
英文原文
>> Right. And as our colleagues, including Nate Conn, have found clever ways to say, he has a charisma deficit.>>: 确实如此。当然，缅因州对民主党人来说比他们预期的要艰难得多，还有另一个原因。那就是关于苏珊·柯林斯本人的宏大历程。
英文原文
>> He does. And then, of course, there's another reason why Maine is so much tougher for Democrats than they would like. And that is a big old story about Susan Collins herself. Mhm.>>: 她确实下了赌注，赌她那种独立、相当温和的共和党人风格——这种风格在字面上比特朗普早了几十年——正是适应今日时刻的类型。
英文原文
>> She has really placed a bet that her brand of independent, fairly moderate Republicanism, one that predates Trump by literally decades, is the one that will meet the moment today.>>: 杰斯，请帮我们回顾一下苏珊·柯林斯这种传统老派的共和党人风格。
苏珊·柯林斯于1996年首次当选参议员。
“为我所在州的人民服务将是我作为缅因州最新参议员的最首要任务。”
英文原文
>> Jess, just remind us of this Susan Collins old school brand of Republicanism. Susan Collins was first elected to the Senate in 1996.And it will be service to the people of my state that will be my highest priority as Maine's newest senator.
>>: 她是一个热衷于治理细节的人。她一路晋升为拨款委员会主席。这几乎是政府事务中最具技术官僚色彩的领域了。
“我已经为缅因大学争取到了资金，就在上周，这笔资金转化为班戈的一座新制造工厂，将创造75个高薪工作岗位。”
苏珊·柯林斯真正为自己塑造了一个为缅因州争取实惠的实干家形象。
英文原文
>> She is somebody who likes the nuts and bolts of governance. She has risen to be chairwoman of the appropriations committee. This is about as wonky as government gets. I've secured money for the University of Maine, which just this last week has translated into a new manufacturing plant in Bangor that will produce 75 good paying jobs. And Susan Collins has really forged an identity for herself as somebody who brings home the bacon to Maine.>>: “因此，我将继续倡导税收激励措施，以鼓励小企业创造就业机会，并支持全州的地方经济发展努力。”
这是一种老派的治理方式，对吧？这并不张扬。这不是上福克斯新闻去发表那些容易病毒式传播的言论。
英文原文
>> So, I'm going to continue advocating tax incentives to encourage small businesses to create jobs and supporting local economic development efforts all over this state. This is an old-fashioned form of governance, right? This is not flashy. This is not going on Fox News and saying stuff that gets super viral.>>: 与此同时，她还树立了一种跨党派合作者的形象。
英文原文
>> Handinhand with that was an identity as a kind of bipartisan person.>>: “我一直跨越党派界限开展工作，这一直是我在参议院服务的标志。这也是我为人所熟知的地方。”
而这在当时确实被视为一个卖点。
英文原文
>> I've always worked across party lines that has been the hallmark of my service in the Senate. That's what I'm known for. And that was something that was really seen as a selling point.>>: “由于我具备跨越党派界限工作的能力，我在诸多议题上拥有悠久的立法成就记录，无论是无家可归问题……”
英文原文
>> And because of my ability to work across party lines, I have a long record of legislative accomplishment in a host of issues, whether it's homeless>>: 这种身份和品牌形象是她在特朗普走下电梯并猛然闯入政治舞台之前的20年里一直在为自己打造的。柯林斯是如何应对特朗普的到来的呢？到了特朗普担任总统时，他具有强烈的党派色彩，同时也对那些希望与对立党派合作的人施以严厉惩罚。这导致他经常声称：“你背叛了我，我现在要确保你不再是国会议员。”
英文原文
>> and this was an identity and a brand that she was building for herself for 20 years before Trump comes down the escalator and and bursts onto the scene. And how does Collins handle the arrival of Trump, who is by the time he's president, ferociously partisan, but also quite punitive to those who want to work with the other side. It results in him often saying, "You just betrayed me, and I will now make sure you're no longer a member of Congress.">>: 苏珊·柯林斯经常努力与特朗普总统保持尽可能大的距离。
“我认为特朗普总统不会来缅因州，我也并不完全是他最喜欢的……呃……参议员。”
英文原文
>> Susan Collins has often worked to maintain as much distance from President Trump as she can have.I don't think that President Trump is going to come to Maine, and I'm not exactly his favorite uh senator.
