“清洁”技术背后的肮脏交易
我是《纽约时报》的雷切尔·艾布拉姆斯,这里是《每日》节目。
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From the New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams and [music] this is the Daily.
在美国,关于如何应对气候变化的激烈争论中,回收铅曾被视为一个令人欣慰的故事。
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In the contentious fight over how to address climate change in the United States, [music] recycled lead is a feelgood story.
它可以通过确保工人安全的技术进行处理,并被重新用于为全球数百万辆汽车提供动力的电池中。
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It can be processed with techniques that keep workers safe and [music] reused in batteries that power millions of vehicles around the world.
然而,《纽约时报》的一项调查揭示了这项环保倡议如何以巨大的生命代价为代价。
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But a New Times investigation [music] reveals how this environmental initiative comes at a major human cost.
今天,彼得·古德曼将解释这项所谓“清洁”技术背后的肮脏交易。
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Today, [music] Peter Goodman explains the dirty business of a supposedly clean [music] technology.
调查的缘起与挑战
彼得,欢迎来到节目。感谢邀请我。
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Peter, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.
您是我们在全球经济领域最重要的专家之一,您刚刚发布了一项关于回收电池和铅中毒的调查,这项调查确实令人大开眼界,我敢打赌大多数人对此知之甚少。
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You are one of our foremost experts on the global economy and you just came out with this really eyeopening investigation on recycled batteries and lead poisoning, which I will bet is not something that most people know a lot about.
所以,我非常想知道两件事。第一,您是如何开始这项调查的?第二,彼得,当您刚开始时,您对回收电池了解多少?
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So, I'm very curious to know two things. One, how did you even get on this investigation? And number two, how much did you, Peter, know about recycled batteries when you first started?
我对回收电池一无所知,这已经是往高了说了。
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I knew zero about recycled batteries. And that's that's that's rounding up.
我接到了The Examination的一个电话,这是一家相对较新的独立调查新闻机构,专门从事全球公共卫生领域的报道。
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So I got a call from a guy at the Examination, which is this relatively new independent investigative newsroom that specializes in global public health.
他们有一位非常出色的记者,我从未见过他,但听说过他,名叫威尔·菲茨吉布(Will Fitzgibbon)。
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And they had this really terrific reporter, a guy I'd never met, though I'd heard about him, Will Fitzgib.
他已经在非洲做了不少工作,他是一位铅(Lead: 一种重金属元素,因其毒性对人体健康有害)方面的专家。
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He had done a fair bit of work already in Africa. He he was a lead expert.
他深入调查了铅回收行业。
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He dug into the lead recycling industry.
这个行业为美国汽车引擎盖下的大量汽车电池提供原材料。
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And and this is the industry that supplies a lot of the car batteries that we find under the hoods of cars in the US.
我们谈论的是新车、二手车,以及像AutoZone、Home Depot、Walmart这样的地方。
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We're talking new cars, used cars, places like AutoZone, Home Depot, Walmart.
我们用于在美国制造汽车电池的大部分铅都来自美国境外,因为我们国内的供应已经耗尽。
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And a lot of the lead that we're using to make car batteries in the US is coming from outside of the US because we've run out of supply domestically.
因此,该行业已在全球范围内寻找新的铅来源。
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So the industry's gone out looking around the world for new sources of lead.
而现在,它正在积极寻找的一个地方就是尼日利亚。
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And one of the places it's now looking quite aggressively is Nigeria.
威尔已经花了很多时间调查这项业务在当地的实际情况。
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Will had already spent a fair bit of time looking into what this business actually looks like on the ground.
他已经发现,铅回收过程的执行方式近距离观察起来相当可怕,对人们的健康造成了严重危害。
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He'd already figured out that the process of recycling lead was being done in a way that was really quite horrific to see up close. It was really harmful to people.
他有一个很棒的想法,那就是我们实际上可以去对人们进行检测。
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and he'd had this terrific idea which was that, you know, we would actually go and test people.
我们会找到愿意自愿进行血液检测的人,并量化到底有多少铅进入了人们的血液。
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We would find people willing to volunteer for blood tests and quantify just exactly how much lead was reaching people's bloodstreams.
我们还会检测土壤,以调查食物供应是否受到污染。
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And we'd also test soil to look into the tainting of the food supply.
因此,我被招募来尝试弄清楚谁在购买这些铅,贸易条款是如何达成的,以及整个过程中的所有物流环节。
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And so I got enlisted to try to take a run at figuring out who was buying it, how the terms of trade were going down, all the logistics along the way.
他们需要我,因为我从事复杂供应链故事的报道已有25年多的时间,足迹遍布全球。
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They wanted me because I've been writing versions of complex supply chain stories now for 25 plus years around the world.
虽然我对这个特定行业一无所知,但我对航运和物流有一些了解,而且我确实很想尝试将西非这场公共卫生灾难与美国的汽车行业联系起来。
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And I didn't know anything about this particular industry, but I did have some inkling about shipping, logistics, and I was certainly intrigued to try to make the connection between this public health catastrophe in West Africa and the auto industry in the United States.
这种联系听起来极具挑战性。
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That connection sounds incredibly challenging to make.
是的,这极具挑战性,特别是因为我们谈论的是一项秘密贸易。
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Yeah, it's it's enormously challenging, especially because we're talking about a trade that's secret.
我的意思是,参与者对与任何人谈论这些事情都没有兴趣。
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I mean, the participants have no interest in talking to anybody about this stuff.
公开可用的数据非常有限。
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There's limited publicly available data.
因此,我发现自己承担了职业生涯中最困难的报道任务,坦白说。
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And so, I found myself taking on what quite honestly was the most difficult reporting assignment of my career.
尼日利亚的铅污染现场
您实际的报道之旅是从哪里开始的?
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Where did you actually start the reporting journey?
所以,威尔已经做了很多前期工作。
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So, Will had already done a lot of this leg work.
他已经在尼日利亚找到了消息来源,他知道这些工厂在哪里。
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He already had sources in Nigeria. He understood where these factories were.
