Kyra Blackwell: If you buy this thing and it sits in your vanity and you never use it, the value is zero. So if the one that you keep using is the one that cost a little bit more, so be it. That's the one you should use.

Rosie Garin: I'm Rosie Garin.

Kyra Blackwell: I'm Kyra Blackwell. And you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.

Kyra Blackwell: Hi, Kyra.

Rosie Garin: Hi, Rosie.

Kyra Blackwell: Hi, my friend. Uh, it's winter time, isn't it?

Rosie Garin: It's so cold.

Kyra Blackwell: It's cold in New York. It's cold.

Rosie Garin: It's windy. It's blistering.

Kyra Blackwell: We're talking moisturizers today, and that's not incidental. It's dry.

Rosie Garin: Yeah. My skin is crying right now.

Kyra Blackwell: Mine, too. So, I was excited to see Wirecutter's Guide published about facial moisturizers and body lotions, specifically things you can find in the drugstore. I want to know more because I realize I know very, very little. Yeah, I'm really excited to learn more, too. And I'm excited for the person who's going to take us on this journey. It's Jen Sullivan. She is amazing. She's a senior editor here at Wirecutter on the beauty team. And she's been covering beauty for at least 25 years. So, she's going to really walk us through the basics of moisturizer, what you know, what you think you might know, and how to apply them, and keep your skin smooth, soft, and hydrated all winter long. So, 60,000 questions for Jen after the break. We'll be right back.

Kyra Blackwell: Welcome back. With us now is Jen Sullivan, a senior editor on Wirecutter's beauty team who's been covering beauty for at least 25 years. She also hosted her own award-winning podcast, Fat Mascara. So, Jen really is a pro. Hi, Jen.

Jen Sullivan: Hi.

Kyra Blackwell: Hi. Today, we're talking moisturizer, and we're going to zoom way out to start. So, can you just first explain what we mean when we say moisturizer? What are we talking about? Uh, we can meet a lot of things, but I think we talk about topical products you put on your skin to add back in hydration, lock in hydration, prevent water loss, soften your skin. They do a lot of things. And who is it good for? Who needs to be using moisturizer? I would argue all of us at some point in our lives because, you know, when you're young, your skin barrier is not super strong. You might not be good at holding in moisture. As you get older, your skin gets drier.

Jen Sullivan: And explain what you mean by skin barrier. Meaning your cell's ability to hold in the water that is in your skin is not as strong as someone who's a little bit older because I was talking about kids in that for particular example.

Rosie Garin: Gotcha.

Rosie Garin: So, Jen, say somebody does the Wirecutter method at home and maybe they buy like three different brands to try at once. What should their testing process actually look like?

Jen Sullivan: Oh, I'm so glad they're trying to mimic what we do in the office because we put a lot of work into it. If you want to buy three and you want to try, I mean, I would say buy one, see if it works, then buy the other two.

Rosie Garin: Yeah.

Jen Sullivan: But if you have sensitive skin, I would say patch test first. Just use a little bit to make sure that it doesn't irritate you. Right on contact.

Rosie Garin: On any part of your body.

Jen Sullivan: Dermatologists say, and by the way, guys, I am not a dermatologist. So everything I'm saying, take with a grain of, you know, salt. Try your body first and make sure that like you like the scent, it doesn't bother you, all that kind of stuff.

Rosie Garin: Got it? And then I don't know if people are going to like this, but at least 30 days to see how it works for your skin.

Jen Sullivan: 30 days.

Rosie Garin: It takes that long for your skin to like turn over and get a new set of skin cells going. So you really want to like see how it worked through that whole process.

Jen Sullivan: And you really do have to pinpoint. So if you're going to add something new to your routine, don't change anything else. So if you do see something wrong, you can know exactly what the problem is. Right.

Kyra Blackwell: Spoken like a Wirecutter editor. Yes. Single variable.

Rosie Garin: Yes. So, can you tell us what people should look for to know if the moisturizer is working or if it isn't working?

