2025年政治格局回顾:关税冲击、加拿大政坛变迁与战地记者心路 TVO Today 2025-12-10

2025年政治格局:回顾与展望

这一年即将结束,令人难以置信,而这确实是不同寻常的一年。

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It's hard to believe the year is almost over and what a year it's been.

感觉我们经历了足以填满十年的新闻,以及边境以南的如此多的选举和挑战。

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Feels like we've had enough news to fill a decade and live through so many elections and so many challenges from south of the border.

那么,哪些事件脱颖而出?2025年的哪些事件最终产生了最大的影响?

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So what stands out? What events from 2025 ended up having the most impact?

我们将回顾过去的一年,以及在全国和安大略省塑造它的政治发展。

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We take a look at the year that was and the political developments that shaped it nationally and right here in Ontario.

许多人认为战地记者(Foreign Correspondent: 报道国际冲突、灾难等事件的记者)的生活非常光鲜亮丽。

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Then many think the life of a foreign correspondent is pretty glamorous.

当然,它可能充满冒险,但也可能带来巨大的代价。

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And sure, it can be full of adventure, but it can also take a major toll.

报道冲突和见证人类苦难是怎样一种体验?

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What is it like reporting on conflicts and bearing witness to human suffering?

这是《The Rundown》节目。

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This is The Rundown.

今年,安大略省和全国的政治领域发生了许多事情。

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A lot has happened this year politically in Ontario and across the country.

仅仅列出这个省份的主要事件,可能就需要我们再花一整年的时间。

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Listing the major events just here in this province could take us a whole other year.

所以,让我们抛开喧嚣,关注一些亮点和低谷。

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So let's cut through the noise and focus on some highlights and lowlights.

我与《多伦多星报》渥太华分社社长兼高级记者Tonda Morales,以及TVO Today专栏作家兼OnPoli播客联合主持人John Michael McGrath坐下来,讨论了2025年最重要的时刻。

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I sat down with Tonda Morales, bureau chief and senior reporter in the Toronto Star's Ottawa bureau, and John Michael McGrath, TVO Today columnist and co-host of the OnPoli podcast, to talk about the biggest moments of 2025.

Tonda,John Michael McGrath,欢迎来到节目。

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Tonda, John Michael McGrath, welcome to the program.

很高兴你们能来。

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Great. You guys can be here.

我先从你开始。什么事件对今年政治格局(Political Landscape: 政治力量、趋势和关系的总体状况)的进程产生了更大的影响?是贾斯汀·特鲁多(Justin Trudeau)的辞职,还是特朗普(Donald Trump)的关税声明?

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I'm going to start with you. What event had a bigger impact on the course of this year's political landscape? Is it Justin Trudeau's resignation or Trump's announcement on tariffs?

Tonda: 我认为,是特朗普的关税(Tariffs: 政府对进口商品征收的税费)声明。

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>> Well, I think Trump's announcement on tariffs.

但在某种程度上,那是贾斯汀·特鲁多辞职的背景,因为它也是克里斯蒂亚·弗里兰(Chrystia Freeland)辞职的背景。

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But in a way that was the backdrop for Justin Trudeau's resignation, because it was also the backdrop for when Chrystia Freeland resigned.

你还记得她说自由党没有计划应对即将到来的关税。

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You recall saying that the liberals didn't have a plan to deal with the coming tariffs.

但特朗普的关税已经影响了全球。

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But Trump's tariffs have affected globally.

它颠覆了全球贸易、经济、安全、安全讨论,一切。

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Everybody upended global trade economics, security, security discussions, everything.

这是世界合作方式的剧变(Seismic Change: 像地震一样剧烈而深远的变化)。

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It's it's it is a seismic change in the way the the world is working together.

所以,我认为作为单一事件,就是这个。

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So I mean as one single event that's it.

但作为加拿大政治日程中的一个重大政治事件,贾斯汀·特鲁多的辞职是巨大的。

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But as a big political event in the Canadian calendar, Justin Trudeau's resignation was huge.

特鲁多辞职与卡尼的崛起

JMM,同样的问题问你。回顾过去很难,已经12个月了。

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>> JMM, same question to you. It's hard to look back. It's been 12 months. But yeah.

John Michael McGrath: 我的意思是,如果我有一台时间机器,可以重演过去的一年,这是我最想看到答案的问题,那就是,如果贾斯汀·特鲁多继续担任总理(Prime Minister: 政府首脑),并在特朗普关税的背景下竞选连任,这显然对马克·卡尼(Mark Carney)的联邦竞选(Federal Campaign: 国家层面的选举活动)产生了如此大的影响,关于“肘部向上”以及所有围绕保护加拿大就业和保护加拿大经济的信息。

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>> I mean, if I had a time machine and I could rerun this past year, this is the question I most want to see answered, which is, you know, if Justin Trudeau had stayed on as prime minister and could run for re-election in the context of the Trump tariffs, which obviously played so heavily into Mark Carney's federal campaign about, you know, elbows up and all of the messaging around protecting Canadian jobs and protecting the Canadian economy.

你知道,贾斯汀·特鲁多今天还能是总理吗?我持怀疑态度,但这真是一个引人入胜的历史问题,我很想知道。

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You know, could Justin Trudeau still be prime minister today? I I'm sceptical, but it's just such a fascinating historical question that I would love to know.

像Tonda一样,我认为你不得不说,从全球范围来看,唐纳德·特朗普的总统任期是一个更大的问题。

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Like Tonda, I think you have to say that just globally speaking, Donald Trump's presidency has been the bigger, bigger issue.

甚至在加拿大政治的背景下也是如此。

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And in the even in the context of Canadian politics.

显然,我可以更多地谈谈它对安大略省的影响。

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And obviously, I could talk a bit more about the effect it's had in Ontario.

关税确实影响巨大。

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The tariffs really have just been so huge.

主持人: 我想接着你说的,贾斯汀·特鲁多的辞职。为什么这对我们这里如此重要?

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>> I want to pick up on what you said, Justin Trudeau's resignation. Why was it so big for us here?

Tonda: 因为直到他做出决定前几天,他才辞职,那是在1月6日。

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>> Because right up until a couple of days before he made the decision, he resigned on January 6th.