然后我与威尔一起去了那里,以确定居住在这些工厂旁边村庄里的人们所面临的真实生活后果,并与拉各斯(Lagos)的人们交谈,他们可以告诉我们铅被装入集装箱并运往世界各地港口之前,尼日利亚供应链的环节。
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And then I went there with Will to nail down the real life consequences for the people living in villages right next to these plants and also to go talk to people in Lagos who could tell us about the Nigeria supply chain part of it before this lead gets put into shipping containers and sent across the water for ports around the world.
那么您具体去了哪里,看到了什么?
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So where exactly did you go and what did you see there?
我去了奥伊乔(Oie Joe),它就在拉各斯北部,拉各斯是一个庞大、广阔的大都市区。
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So I went to a place called Oie Joe which is just north of Lagos which is a sprawling you know enormous metropolitan area
奥伊乔有点像工业区和农村地区的结合体,那里有很多冶炼厂(Smelters: 从矿石中提取金属或回收废金属的工厂),包括我们最终重点关注的True Metals。
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and Oi Joe is sort of a combination of an industrial and rural where there are a bunch of smelters including the one that we wound up focusing on called True Metals
我们选择它不仅因为它的污染排放非常严重,还因为它只处理铅。
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and we picked it not only because it's really bad in terms of the pollution that it puts out but also because it only deals in lead.
这些大型工厂里,工人们将铅送入巨大的熔炉,产生的烟雾弥漫在整个区域,包括紧邻工厂的村庄。
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And these are large factories where people are feeding this lead into these giant furnaces that send smoke wafting throughout the area, including in these villages that are right next to the factories.
我花了很多时间与当地家庭坐在一起,与他们谈论住在这些工厂旁边的困境。
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So I spent a lot of time just sitting with families uh talking to them about the struggle of living next door to these plants.
人们咳嗽,抱怨各种与铅中毒相关的疾病,比如消化不良和各种胃肠道不适,以及持续不断的头痛。
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People were coughing. People were complaining of all sorts of ailments that are linked in the literature to lead poisoning. You know, indigestion and various gastrointestinal distress, unrelenting headaches.
我还看到工厂旁边的学校里的孩子们。
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And I saw children in schools that were literally next to these factories.
所以,我对我近距离看到的一切感到震惊和恐惧。
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So, I I was just blown away and really horrified by what I was seeing up close.
这让我真正意识到这个故事的重要性。
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And it gave me a real sense of this story is really important.
所以,你在这个小镇上看到的所有污染迹象都来自这个铅电池回收过程。
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So what you're seeing in this town is all these signs of pollution that is coming from this lead battery recycling process.
正规回收与尼日利亚乱象的对比
在我们深入故事之前,我想请您解释一下电池是如何以及为何以正确的方式回收的,然后您在尼日利亚看到了什么,以及那里的情况有何不同。
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Before we get any further in the story, I just want to have you explain how and why a battery gets recycled the correct way and then what you saw in Nigeria and how that was different.
当然。所以,重要的是要指出,路上几乎每辆车,甚至电动汽车,某个地方都装有铅电池。
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Sure. So, you know, it's important to note that virtually every car on the road has a lead battery under there somewhere, even electric vehicles.
如果我们没有铅电池,我们会很快注意到。
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And if we didn't have lead batteries, we'd notice real fast.
它恰好是地球上最可回收的元素之一。
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And it happens to be one of the most recyclable elements on Earth.
汽车行业也确实利用这一点,将自己宣传为循环经济(Circular Economy: 旨在通过重复利用、修复和回收产品与材料,以减少浪费和资源消耗的经济模式)的典范。
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And the auto industry has really leaned into that in promoting itself as the exemplar of the circular economy.
他们确实回收了大部分旧电池,并拥有非常先进的回收工厂。
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They do recycle most of these old batteries and have very sophisticated plants that recycle.
他们拥有自动化流程,可以安全地拆解旧电池并提取铅。
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They have, you know, automated processes that break apart the old batteries and extract the lead safely.
他们处理电池中的酸液。
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They dispose of the acid that's in there.
他们还设有排放控制系统,防止铅尘和烟雾排放到社区中。
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They have emissions controls that prevent lead dust and smoke from spewing out into communities.
所有这些都需要数百万美元的成本。
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All that stuff costs millions of dollars.
因此,随着美国等地法规变得越来越严格,一些冶炼厂已经搬迁,这消除了当地的供应。
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And so as regulations have gotten stricter in places like the United States, we've had smelters move, so that's eliminated local supply.
与此同时,由于人口增长,需求也增加了。
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At the same time, demand has increased because population is growing.
开车的人越来越多。
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We got more people driving around in cars.
因此,电池制造商不得不全球寻找更多的铅。
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And so battery manufacturers have had to go around the world to go find more lead.
我在尼日利亚看到的情况,与您如果有幸被邀请到北美的一家铅回收厂所看到的情况,截然不同。
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And what I saw in Nigeria was something very different than what you would see if you managed to get invited into a lead recycling plant in North America.
首先,我看到人们在所谓的“拆解场”工作。
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I saw first of all people in so-called breaking yards.
这些地方是他们处理废旧电池的地方。
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These are the places where they get the spent batteries.
这些电池由被称为“拾荒者”的人用人力车、自行车、摩托车或卡车运来,他们将这些旧电池带到这些场地,然后男人们,通常赤裸上身,没有任何防护装备,用砍刀砸开塑料外壳。
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They're brought by these people known as pickers who come in by rickshaw, bicycle, motorbike, truck, and they bring these old batteries into these yards and then men often shirtless with no protective gear whatsoever, use machetes to break apart the plastic casing,
这在美国本应是在严格控制的环境下由机器完成的工作。
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just hammering at them. And this is what would have been done by machines in the United States in a tightly controlled environment.
没错。
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Correct.
这听起来极其危险。
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This sounds incredibly dangerous.
极其危险。你完全可以感受到。
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Incredibly dangerous. You can just sense it.