Jen Sullivan: I feel like a good moisturizer, you're going to forget about like you're going to find yourself using it because your skin feels comfortable and good. It doesn't feel like anything. It doesn't make you feel worse and your skin is acting the way it should.

Rosie Garin: Yeah.

Jen Sullivan: And if it's not, you're itchy. You're maybe a little red. You're maybe just a little Yeah. Well, then definitely change things up. Change it. Change it up.

Rosie Garin: Okay. So this guide, this specifically this facial moisturizer guide, we have seven picks and eight in the body lotion guide. Can you first explain the difference between facial moisturizer and body lotion because I think many people use them interchangeably. Some people use them interchangeably or at least want to or at least want to.

Jen Sullivan: The difference between face moisturizer and body moisturizer is marketing.

Rosie Garin: No way.

Jen Sullivan: Yes. I mean, there are products there are body products you can use around your face, face products you can use on your body. It depends on you and your particular skin needs, but by and large, it's a lot of the same ingredients in both those types of products. I will say that the body skin tends to be drier. So, those products tend to be like richer formulas, a little bit thicker, maybe more occlusives, which are those uh skin care protecting. They protect the barrier of the skin.

Rosie Garin: Like a Vaseline.

Jen Sullivan: Petroleum jelly is an occlusive, yes, but there are lots of others. But like some people don't like the feel of a thicker product on their face. It feels greasy and your face has more oil glands, so it's kind of got its own moisture going on that you might not always find on your body. But by and large, if like a product works for you all over, you only need one product. Live your life.

Rosie Garin: So, is there a cheat sheet for people to know or remember where like they know that they have a skin type, what kind of moisturizer will match with that skin type? How do you make that decision a little bit easier?

Jen Sullivan: It's all preference. It really is. That's why we have so many choices because we want to give you options. There's no set math equation of like drier skin needs more of X ingredient. It's different for everybody. We're we're unique people. We have a whole microbiome that's completely different than the person next to us. We like different things, how they feel, how they smell, all of that. So, that's why we have so many choices. I will say if you tend to be on the drier side, our testers found this. A dermatologist would say that thicker, more occlusive, more hydrating, richer might be the word that I'm trying to use. Those are the products you might want to look for. If you have oily skin and you put that on, a lot of people come away being like, "That made me greasy." Yeah.

Rosie Garin: So, you don't want that. Yeah. Okay. And when it comes to moisturizing, what do you think is the most misunderstood skin type?

Jen Sullivan: I mean, I would talk to a dermatologist to really get into this, but for me, it's probably sensitivity in general. The idea of sensitive skin. I think a lot of people think they're inherently just so sensitive, but what's really going on is something in their environment or some product that they're using. Not even a skincare product. Could be like the laundry detergent or the air was drier. So,

Rosie Garin: Cleaning products.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah. And then and then we try and fix the problem. We use more stuff to fix the problem and pairing back and making things simpler might be the fix. So, I think that's kind of a misunderstood concept. And the thing to be careful of with this moisturizer that we didn't touch on yet is the idea of active ingredients. These are the treatment ingredients. Like they might be in your face lotion, but they're for treating things. These are like retinols, peptides, sometimes alpha hydroxy acids. If you're just looking for moisture, don't pick something with actives. Just look for the hydrating ingredients because those actives can set up where you're building sensitivity.

Rosie Garin: What are people doing wrong when they're applying moisturizer?

Jen Sullivan: I would say...

Kyra Blackwell: Let's call some people out.

Rosie Garin: Ideally by name if you have any uh examples.

Jen Sullivan: Oh, we could get into that. But I think that the thing they're doing wrong is waiting till they're dry to apply the moisturizer. Like most people, you want to do it before you got in a cycle of my skin is dry and flaky and itchy. So, you want to apply it when your skin is just acting normal and you want to upkeep the hydration and also do it when skin is damp. And I went through years of being a beauty editor being like, "Oh, every time I try to apply moisturizer to damp skin, it gets all slimy or filmy." You've all heard this tip, right? Like, make sure your skin's damp when you apply your moisturizer. Lock in that water that's already there.