>>: 她深知，每逢总统大选，缅因州每次都会把选票投给特朗普的对手。
“我决定投票依据的是我认为对缅因州和对美国最有利的事情，而不是任何一位总统赞成还是反对，我已经与五位总统共事过了。”
英文原文
>> She is well aware that Maine is a place that has voted for Trump's opponents when presidential elections roll around every time. I decide my votes on what I believe is best for Maine and for America, not on whether or not any president, and I've worked with five, is for it or against it.>>: 因此，在过去十年里，她在国会山投票时打破党派立场的次数超过了任何其他共和党参议员。
“我投票非常独立。”
英文原文
>> And so, more than any other Republican senator over the past decade, she has broken with her party during votes on Capitol Hill. I vote very independently.>>: 而这正是她在眼下竞选连任时所依赖的资本，此时特朗普总统的支持率在30%左右。她的党派正面临强劲的全国性阻力，可能比她在以往竞选连任时面临的任何阻力都要强。
“我极其直言不讳地反对对加拿大征收关税，并且我一再投票废除这些关税。”
英文原文
>> And that is something that she is drawing on now as she runs for reelection in this moment when President Trump's approval ratings are in the 30s. Her party is facing strong national headwinds, probably as strong as she has ever faced when running for reelection. I have been extremely outspoken in my opposition to Canadian tariffs and I have voted repeatedly to repeal them.>>: 她正指向这一纪录，向缅因州的独立选民乃至一些民主党人表示：选我是安全的。
英文原文
>> She is pointing to this record and saying to independent voters in Maine and even to some Democrats, I am a safe person for you to vote for.>>: “我与民主党人一起投票促成战争结束。投我一票并不是投给特朗普的议程。这是投给苏珊·柯林斯，我是不同的。”
英文原文
>> I voted with the Democrats to bring the war to an end. A vote for me is not a vote for Trump's agenda. It's a vote for Susan Collins and I am different.>>: 这确实有事实依据，对吧？我的意思是，《纽约时报》进行了一项分析，逐票分析表明柯林斯是国会中反对特朗普最坚决的议员。但在一个共和党人对总统如此忠诚且极少与他决裂的时代，你要与特朗普决裂到什么程度才能赢得那个特定头衔？换句话说，苏珊·柯林斯到底有多独立？民主党人会说，而且她的记录也表明，那些投票——即她与共和党决裂的时刻——在总统的第二个任期内极少真正阻碍到他。因此民主党人攻击她说：每当总统真正需要你的时候，你都站在他那边；而你有时那种表演性地与共和党决裂，并不能给缅因州带来帮助。我知道你肯定听过这个笑话：
英文原文
>> And there's truth to that, right? I mean, the Times did an analysis that showed vote by vote that Collins is the single most contrary to Trump member of Congress. But I guess in an era where Republicans have been so loyal to the president and so rarely have broken with him, how much do you have to break with Trump to earn that particular title? In other words, how independent has Susan Collins actually been? What Democrats would say and what her record shows is that those votes the the times when she broke with the Republican party rarely thwarted the president during his second term. So Democrats attack her saying you are with the president whenever he really needs you and it doesn't help Maine that you sometimes kind of performatively break with the Republican party. There is this joke that I'm sure you've heard.>>: “忧心忡忡的苏珊·柯林斯”梗：她对X感到忧心，她对Y感到忧心。
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>> The concerned Susan Collins mean she's concerned about X. She's concerned about Y,>>: 对吧？她感到忧心，但她并没有实际采取行动去阻止事情发生。其中一个突出的例子是她在2018年对布雷特·卡瓦诺的投票。当然，卡瓦诺后来在推翻“罗诉韦德案”的判决中投了赞成票。缅因州及其他地区的许多选民对苏珊·柯林斯帮助他进入最高法院感到非常愤怒。当时她投票推进了特朗普总统的“一项宏伟法案”（One Big Beautiful Bill Act）。她谈了很多，表达了对该法案将严重损害缅因州农村医疗保健的担忧，但最终她在投反对票之前，先投票推进了该法案。
英文原文
>> right? She's concerned, but she doesn't actually take action to stop the thing. So, one big example of this is her vote for Brett Kavanaaugh back in 2018. Kavanaaugh, of course, goes on to vote to overturn Row versus Wade. And there are plenty of voters in Maine and beyond that are really angry that Susan Collins helped to get him on the court. She voted to advance President Trump's one big beautiful bill act at the time. She talked a lot about having worries that that bill would take a big bite out of healthcare in rural Maine, but ultimately she voted to move that bill forward before voting against it.>>: 没错。这是一个复杂的立法流程，不易理解，但关键在于她投下的票帮助确保了该法案有机会成为法律。
英文原文
>> Right. A complicated legislative thing to comprehend, but what matters is she cast the vote that helped make sure it ever had a chance to become law.>>: 确实如此。这已经成为本次选举中围绕她展开的核心议题之一：她真的像她声称的那样独立于特朗普吗？因此，尽管对于柯林斯究竟是一个特立独行者，还是真正独立于特朗普的人存在各种争论，但根据你在此所描述的一切，显而易见的是，她温和、讲求礼貌的声誉，她为缅因州持续争取大量资金的能力，以及她不时违抗特朗普的意愿，使她在这样一场本以为民主党会表现极佳的竞选中极具竞争力。
英文原文
>> Exactly. And this has become one of the central themes within this election for her. Is she really as independent from Trump as she claims? So despite this variable debate about whether Collins is in fact a maverick or an somebody truly independent of Trump, what's clear based on everything you're describing here is that her reputation for being moderate, for being civil, her ability to keep bringing home lots of money for Maine, and her willingness to from time to time defy Trump has made her very competitive in a race where you would imagine that Democrats would be doing really well.新罕布什尔州：约翰·E·苏努努的复出之路
>>: 是的，我们在这一刻看到了她这种独立风格。如果说这不是一个制胜公式，那也是一个具有竞争力的公式。这也是我们在邻近的新罕布什尔州所看到的情况，前参议员约翰·E·苏努努正在竞选夺回他自己实际上在近20年前失去的参议院席位。那么，跟我们讲讲新罕布什尔州的那场竞选吧。
英文原文
Yes, we are seeing in this moment her brand of independence. If it's not a winning formula, it's a competitive formula. And that is also what we are seeing happening next door in New Hampshire where a former senator, John E. Cenounu, is running to take back a Senate seat that he himself actually lost almost 20 years ago. Well, tell us about that race in New Hampshire.>>: 约翰·E·苏努努出身于一个政治家族，
英文原文
>> So, John E. Cenounu is a scion of a political family,>>: 这就是为什么你要强调中间名“E”。
英文原文