你不需要什么环境科学博士学位就能明白,不戴安全眼镜、不戴手套、不穿上衣,拿着砍刀猛砸旧电池,让酸液四处飞溅,这不是个好主意。
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Like you you don't need some sort of PhD in environmental science to understand that it's not a good idea to have no safety goggles, to have no gloves, to not have a shirt on, to be taking a machete, slamming it into an old battery with acid spewing out in every direction.
那些小型的操作,他们直接把酸液倾倒进水道里。
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Uh the smaller operations, they take the acid and they actually dump it into waterways.
这简直太可怕了。
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It's just horrifying.
所以,这只是电池拆解操作。
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Right. So that's just the battery breaking operations.
然后是熔炉。
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Then there's the furnaces.
这是大部分污染的来源。
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This is where most of the pollution comes from.
熔炉是巨大的设施,它们将从废旧电池中取出的旧铅熔化,并在极高的温度下将其炼成熔融液体,然后倒入模具中,形成锭(Ingots: 铸成块状的金属,便于运输和进一步加工),这些锭随后可以被运输到电池制造商那里,用于制造新电池。
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The furnaces are these giant facilities that take the old lead taken out of spent batteries and they melt it down. and they cook it at incredibly high temperatures [music] into this molten liquid that's poured into molds that then form these ingots that can then be, you know, moved around, trucked to battery manufacturers that make new batteries.
如果您在美国看到一家工厂或熔炉,您会看到用于吸尘的设备,会看到防止烟雾进入社区的机械,还会看到各种自动化系统,以防止工人徒手接触物品而中毒。
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And if you saw a plant, a furnace in the US, you'd see equipment [music] used to vacuum up dust. You'd see machinery that prevents smoke from getting out into the communities. You'd see all sorts of automated systems to prevent workers from poisoning themselves by touching things with their bare hands.
我在尼日利亚看到的只是露天操作。
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What I saw in Nigeria was just open air.
我的意思是,你可以用肉眼看到烟雾从这些工厂波纹金属屋顶的缝隙中冒出来。
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I mean, you could see the smoke with your bare eyes just getting out between the sheets of corrugated metal that are the roofs of these factories.
你可以闻到它。
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You could smell it.
我被邀请到人们的家中。
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I was invited into people's homes.
我与一位男士交谈,他说:“是的,我的墙壁都是黑的。”
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I talked to a man who said, "Yeah, my walls are black."
你可以看到,烟雾是如此浓烈,其影响是如此明显和触手可及,以至于不可能不为此动容。
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And you could see it just the smoke is so intense and the impacts of this are just so obvious and so palpable that it was impossible to not be moved by this.
追踪秘密供应链:从托克到东宾
所以听起来这些地方的运营几乎没有监管。
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So it sounds like these places are operating with very little regulation.
您最终是如何追踪他们生产的铅的去向的?
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How did you end up tracing what happens to the lead that they produce?
我们有贸易数据。
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Well, we had trade data.
The Examination的威尔建立了一个很棒的数据库,其中包含了所有公开可用的信息。
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You know, Will at the examination built a terrific database that had all the publicly available information.
通常,一家贸易公司会在全球范围内寻找回收铅的来源。
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So, typically a trading company will identify sources of recycled lead around the world.
他们会购买,然后运到美国的终点,通常是巴尔的摩港,然后故事就结束了。
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They'll buy it, they'll ship it to an end point in the United States, typically the port of Baltimore, and then the story ended.
所以,我的工作是弄清楚,接下来会发生什么?
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So, my job was to figure out, well, then what happens?
那么您是如何做到的呢?
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So, how did you do that?
我很快就发现没有专家可以咨询。
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So I quickly figured out there's no expert to call.
没有人就此写过学位论文,没有相关的书籍,也没有YouTube纪录片可以提供线索。
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There's nobody who did a dissertation on this. There's no book. There's no YouTube documentaries to watch for tips.
甚至连Reddit上也没有可以获取可疑建议的地方。
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There isn't even, you know, Reddit to go get dubious, you know, tips.
我当时对一切都一无所知。
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I I was for everything. Yeah.
它就像一个黑箱。
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It was just a black box.
我开始联系那些为这些贸易公司工作的人。
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And I started to reach out to people who worked for these trading companies.
我最关注的是一家名为托克(Trafigura: 一家大型商品贸易公司)的公司。
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The one I was most focused on was this company called Trafagura.
澄清一下,托克在这里基本上是中间商的角色。
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And to be clear, Trafager is basically a middleman here.
没错。
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Correct.
托克的工作就是买卖商品。
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Yeah. Trafagura's job is to buy and sell commodities.
他们最了解有什么可用的商品,价格是多少。
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They're the ones who are most expert in what's available, what's the price.
所以我们数据库里有可以看到的交易记录,托克从尼日利亚的这些冶炼厂购买铅,然后运到巴尔的摩港。
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And so I we had transactions we could see in the database where traffickers buying lead from these smelters were focusing on in Nigeria and shipping it to the port of Baltimore.
但当时我不知道谁是买家。
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But I had no idea who was buying it at that point.
所以我做了很多不同的事情。
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And so I did a bunch of different things.
我报名参加贸易展,希望能遇到能帮助我讲述故事的人。
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I signed up to go to trade shows hoping I would run into people who would help tell me the story.
我在LinkedIn上花了很多时间,给所有在托克工作过的人群发消息,这感觉相当孤独和徒劳。
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I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn just mass messaging anybody who had worked at Trafigura and that was pretty lonely and felt fairly futile.
大多数人无视我,有些人把我转给公关人员,然后公关人员也无视我。
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Most people ignored me. Some sent me to the communications people who then ignored me.
最终,少数人开始以非常关键的方式帮助我,他们反复提到同一个可能的买家:东宾(East Penn: 美国第二大电池制造商)。
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Um, and then eventually a handful of people started helping me in a really critical way and they started to name the same likely purchaser over and over again. They named East Pen, which is the second largest battery manufacturer in the United States.
这是一家家族企业,没有上市,非常低调,不喜欢与媒体打交道,当然也不想与我打交道。
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It's this family-owned business. They're not publicly traded. They're very quiet and and they don't like to deal with the press, and they certainly didn't want to deal with me.