Jen Sullivan: So, I like talked to all these dermatologists and finally come to realize the word damp is like different for many people. I was picturing like got out of the shower, didn't towel off yet. I am damp. You're wet. No. No. They're like, "You can towel off. It's just within like the 3 minutes of toweling off, there's still moisture in your skin that hasn't started evaporating out of your skin yet." They consider that to be damp skin. So, if you start trying to put moisturizer on wet skin or just out of the shower, not towel dried, haven't you noticed it gets all really? It does get slimy. You're thinking in your head, "Oh, the derms told me I got to do it while it's wet." You're mixing your moisturizer with the water on your skin. You're watering it down.

Rosie Garin: So, by damp, what they mean is the skin has an inherent dampness still in its like epidermis, but it might be dry to the touch. Does that make sense?

Jen Sullivan: It does. And I learned something new today.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah. We're talking about moisture here, but the idea is hydration. So, there's things other than moisturizer that you can do to make sure you're more hydrated. And one of them is the shower temperature. Hot water really does dry out your skin.

Rosie Garin: No, you can't take my hot water.

Jen Sullivan: I know. And nobody likes to hear that.

Rosie Garin: Hot water dries out your skin.

Jen Sullivan: It absolutely does. It softens the lipid layer so that like your body loses moisture more quickly. The most incomprehensible thing to me, maybe in all of the world, is the idea of getting out of the shower, drying off, and then just going about your day. Can you imagine?

Rosie Garin: There are millions of us that can imagine. I can some days I am that person. It's our producer Abigail.

Kyra Blackwell: Our producer's raising hand. We all...

Rosie Garin: What and why?

Jen Sullivan: Some people don't feel dry and some people don't have that. It's like a muscle memory thing. That's your habit. You're used to it. But there's plenty of people that just go about their day.

Rosie Garin: How do things like age, pregnancy, menopause change people's skin? I guess number one, and moisturizing needs.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah, generally the older you get, the drier your skin gets. And they say that the most hydrated will ever be is before age 40. So after that, you're starting to get drier. Your skin doesn't retain moisture as well. And then as far as like how hormones affect your skin, this is something that happens to all genders. Like if your hormones are fluctuating, that affects how your skin looks and feels. So if you have changes that are sudden, I would say talk to a dermatologist. Like something could be going on.

Kyra Blackwell: That's interesting. I feel like when you're 10, maybe turn down the temperature of your shower. And then when you're 20, turn it down a couple more degrees. And when you're 30, turn it down. And then by 40, you'll be tepid. And then cold water. You'll be used to cold water. And then you don't have to Yeah. worry about that moisture.

Kyra Blackwell: All right. I'm going to recap here. Moisturizer is important. And if you are going to test out a moisturizer, maybe test it out um certainly your body before face. Facial moisturizer, body moisturizer. Often times it's marketing language that's differentiating the two. But put this moisturizer on when your skin is damp. Just do it. We are going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to do some myth busting with Jen. Plus, we'll talk about some key techniques you may not know when it comes to really locking that moisture in. Stick around.

Kyra Blackwell: Welcome back. Our guest today is Jen Sullivan, a senior editor on Wirecutter's beauty team. Today's episode is all about moisturizer. So, Jen, when you're walking down a drugstore aisle, there's so much to take in. You look left and right and there are all these marketing terms and all these really pretty labels and you just don't know what to pick. So, in your guide, it mentions that every dermatologist who was interviewed recommended looking for three key ingredients and that's humectants, emollients, and occlusives. Can you just break down quickly what each of these are and basically what they do?

Jen Sullivan: Humectants attract moisture to the skin either from deeper in the skin or from you know the environment. Occlusives lock in moisture and then emollients are actually skin softeners. Some of the humectants can be an emollient. Some of the occlusives can be an emollient but these are the things that sort of make your skin feel better.