>> which is why you're emphasizing the E.>>: 是的。因为他的父亲约翰·H·苏努努曾是乔治·H·W·布什的幕僚长，也曾是新罕布什尔州州长。他的兄弟克里斯·苏努努也曾担任新罕布什尔州州长。现在约翰·E·苏努努正在竞选参议员。从竞选一开始，他也确实竭力与特朗普总统保持距离。他开展竞选活动时表示反对伊朗战争。他表示反对关税。你实际上可以在最近的一则广告中听到他结案陈词的一部分。
英文原文
>> Yes. Because his father, John H. Cenounu, was a chief of staff to George HW Bush and a governor of New Hampshire. His brother, Chris Cenounu, was a governor of New Hampshire. And John E. Cenounu is running for the Senate. And from the beginning of his campaign, he too has really tried to keep his distance from President Trump. He has run a campaign in which he has said he's against the war in Iran. He has said he's against the tariffs. And you could actually hear part of his closing argument in a recent ad.>>: “按克里斯·帕帕斯的说法，‘我是特朗普总统失散多年的儿子。我甚至从未见过这个人。’”在那则广告中，他确实在疏远特朗普。
英文原文
>> The way Chris Papis tells it, "I'm President Trump's longlost son. I've never even met the man." In that ad, he's really distancing himself from Trump.>>: “当总统的政策对新罕布什尔州不利时，我会予以反对。就像我反对伊朗战争以及与加拿大的贸易战一样。这就是新罕布什尔州的独立精神。”
英文原文
>> When the president's policies are bad for New Hampshire, I'll oppose them. Just like I oppose the war in Iran in the trade war with Canada. That's New Hampshire independent.>>: 他确实在谈到特朗普总统时说“我实际上从未见过这个人”。
英文原文
>> He literally says that I actually never even met the man referring to President Trump.>>: 这是真的吗？他从来没见过他？
英文原文
>> Is that true? He's never met him?>>: 他是这么说的。而且我们没有任何证据表明他们见过面。
英文原文
>> That's what he says. And and we don't know of any evidence that they have met.>>: 但能说出这句话非同寻常。
英文原文
>> But saying it is quite a thing.>>: 能说出这句话确实很了不起。我是说，你真的得回想一下过去十年的共和党：与特朗普保持哪怕一英寸的距离、表现出极微小的不忠，往往就足以让你被特朗普本人或他的选民基本盘赶出党派。而约翰·E·苏努努走出来说：“我不认识这家伙。你们在说什么呢？”
英文原文
>> Saying it is quite a thing. I mean, you really have to think about the Republican party of the past 10 years when taking even an inch of space from Trump showing a tiny bit of disloyalty is often enough to get you run out of the party either by the man himself or simply his base of voters. And here comes John E. Cenounu saying, "I don't know this guy. What are you talking about?">>: 没错。言下之意也是：我并不欠这家伙任何东西。
英文原文
>> Right. Implicitly also, I don't owe this guy.>>: 是的。是的。而他的对手克里斯·帕帕斯是来自新罕布什尔州的国会议员。他在众议院待了八年，帕帕斯一直试图将这场竞选上升为全国性议题。他极力主张：你知道，对联邦参议院的控制权取决于新罕布什尔州，而约翰·E·苏努努实际上将成为支持特朗普议程的一票。
但苏努努最近在辩论舞台上说了一番话，让我觉得非常震撼。两年后，总统就将卸任。我的问题是，我们下一步该走向何方？
英文原文
>> Yes. Yes. and his opponent Chris Papus is a congressman from New Hampshire. He's been in the House for eight years and Papis has really tried to nationalize this race. He's really tried to say, you know, control of the US Senate runs through New Hampshire and John E. Cenounu would in fact be, you know, a vote for the Trump agenda. But there's something Cenounu said on the debate stage recently that I found quite striking. In two years, the president will leave office. And my question is, where do we go next?>>: 苏努努所说的是，
英文原文
>> What Cenounu said,>>: 这场参议院选举关乎未来。不是下一年，不是未来六年，而是国家的长远未来。
英文原文
>> this Senate election is about the future. Not the next year, not the next six years, but the long-term future of the country.>>: 特朗普总统再任职两年就结束了。我致力于成为代表新罕布什尔州的独立声音，专注于我们本州的核心优先事项。
英文原文
>> President Trump is only going to be president for another two years. I'm committed to being a voice from New Hampshire that's independent, that's focused on our priorities here at home.>>: 我参选是为了思考下一步是什么，超越那之后的是什么。
英文原文
>> I'm running to think about what's next, what's beyond that.>>: 这种信息在新罕布什尔州的共鸣度如何？
英文原文
>> How well is that message resonating in New Hampshire?>>: 我们知道这让他保持了竞争力。新罕布什尔州自2010年以来就没有选出过共和党参议员。在此后的几场竞选中，民主党人均以较大优势获胜。珍妮·沙欣在2020年以大约16个百分点的优势连任。玛吉·哈桑在2022年赢了9个百分点。这些都是民主党人对阵更具特朗普色彩的共和党人的竞选。而眼下的苏努努则与特朗普保持距离。最新的《纽约时报》/锡耶纳学院民意调查显示，苏努努落后帕帕斯大约5个百分点。秋季早些时候，另一项民调实际上显示苏努努领先几个百分点。因此，这表明新罕布什尔州的竞争比我们长期以来看到的更加激烈。
因此，共和党参议院候选人在非常偏向民主党的这两个新英格兰州能拥有如此强的竞争力，这一事实开始向我们表明：在这个共和党品牌形象和特朗普声望几乎具有毒性的政治时刻，这些非MAGA、独立于特朗普的共和党人切中了某种要害。
是的，在过去几个周期参选的大多数共和党人都押注于获胜的方法是激发特朗普的MAGA共和党基本盘。那就是忘掉温和派，不必太担心独立选民或可能跨越党派界限的民主党人，全力以赴地去鼓动MAGA选民。
英文原文
>> We know that it's keeping him in the game. New Hampshire hasn't elected a Republican to the Senate since 2010. And in some of the races since, Democrats racked up big margins. Jean Shaheen was reelected by something like 16 points in 2020. Maggie Hassan won by nine percentage points in 2022. These are Democrats running against Trumpier Republicans. And here's Cenounu keeping his distance from Trump. And the latest New York Times Sienna University poll showed Cenounu trailing Papus by about 5 percentage points. Earlier in the fall, another poll actually showed Cenounu ahead by a couple of points. So that signals a more competitive race in New Hampshire than we've seen in a long time. So, the fact that Republican Senate candidates are as competitive as they are in these two New England states that like Democrats a lot starts to tell us that these non-maga independent of Trump Republicans are on to something in this political moment where the Republican party's brand and Trump's popularity is almost toxic.Yes, most Republicans running over the past couple of cycles have made a bet that the way to win is to fire up Trump's MAGAR Republican base. It is to forget about moderates, to not worry so much about independent voters or Democrats who might cross the aisle and really go allin firing up MAGA voters.