所以,在这一点上,我“知道”(我用了引号),就像我通过深度背景信息知道,没有姓名,没有文件,东宾正在从将铅运到巴尔的摩港的贸易公司购买铅。
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So, at this point, I know, and I put that in quotation marks, like I know on deep background, right, with no names attached and no documents that East Penn is buying lead from trading companies that are bringing it into the Port of Baltimore.
但我无法证明它。
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But I can't prove it.
您还不能报道。
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You can't report it yet.
您有很好的报道,但目前还不能公开发表。
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You have good reporting, but it's not reportable yet.
根据这些消息来源,这肯定不会成为故事中令人满意的重要部分。
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It's not It's certainly not going to be a satisfying significant part of the story based on that sourcing.
我需要更强有力的证据。
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I needed something stronger.
于是,我去了巴尔的摩港。
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So, I went to the port of Baltimore.
我实际上在那里和一位非常优秀的摄影师待了一整天,她可能度过了人生中最无聊的一天。
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I actually spent a whole day there with a really excellent photographer who had probably the most unexiting day of her life.
那一天相当徒劳。
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It was kind of a fairly futile day.
我们租了一艘小渔船,在巴尔的摩港口四处游荡,我们看到了这些货物进港的码头。
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We actually chartered a little fishing boat and we just like toled around the harbor in Baltimore and we were able to see the dock where some of these shipments come in.
我们看到一个卡车堆场,他们在那里从水路卸货,我们对地理位置有了一些了解,但那天没有船运送铅。
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We saw a trucking yard where they unload it from the water and we got a sense of the geography, but there was no vessel bringing in lead on this particular day.
但我确实学到了一些东西。
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But I did learn something.
由于那次报道,由于我在卡车堆场学到的东西,我联系了这家物流公司,那里的一个负责人非常不情愿地、有些含糊地证实,他们处理来自西非的铅,这些铅由托克购买,他们将其中一部分运往宾夕法尼亚州的东宾公司。
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And because of that reporting, because of what I learned at the truckard, I reached out to this logistics company where a guy who ran the yard did very reluctantly and somewhat elliptically confirm that they handled lead incoming from West Africa, purchased by Trafagura, and they sent some of it out to Pennsylvania to East Penn.
但我们仍然需要与东宾公司谈谈这一切,因为,你知道,请记住这是美国第二大电池制造商。
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But we still really needed to talk to East Penn about all this because, you know, let's remember this is the second largest battery manufacturer in the United States.
它不是一个家喻户晓的名字,也不是我们大多数人会想到的公司,但它就在那里,我们都是参与者。
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It's not a household name. It's not a company most of us ever think about, but it's there and we're participants.
他们正在为数百万辆汽车制造电池,这些汽车行驶在路上。
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They're making batteries under the hoods of millions of cars that are out there on the road.
他们是真正从中获利并依赖尼日利亚供应的公司。
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They're the ones actually profiting off of this and depending upon the supply in Nigeria.
所以我想了解他们正在进行哪些尽职调查(Due Diligence: 在进行商业交易或投资前,对潜在风险、合规性等方面进行的全面审查),以确保他们从尼日利亚购买的铅符合其社会和环境标准。
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So I wanted to understand what sorts of due diligence they were undertaking to ensure that this lead they were buying from Nigeria was in compliance with their social and environmental standard.
我曾致电东宾公司,但他们一直敷衍我,不接我的电话,也不回复我的邮件。
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So I'd had calls out to East Penn and they were just blowing me off. They weren't responding to my calls. I wasn't getting responses to my emails.
没有任何回应。
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Just no response.
我很清楚,我必须想办法与东宾公司对质。
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And it became clear to me that I was going to have to figure out how to confront East Penn.
艰难的对话与道德责任
彼得,我做了很多年记者,所以我完全能理解这种想法:你有很多问题,你必须面对你报道的对象,给他们回应的机会,但你试图通过正门进入却毫无进展,这听起来就像你与东宾公司打交道时发生的情况。
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Peter, I spent many years as a reporter, so I can absolutely relate to this idea that you have questions, you have to get in front of the people you're writing about, give them an opportunity to respond, and you are getting nowhere trying to go in through the front door, which is what sounds like it was happening to you with East Penn.
所以,我想你不得不创造性地寻找机会让他们发表评论。
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So, I imagine you had to get creative about how to actually give them an opportunity to comment.
我不得不让我的风格引人注目。
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I had to make a spectacle of my style.
事情就是这样发生的。
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Is actually how it happened.
所以,最大的突破是在圣安东尼奥,那里正在举行国际电池理事会(Battery Council International: 一个全球性的电池行业协会)的聚会。
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So the big break was in San Antonio where the Battery Council International has this gathering.
这是一个大型高尔夫度假村,有来自电池公司、铅回收公司以及设备制造商的人,他们都在打高尔夫、喝酒、吃饭,玩得很开心。
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It's this big, you know, golf resort and there are people from battery companies and lead recycling and, you know, companies that make equipment used and and they're all golfing and drinking and dining and having a good time.
而当我一说出我正在报道的故事,他们要么一无所知,因为大多数人当我告诉他们这个故事时,他们会说:尼日利亚?不可能。
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And the second I identify what story I'm working on, they either don't know anything about it because and most most people when I would tell them the story, they say Nigeria. No way.
我们不从尼日利亚购买铅。
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We're not buying lead from Nigeria.
他们甚至怎么会有铅呢?
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That's just not even how could they even have lead.
哇。好吧。他们知道。
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Wow. Okay. They know.
然后,少数知道内情的人则表示,他们最不想做的事情就是和《纽约时报》的人谈论这个话题。
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And then the handful of people who did know were like the last thing I want to do is talk about this subject with someone from the New York Times.
我发现东宾公司的负责人,当时的首席执行官克里斯·普伊特(Chris Puit),将获得国际电池理事会颁发的杰出服务奖,我打算去,因为这是我当时唯一的机会。
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And I figured out that the head of East Penn, the then CEO of East Penn, this guy Chris Puit, is getting this distinguished service award from the Battery Council International, and I'm planning to go because it's going to be my only shot at this point.