Kyra Blackwell: Okay. Will it say that on the label for each moisturizer?

Jen Sullivan: It won't. But a humectant, again, the things that attract moisture are things like glycerin and hyaluronic acid.

Kyra Blackwell: Okay.

Jen Sullivan: An occlusive is that those are the locking in ones. This kind of makes sense to me. They're like the oils. They're the thicker ones. They're the plant oils, the shea butters, the petrolatum, the ones that like if you slathered it on, it would make like a protective barrier. Those are the occlusive ingredients. And then the emollients, those skin softeners,

Jen Sullivan: Again, some of the things I just mentioned can also be emollient, but something like squalane is like a true emollient.

Kyra Blackwell: Got it. And usually when you like you don't have to look at the label and look for any one of these things because the odds are that they always have all three.

Jen Sullivan: Yes. And you can just go to our Wirecutter guide because all of our picks have all three,

Kyra Blackwell: Right? And you do the work for us.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah. What a what a cheeky plug. Um what are some other popular marketing buzzwords that you might see or hear in the drugstore beauty aisle?

Kyra Blackwell: Things that might sound important but actually maybe aren't. How long do we have?

Jen Sullivan: As much as as much time as you want.

Jen Sullivan: The names of these products, they're like 15 words long and they're have a complex and it brightens and then we've got essences and we've got this and that and it's all marketing. The majority of those terms are not regulated. The one that gets me is medical grade. A cosmetic is a cosmetic. It is not a medicine. Medical grade means nothing with regards to skincare. Natural is another one. Natural means nothing. Glycerin is like, "Oo, it feels like chemistry class." can be from a natural source, but I get our instinct to want something that feels more natural, feels like I'm not putting an unnecessary product on my body. So, I think that's why companies use that word so much. And they might themselves define it as something that came from a plant-based source, but there's no regulation in the government as to what that means. So, it depends on how the company is defining the word themselves,

Kyra Blackwell: Right? I plant-based is another thing that you see I feel like and it's without regulation it's hard to know unless you go digging. Right.

Jen Sullivan: Correct. Like squalane can be plant-based. It can come from olives. That's plant-based. Doesn't really sound like something like coconut oil which sounds truly plant-based.

Rosie Garin: Right, Jen? Most of the pics in our guide are affordable drugstore brands. They're very affordable. Like you won't feel bad about buying them on the regular because you're not spending a bunch of money. But there are a couple that just aren't. They are maybe $100 more. You have one, I think it's the Augustinus Bader Rich Cream, which sounds expensive and it's like $300. Why would somebody pay that much for something that they could get for much cheaper?

Jen Sullivan: Because they can afford to.

Jen Sullivan: Truly, I think the moisturizer you want to use and that you like is based on what is my budget, what am I looking for, what I what am I going to know I reach for again and again. I will say the testers that tried that product pretty much all loved it. It's a luxurious experience. Yeah. And like you want to feel good. It's the same with like your food or your clothes or whatever. There's all levels that you can pay for. It's based on your own budget, your own choices, where you want to put your money. So, I mean, I wouldn't judge that. And that product is quite lovely.

Kyra Blackwell: But what makes it loveier than the rest?

Jen Sullivan: The story that they're telling about it, the bottle that it's in. You know, it has some proprietary ingredients you might not find in others. Maybe one of those when you put it on your skin, you were like, "This is the thing that solved all my problems."

Rosie Garin: And if that's you and that product is making your life better, go for it.

Kyra Blackwell: I like that. Okay. I'm not doing that, but I appreciate.

Rosie Garin: And the testing, the testing is brand concealed, right? So,

Jen Sullivan: It depends on the guide. We sometimes do two levels of testing. We first have our guide writer test it themselves, and they know what the brands are, and then they brand conceal it for others. So, it all depends on which guide we're talking about. Body lotions. We also have shower gels, soaps. I mean, soaps was kind of hard to brand conceal, but yeah,

Rosie Garin: This $300 moisturizer, though, I mean, I feel like if it's brand concealed and people are loving it, it's compelling.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah.