也许人们会记得。

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Maybe people will recall.

但直到最后,他都试图坚持下去。

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But right up until the very end, he tried to tough it out.

在弗里兰辞职之后,他的财政部长(Finance Minister: 负责国家财政政策的政府官员)在预算日或财政经济更新日辞职。

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After Freeland's resignation, the resignation of his finance minister on a budget day or a fiscal economic update day.

这是大事。

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Big deal.

他整个圣诞假期都在与顾问们开会,并与党团会议(Caucus: 政党内部成员的会议)交流。

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And spent the whole of Christmas holidays huddling with advisors and talking to caucus.

所以,当他决定退出时,一切都变得不确定了。

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And so really, when he took the decision to get out, it put everything in play.

这让马克·卡尼进入了加拿大政坛。

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It brought in Mark Carney into Canadian politics.

它突然挑战了保守党(Conservatives: 加拿大主要政党之一)去应对一位新的自由党(Liberals: 加拿大主要政党之一)领导人,这位领导人试图为已经执政十年的自由党树立新的品牌和形象。

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It suddenly challenged the conservatives to deal with a new Liberal leader who was putting attempting to put a new brand and face on the Liberal Party, which had had a decade in power.

而且,你知道,这确实挑战了保守党在上次竞选中面对这一现实。

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And, you know, it really challenged the conservatives in the last campaign to confront that reality.

皮埃尔·普瓦利耶夫(Pierre Poilievre)继续针对贾斯汀·特鲁多进行竞选,可以说他有时仍然如此。

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Mr. Poilievre continued to campaign against Justin Trudeau, and arguably some days he still does.

在整个竞选期间,许多人觉得他从未像自由党通过选择马克·卡尼作为领导人那样,成功地转向应对美国的威胁。

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Throughout that campaign, and many felt that he never did make the pivot to deal with the American threat the way the liberals did via the selection of Mark Carney as their leader.

福特省长的竞选策略与关税冲击

主持人: John Michael,我们来谈谈省级政治(Provincial Politics: 加拿大各省层面的政治事务),加拿大队长,我知道我们在这里谈论的是省级政治。

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>> John Mikal, let's talk provincial politics, captain Canada I know that's what we were talking provincial politics here.

我这里没有任何道具或帽子上写着“加拿大待售”。

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I don't have any props or any hats that say Canada's for sale here.

John Michael McGrath: 但是有带手指的泡沫手套。

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>> But foam glove with the finger.

主持人: 完全正确。但是这个昵称对道格·福特(Doug Ford)在他的竞选期间有什么影响?

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>> Exactly. But what effect did that nickname have on Doug Ford during his campaign?

John Michael McGrath: 嗯,你知道,Tonda提到了皮埃尔·普瓦利耶夫(Pierre Poilievre)无法或不愿转向以反映不断变化的政治环境。

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>> Well, you know, Tonda mentioned the inability or unwillingness by Pierre Poilievre to pivot to reflect the changing political circumstances.

而且,你知道,作为一名专栏作家,有时你会犯错。

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And, you know, as a columnist, sometimes you get things wrong.

有时你会做出无法实现的预测。

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Sometimes you make predictions that don't pan out.

如果允许我进行一次非常小的胜利庆祝,我相当早就预测,唐纳德·特朗普赢得选举的那一刻,道格·福特将有理由提前举行安大略省选举。

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And if I can be allowed a very small victory lap, I was pretty early on in calling that the moment Donald Trump won the election, that Doug Ford would have grounds to call an early Ontario election.

当然,在此之前几个月,就一直有关于提前选举的猜测。

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Of course, there had been speculation that there would be an early election for months before that.

最大的问题是,你知道,提前选举的借口会是什么?

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And the big question was, you know, what would the what would the excuse for an early election be?

而当特朗普的选举结果最终确定,并且我们知道关税即将到来时。

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And the moment Trump's election was was final. And, you know, we knew that tariffs were coming.

对我来说很清楚,这将成为新选举的理由。

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It was clear to me that we would be that was going to be the grounds for a new election.

果然,就是这样。

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And and sure enough, that's what it was.

你知道,关税对加拿大政策制定者(Policymakers: 负责制定和实施政策的人员或机构)造成的巨大转变,无论怎么强调都不过分。

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You know, it really cannot overstate what a seismic shift the tariffs are to Canadian policymakers.

我们真的花了一代人的时间,只是假设美国市场将永远以最优惠的条件对我们开放。

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We really have spent a generation just assuming that the American market would always be open to us under the most favourable terms.

自1月20日以来的变化,也许不应该像它那样让政策制定者感到惊讶。

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And the change since January 20th, perhaps it should not have taken policymakers by surprise the way it did.

我认为有很多一厢情愿的想法,认为特朗普在谈论对所有人都征收关税时,某种程度上并不真的指我们,但他确实指了。

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I think there was a lot of sort of wishful thinking that somehow Trump didn't really mean us when he talked about tariffs on everybody, but he did.

他既指我们,也指其他人。

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He meant us as well as everybody else.

自那以后的一切都只是一种调整形式,这也是道格·福特在竞选期间如此成功的部分原因,他实际上是抛开了几乎所有其他话题,只谈论保护安大略省经济和保护安大略省的就业。

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He meant us as well as everybody else. And everything since then has just been a form of adjusting, and that has been part of what worked so well for Doug Ford in that election campaign was really, you know, pivoting away from, frankly, almost anything except talking about protecting the Ontario economy and protecting Ontario jobs.

主持人: 好的,Tonda。

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>> All right, Tom.

Tonda: 所以我只想说,他还通过一种发自内心的情感方式(Visceral, Emotional Way: 触及内心深处、强烈情感驱动的方式)抓住了时机。

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>> So I would just say he also did so by seizing the moment in a visceral, emotional way.