>>: 对吧？
英文原文
>> Right?>>: 天下的约翰·苏努努们和天下的苏珊·柯林斯们，他们正在尝试不同的道路。他们试图通过接触中间选民来获胜。那些不喜欢特朗普的人，那些也许从未喜欢过他的人，并告诉他们：“我能给你们带来一些东西。我拥有更独立的品牌形象。我愿意违抗总统。我甚至根本不认识这家伙。加入我吧。”这是一种押注：赌有足够多的独立选民，有足够多从未喜欢过特朗普的共和党人，以及有足够多愿意跨越党派界限的民主党人，在苏珊·柯林斯这里能保住她的职位，或者在苏努努这里能让他当选。
我们稍后回来。
英文原文
>> The John Eenus of the world and the Susan Collinses of the world, they're trying something different. They are trying to win by reaching out to voters in the middle. The ones that don't love Trump. The ones that maybe never did and say, "I have something for you. I have a more independent brand. I have a willingness to defy the president. I don't even know the guy. Come with me." It's a bet that there's enough independent voters out there. There's enough Republicans who never loved Trump. And there's enough Democrats willing to cross the aisle to either keep them in office. in Susan Collins case or to put them there in Cenounus.We'll be right back.
红州与摇摆州的困局：当亲特朗普候选人试图转型
>>: 那么杰斯，如果说对于在此时许多选民对总统不满的共和党人而言，潜在的制胜之道是与总统拉开距离，但这里存在一个问题：并非所有人都是苏珊·柯林斯或约翰·苏努努，能够做到这一点；相反，许多共和党人与特朗普形影不离，因为正是他成就了他们。他们欠他人情，并且他们所在州的选民也期望他们保持忠诚。那么，这该如何行得通呢？
英文原文
So Jess, if a potentially winning formula for Republicans in this moment when so many voters are upset with the president is to distance themselves from the president, there's a problem which is that not everyone is Susan Collins or John Cenounu and can pull that off and instead there are lots of Republicans who are literally glued to Trump at the hip because he made them who they are. they owe him and the voters in their state expect loyalty from them. So, how's that supposed to work?>>: 这正是许多在其他摇摆州乃至面临严峻阻力的红州参选的共和党人所面临的关键问题。他们正在审视民调。他们看到即便在过去曾投票支持特朗普总统的本州内，特朗普的支持率也很低，他们越来越清楚自己需要与总统拉开一定的距离。他们在很多情况下藉以走到今天这一位置的联盟——热烈拥抱特朗普是赢得共和党初选的途径，且十年来一直是这样——突然之间变成了一项包袱。所以你看到了像阿什利·辛森这样的人。
英文原文
>> That is the key problem for a whole bunch of Republicans who are running in other purple states and even red states that are facing tough headwinds. They are looking at the polls. They are seeing Trump's low approval ratings even in their states which have elected President Trump in the past and they increasingly know that they need to put some distance between themselves and the president. That the alliance they made that in many cases got them to where they are bear hugging Trump is how you win a Republican primary and that has been the case for 10 years has suddenly become a little bit of a liability. And so you have someone like Ashley Henson.>>: “我参选是为了成为特朗普总统在联邦参议院的头号盟友。”
英文原文
>> I am running to be President Trump's top ally in the United States Senate>>: 她正在爱荷华州竞选参议员。我知道你们周一在节目中讨论过她。她去年曾表示她将成为特朗普在参议院的最强盟友。
英文原文
>> who's running for Senate in Iowa. I know you talked about her on the show on Monday. She said last year that she would be Trump's strongest ally in the Senate.>>: “总统先生，我想对您的支持表示感谢。我不会让您失望的。”
英文原文
>> Mr. President, I want to say thank you for your support. I will not let you down.>>: 现在她正在投放广告。
英文原文
>> Now she's running ads.>>: “我是阿什利·辛森。过去，跨越党派界限不仅是可以接受的，而且是备受期待的。”
英文原文
>> I'm Ashley Henson. Used to be that reaching across the aisle wasn't just okay. it was expected.>>: 强调她将具备两党合作精神的想法。
英文原文
>> Emphasizing the idea that she would be bipartisan>>: “因为跨党派合作并不总是一帆风顺，但这是取得成果的途径。”
英文原文
>> because working across the aisle isn't always easy, but it's how you get results.>>: 她正在提出一种类似苏珊·柯林斯式的论调，
英文原文
>> She's making a Susan Collinsesque argument,>>: 对吧？而且与苏珊·柯林斯不同的是，她在联邦参议院没有数十年展现两党合作并在不同时期违抗特朗普总统的履历。
英文原文
>> right? And unlike Susan Collins, she doesn't have decades in the US Senate of demonstrating bipartisanship and bucking from time to time President Trump.>>: 是的。我们在全国各地的红州都看到了这种态势的展现。我想到的一处是佛罗里达州，玛丽亚·埃尔维拉·萨拉萨尔众议员是那里的众议员候选人，其所在选区是特朗普总统在2024年赢下的。大约一个月前，她推出了一则非常引人注目的广告。