Rosie Garin: If you have $300 to try.

Jen Sullivan: I mean, it's about texture for a lot of people, too. Sometimes with a bit more money, a company could create a better texture because they're using ingredients that cost more at raw material level. I I won't say that difference is from $10 to $300. But again, these companies are paying not just for the raw materials that are in the product. All that marketing, maybe you heard about that product because you saw it on Instagram. That didn't get there out of nowhere. There was a marketing budget put behind it. So often times for a more expensive product, what you're paying for maybe slightly is the cost of goods being more, but definitely the packaging because the packaging is like heavier or it's glass or it looks more beautiful. And definitely the marketing of like, oh, I heard so and so uses it or why is it always on my feed? And that is what you're paying for.

Rosie Garin: So texture is a consideration for folks. Another thing is how something smells. So what I imagine is fragrance. How did that factor into the testing? And what are your thoughts there? Huge factor for a lot of people. Generally speaking, if you have sensitive skin, dermatologists say to look for fragrance-free products, which means there's no added fragrance. If you turn them over, you won't see the word parfum or fragrance on the ingredient label because these can be irritating. They're not irritating for all people, though. So, some of us like a scent because it encourages us to use it. So, they might have fragrance in them, and that doesn't mean it's bad for you. There's no inherent problem with it, unless it causes you irritation. So, we have picks that are both fragrance-free and those that also are just traditional and might have a fragrance in them.

Kyra Blackwell: And I imagine unscented is not fragrance free.

Jen Sullivan: Oh, no. There's a big difference. Fragrance-free means like no fragrance additives in there, which means actually sometimes when you smell the product, you'll smell something because you're smelling those moisturizers. Shea, for example, has a scent to it. And if you didn't add extra fragrances or masking fragrances, you're going to smell the shea, but it will still be fragrance-free. Unscented is different. That's like they might only add a fragrance that masks that she smell to get them to a neutral place. So, it kind of doesn't smell like anything, but that doesn't mean it's fragrance-free. There is that additive in there and it can still be causing irritation.

Kyra Blackwell: Got it. I think it it is important back to this idea that fragrance might not be an issue. Like, you might not have sensitive skin. It's sort of narrowing down what your skin wants and what it doesn't want. And sometimes the only way to do that is to sort of do that consistent testing for 30 days and figure out what's going on.

Jen Sullivan: Exactly. And different fragrances affect people differently. So, if you try one scented or fragrance product and you don't like it, doesn't immediately mean anything with fragrance is bad for you or it won't be good for you. I love it.

Rosie Garin: Which one do you use? What's your favorite moisturizer from our guide?

Jen Sullivan: The Outset's moisturizer is my favorite face and body.

Kyra Blackwell: Um, no. It's a smaller bottle, so I would not use it on my body. It's $44 when it's not on sale. So, that's another reason I would not use it on my body. Um, but I really like it. Actually, I started at Wirecutter just 6 months ago and I was so thrilled when I got here that that was already a Wirecutter pick and I was like, "Yes, justified." But it has squalane in it. It feels right down middle of the road. Not too light, not too greasy. It's nice glass bottle pump, simple packaging. Um, I use it every day.

Rosie Garin: Love for a less expensive option. Vanicream.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah, we love a van.

Kyra Blackwell: Shout out to Vanicream.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah.

Rosie Garin: Yeah, for me personally. Yeah. What about body oils? I've seen these in the drugstore. I've seen these on Instagram. I've seen these in bathrooms of

Jen Sullivan: I mean, I've seen people Tik Tok videos about like the steps that you should take in your just your moisturizing routine. You have to do creamy and then you have to lock in with an oil like and then you have to do it all while you're damp. Like, yeah, what about that?