他以一种情感上的防御者的姿态吸引了安大略省的选民,而马克·卡尼和皮埃尔·普瓦利耶夫坦率地说,都没有做到,或者仍然无法捕捉到加拿大人在特朗普威胁将加拿大变为“第51个州”(51st State: 指加拿大被美国吞并或失去主权)面前的反应,以及加拿大人采取的防御姿态(Defensive Posture: 采取防守、保护的姿态),例如停止为了娱乐目的前往美国,停止购买美国制造的产品,转而支持“购买加拿大产品”。

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He appealed to Ontario voters as a defender on an emotional level in a way that neither, frankly, Mark Carney nor Pierre Poilievre did or still are able to capture, sort of the, the, the, the reactions of Canadians in the face of the Trump threats of 51st state and the defensive posture that Canadians adopted to, you know, stop travelling to the US for pleasure and stop buying American made products and go for Buy Canadian.

我的意思是,我认为道格·福特表达了这种情绪,甚至包括后来激怒唐纳德·特朗普,导致他停止与这个国家进行贸易谈判(Trade Negotiations: 国家间就贸易协议进行的讨论)的广告。

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I mean, that was Doug Ford, I think gave voice to that even with the ad that later so angered Donald Trump into ceasing trade negotiations with this country.

道格·福特的政府,道格·福特本人,在情感和某种程度上在理智层面都抓住了反关税的论点,并将其反击给美国人。

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Doug Ford's government, Doug Ford himself, captured both on an emotional level and in a way, on an intellectual level, the anti-tariff argument and put it back in the face of Americans.

还记得当他威胁要切断安大略省的电力出口时,他们有多生气吗?

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Remember how mad they got when he threatened to cut off electricity? Ontario electric electrical exports?

所以我认为那是他成功的一些秘诀。

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So I think that was the secret of some of his success.

而且,让我们面对现实,自从马克·卡尼担任总理以来,他非常乐意让道格·福特扮演这个角色。

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And let's face it, ever since he's been Prime Minister, Mark Carney is quite happy to have Doug Ford play that role.

福特与卡尼的关系:好警察/坏警察策略

主持人: 好的,我们继续这个话题,Tonda。我们把这两个人放在一个房间里。我们有省长(Premier: 加拿大各省的政府首脑)道格·福特,总理(Prime Minister: 加拿大联邦政府首脑)马克·卡尼。你如何看待他们的关系?

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>> Well, let's stick with that, Tom. Let's throw these two in a room together. We've got Premier Doug Ford, Prime Minister Mark Carney. What do you make of their relationship?

Tonda: 我的意思是,他们关系很好。毫无疑问。

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>> I mean, they've got a good relationship. There's no question there is.

围绕那个广告曾有过一些紧张,因为加拿大联邦政府方面非常清楚,这激怒了特朗普,激怒了美国驻加大使,也激怒了美国的一些共和党人。

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There was a source of tension around the ad because the Canadians on the federal side were acutely aware that it was angering Trump and angering the US ambassador here and angering some of the Republicans in the US.

但我认为除了那种紧张之外,总的来说,这两个人相处得很好。

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But I think that aside from that tension, by and large, these two get along.

几乎没有一项联邦政策出台,道格·福特不会公开出来捍卫。

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There's barely a federal policy that comes out that Doug Ford doesn't come out in public and defend.

你知道,他支持马克·卡尼的重大项目。

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You know, he has backed Mark Carney on major projects.

他基本上支持马克·卡尼在关税问题上的做法。

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He has backed Mark Carney largely on his approach to tariffs.

当马克·卡尼撤销加拿大对美国的反关税(Counter-tariffs: 针对他国关税而征收的报复性关税),并撤销数字服务税,以争取特朗普时,福特每一步都与他同行,赞扬他的努力。

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When Mark Carney rolled back Canada's counter-tariffs on the US and rolled back the digital services tax in an effort to, you know, woo Trump, Ford was with him every step of the way praising his efforts.

而且,你看,他们确实关系很好。他们经常交谈。

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And look, they do have a good relationship. They talk frequently.

我认为这,你知道,对他们俩来说都是一种成功。

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And I think that's, you know, a bit of a success for both of them.

你知道,好警察/坏警察的策略对他们很有效。

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You know, the good cop/bad cop playbook is working for them.

主持人: 我也想接着这个话题。我应该提到,福特省长说卡尼知道那个广告,据称,Tonda提到了这其中有多少是好警察/坏警察的策略。

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>> Well, I want to pick up on that as well. I should mention that Premier Ford said that Carney knew about the ad, allegedly, that Tonya had mentioned how much of this is a good cop/bad cop strategy here.

John Michael McGrath: 我不确定这其中有多少是预谋的(Premeditated: 预先计划或考虑的),以他们有意识地扮演这些角色的想法来看,但他们似乎至少是自发地达成了这种游戏,即福特采取一种更具对抗性(Antagonistic: 敌对的,对抗的)、更具侵略性的立场,然后卡尼可以扮演相对更和解的(Conciliatory: 旨在平息冲突或和解的)角色。

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>> I'm not sure how much of it is premeditated in that sense, of the idea of them playing those those roles consciously, but they seem to have, at the very least, organically. They have arrived at this game where, you know, Ford stakes out a bit more of an antagonistic, aggressive position, and then Carney can be the relatively more conciliatory one.

你知道,公平地说,这个策略并没有完美奏效。

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You know, it's fair to say that this act has not worked perfectly right.

比如我们现在还没有和美国人达成协议,我也不知道有谁会自信地说协议近在眼前。

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Like we don't have a deal with the Americans right now, and I don't know of anybody who would confidently say that there is a deal within sight.

但显然,我不会把所有责任都归咎于加拿大政策制定者。

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But obviously I don't place all of the blame for that on Canadian policymakers.

主要参与者是唐纳德·特朗普和他的政府拒绝达成协议。

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The primary actor here is Donald Trump and his administration's refusal to to make a deal.

你知道,我想说的另一点是,我认为福特一直非常非常积极,这可能让人们感到惊讶,也许不总是熟悉这一点,你知道,省级层面有多少施压点(Pressure Points: 可以施加影响或压力的关键领域)可以进行国际政治行动。

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You know, the other point I would make is that I think Ford has been very, very active in a way that I think might have surprised people, maybe not not always familiar with this, you know, just how many levers there are at the provincial level to make international political moves.

对吧。

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Right.

你知道,Tonda提到了威胁切断电力出口,安大略省可以这样做,因为安大略省拥有大部分自己的电力系统,而且它当然也监管这里的电力销售。

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You know, Todd to mentioned threatening electricity exports, which Ontario can do because Ontario owns most of its own electricity system and it certainly regulates electricity sales here.