我曾致电他们的各种营销人员,但都毫无进展。
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I've got calls out to their various marketing people. I've just got nowhere.
所以,我知道克里斯·普伊特在那里。
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So, I know Chris Puit's there.
我真的很想和他谈谈。
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I really want to talk to him.
公关人员说,这是为了表彰他,如果你在那里问这些令人不舒服的问题,那会非常尴尬。
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The communications guy says this is supposed to be honoring him. and if you're there asking these uncomfortable questions, that'll really be awkward.
现在,我作为记者会想,好吧,我真的不在乎。
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Now, the reporter in me is like, well, I I don't really care.
我为读者工作。
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I work for the reader.
我必须去问这些问题。
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I have to go ask these questions.
但我想,如果我反正也得不到任何进展,只是让自己出丑,那也没有什么好处。
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But I thought, well, if I'm not going to get anywhere anyway, and I'm just going to make a spectacle of myself, there's no upside to that.
你不会伏击他。
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You won't ambush him.
我不会伏击他,但从中,我将为更富有成效的接触奠定基础,也许可以去宾夕法尼亚拜访他。
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I won't ambush him, but out of that, I'll get some basis for a more productive engagement and maybe go visit him in Pennsylvania.
我最终确实收到了东宾公司外部公关公司的回复,并开始与他们接触。
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I do finally hear from an outside PR firm for East Penn and I start to engage with them.
最终,我成功说服了克里斯·普伊特和东宾公司的其他高管与我们交谈。
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Eventually, I was able to persuade Chris Puit and other executives at East Pen to talk to us.
他实际对您说了什么?
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And what did he actually say to you?
他说,我们的报道让他对铅的来源进行了比以往更多的思考。
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Well, he said that our reporting had caused him to do a lot more thinking than he'd previously done about the origins of the lead.
此前,他曾与托克这样的贸易公司交谈,并表示他需要特定纯度的铅,并且当然,你们要保证这不会造成社会或环境问题。
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that previously he he had talked to trading companies like Trafagura and had said you know I need this particular purity and oh by the way of course you're guaranteeing that this is not causing social or environmental problems.
哦,不,当然不会。
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Oh, no, of course not.
贸易公司会说,我们有审计流程。
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The trading company would say, you know, we have audit processes.
一切都很好。
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You know, all this is good.
好吧,只要你们能以保证的价格提供我们所需的数量和纯度,一切都好。
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Okay, then just as long as you can deliver the quantity and the purity that we need at the guaranteed price, all good.
而在我们的报道之后,他实际上深入调查了自己的供应链。
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And since our reporting, he'd actually dug into his own supply chain.
他开始关注贸易公司进行尽职调查的过程。
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Had become concerned about the process of due diligence that trading companies were doing.
用他的话说,出于极度的谨慎,他决定不再从尼日利亚购买任何铅。
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And as he put it, you know, out of the utmost of caution, decided that he didn't want to buy any more lead from Nigeria.
所以,我曾一度问他关于道德责任(Moral Culpability: 指一个人因其行为或不作为而应承担的道德上的过错或责任)的问题,我说,既然我们现在知道托克的尽职调查还有很多不足之处,而且我们亲眼看到了这些冶炼厂旁边村庄里发生的一切,那么在这件事的道德责任方面,您处于什么位置?
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So I did ask him at one point about moral culpability and I said well you know given that we now know that Trafagura's due diligence leaves a lot to be desired and we could see with our own eyes and what was playing out in these villages [clears throat] next to these smelters. Where do you fit in in in terms of the moral culpability for this?
他说:“看,我是否过于信任?我愿意承担这个指责。”
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And he said, he said, "Look, you know, was I too trusting? I'll take that shot."
您对此有何看法?
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What did you make of that?
我认为这总结了复杂供应链的现实。
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I thought that summed up the reality of complicated supply chains.
其中内置了如此多的合理推诿(Plausible Deniability: 指通过保持对某些事实的不知情或否认,从而避免对不当行为承担责任的能力),任何一个参与者都可以合理地说:“哦,我以为有别人在负责。”
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There's so much sort of plausible deniability built in that any given participant can say plausibly, "Oh, I thought somebody else was looking out."
然而,就这一点而言,东宾公司承认当地发生的事情是不对的,对吗?
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Well, to that point though, this is East Penn acknowledging that what's happening on the ground is not okay, right?
比如,这不符合他们作为一家美国公司的标准,对吗?
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Like it's not up to their standards as an American company, right?
但托克公司呢?
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But what about Trafigura?
他们是否承诺改变或修正他们的行为?
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Like, have they made any kind of pledge to change or modify their behavior?
托克公司给了我们一份泛泛的声明。
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So, Trafagura gave us this kind of general statement.
但他们声称他们有一个审计流程,确保他们遵守其官方的社会和环境标准。
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Uh but they say that they have an audit process that ensures that they're complying with their official social and environmental standards.
我们实际上与一位在拉各斯为托克公司进行审计的顾问进行了交谈,他反驳了这种审计只是表面功夫的说法。
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And we actually talked to a consultant who does the audits for traffic in Lagos who pushed back on the idea that it's just like performative superficial.
他说他真的会去实地查看。
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He he said I I really go and I look.
我问的第一个问题是:好的。
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First question I had is okay.
您会去电池拆解场吗?
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Do you go to the battery breaking yards?
不,不,我只去冶炼厂。
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No. No. I just go to the smelter.
好的。
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Okay.
所以,一开始,您就对进入的原材料一无所知,也不知道在这些地方工作的人们所受到的影响,也不知道酸液的去向。
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So, right right off the bat, you don't know anything about the raw materials that are coming in or the impacts for the people who are working in those places or where the acid's going.
它是否流入了河流?
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Is it going into stream?
这些都不知道,对吗?
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You know, none of that, right?
所以,即使在冶炼厂,我说:“那么您做什么呢?”
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So, then even at the smelter, I said, "Well, what do you what do you do?"