Jen Sullivan: Oils are not hydrating. I think there's a lot of people also that look at like moisturizer like I could just use petroleum jelly or I could just use olive oil from the bottle. Those are occlusives which we talked about earlier. They're skin protectants. They lay down on the top of the skin and keep the moisture in there. But if you put them on dry skin, what moisture are you keeping in? You never put the moisture in to begin with. So now you've just locked in dry skin. You're protecting your skin. So it might seem softer and it might have an emollient factor. So it like looks softer, feels softer, but inherently underneath that occlusive, it's dry. So I think what you're seeing is marketers would like you to put the moisturizer on and then lock it in with an oil. But going back to a good moisturizer, it's going to have some of those occlusive ingredients already in it. I like to do something with Jojoba oil because it's very cheap and I always have access to it even when I'm traveling. That particular oil, and this is where it gets confusing, is both a humectant and an occlusive. And I'm sure you've probably noticed that it has an emollient property because it's softening your skin. But when you use multiple different kinds of these ingredients we talked about, you're getting a longer-lasting kind of hydration and I think it would be more effective. So, it definitely works. And if it's working for you, keep doing it. I love a body oil and especially when I'm outdoors. I like skiing. I like hiking in the winter. I will put on moisturizer and then put a layer of an occlusive such as Aquaphor or Vaseline as we were talking about petroleum jelly or a face oil. The Outset has a face oil I add in in winter or the body oils you were talking about. And I think a lot of people feel more comfortable. Their skin just feels nicer to them. They don't have that like itchy tightness when they do that extra step. And theoretically, you're you are kind of locking in whatever you've put on as a moisturizer. It's an additional step and it might not be needed necessarily, but it is...

Rosie Garin: An extra lock, right?

Jen Sullivan: Yeah. It's a value proposition in a way because it keeps in that moisture you put in and instead of applying moisturizer seven times throughout the day because I keep getting dry and I don't know why and I put it back on. If you locked it in in the morning with the oil on top, that might work for you.

Rosie Garin: And I don't want to fly by something that you've been pointing out throughout this episode, which is that Aquaphor or petroleum jelly is not a moisturizer.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah. Aquaphor isn't pure petroleum jelly. It has some other ingredients, but those skin protectants they're called. Yeah. They don't moisturize inherently. They lock in the moisture like we said.

Kyra Blackwell: So, oh my gosh. I've been just putting Aquaphor on my daughter's body after like bath time and thinking that that is the moisture that she needs, the moisturizer that she needs.

Jen Sullivan: She might have water in her skin from that bath and she has her own like skin has oil glands. It has its own lipid barrier and layer. Like there's moisturizers in our skin naturally. Natural moisturizing factors they're called. So you are locking in something. But I think for a lot of people if they're still dry and they keep slathering on, you know, an Aquaphor. Yeah.

Kyra Blackwell: Just let your baby be ashy.

Jen Sullivan: No. Then moisturize her first.

Kyra Blackwell: Now we know.

Jen Sullivan: Slip that into my back pocket.

Rosie Garin: Can we talk order of operations?

Jen Sullivan: We spoke about getting out of the shower, getting out of the tub, whatever. damp skin and then a moisturizer. But what are the options in terms of a routine and what order is recommended?

Jen Sullivan: The basic way to think about it is thinnest to thickest. Thin products first, treatment products first. If you use a retinol, that would be like lower down earlier in the process. Then your thicker products like a moisturizer. And then at the end, if maybe if you wanted the oil, that's thicker than a moisturizer like a lotion. And then the last one's always sunscreen. But again, I don't know how many pe I mean, I use like two things a day, so I don't know how many. I think this gets more complicated the more.

Rosie Garin: And do you follow that from thinnest to thickest? Yeah, that's I think people are worried like

Jen Sullivan: Fantastic skin.