英文原文
>> Yes. And we're seeing this kind of dynamic play out in red states around the country. One place I'm thinking about is Florida where Representative Maria Alvirara Salazar, she's a candidate running for the House there in a district that President Trump won in 2024. About a month ago, she came out with a very striking ad.>>: “总统先生，您在移民执法方面的某些举措走得太远了。今年七月……”
英文原文
>> Mr. President, some of your immigration enforcement efforts have gone too far. In July,>>: 在广告中，她直接且有力地批评了特朗普的移民政策。
英文原文
>> in it, she directly and forcefully criticize Trump's immigration policy.>>: “小心你的顾问就移民政策向你提出的建议。在2024年帮助你入主白宫的正是这批拉美裔人，他们如今感到被背叛了。你可以……”
英文原文
>> Be careful what your adviserss are telling you about immigration policies. The same Hispanics who help you get to the White House in 2024 feel betrayed today. You can be>>: 那则广告道出了全国各地共和党人的担忧。你知道，特朗普是以移民执法为竞选主张的，但共和党人开始担心这会在选民中让他们付出代价，在实践中已经变得不受欢迎。这种担忧在萨拉萨尔那里尤其感同身受，因为她的选区有70%是拉美裔。
此外还有堪萨斯州。这是一个深红州，自1932年以来就未曾选出过民主党参议员。这像是参议院中所有州里持续时间最长的单党连胜纪录。现任共和党参议员罗杰·马歇尔在整个参议院任职期间一直是特朗普的坚定盟友，在此之前他曾担任众议员。面对民主党人亚当·汉密尔顿的强劲挑战，甚至连他也发现自己不得不以微妙的方式远离特朗普。今年早些时候，你可以看到他因一次对农民和牧场主造成沉重打击的ICE突击行动未提前通知地方当局而告诫特朗普政府。你还看到他极其温和地对特朗普进行了反驳，表示不同意特朗普总统对一家在堪萨斯州运营的加拿大飞机制造商发出的威胁。像他这样的人竟然会做出哪怕极其微小的退缩，这确实令人瞩目。
但你也可以看到像他这样的人正在极其努力地试图拿捏平衡。
“我确实想强调我们需要特朗普的选民出来投票，这就是我今晚对人们的呼吁。如果你希望特朗普的议程继续下去，如果你……”
英文原文
>> That ad is speaking to concerns that Republicans have around the country. You know, Trump ran on immigration enforcement, but Republicans are beginning to worry that that is costing them with voters that it's become unpopular in practice. And this is the kind of concern that really hits home for Salazar, whose district is 70% Hispanic. And then there's also Kansas. This is a deep red state, a place that hasn't elected a Democrat to the Senate since 1932. It's like the longest partisan streak in the Senate of any state. Roger Marshall, the incumbent senator, the Republican, he has been a strong Trump ally for the entirety of his time in the Senate. He was in the House before that. And even he now has found himself in the face of a strong challenge by the Democrat Adam Hamilton having to back away from Trump in these subtle ways. Earlier this year, you saw him admonish the Trump administration for not alerting local authorities before an ICE raid that was tough on farmers and ranchers. And you saw him push back on Trump ever so slightly, saying he disagreed with a threat President Trump made to an Canadian airplane maker that operates in Kansas. And the fact that someone like him would be backing away ever so slightly is really striking. But you can also see someone like him really working hard to thread that needle. I do want to emphasize we need the Trump voters to come out and that would be my my appeal tonight to people. If you want the Trump agenda to continue, if you>>: 例如，在辩论舞台上，他实际上对特朗普以及特朗普的议程为堪萨斯州人民所做的一切进行了相当充满激情的整体辩护。
英文原文
>> on the debate stage, for example, he actually made a pretty impassion defense overall of what Trump and Trump's agenda has done for people in Kansas.>>: “特朗普总统并不总是对的。但我确实认为……我很庆幸拥有这样一种关系，我可以拿起电话与他讨论他正在考虑的事情的利弊。谢谢您，先生。”
英文原文
>> President Trump is not always right. Uh but I do think that we it's it's great that I have a relationship that I can pick up the phone and discuss with him the pros and cons of what he's contemplating. Thank you, Mr.>>: 他还没准备好彻底放弃。
英文原文
>> He's not ready to, you know, cut bait entirely.>>: 到目前为止，根据我们在节目中讨论过的民调，在爱荷华州和堪萨斯州等地，这些共和党参议员候选人试图与特朗普拉开距离的努力似乎可能为时已晚、收效甚微。因为在这两个极其偏向共和党的州，选举形势都非常焦灼。我认为共和党人对他们很有可能失败的现实可能性感到震惊。
英文原文