对吧。

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Right.

比如从LCBO(Liquor Control Board of Ontario: 安大略省酒类管制局,负责该省酒类销售的政府机构)货架上撤下美国酒,因为安大略省有一个省级运营的酒类专卖(Liquor Monopoly: 政府对酒类销售拥有独家控制权)机构。

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Things like pulling American liquor out of the LCBO shelves because Ontario has a provincially run liquor monopoly.

你知道,当省政府想向美国人表明立场时,所有这些施压点都可以利用。

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You know, there are all of these pressure points that the provincial government can, can, can push on when it wants to make a point to Americans,

你知道,就像肯塔基州的两名参议员都非常明确地表示,美国的关税正在损害肯塔基州的波旁威士忌出口商,因为安大略省的LCBO是世界上最大的单一酒类买家之一。

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you know, and like the fact that both of Kentucky's senators have been very vocal about how American tariffs are hurting Kentucky bourbon exporters, because Ontario is the LCBO is one of the single largest liquor buyers in the world.

目前,你无法在安大略省销售肯塔基波旁威士忌。

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And at the moment, you can't sell Kentucky bourbon here in Ontario.

国家建设与清洁能源:达灵顿小型模块化反应堆

主持人: 我想继续谈能源,但我想谈谈国家建设项目。

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>> I want to stick on energy, but I want to talk nation building projects.

达灵顿小型模块化反应堆(Small Modular Reactor, SMR: 一种紧凑型核反应堆,旨在比传统核电站更快、更经济地建造)是一个正在快速推进的项目。

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The Darlington Small Modular Reactor is a project that's on the fast track list.

它就在奥沙瓦以东。意义重大。请解释一下。

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This is just east of Oshawa. Significant. Explain.

John Michael McGrath: 所以这是一个已经进行了很长时间的项目。

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>> So this has been a project that has been underway for actually a very long time.

如果你追溯到安大略省电力公司(OPG)最早的化身,OPG早在麦金蒂政府时期就首次申请了达灵顿场地的环境评估(Environmental Assessment: 对拟议项目潜在环境影响的评估)。

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If you want to go back to the earliest incarnation of Ontario's power company, OPG first applied for an environmental assessment at the Darlington site back under the McGuinty government.

他们获得了那项评估。

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And they got that assessment.

即使在那一代核能提案被废弃之后,OPG明智地保持了环境评估的有效性。

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And even after that generation of nuclear proposal was scrapped, OPG wisely kept the environmental assessment alive.

在过去十年中,随着小型模块化反应堆(顾名思义,这些通常是更小的核反应堆,希望能够更快、更便宜地建造)的想法成为核政策中的热门话题。

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And in the last decade, as as the idea of small modular reactors, these are generally smaller, as the name implies, smaller nuclear reactors that the hope is will be faster and cheaper to build, as that has become sort of the the hot topic in nuclear policy.

安大略省能够与全球公司合作,说:“嘿,我们有这个准备好的场地,有现有的环境批准,我们可以立即开始建设。”

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Ontario was able to go to global companies and say, hey, we've got this site ready to go, ready to build with an existing environmental approval. We can just get going.

现在,马克·卡尼将达灵顿SMR场地列入重大项目清单的意义,对我来说并不完全清楚,因为正如我之前所说,它已经获得了所有联邦批准。

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Now. The significance of Mark Carney putting the Darlington SMR site on the the major projects list. It's not entirely clear to me because as I sort of already said, it already has all of its federal approvals.

现在,联邦政府可以做其他事情来支持它,比如提供资金,他们也已经承诺了。

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Now, there are other things that the federal government can do to support it, like make money available, which they've promised.

但我认为我们现在看到的省政府和联邦政府在核电问题上的和谐,可能预示着未来的发展,因为安大略省不会止步于达灵顿场地。

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But I think the harmony that we're now seeing between the provincial and the federal government on nuclear power is probably a foreshadowing of things to come, because the Ontario is not stopping with the Darlington site.

他们今年年初,省政府宣布了一座他们想在霍普港建造的巨型新核电站,就在达灵顿以东一点。

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They this year began with the provincial government announcing a massive new nuclear station that they want to build in port Hope, just a bit further east of Darlington.

这只是他们正在讨论的几个地点之一。

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And that is only one of several locations they're talking about.

所以,今年一个“沉睡的故事”,可以说,就是安大略省更加热情地投入到核电中。

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So one of the sleeper stories this year, so to speak, has been Ontario really going even more enthusiastically into nuclear power.

他们将需要联邦政府的帮助来执行这项计划。

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And they will need federal help to to execute that.

主持人: 我想接着说。

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>> I want to pick up on I think.

Tonda: 是的,我想说的是,我认为我们看到像这样的项目,你说的没错,它已经有很多批准到位,这与其说是联邦政府能为这个特定项目做什么,不如说是在早期,当马克·卡尼将第一批项目列入潜在的国家建设名单时,这更像是向全国发出的一个更大信号,即重大项目和快速审批的重点将放在矿山、关键矿产(Critical Minerals: 对经济和国家安全至关重要的稀有矿产)、能源、清洁能源(Clean Energy: 生产过程中不产生或极少产生污染的能源)以及其他相关的贸易促进基础设施(Infrastructure: 支持经济和社会运行的基础设施,如道路、桥梁、港口等)上,比如港口和铁路,比如丘吉尔港、蒙特利尔港。

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>> Yeah, I think I was just going to say that the I think the reason we see a project like that, which you're right, had so many approvals already in place, is less about, you know, what the federal government can actually do for that one particular project. But in the early days when this whole list, the first phase of projects that Mark Carney put on the on the table for potential designation as nation building, I think this was part of a greater signal to the country that the emphasis for major projects and fast tracked approvals is going to be on mines, critical minerals, energy, clean energy and other related trade boosting infrastructure like ports and rail and say the Port of Churchill, the Port of Montreal.

这些,你知道,它们处于不同的阶段。

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These are, you know, they're in different phases.

第一阶段,第二阶段。

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Phase one, phase two.