Rosie Garin: Thank you. I work hard at it. I think people get worried like, oh, if I do it in the wrong order, it's going to negate the effects of the other one. That's not really a thing. I wouldn't worry about that. It's more for uh comfort of skin and to make sure that they don't peel, which is when they get that little gummy like rubber cement balls. I think of it in my head.

Kyra Blackwell: I don't like that.

Jen Sullivan: Yeah, nobody likes that. So, if that's happening, you want to like slow down as well. Like you put something on, let it fully absorb and wait to put on the next.

Rosie Garin: That was going to be my other question. There's not like a standard amount of time. You just got to let it absorb.

Jen Sullivan: It's not really standard. Like I've heard like, oh, wait a minute between every product. I don't have I don't have that time. I'm not sitting in front of a mirror for 60 full seconds. Do you know how long 60 seconds is? No. So, I think it's only if you're having that pilling issue. And again, even waiting might sometimes not fix that issue. And if you wear makeup, that might throw a wrench in things. So, you might want to play around with that. But generally, if you wait, you'll be less likely to have that pilling effect. But other than that, you don't necessarily have to wait a long time between these steps. I don't know if this is a fair question, but does makeup often come after this moisturizing routine?

Jen Sullivan: For most people, I would say they're putting they're doing their skincare routine or moisturizing because moisturizer makes a nice base for like something like a foundation. We just came out with our foundation guide um and we had everybody test them after they did their their regular skincare routine, whatever that meant to them. So, yes, it would come afterwards.

Kyra Blackwell: Got it. Okay.

Kyra Blackwell: So, Jen, what if you are using the right moisturizer for your skin supposedly, but you just you feel like you're just not hydrated enough? What are some other things that you could do?

Jen Sullivan: This is a great question because I think we often just reach for a product to fix whatever's going on with us. But like eating good fats, making sure you're hydrated, that will help with it. Taking a slightly cooler shower. I'm not tell telling anyone. Yeah. Okay. That might help. But these environmental factors, adding a humidifier at night, like if the air around you is dry, more moist air, a humidifier could really help as well.

Kyra Blackwell: Okay, let's do a little myth busting. True or false? You should switch up your moisturizer based on the season.

Jen Sullivan: I'm going to go with depends on you and your skin. Some people might not need to do that.

Kyra Blackwell: Um, I tend to find a thicker moisturizer in the winter because my skin gets drier, but it's all depending on your preferences and your skin type.

Kyra Blackwell: Got it. All right. True or false? You should buy a separate eye cream because facial moisturizer doesn't do enough to firm up that area on its own.

Jen Sullivan: One quick clarification, firm up isn't something that a moisturizer does. It moisturizes, it hydrates. It's not necessarily like making skin feel firmer and tighter.

Kyra Blackwell: What is an eye cream doing?

Jen Sullivan: An eye cream. So, if your moisturizer can go around your eyes, say you have dryness around your eyes, and you can get your moisturizer up there without any sort of irritation, you might not need an eye cream. Some people can't. They need a gentler formula. But a lot of the eye creams, and we're actually working on testing eye creams and treatments right now, a lot of them are for specific concerns, like I have a little bit of fine lines and texture. I have a darker under eye circle. I have puffiness. I have saggginess. Those are the things that you're going to need. Actives I talked about earlier, like it's your moisturizer, but with a little extra something in to address that need. And one of those needs could be hydration. Like, I need extra moisture in my eye area. Then maybe yeah, you would need an eye cream.

Kyra Blackwell: True or false? You cannot over moisturize your skin.

Jen Sullivan: I mean, you can't drown your skin, but I would say false because if you're putting on too much moisturizer and you're feeling greasy or you see your skin is uh breaking out, maybe you've caused like some clogged pores there and you're getting some acne type bumps, you might be over moisturizing. So, that could be possible.

Kyra Blackwell: All right. True or false? If it tingles when you apply it to your skin, that's how you know it's working.