>> So far, based on the polling that we've talked about on the show, it would seem that the efforts by these Republican Senate candidates in places like Iowa and in Kansas to distance themselves from Trump might be too little, too late. Because in both of those very Republican states, the elections are extremely close. And the Republicans, I think, are startled by the very real possibility that they could lose.>>: 是的。我认为，当总统对当今如此多共和党人的政治品牌至关重要时，要想令人信服地与总统拉开距离是很困难的。而在像堪萨斯这样的州，你可以看到民主党人确实在试图利用这一点。亚当·汉密尔顿是一位牧师。他形容自己是一位思想独立的民主党人，并且他非常努力地去争取该州的温和派共和党人。堪萨斯州那一批真正怀念鲍勃·多尔的共和党人，
英文原文
>> Yes. I think it's hard to credibly put distance between yourself and the president when the president is so crucial to the political brand of so many Republicans today. And in a state like Kansas, you see the Democrat really trying to take advantage of that. Adam Hamilton, he's this pastor. He describes himself as an independent-minded Democrat, and he is working really hard to appeal to moderate Republicans in that state. The kind of Republicans in Kansas who really miss Bob Dole,>>: 从未真正喜欢过特朗普的人，对关税、柴油成本、经济以及政府多项政策给当地农民带来的冲击感到沮丧的人。他积极伸出援手说：“我不是一个可怕的民主党人。我不喜欢社会主义。
英文原文
>> who never really loved Trump, who are frustrated with tariffs and the cost of diesel and the economy and the impact that various administration policies have had on farmers there. He's really reaching out and saying, "I'm not a scary Democrat. I don't like socialism.>>: 我就像柯林斯和苏努努一样。”
英文原文
>> I'm like Collins and Cen.">>: 是的。是的。“跟我来吧。”几周前我去了堪萨斯州的哈钦森市，那是位于2024年特朗普以大幅优势胜出的一个县。亚当·汉密尔顿在那里坐满了一个相当大的剧院，讨论这些内容。我与很多那里的选民交谈过。
英文原文
>> Yes. Yes. Come along with me. And I was down in Kansas a couple weeks ago in the city of Hutchinson, which is a it's in a county where Trump won by many, many percentage points back in 2024. And Adam Hamilton filled a pretty big theater there talking about this stuff. And I talked to a lot of those voters. And>>: 我想说，我交谈过的大多数选民实际上都是登记在册的共和党人，他们厌倦了有一位在他们看来在投票上亦步亦趋追随特朗普的参议员，他们没有被马歇尔与总统之间做出的任何极其微小的区分所说服，来到那里是为了倾听汉密尔顿的主张。
当然，我们应该说明一点，只是为了打破我们自己的论点——或者我应该说是你的论点，不是我的——那就是尽管我们在此阐述了这一切，依然有大量坚定的MAGA共和党候选人毫无歉意地继续与唐纳德·特朗普紧紧抱在一起。这些深红地区的共和党人几乎毫无疑问会赢得他们的选举。而且他们将继续扛起MAGA主义的大旗向前走。
英文原文
>> I would say most of the voters I talked to were in fact registered Republicans who were tired of having a senator that they felt voted in lock step with Trump, weren't convinced by, you know, any any very subtle differentiations Marshall had made with the president and were there to to hear Hamilton out. Of course, we should just say, just to pop our own thesis, or your thesis, I should say, is not mine, that there are plenty of committed MAGA Republican candidates who are still bear hugging Donald Trump unapologetically despite everything we have laid out here. And these are Republicans in deep red places who will almost without a doubt win their elections. And they're going to continue to carry the mantle of MAGASism forward.特朗普影响力的分水岭：深红州与未来走向
>>: 绝对是这样。我是说，在过去的几周里，我们看到特朗普总统巡回全美，前往深红地区，与他和共和党认为无论阻力多大他都能助其跨越胜选线的候选人并肩出现。但让我们看看像得克萨斯州这样的地方，对吧？这是一个非常偏红的州。我认为自1988年以来，共和党人在那里的参议院竞选中一直保持着连胜。
特朗普全力背书了州总检察长肯·帕克斯顿，这是一位缺点相当明显的候选人。他曾被弹劾，受到过调查。他是一个复杂的候选人。而这里的押注在于，无论他存在什么问题，他与特朗普之间的结盟都会起作用。
英文原文
>> Absolutely. I mean, over the past couple of weeks, we have seen President Trump tore the country, go to deep red places, and appear side by side with candidates that he and the Republican party believe he can pull over the line no matter the headwinds. But let's think about a place like Texas, right? This is a very red state. Republicans have had a very good run of winning Senate races there since I believe 1988.Trump through his endorsement behind Ken Paxton, the state attorney general, a candidate who is pretty flawed. He's been impeached. He's been investigated. He's a complicated candidate. And the bet here was that whatever his issues, an alliance between him and Trump was going to work.