但到目前为止,它们都没有真正获得“国家利益”的称号,也没有被快速审批。

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But none of them have actually so far gotten the title of nation in the national interest or been fast tracked.

但这是一个非常明确的市场信号。

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But there was a very clear signal to markets.

你看,你没有看到名单上把“为每个加拿大人提供家庭医生”列为国家建设项目,你也没有看到把全民药保(Pharmacare: 政府资助的药品保险计划)列为国家建设项目。

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Look, you didn't see on that list a family doctor for every Canadian as a nation building project, you didn't see Pharmacare as a nation building project.

你没有看到。

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You don't see.

这也很有趣。他们把安大略省的高速铁路等项目也列了进去。

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It was also interesting. They put on things like high speed rail for Ontario.

对吧。

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Right.

所以这也是一个项目,支持者们说我们已经看到了好处,即使我们还没有进入快速审批流程。

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So that is also a project that the proponents are saying we're already seeing benefits, even if we haven't been put into the process for fast track approvals yet.

他们已经看到了说服投资者向项目投入资金的好处。

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They are already seeing the benefit of going out to persuade investors to pour capital into the project.

他们说:“看,这是真的。”

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They're saying, look, this is a real thing.

所以我认为这是卡尼所做工作的重要部分。

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So I think that was a large part of what Carney is doing.

他对优先事项有非常清晰的愿景。

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He's got a very clear vision for what he wants to get priority.

这一切都围绕着贸易、经济和潜在的清洁能源。

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And it's all around trade, economy and potentially clean energy.

尽管它可能不会。

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Although it might not.

我想,这听起来不像那样,因为现在我们也在谈论管道。

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It doesn't sound like that, I suppose, because now we're also talking about pipelines.

合作联邦制与脱碳之路

主持人: 好的,我们接着谈谈。卡尼最近与艾伯塔省签署了谅解备忘录(Memorandum of Understanding: 双方在合作前达成的非约束性协议),他将自己的方法解释为合作联邦制(Cooperative Federalism: 联邦政府与地方政府在政策制定和实施上合作的模式)。

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>> Well, let's let's follow up on that. Carney most recently signed the memorandum of understanding with Alberta, and he explained his his approach as cooperative federalism.

我很好奇这种方法对其他省份会有多大的好处。

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And I'm curious to know how much of that approach would will bode well for other provinces.

John Michael McGrath: 我的意思是,这表明他正在努力尊重围绕权力划分(Division of Powers: 联邦政府和地方政府之间权力分配的宪法原则)的宪法原则(Constitutional Principle: 宪法中确立的基本规则或指导方针),他希望在各省的管辖范围内与它们合作。

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>> I mean, that's a signal that he's trying to honour a constitutional principle around the division of powers, and he wants to engage provinces on their areas of jurisdiction.

这有点像一个老生常谈。

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It's a bit of a it's a bit of a cliche in a way.

但他是在对那些已经认同的人布道。

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But he's he's preaching to the converted.

我的意思是,艾伯塔省希望在自己的管辖范围内运作。

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I mean, Alberta wants to operate in its own areas of jurisdiction.

然而,这确实表明,只要大家目标一致,卡尼愿意与各省达成协议。

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What it does, though, signal, is that Carney is willing to cut deals with provinces as long as everybody's aligned on the same goal.

例如,他与艾伯塔省协议的一部分是,如果他们批准一条管道,艾伯塔省将对其自身的排放者实行更严格的工业碳定价(Industrial Carbon Pricing: 对工业排放的二氧化碳征收费用)。

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So, for example, he part of the agreement with Alberta, if they were to ever approve a pipeline, would be tougher industrial carbon pricing on Alberta's part on their own emitters.

联邦政府将同意取消,例如,清洁电力法规(Clean Electricity Regulations: 旨在减少电力行业温室气体排放的政府规定),这些法规旨在使天然气发电厂越来越不成为常态,或者要求它们为排放付费。

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And the feds would agree to lift, for example, the Clean Electricity Regulations, which are sort of aimed at making natural gas powered plants sort of less and less the the norm and or requiring them to pay for emissions.

联邦政府准备取消这些。

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The feds are prepared to lift that.

道格·福特希望这样做。安大略省也希望这样做。

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Doug Ford wants that. Ontario wants that.

你知道,我认为你看到的是卡尼向各省发出的信号。

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You know, it's I think what you saw is Carney signalling to provinces.

然后向我展示,不是钱,而是你将如何脱碳(Decarbonise: 减少或消除碳排放)。

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Then show me not the money, but show me the way. You're going to decarbonise.

向我展示你将如何实现净零排放(Net Zero: 温室气体排放量与清除量相抵,达到平衡)。

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Show me the way you're going to get to net zero.

向我展示你将如何削减排放,我们就会达成这类协议。

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Show me how you're going to cut your emissions, and we'll cut these kinds of deals.

展望2026:安大略教育与联邦大选

主持人: 好的。我们最后一个问题,每人10秒钟。这是漫长的一年。鉴于发生的一切,明年我们可以期待什么?

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>> All right. I've got 10 seconds each for our last question here. It's been a long year. Given all that's happened, what can we expect next year?

John Michael McGrath: 就安大略省政治而言?我认为即将到来的一场大战是关于学校董事会(School Boards: 负责管理地方公立学校系统的机构)和民选受托人(Elected Trustees: 由选民选举产生的学校董事会成员)的命运。

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>> In terms of Ontario politics? I think the big fight that is coming is over the fate of school boards and elected trustees.

我们还不知道政府会怎么做,但这会是一场激烈而喧嚣的斗争。

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We don't know yet which way the government is going to go, but that will be a big, loud fight.

主持人: Tonda,你来做最后的总结?

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>> Tom, do you get the last word?

Tonda: 10秒钟:能源、政治和一场潜在的选举。

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>> 10 seconds: Energy, politics and a potential election.

再次,我很抱歉告诉你这个消息,但我们明年可能又会迎来一场联邦大选(Federal Election: 国家层面的选举)。

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Again, I hate to break the news to you, but we may be in another federal election campaign next year.