Jen Sullivan: I'm going to say I'm going to say false because I think people think it does nothing unless they can feel it doing something. And in some cases, it's fine to have the tingle, but in many cases, the tingle is a sign that you are irritating your skin. That's what that tingle is. So, it might actually be a bad thing. Keep an eye on the tingle. I'm not going to let you ask this last question, uh, Kyra, because I already know the answer to it from carefully listening to Jen throughout this episode. And the question was going to be true or false. Aquaphor is the best moisturizer. Not only is it not the best moisturizer, it's not a moisturizer at all.

Rosie Garin: Moisturizer.

Kyra Blackwell: We all learned something.

Jen Sullivan: We all learned something here today.

Kyra Blackwell: Okay. So, we've gotten to our last question. Jen, before we wrap, we always ask our guests one final question, which is, what's the last thing you've bought that you've really loved? Does not have to be a Wirecutter pick.

Jen Sullivan: It's actually these shoes I'm wearing right now. This is the part of the show where I'm just going to complain about my feet hurt. My feet hurt. all the time.

Rosie Garin: Get it?

Jen Sullivan: And so in the summer, I'm a Birkenstock person, but you can't wear Birkenstocks in the winter. And I also like FitFlops. FitFlops.

Kyra Blackwell: FitFlops.

Rosie Garin: What is a FitFlop?

Jen Sullivan: A FitFlop is a brand name for this like orthopedic looking kind of sandal. This is a FitFlop. So it has the FitFlop base on under my foot, so it's real comfortable, but then it looks like

Kyra Blackwell: A Doc It looks like a Doc Martens. It looks like a Doc, which is another shoe that like they Doc Martens are heavy, though. This is ridiculous. I'm getting my shoe off right now. Feel this thing. for how big and chunky this looks.

Rosie Garin: It is like a two-tiered soul

Jen Sullivan: And it's really light. It's really It's like light as a croc.

Kyra Blackwell: So, FitFlops also if you have Yeah. feet that are always in pain, try them.

Rosie Garin: So, what's the model?

Jen Sullivan: The model of this FitFlop is the F-Mode Leather Platform Chelsea Boot. So, it looks like a Chelsea boot with a chunky platform sole and this FitFlop base. It's going to give you some height, too.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah,

Rosie Garin: I love that.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah, I love that for you. I love that for you, Jen. Thank you so much for joining us. was very illuminating for me personally, but I hope will be helpful for our listeners, too. Thanks so much.

Jen Sullivan: Thank you.

Rosie Garin: Kyra, what did you learn today at school?

Kyra Blackwell: Oh my gosh. Well, I've learned that I don't have to be soaking wet to put on my moisturizer.

Rosie Garin: No, you don't, my friend.

Kyra Blackwell: I I've been struggling. I really have. I track water all through my house cuz I got to put on my moisturizer before I dry out.

Rosie Garin: Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm going to firmly towel off before I start my entire skincare routine and I feel freer for that. It's a game changer for you, buddy.

Kyra Blackwell: Huge. What about you?

Rosie Garin: For me, I think when picking a moisturizer, you want to look for hydrating ingredients. You want to look for things like humectants, which attract moisture, so like glycerin, hyaluronic acid. You want to look for occlusives that lock in moisturizer. So, that might be plant oils and ceramides. And then you also want to look for emollient and those are going to soften skin like squalane. So that was a big learn and a big takeaway for me. The other that's sort of turning things upside down for me is that occlusives are not moisturizers.

Kyra Blackwell: That one's going to haunt you. Huh.

Rosie Garin: And said in a different way, Aquaphor is not a moisturizer. Vaseline is not a moisturizer.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah. Now you know. If you want to find out more about Wirecutter's coverage, if you want to check out our guides for facial moisturizer, body lotion, or any of Jen or Jen's team's reporting, head to our website or you can find a link in the show notes. All right, thanks so much for listening. Bye bye.

Rosie Garin: I like to pat down instead of like a like a full like a rub towel down and then I'm damp.

Kyra Blackwell: Yes. And then the moisturizer goes on.

Rosie Garin: Well, not that anybody