他说:“我会非常仔细地查看。”
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He said, "Well, I I look very, you know, carefully."
但这位顾问说:“我确实会给他们一份我发现的问题清单。”
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But the consultant said, "I give them a real list of problems that I identify."
但事情的运作方式,以及我与在托克公司工作过的人确认过的情况是,审计员会说:“好的,你知道,如果你们定期分发安全眼镜会非常好。
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But the way this goes, and I and I confirmed this with people who've worked at traffic, is the auditor will say, "Okay, you know, it really would be good if you handed out safety goggles on a regular basis.
如果你们建立一个系统来控制铅尘会非常好。
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It really would be good if you put in a system to control the lead dust.
如果你们安装电池拆解设备会很棒。”
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It would be great if you put in battery braking equipment."
然后冶炼厂会说:“好的,非常感谢您的建议。
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and the smelter will say, "Okay, thank you very much for your suggestion.
我们一定会分发安全眼镜。”
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We will certainly hand out safety goggles."
然后托克公司会说:“太棒了,您的审计完成了。
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And then traffic says, "Great, your audit's done.
现在,我们来谈谈下一笔交易的数量。”
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Now, let's talk about the volume of the next deal."
我的意思是,这不是一个能导致交易中断的过程。
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I mean, this is not a process that can end up in derailing a deal.
这是一个旨在达成交易继续进行的结论的过程。
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This is a process that is informed by a desire to reach a conclusion at which the deal carries on.
这就是问题所在。
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And [clears throat] that's the problem.
所以有尽职调查,有检查,有建议,有行动计划,但没有强制性要求去做正确的事情,否则生意就做不成。
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So there is due diligence, there are inspections, there are recommendations, there are recommendations, there's an action plan, but there's no compulsion to do the right thing or the business doesn't happen.
与此同时,在大洋彼岸的买家,也就是克里斯·普伊特和东宾公司,对这一切一无所知,当然也不会坐飞机去尼日利亚,以确保托克公司真正进行严格的审计过程。
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And meanwhile, the person who's buying it on the other side of the ocean, in this case, Chris Puit and East Penn doesn't know any of that and is certainly not getting on a plane to go to Nigeria to make sure trafficker is really engaging in a rigorous audit process.
所以,到目前为止,听起来您已经知道了您从最初接到关于这次合作的电话以来,您所负责的调查部分的答案,对吗?
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So, at this point, it sounds like you know the answer to the part of the investigation that you were responsible for from that initial phone call you got about this partnership, right?
铅中毒的惨痛代价
那另一个问题呢?
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What about the other question?
关于铅中毒对尼日利亚这些城镇居民造成何种医疗损害的问题。
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The question about what kind of medical harm was being caused to the people in these towns in Nigeria by this lead poisoning.
在这方面,The Examination做了大量前期工作。
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So, this is where the examination did an extraordinary amount of leg work.
威尔委托了尼日利亚的一个独立科学家团队,他们找到了70名志愿者,其中有14名儿童,16名在这些铅冶炼厂工作的人,这些人就住在这些冶炼厂附近。
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So will had commissioned this team of independent scientists in Nigeria who found 70 volunteers and uh we're talking about 14 children, 16 people who worked at these lead smelters and these were people who live very close to these smelters.
想象一下一个村庄,在村庄的正中央,教堂紧挨着工厂的墙壁,学校也紧挨着工厂的墙壁。
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You know, imagine a village and in the very center of the village, you know, churches right up against the walls of these factories, schools right up against the walls of these factories.
所以,生活就在这些地方周围展开。
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So, life is playing out all around.
我们在附近检测了70名志愿者,其中大约十分之七的人血液中的铅含量被各种医疗机构认定为危险水平。
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And we tested 70 people, volunteers, right in the vicinity, and roughly seven out of 10 of them had levels of lead in their blood deemed dangerous by various medical authorities.
哇。
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Wow.
所以,我们关注的其中一件事是与十多年前南加州一家电池制造商发生的最严重铅灾难进行比较,那是一次联邦紧急事件。
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So, one of the things that we were focused on was this comparison with the worst lead disaster at a battery manufacturer in Southern California more than a decade ago, which was a federal emergency.
我的意思是,联邦政府介入,关闭了那个地方,检测了人们,并接管了。
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I mean, the feds went in, they shut the place down, they tested people, they took over.
他们至今仍在管理此事。
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They're still managing this.
那里的一所幼儿园进行的土壤测试发现铅含量为百万分之九十五(Parts Per Million, ppm: 一种衡量物质浓度的单位,表示每百万份总量中含有该物质的份数)。
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And there was a soil test conducted at a preschool there that found 95 parts per million lead.
我再给您重复一遍这个数字:百万分之九十五。
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Let me give you that number again. 95 parts per million.
我们在奥伊乔的一所学校进行了测试,发现铅含量为百万分之一千九百。
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We tested a school in Oi Joe where we found 1,900 parts per million.
我的天啊。
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My god.
是的。
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Yeah.
在那种污染水平下,您会立即预期到什么样的健康影响?
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At that level of contamination, what kind of health effects would you expect immediately?
首先,您谈论的是不可逆转的脑损伤(Irreversible Brain Damage: 指大脑组织受到永久性损害,功能无法恢复),特别是对儿童而言。
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Well, first of all, you're talking about irreversible brain damage, especially for children.
您谈论的是呼吸问题、持续不断的头痛、疲惫,以及功能丧失,这都是铅造成的,对吗?
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You're talking about respiratory problems, relentless headaches, exhaustion, just a lack of functioning, and that's the lead, right?
然后,还有这样一个现实:您生活在一个总是充满烟雾和可怕气体的地方,人们在那里咳嗽。
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And then there's just the reality of you're living in a place where there's smoke and terrible fumes all the time, and there people are coughing.
这简直就是一场活生生的噩梦。
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It's just a living nightmare.
尼日利亚政府的反应与行业困境
那么在您完成所有这些测试之后发生了什么?
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So, what happened after you did all this testing?