主持人: 又来了。好的,Tonda,非常感谢John Michael McGrath。总是很高兴。非常感谢。

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>> Here we go. All right, Tonda, really appreciate John Michael McGrath. Always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

战地记者的生涯与道德创伤

40多年前,布莱恩·斯图尔特(Brian Stewart)成为一名战地记者(Foreign Correspondent: 报道国际冲突、灾难等事件的记者)。

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More than 40 years ago, Brian Stewart became a foreign correspondent.

他报道了海湾战争(Gulf War: 1990-1991年以美国为首的联军与伊拉克之间的战争)。

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He reported on the Gulf War.

他让全世界认识到1984年的埃塞俄比亚饥荒(Ethiopian Famine: 1980年代中期在埃塞俄比亚发生的大规模饥荒)。

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He brought global awareness to the Ethiopian famine in 1984.

他采访了国家元首和受历史危机影响的普通民众。

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He interviewed heads of state and everyday people affected by historic crises.

这是我们关于他的新书《On the Ground: My Life as a Foreign Correspondent》的一部分对话,以及世界改变事件如何也改变了他。

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Here's part of our conversation about his new book, On the Ground: My Life as a Foreign Correspondent, and how world changing events changed him to.

布莱恩,非常感谢你邀请我们到你可爱的家里。你最近怎么样?

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Brian, thank you so much for having us in your lovely home. How are you doing?

Brian Stewart: 哦,很好。谢谢,很高兴能邀请你来。

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>> Oh, great. Thank you and my pleasure to have you here.

主持人: 好的。你报道了很多事情。埃塞俄比亚饥荒。你在萨尔瓦多。你在科威特、黎巴嫩,几乎报道了整个冷战。

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>> All right. You have covered a lot. Ethiopian famine. You were in El Salvador. You were in Kuwait, Lebanon, covering pretty much the entire Cold War.

我想作为一名记者,你一直在努力,看到了可能发生的最糟糕的事情。是什么让你坚持下去?

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I imagine as a journalist, you are pushing through, seeing some of the worst things possible. What kept you going?

Brian Stewart: 嗯,我认为这是职业的责任,作为一名记者,作为一名战地记者,这是我梦想的,并且知道这项工作涉及风险回报,有时是危险的。

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>> Well, I think it was the obligation of the craft, being a journalist, being a foreign correspondent, which is what I dreamt of, and knowing there was a risk reward involved in that work, that it was sometimes risky.

我没有意识到情感上的痛苦会有多大。

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I didn't realise just how much the emotional suffering could be.

我认为,当然,在1984年和85年报道埃塞俄比亚饥荒,常常持续数周甚至数月,确实给我们所有参与报道的人带来了巨大的压力。

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And I think certainly covering the Ethiopian famine in 1984 and 85 and for often weeks and months on end, it did really cause major strain on all of us who were involved in that coverage.

我们看到了我们甚至无法准备的事情。

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And we saw things we couldn't really have even prepared for.

我以为我可以为一切做准备。

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I thought I could prepare for everything.

当我1984年抵达埃塞俄比亚,该国北部遭受饥荒袭击时,那简直超乎想象。

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When I arrived in Ethiopia in 1984 and northern part of the country hit by famine, it was just beyond imagining.

那就像末日(Apocalypse: 世界末日或大灾难),一个核浩劫(Nuclear Holocaust: 核战争造成的毁灭性灾难)后的世界。

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It was like apocalypse, a world after a nuclear holocaust.

地平线上弥漫着尘埃云,街道上躺着尸体,我想我报道过。

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The dust clouds across the horizon, the bodies along the streets, as I think I reported.

饥荒沿着每条道路,在每个城镇的门口,成千上万的人。

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>> Famine is along each road and at the gates of every town by the hundreds of thousands.

农民们正在逃离记忆中最严重的干旱。

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Peasants are fleeing the worst drought in memory.

Brian Stewart: 让你坚持下去的是这种感觉,你知道,这被世界隐藏了。

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>> What kept you going was the feeling that, you know, this was hidden from the world.

我们之所以在那里,是因为我们与BBC一起争取到了签证。

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We were there because we fought our way in with the BBC to get visas.

我们是整个饥荒地区仅有的两支摄制组,我们需要警示世界。

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We were the only two crews in the whole famine area, and we needed to alert the world.

这就是我们坚持下去的原因。

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And that's what kept us going.

之后,其他事情也让我们坚持下去,比如希望饥荒结束的愿望,以及希望社会从饥荒中恢复的愿望。

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And afterwards other things kept us going, like a desire to see the famine ended and the desire to see that society recover from famine.

伯罕·沃尔杜的故事:希望与全球关注

主持人: 告诉我一个你仍然保持联系的特定人物,你在埃塞俄比亚遇到的人,人们在你的故事和报道中真正与之产生共鸣的人?

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>> Tell me about one particular person that is still someone that you keep in touch with, that you met in Ethiopia, that people really connect with in terms of your story and your coverage?

Brian Stewart: 是的。她的名字叫伯罕·沃尔杜(Birhan Woldu),我第一次见到她时,她三岁半。

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>> Yeah. Her name is Birhan Woldu, and I saw her first when she was three and a half years old.

我当时在一个食物分发中心(Feeding Centre: 在饥荒或灾难中提供食物的场所),就在一个最严重的饥荒营地外面,试图喂养那些正在死去或已经死去,或者以某种方式试图拯救他们的年轻母亲和父亲。

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I was at a feeding centre right outside, one of the worst famine camps, trying to feed these mothers and fathers with young children who were dying or already dead, or save them in some way or another.

我沿着队伍走着,看到这个女孩瘫倒在人行道上。

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I was going down a line of them, and I saw this girl slumped over and collapse on the pavement.

我不知道,她脸上有什么,或者只是那种濒临死亡的景象的近距离,让我叫来了一位护士,说:“护士,我们能救这个女孩吗?我们能做些什么吗?”

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I don't know, something about her face, or just something about the nearness of that appeared to me dying sequence that I called out to a nurse and said, nurse, can we possibly save this girl? Is there anything we can do?

护士跑上前,抱起她,跑进了那个单间医疗中心,我们跟着摄制组拍摄,捕捉到她脸上我们认为是生命最后挣扎的画面。

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The nurse runs forward, picks her up, runs inside the one room medical centre we follow with the crew rolling and capture on her face what we thought might be the last gasps of life.