>>: 如今距离选举还有不到一周的时间，在一次又一次的民调中，我们看到民主党人詹姆斯·塔拉里科在得克萨斯州领先于帕克斯顿。这是非常显著的。这是我们很长一段时间以来没有见过的现象。这引发了一个疑问：即便是在那里，特朗普的支持是否真的足以助帕克斯顿跨过终点线。
英文原文
>> And now here we are a little less than a week before the election and poll after poll after poll, we've seen the Democrat James Terico leading Paxton in Texas. It's remarkable. It's not something we've seen in a really long time. And it raises the question of whether Trump's support is actually enough to pull Paxton over the line even there.>>: 那么杰斯，让我为你设想一个情景。这是一个理论上的情景：得克萨斯州的肯·帕克斯顿等人落败，而缅因州的苏珊·柯林斯获胜。这次中期选举的主要教训最终感觉像是：对共和党人而言，正确的策略是真正与特朗普总统拉开一定的距离。这是否基本上确保了特朗普总统任期的最后两年会带来共和党人越来越大程度的独立，乃至对特朗普的摒弃？
英文原文
>> So Jess, let me paint a scenario for you. It's a theoretical scenario where someone like Ken Paxton in Texas loses and Susan Collins in Maine wins. And the major lesson of these midterms ends up feeling like the right formula for Republicans is to really put some distance between themselves and President Trump. Does that basically ensure that the last two years of the Trump presidency bring greater and greater levels of Republican independence and even rejection of Trump?>>: 我认为有可能。这是一个很大的假设，对吧，迈克尔？我的意思是，我们完全不知道选举日会发生什么。我们不知道民调是否准确。
英文原文
>> I think it could. That is a big if, right, Michael? I mean, we have no idea what is going to happen on election day. We have no idea if the polls are right.>>: 但如果类似的事情发生，如果帕克斯顿落选而柯林斯守住席位，有些共和党人可能会将此视为继续后退疏远的某种通行证。你知道，特朗普时代一个引人注目的现象是：许多共和党人如果在私下被问及，会说“我不喜欢这家伙。我不喜欢他的政治。我不喜欢他的做派”。他们觉得自己像是被他劫持了一样。如果他们认为在政治上这样做是安全的，他们就会非常渴望摆脱他。
英文原文
>> But if something like that happens, if Paxton goes down and Collins holds on, there are Republicans who may see that as a kind of permission slip to keep backing away. You know, one remarkable thing about the Trump era is the number of Republicans who, if you ask them in private, say, "I don't like this guy. I don't like his politics. I don't like the way he is." Who feel like they've sort of been held hostage by him. They're pretty desperate to get away from him if they think it's politically safe to do so.>>: 而那种情景将代表政治安全的开端。
英文原文
>> And that scenario would represent the beginning of political safety.>>: 没错。它将代表这样一种观念：突然之间从特朗普身边走开并不一定是选民会为此惩罚你的事情。
英文原文
>> Exactly. It would represent the idea that suddenly stepping away from Trump is not something that voters will necessarily punish you for.>>: 值得注意的是，如果这种情况发生，它伴随而来的是特朗普正式成为跛脚鸭。当每位总统成为跛脚鸭时，其影响力往往都会有所衰退。
嗯，是的，从历史上看确实如此。不过就特朗普而言，他在第一任期和第二任期之间的离任阶段，在政治上施展的权力与第一任期期间一样大，这是非常罕见的。我们尚不知道当极具个人威力的唐纳德·特朗普成为跛脚鸭时会是什么样子，因为当他甚至还不是总统时，他就能决定一名共和党国会议员的未来。这是真的。这是真的。而且在那个时候，你知道，他仍然有能力再次竞选，他也确实参选了。他现在不再拥有这一资格了。但我们所知道的另一件事是，他仍然有能力为共和党人筹集巨额资金。他仍然控制着党派机器。他实际上仍然控制着共和党全国委员会（RNC）。他可能依然拥有……
英文原文
>> And it's worth noting that should this happen, it comes alongside Trump becoming officially a lame duck. And every president kind of loses some of their juice when they become a lame duck. Well, yes, historically that was true. Except in the case of Trump, he exercised as much power out of office in that period in between his first and second term politically as he did during the first term, which was remarkable. We don't yet know what the singularly powerful Donald Trump is when he's a lame duck because when he was not even president, he could determine the future of a Republican member of Congress. It's true. It's true. And and at that time, you know, he still had the ability to run again, and he did. He no longer has that ability. But the other thing we do know is that he still has the ability to raise a lot of money for Republicans. He still has control over the party apparatus. He still has control essentially over the RNC. He may yet have>>: 共和党全国委员会，对吧？
英文原文
>> the Republican National Committee, right?>>: 他可能在谁能在共和党内部获得权力方面依然拥有很大发言权，我认为我们不应该低估这一点。但如果在投票箱前，我们看到选民抛弃了那些与他走得太近的候选人，并奖励了那些与他保持距离的人，我认为我们将看到更多共和党候选人希望效仿那种模式。而且我认为我们将看到这成为党内关于2028年及以后何去何从的讨论中更大的一部分。
英文原文
He may yet have a lot of say over who gains power in the Republican party, and I don't think we should discount that. But if at the ballot box we see voters rejecting candidates who were too close to him and rewarding those who kept their distance, I think we're going to see a lot more Republican candidates wanting to follow in that model. And I think we're going to see that become a much bigger part of the party's conversation about what comes next in 2028 and beyond.>>: 对吧？像苏珊·柯林斯和约翰·苏努努这样的人可能会告诉你，共和党的那个版本、共和党的那个未来，正是一个与其过去的共和党相似的形态。而现实是，正如你在这场对话一开始所说，特朗普已经将很多这类人物赶出了政府、赶出了华盛顿。因此他们所剩无几了。所以我想知道你是否赞同这样一种评估：这在某种程度上是对旧共和党的复兴，还是一个全新的后特朗普时代的开端？
英文原文