在我们完成测试后,我们的研究伙伴与尼日利亚政府和环境部门分享了部分数据,你知道,仅仅几天之内,奥伊乔最严重的五家冶炼厂就被关闭了。
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After we did the testing, our research partner shared some of this data with the Nigerian government, the environmental authorities, and within, you know, just a few days, the five worst smelters in Oijou were shut down.
这些公司的负责人被传唤到尼日利亚首都阿布贾(Abuja),就如何“可能”做出一些改进进行了对话。
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The heads of these companies were summoned up to Abuja, the capital of Nigeria, to have a conversation around how they could supposedly make some improvements.
然后他们被允许重新开工。
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And then they were given permission to restart.
所以听起来尼日利亚政府采取了相当迅速的行动。
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So it sounds like the Nigerian government took pretty swift action.
嗯,你知道,情况很复杂。
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Well, [clears throat] you know, it's complicated.
尼日利亚政府至少从2018年就开始收到这些健康问题的报告。
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So the Nigerian government has been receiving reports of these health problems going back at least to 2018.
他们得到了他们向我描述的承诺,要在这些工厂进行所有这些改进。
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And they got what they described to me as promises to make all of these improvements at these plants.
但当有人给我看这些工厂必须签署的实际协议副本时,这份据称具有强制执行力的文件并没有包含他们声称得到的那些承诺的任何细节。
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But when somebody showed me a copy of the actual protocol that these factories had to sign this supposedly enforcable document, it didn't have any of the details of these promises that they claimed they got.
它特别规定了一个两到三年的时间表,用于一个非常模糊的承诺,即改进工厂的技术。
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And it specifically had a two to threeyear timeline for a very vague promise to improve technology at the plants. Mhm.
所以很清楚,无论在与这些冶炼厂负责人开会时说了什么,都没有一份具有强制执行力的文件能迫使这些公司在短期内做出任何改变。
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So it seems pretty clear that whatever was said in the room with the heads of these smelters, there is no enforcable document that compels these companies to do anything differently anytime soon.
当我回到当地与这些冶炼厂的工人交谈时,他们说:“哦,是的,现在他们给我们发安全眼镜了。
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And when I was back on the ground talking to workers at these smelters, what they said is, "Oh yeah, now they're giving us uh safety goggles.
以前没有。
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They didn't used to do that.
哦,他们以前每周给我们发一次手套。
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Oh, they used to give us gloves once a week.
现在他们每周给我们发两次。”
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Now they're giving them to us twice a week.
可以合理地说,尼日利亚政府知道,如果它想保护人民,鉴于这些检测结果中显示的高铅含量,它可能应该做更多的事情,而不仅仅是分发手套和护目镜。
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And presumably it's fair to say that the Nigerian government knows that it probably should be doing a lot more than just handing out gloves and goggles if it wants to protect people given the high levels of lead that is showing up in these test results.
对。
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Right.
我的意思是,这些工厂必须安装严重的排放控制系统,这将花费数百万美元。
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I mean what has to happen at these plants is they have to put in serious emission controls and it's going to cost millions of dollars.
如果他们安装电池拆解设备,那也将花费数百万美元。
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If they put in battery braking equipment that's going to cost millions of dollars.
这不是靠一些手套和护目镜就能解决的问题。
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This is not something that's going to be fixed with a bunch of gloves and goggles.
我只是想知道,鉴于您报道全球供应链的经验,了解这里各种参与者的动机,以及改革整个行业是多么困难,您有多大信心在5年或10年,或者更长的时间里,有人在美国购买汽车时,能够确信车里的电池是以安全和人道的方式制造的。
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I do just wonder though given your experience covering global supply chains, knowing what the incentives are for the various actors here, knowing how hard it is to reform an entire industry, how confident are you that in 5 years or 10 years or however long somebody will be able to purchase a car in the United States and feel confident that the battery in that car was made in a safe and humane way.
我认为有充分的理由怀疑这种积极的结果会发生,原因很简单,造成我们一直在报道的这种局面的激励机制(Incentives: 促使个人或组织采取特定行动的因素)并未改变。
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I think there are serious reasons to doubt that that positive outcome will happen for the simple reason that the incentives that created this situation that we've been reporting on have not changed.
这些激励机制是,像东宾这样的大品牌实际上为其他品牌生产大量电池。
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And those incentives are you have large brands like East Pen that actually make lots of batteries under other brands.
所以,消费者不能去电池店说:“不要给我东宾的电池。”
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So, it's not as if, you know, a consumer can go off to the to the battery store and say, "Don't give me one of those East Pen batteries."
他们为其他品牌生产很多电池。
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There are lots of others that they make for other brands.
我们还知道,尼日利亚绝非唯一一个有大量绝望的人,他们为了今晚能有饭吃,会接受可怕污染的国家。
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We also know that Nigeria is hardly alone uh as being a country where there are large numbers of people who are desperate enough just to figure out how to get dinner on the table tonight that they will accept horrific pollution.
我的意思是,社区里的人们并非想要污染,他们对污染感到恐惧。
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I mean I mean not that the people in the communities want the pollution. They're horrified by the pollution.
但对于政策制定者和环境监管者来说,他们希望工厂得到清理。
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But in terms of the situation for the policy makers, for the environmental regulators, they would like the plants cleaned up.
但他们也意识到,如果他们施压过大,这个行业就会转移到其他地方,那里会有其他政府与需要铅和其他矿物的公司达成协议。
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But they're also cognizant that if they push too hard, this industry will shift somewhere else where some other government will cut a deal with the companies that need lead and other minerals.
这个行业往往就是这样运作的。
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That that's how this business tends to go.
我的意思是,我几十年来研究供应链案例的历史表明,当你得到一个公开的揭露,当你发现某个时尚品牌得知他们一直依赖的供应商操作危险,导致人们在火灾中丧生,或建筑物倒塌,或河流、饮用水被污染时。
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I mean, my history of looking at supply chain cases now going back decades is that, you know, when you get a public revelation, when you find out that say fashion brand learns that they've been relying on a supplier that's been playing so dangerously that people have died in a fire or in the collapse of a building or rivers or or drinking water being poisoned.