那张脸,向外看着,在我看来,真的是埃塞俄比亚本身的象征,看着一个不健康的世界,乞求帮助,呼唤帮助。

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The face, looking outward seemed to me a symbol, really, of Ethiopia itself looking on a unhealthful world, begging for help kind of stuff, calling for help.

护士对我们说:“恐怕我们无能为力。她将在15分钟内死去。”

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And the nurse says to us, I'm afraid there's nothing we can do. She's going to die within 15 minutes.

这让我们所有人都感到非常沮丧。

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So it just devastated all of us.

我们走出房间,让她平静地死去。

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And we walked, went outside the room to let her die in peace.

我们后来被安排回来参加她的葬礼。

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We later were arranged to come back to see her burial.

那天下午我们出去做了其他饥荒报道。

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That afternoon we went out and did other famine stories.

那天下午回来报道伯罕·沃尔杜的葬礼,也许还做一篇关于她的故事。

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Come back that afternoon to cover the burial of Birhan Woldu and do a story maybe about that.

我们看到一群人抱着那个女孩。

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And we see this group of people holding the girl.

她就在他们的怀里,她还活着。

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She's there in her arms and she's alive.

我对护士说:“护士,我们今天似乎看到了一个奇迹,是吗?”

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And I say to a nurse, nurse, we seem to have seen a bit of a miracle today, did we?

她说:“是的。我们给她打了一针,她现在会活下来。她会活下来的。”

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And she said, yes. We stuck a needle in her, and she she will love now. She will survive.

我仍然记得那个时刻。

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And I still remember that.

所以我们后来做了一个关于她面孔和埃塞俄比亚象征意义的故事,看看她是否能活下来。

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So we later did a story on her face and the symbolic of Ethiopia and the story, seeing if she can survive.

也许埃塞俄比亚本身也能活下来。

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Maybe Ethiopia itself can survive later.

几个月后,拯救生命演唱会(Live Aid: 1985年为埃塞俄比亚饥荒筹款而举办的系列大型慈善音乐会)使用了她的照片,以及CBC拍摄的其他饥荒中病重儿童的照片。

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Live aid, months later uses an image of her face and the pictures CBC pictures of other desperately ill children in the famine and that caused such a pouring of grief and tears around the world.

在11亿观众面前。

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Before an audience of 1.1 billion people.

难以想象,据组织Live Aid的鲍勃·格尔多夫(Bob Geldof)说,那是整个演出中最大的捐赠时刻,他们播放了四次。

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I'm imaginable that it was the greatest, according to Bob Geldof, who arranged Live Aid was the biggest moment of giving that the whole show had, and they ran it for four times.

几年后,我回去为她制作了纪录片,因为她失踪了。

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I went back to documentaries around her years later because she'd been lost.

我们找到了她,为她制作了纪录片,她出现在第二次Live Aid中,并与麦当娜(Madonna)在舞台上跳舞。

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We found her, did documentaries on her, and she appeared in the second Live Aid and Dancing with Madonna on stage.

她是一个非常非常虔诚的基督徒女孩。

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She's very, very Christian girl.

当我们第一次说她将与麦当娜一起出现时,她说她很奇怪。

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And when we first said she was going to appear with Madonna, she said she was really weird.

我觉得那有点奇怪。

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I thought that was a bit weird.

总之,我们一起上了奥普拉(Oprah)节目。

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Anyways, we were on Oprah together.

长话短说,我邀请她来这里度假。

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Long story short, had her over here for a holiday.

我为她和她的家人安排了生活和教育。

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I arranged for her and her family, their living and her education and now we zoom back and forth our families.

现在我们两家人经常视频通话。

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now we zoom back and forth our families.

她在埃塞俄比亚北部最贫困的地区为残疾儿童设立了一个小型慈善机构(Charity: 旨在帮助他人或促进公共利益的非营利组织)。

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She has set up a a small charity in northern Ethiopia itself for disabled children in the very poorest of all areas.

她想留在那里帮助她的人民。

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She wants to stay there and help her people.

这些是我多年来保存的一些旧照片。

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These are some old pictures I kept through the years.

追溯到,你知道,童年时期的。

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Going back, you know, childhood ones.

但这些就是我在埃塞俄比亚饥荒队伍中遇到伯罕时的照片。

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But these are that's me along the line in Ethiopia of the famine line where I met Birhan.

主持人: 好的。她在这张照片里吗?

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>> Okay. Is she in this?

Brian Stewart: 她在这张照片里。就是她。这是那个场景。

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>> She is in this. This is her. This is the scene.

她瘫倒在水泥路面上。

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That's her slumping against the cement, this pavement.

那是她父亲为她悲伤。

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That's her father grieving over her.

那是护士冲进来抱起她。

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That's the nurse would just rushing in to pick her up this way.

四年后回去找她。

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Went back to find her four years later.

主持人: 四年后,对。

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>> Four years later, right.

Brian Stewart: 就在那里。

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>> There outside there.

主持人: 我想那段故事和那段关系,与你到过的所有其他地方和故事相比,是独一无二的。

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>> I have to imagine that that story and that relationship is unique in comparison to all of the other places and stories that you've been.

你没有机会讲述那样一个完整的轮回故事。

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You don't get a chance to be able to tell that full circle story.

我想那一定让你感到沉重。

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And I imagine that that must weigh on you heavily.

我知道你在书中谈到了道德创伤(Moral Injury: 因在高度道德冲突情境中目睹或参与违背自身道德信念的行为而产生的心理痛苦)。

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I know that in your book you talk about the moral injury.

你能告诉我们些什么?

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What what what can you tell us about that?

Brian Stewart: 嗯,新闻界花了很长时间才真正意识到作为一名专业见证人反复面对危险所带来的心理和情感伤害,这也是那种生活的重要组成部分。

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>> Well, it was a long time for journalism to really realise the psychological and emotional damage of being this professional witness over and over again and also facing dangers, which is so much a part of that life.

直到90年代,新闻界才发现创伤后应激障碍(PTSD: Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder,一种在经历或目睹创伤性事件后可能发生的精神疾病)正在肆虐记者队伍。

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It wasn't really until the '90s that journalism discovered that PTSD was ravaging the ranks.