>> Right? And what someone like Susan Collins and John Cenounu might tell you is that that version of the Republican party, that future of the Republican party is the one that resembles the Republican party of their past. And the reality is that, as you said in this conversation at the beginning, Trump has run many of those figures out of government, out of Washington. And so there isn't really a lot of them left. And so I wonder if you agree with that assessment that this is to some degree a reclamation of an old Republican party or if it's a starting of a new post Trump one.>>: 我认为这将是一个重大悬念。我的意思是，当我们谈论特朗普以及他对共和党造成的影响时，我们说他把一切都给炸碎了，对吧？而苏珊·柯林斯和她的政治生涯甚至有可能比特朗普时代活得更长久，这一事实说明了在特朗普之前存在的事物确实比我们预想的具有更持久的生命力。
你知道，最近几天在俄亥俄州发生的一件事让我感到非常震惊：特朗普的忠实追随者维韦克·拉马斯瓦米投放了一则如今臭名昭著的广告，利用对手的母亲来称其为骗子，挖出了她童年时期难以启齿的糟糕细节。这引发了俄亥俄州共和党建制派的强烈反弹。在那里，你同样有像迈克·德瓦恩州长这样的人物，他在俄亥俄州政坛拥有悠久的执业生涯。
英文原文
>> I think that's going to be the big question. I mean it's it's remarkable when we talk about Trump and the effect he's had on the Republican party. We say he blew it all up, right? And the fact that it's even possible that Susan Collins and her political career could outlive the Trump era speaks to the idea that what came before Trump really does have more staying power than we might have thought. You know, one thing that I have found really striking in recent days has happened in Ohio where the now infamous ad from VC Roma Swami, the Trump acolyte, using his opponent's mother to call her a liar, kind of dredging up the unspeakably awful details of her childhood. That has prompted a real backlash from Ohio's Republican establishment. There too, you have someone like Governor Mike DeWine who has had a long career in Ohio politics.>>: 老派的主流共和党人。
英文原文
>> Old school mainline Republican.>>: 绝对是。他在政治圈里担任过所有你能想象的职务。其中很多是在特朗普之前完成的。他今天依然担任州长，他站出来表示这则广告非常非常令人不安，即便在特朗普和特朗普主义在某种程度上已经改变了俄亥俄州共和党人的内涵的情况下——例如J·D·万斯在那里成为参议员，接着伯尼·莫雷诺在那里成为参议员。维韦克·拉马斯瓦米曾希望成为某种打破常规的新型俄亥俄州政客，摆脱过去的那些共和党人。你看到那些建制派共和党人对其进行强烈的回击，说“嘿，这不是我们的风格”，而且他们为了表达观点，实际上甘愿置维韦克·拉马斯瓦米的竞选于危险之中。
英文原文
>> Absolutely. He has he has done every job you can do in politics. A lot of that he has done before Trump. He remains governor today coming up standing up and saying this ad is deeply deeply troubling even as Trump and Trumpism has kind of changed what it means to be a Republican in Ohio with someone like JD Vance becoming a senator there and then Bernie Moreno becoming a senator there. VC Ramaswami wanted to be kind of the next mold breaking Ohio politician dispensing with those Republicans of the past. You see those establishment Republicans really pushing back on it saying hey this is not who we are and they are willing to actually put VC Ramaswami's campaign in danger to make their point>>: 对，因为他们所传达的是：我们依然在这里。
他们在说“我们依然在这里，我们不喜欢这样”。因此，我认为唐纳德·特朗普确实打碎了共和党，这是毋庸置疑的。在他之前的很多东西如今已经不复存在，部分原因是他亲自摒弃了那些人。但如果你仔细观察，仍有一些特朗普时代之前的共和党人留下，在静静地等待观察11月3日会发生什么。随着他们的政党开始探索未来的走向，他们会希望参与塑造这一未来。
英文原文
>> right because what they're saying is we're still here. They're saying we're still here and we don't like this. So, I don't think there's any question that Donald Trump did blow up the Republican party. A lot of what was there before him is gone now, in part because he dispensed with those people himself. But if you look closely, there are some pre-TTrump Republicans left quietly waiting to see what happens on November 3rd. And as their party starts to figure what comes next, they are going to want to help shape it.>>: 好的，杰斯，非常感谢你。
英文原文
>> Well, Jess, thank you very much.>>: 谢谢你，迈克尔。
我们稍后回来。
英文原文
>> Thank you, Michael.We'll be right back.
新闻简讯与制作团队
>>: 以下是您需要了解的其他新闻。
周二晚上以色列各地开始计票时，本雅明·内塔尼亚胡及其由加迪·埃森科特领导的反对派似乎都没有立即获得足以掌控议会多数席位的足够支持。
这次选举是自10月7日哈马斯袭击以来的首次选举，被广泛视为对该国任职时间最长的总理内塔尼亚胡及其极右翼执政联盟的公投。
选民投票率创下历史新高，并让以色列的两个阿拉伯政党取得了有史以来的最佳战绩。这两个政党在接下来的几周内可能会被证明至关重要，因为目前看来，无论是内塔尼亚胡还是其反对派，如果没有它们的支持，似乎都无法组建政府。
今天的节目由凯特琳·奥基夫、克莱尔·坦尼斯凯特、阿德里安娜·赫斯特和埃里克·克雷普克制作。由德文·泰勒编辑。包含罗文·涅斯托、丹·鲍威尔和玛丽安·洛萨诺的音乐，由艾莉莎·莫克斯利完成工程制作。我们的主题音乐由Wonderly创作。特别鸣谢迈克尔·戈尔德。
以上就是本期《The Daily》的全部内容。我是迈克尔·巴巴罗。明天见。
英文原文
Here's what else you need to know.As vote counting began across Israel on Tuesday night, it appeared that neither Benjamin Netanyahu nor his opponents led by Gotti Eisenote had immediately secured enough support to command a majority in the country's parliament.
The election, the first since the October 7th assault by Hamas, is widely seen as a referendum on Netanyahu, the country's longest serving prime minister, and his far-right coalition.
Voter turnout reached record highs and gave Israel's two Arab parties their strongest showing ever. Those two parties may now prove crucial in the coming weeks because it appears that neither Netanyahu nor his opponents will be able to form a government without their support.
Today's episode was produced by Caitlyn O'Keefe, Claire Tennis, Sketter, Adrienne Hurst, and Eric Krepky. It was edited by Devon Taylor. Contains music by Rowan Misto, Dan Powell, and Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Wonderly. Special thanks to Michael Gold.
That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Bora. See you tomorrow.