我的意思是,通常会发生的情况是,供应链变得更加复杂。
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I mean, what tends to happen is the supply chain gets even more complex.
零部件转移到其他地方,公司改头换面,也许打着安全的幌子,对吗?
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pieces shift somewhere else, companies change their names under the guise of safety perhaps, right?
比如有消费者压力,然后他们说我们要进行这些改革,但最终结果就是您所说的。
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Like there's consumer pressure and then they say we're going to make these reforms then the end result is what you're talking about.
没错。
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Correct.
道德回收的成本
我们姑且假设,就电池回收而言,每个参与者都希望以正确的方式行事。
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Let's just say for the sake of argument though that in this case in terms of battery recycling that every player involved wants to do this the right way.
他们希望制造安全的电池,并以环保的方式生产。
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They want to make a safe battery and make it in an environmentally friendly way.
那么,这种电池对最终买家来说,成本会增加多少呢?
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What would the increase in cost of that battery to the end buyer actually look like?
这是一个假设性问题。
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Well, it's a hypothetical.
这也是我们在报道这个故事时纠结的问题,我们得出的结论是没有令人满意的答案,因为没有电池会完全只使用来自一个国家的铅。
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It's one that we wrestled with in reporting this story and we concluded that there's no satisfying answer because no battery is going to be made exclusively with lead from one country or another.
所有铅最终都会混合在一起。
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It all basically ends up getting blended together.
但我们能得出的最佳估计是,你谈论的只是每美元几美分。
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But the best we could figure out is you're talking about, you know, pennies on the dollar.
假设链条中的每个参与者都将额外的成本转嫁给下一个参与者,最终消费者面临的只是一个单位数的美元数字。
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Assuming that every participant in the chain passes on their extra cost to the to the next player, you're talking about a singledigit dollar number to the consumer at the end of the day.
在美国,这是我们最好的猜测。
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In the US, that's our best guess.
这其中有很多假设,但肯定不是一笔巨大的金额。
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There's a lot of assumptions into that, but certainly not a large amount of money.
我认为可以公平地说,全球市场对“毒害尼日利亚整个村庄的代价是多少”这个问题的裁决是——不值那么多钱。
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And I think that it's fair to say that the [music] verdict of the global marketplace on the question of what's it worth to poison entire villages in Nigeria [music] is u not that much.
彼得,非常感谢。
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Peter, thank you [music] so much.
非常感谢邀请我,雷切尔。
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Thanks so much for having me, Rachel.
调查发布后的影响
在《纽约时报》联合调查发布后的几天里,尼日利亚官员再次关闭了奥伊乔地区的几家冶炼厂。
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In the days following publication of the Joint Times investigation, Nigerian officials once again closed down several smelters in the Oiji Joe region.
官员们还承诺联邦政府将展开新的调查,并表示将对当地居民进行额外的血液检测。
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Officials also promised new investigations from the federal government and said they would conduct additional blood testing of local residents.
其他新闻速览
以下是您今天还需要知道的其他新闻。
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Here's what else you need to know today.
周一,乌克兰总统弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基(Vladimir Zalinski)在巴黎与法国总统埃马纽埃尔·马克龙(Emanuel Macron)进行了数小时会晤。
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On Monday, [music] Ukrainian President Vladimir Zalinski met for hours with French President Emanuel Mcron in Paris.
此次会晤是争取欧洲盟友支持的闪电行动的一部分,正值一项由美国主导的结束与俄罗斯战争的计划谈判之际。
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The meeting was part of a blitz to shore up support from [music] European allies in the midst of negotiations over a US-led plan to end the war with Russia.
尽管马克龙重申了欧洲对乌克兰的承诺,但美国一直在加大对泽连斯基的压力,要求他同意一项协议,即使俄罗斯已表示反对该计划的一些提议。
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While Mcronone reiterated Europe's commitment to Ukraine, the United States has put increasing pressure on Zalinski to agree to a deal, even as Russia has signaled its opposition [music] to some of the plans proposals.
美国运输安全管理局(Transportation Security Administration, TSA: 负责美国机场和交通系统安全检查的联邦机构)宣布,从2月1日起,没有符合真实身份证(Real ID: 美国联邦政府为提高身份识别安全而制定的一项标准,要求州政府签发的驾照和身份证件符合特定安全要求)标准的身份证明文件的旅客,将需要支付45美元的费用才能乘坐飞机。
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And the Transportation Security Administration [music] announced that beginning February 1st, travelers without a Real ID compliant form of identification will have to pay a $45 fee to fly.
乘客可以在抵达机场前最多10天预付费用。
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Passengers can prepay the fee up to 10 days before they come to the airport.
许多旅客已经开始使用护照和其他被认为符合该计划的文件乘坐飞机。
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Many travelers have already begun flying with passports [music] and other documents considered compliant with the program.
美国运输安全管理局没有立即透露如何支付新费用以及该计划的其他细节。
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The TSA did not immediately reveal how [music] to pay the new fee and other details about the program.
本期节目由戴安娜·温(Diana Win)、安娜·福利(Anna Foley)和米歇尔·邦贾(Michelle Bonja)制作。
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Today's episode was produced by Diana [music] Win, Anna Foley, and Michelle Bonja.
克里斯·哈克塞尔(Chris Haxel)和迈克尔·贝努瓦(Michael Benois)担任编辑。
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It was edited by Chris Haxel and Michael Benois.
节目包含丹·鲍威尔(Dan Powell)的音乐,由艾丽莎·莫克斯利(Alyssa Moxley)进行工程处理。
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contains music by Dan Powell and was engineered by Alyssa [music] Moxley.
特别感谢威尔·菲茨吉布(Will Fitzgibbon)和芬巴尔·奥莱利(Finnbar O'Reilly)。
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Special thanks to Will Fitzgibbon and Finnbar O'Reilly.
《每日》节目到此结束。
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That's it for the Daily.
我是雷切尔·艾布拉姆斯。
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I'm Rachel Abrams.
明天见。
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See you tomorrow.