后来发现还有一种叫做道德创伤的东西,它不是一种心理精神疾病(Psychological Mental Illness: 影响思维、情绪和行为的精神健康状况)。

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It turned out later there was another thing called moral injury, which is not a psychological mental illness.

它是一种情感上的。

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It's an emotional one.

多伦多领先的精神病学家安东尼·芬斯坦(Anthony Feinstein)将其称为灵魂创伤(Wound to the Soul: 对个人精神或道德核心造成的深刻伤害),当你反复看到那样的事情发生时,即使你可能在报道方面做得很好,做了有用的事情,你可以对自己说一百遍,“看,做得很好。我们能在那里是件好事。我们帮助了援助的到来。”

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Leading psychiatrist in Toronto, Anthony Feinstein, as termed that, wound to the soul, a wound of the spirit that when you watch things like that happen over and over again, even though you may be doing wonderful work in terms of a report that does useful stuff and you can tell yourself a hundred times over, look, it did well. It was good that we were there. We helped the aid arrive.

你仍然会觉得作为一个人,你没有达到自己最高的期望,因为有难民家庭。

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You still feel that as a human being, you didn't quite live up to your highest expectations of yourself because there were refugee families.

你没有停下来把他们装进你的面包车,然后开到医疗中心。

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You didn't stop and load into your van and drive off with for to a medical centre.

你口袋里有些东西,但在特定时间你没有拿出来。

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There was something in your pocket you didn't hand out at a given time.

还有其他人,即使你没有资格做任何事情,就像我没有资格提供急救一样。

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There were other people, even though you weren't qualified to do anything, as I was not qualified to even give first aid.

我在饥荒中做什么?

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What was I doing in a famine?

你总会觉得我本可以做得更多,我本可以做得更多。

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You kind of feel I could have done more, I could have done more.

多年来,这种感觉开始积累,以至于你出现了非常像PTSD的症状。

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And that begins over the years to build to the point where you have symptoms very like PTSD.

事实上,我因此经历了一次精神崩溃,并成功地接受了道德创伤的治疗。

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And I had, in fact, a nervous breakdown caused by this and was treated for moral injury successfully.

所以我很高兴地说。

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So I'm glad to say so.

从那以后我过着非常好的生活。

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I've lived a very good life since that.

外国报道的衰落与民主的未来

主持人: 这不是秘密,你也在CBC、NBC以及后来回来的时间里谈到过。

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>> It is no secret, and it's something that you talk about through your time at CBC, NBC and then back.

新闻编辑室不再拥有曾经的资源,我很好奇,当我们失去像你这样在外国记者报道领域为世界提供信息的人的特权时,民主会发生什么?

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Newsrooms don't have the resources that they once did, and I am curious what happens to democracy when we lose the privilege of someone like you in the field of foreign correspondent reporting for the world to see?

Brian Stewart: 我认为这对媒体来说是一个严重的损失。

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>> I think it's a serious loss for particularly the media.

而且,你知道,加拿大是一个不再拥有像过去那样的外交使团(Diplomatic Corps: 一个国家驻外外交人员的总称)的国家。

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But also, you know, Canada is a country that doesn't have the same kind of diplomatic corps it used to have.

它是一个选择甚至不拥有自己海外情报机构(Overseas Intelligence Service: 负责在国外收集情报以维护国家利益的机构)的国家。

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It's a country that chose not to even have an overseas intelligence service of its own.

像我们这样规模的大多数工业强国,内阁似乎经常对世界其他地方一无所知,而新闻业。

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Like most industrial powers of our size, cabinet often seems out to lunch on the rest of the world and journalism.

我们已经严重削减了(Decimated the Ranks: 大幅减少或摧毁某个群体)海外报道的队伍。

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We've just decimated the ranks of our overseas coverage.

所以我们从其他人那里获取新闻。

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So we we get stories from other people.

我们没有加拿大的眼睛和耳朵在那里寻找我们国家需要了解的角度。

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We don't have Canadian eyes and ears out there looking for angles that we as a country need to be informed about.

我认为主要网络,私人网络,在几乎消除他们自己的机构和记者进行的外国新闻报道方面做得非常糟糕,坦率地说,是可怕的工作。

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And I think the main networks, the private networks have done, I'll be quite frank and horrible job at virtually eliminating foreign news coverage by their own bureaus and reporters.

而CBC一直扮演着一种桥梁的角色。

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And the CBC has held a held a sort of bridge.

所以它仍然在运作,但影响力大大降低。

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So it's still functioning, but with a much lower impact.

结果是,在新闻不断爆发的时候,我们却有更少的记者在外面工作,新闻的漩涡(Vortex of News: 持续不断、快速更新的新闻流)24/7地持续着,危机接连不断,新闻的碎片化(Fragmentation of News: 新闻来源和内容变得分散、多样化)使得在外面工作变得非常困难。

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And what happens is we have fewer reporters out there doing the job at a time when there's more stories breaking all the time, the vortex of news that goes on 24 over seven, over and over, crisis upon crisis, upon crisis, and the fragmentation of news makes it very much harder to do the job out there.

所以我希望这个国家能意识到我们必须开始重建我们的海外媒体资源,就像我们必须重建我们的外交资源和海外经济资源一样。

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So I'm hoping that this country gets to a part where it realises we have got to start rebuilding our foreign media sources overseas, the same way we have to rebuild our our diplomatic sources as well, and our economic sources overseas.

主持人: 布莱恩,非常感谢。非常感谢。

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>> Brian, thank you so much. Really appreciate that.

Brian Stewart: 非常感谢,荣幸之至。

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>> Thank you very. Much, honour. My pleasure indeed.

主持人: 制作一档新节目是一个机会,我们希望得到你的帮助。

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>> Creating a new show is an opportunity and we want your help.

你想了解更多什么?是什么让你观看?

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What do you want to know more about? What makes you watch?

请通过TVO.org/rundownfeedback告诉我们,或者在YouTube上给我们留言。

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Let us know at TVO.org/rundownfeedback or leave us a comment on YouTube.

下次再见,明天见。

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Until then, see you tomorrow.

关键字: canadian-politics geopolitical media moral-injury tariff