[Host]: Commuters, delivery drivers. A lot of people swear by e-bikes, but others are concerned they pose a safety risk. Now the province is looking to update the rules of the road. Michael Longfield is executive director of Cycle Toronto and fresh from a cycle himself to our studios, joins us here. How are you doing?

[Michael Longfield]: Great, thanks. Yeah. Nice bike ride here.

[Host]: All right. Well, I want to get a lay of the land first with our conversations about e-bike, what is currently considered an e-bike.

[Michael Longfield]: Yeah, it's actually quite a broad definition. And I think this is really one of the challenges that this proposal is looking to address right now within the provincial definition. You know, it's a vehicle that goes under 32km/h. It has a motor that's under 500W. It can look like a bicycle. It can look like a scooter. It can even look like a motorcycle. If it has some kind of pedals, though, it meets within this current rubric of an e-bike.

[Host]: And what are the current rules around where an e-bike can be ridden? Because that's a bit different.

[Michael Longfield]: Yeah it is, and it changes by municipality. So, you know, one municipality might have different rules than others, but of course, we're in Toronto, and broadly speaking, most e-bikes are allowed in most cycling infrastructure. Broadly speaking, there's some slight variations there, but that actually just creates a lot of confusion. And so yeah, ultimately what's kind of coming down the pipe might actually help clarify things a lot.

[Host]: So just to clarify, potentially is allowed in bike lanes and on the road, not on the sidewalks. Yes.

[Michael Longfield]: As nothing on the sidewalks.

[Host]: Exactly. There we go. Okay. Unless you're unless you're a kid riding a bicycle, no bikes on the sidewalk.

[Michael Longfield]: There you go.

[Host]: When it comes to being insured or licensed, is there anything currently that that that requires?

[Michael Longfield]: No, not if it's meeting again, this fairly broad criteria of what the province is considering an e-bike. So again, if it looks like a moped, it looks like a scooter, but it has pedals and is under 32km/h. Technically, you don't need licensing or insurance.

[Host]: For it. All right. Ontario's Ministry of Transportation recently proposed new e-bike regulations. First off, what do you think overall in terms of what they're proposing?

[Michael Longfield]: I mean, this might be a bit shocking given where cycle Toronto and we recently took the provincial government to court over its attempt to rip out bike lanes. But we're actually quite supportive of what the ministry is proposing here. I think it's a very good grounding in terms of helping, I think, both consumers and the general public and industry align on what is an e-bike.

[Host]: All right. And so what's the changes? What is the what would what would the definition of an e-bike look like under these?

[Michael Longfield]: Yeah. So some of the things would stay similar. The current speed limit of 32km/h, the current motor restriction to 500W. But one of the big differences they're proposing is actually including some basically some physical descriptors to better describe, say, an e-bike between an E moped or a low speed motorcycle. So within the new definitions, you know, an e-bike would require an adjustable saddle. It would require no footrest. It would specifically require working pedals and or a hand crank. And so with this it would better differentiate, you know, a lot of these moped style vehicles that currently do meet the definition, but would exclude them from the new definition of a so-called power assisted vehicle.

[Host]: And insurance as well.

[Michael Longfield]: So not insurance on, on the bicycle style ones. So, so things that would still qualify as power assisted vehicles, I.e. e-bikes would not require insurance, but those other things that are no longer. So the moped scooters, low speed motorcycles, those would potentially require a licensing and insurance. They would basically need to meet a federal standard for a motor vehicle.

[Host]: Okay. Now with that, you know, one of the things is we've seen a lot of these e-bikes over the years. Licence and insurance is quite expensive. And I am curious, what does that mean for gig workers who use e-bikes who are often precariously employed? What does that mean for them? Because this does set up sort of a two tier system in a way.

[Michael Longfield]: Yeah, it does. And I think one of the things that's good about the proposal is they are suggesting a kind of year long period before the enforcement would go into effect. So potentially gives people some time to either, you know, get that licensing, get that insurance or transition to a different style of vehicle. I do think that it's been a bit of the Wild West in this. And, you know, MTO has maybe been lagging behind where the industry has been. And, you know, a lot of people, especially gig workers, have bought vehicles in good faith. And, you know, certainly myself, I rely on, on food delivery. It's really important for local businesses. It's a big part of our economy. And so there is a potential downside here. But at the same time, the status quo was not tenable. And so I think the MTO moving the direction they are in proposing these regulations is probably the right way to move forward on this.

[Host]: Do you think people who are in this conversation right now, when it comes to e-bikes, are like, well, this doesn't really pertain to me. I don't really use bike lanes. I don't really use e-bikes. You know, I've had maybe perhaps some bad experiences, but really this changes a lot of things. As you mentioned, you know, you know, what people use in terms of food couriers, in terms of all of that, do we have a better, broader sense as to what sort of a ripple effect this will have?

[Michael Longfield]: I think it'll have a pretty big impact. You know, certainly e-bikes in themselves have really been a game changer, especially since the pandemic. You know, we talked about the fact that I biked here. I came on a bike share e-bike. You know, this trip wouldn't have been possible up Yonge Street. You know, that steep hill getting ready for the studio? You know, I probably wouldn't have done it on a conventional bike. And so it really can open up a lot of trips for people, people with disabilities, seniors as well, for a lot of folks as well, like an e-cargo bike can replace a car. It's not necessarily, you know, going to transition all your trips by bike, but it can really open up new possibilities. And so I think, you know, these regulations are really doing an important job of helping, you know, basically helping Toronto catch up to where the industry is and help unlock this for more people while again, ensuring it's clearer to consumers and end users what is or isn't an e-bike. I think a lot of the concern that we might hear, especially on both sides of the political spectrum, about, you know, this kind of like air quotes, bike menace. A lot of these vehicles are technically legal and are already meeting provincial standards. And so by tightening those standards and providing better regulatory clarity, I think it will make it more straightforward for all road users.

[Host]: Does that make enforcement a bit easier?

[Michael Longfield]: I think it does. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we found is and we've done this, you know, kind of quiz with elected officials, with police officers, even with gig workers, is sort of showing picture people, pictures of vehicles and saying, is this legal or not? And you actually can't tell by looking at things. A lot of things that look like motorcycles technically meet the standard of e-bikes, a lot of things that look like bicycles aren't legal either because they have much more powerful motors or much faster. So again, these types of regulations will make it a little bit easier to be able to look at something and know where it should go or not. And same thing too when you're buying things like knowing, I think right now people are buying things in good faith. The industry isn't very well regulated. I think that's something we need the federal government to step in on, but it'll help consumers as well, sort of know, like, oh, right. This is looks more like an e-bike. It's meeting these various criteria. I know I can be pretty confident I'm going to be able to use this on Toronto streets and sidewalks or not sidewalks and on bike lanes.

[Host]: Well, you talk about the quiz. I am curious what other things is, is, you know, cycle tio doing in sort of educating riders about e-bikes.

[Michael Longfield]: Yeah. So we've been doing some really great engagement sessions, working with the biking lawyer and bike brigade, having sessions with gig workers to kind of let them know about, you know, where their vehicle may or may not be legal, letting them know the rules of the road. The feedback on that's been really great. And I think for us, it's confirmed that, again, people aren't doing things to try to skirt the rules. It's that the rules themselves are quite vague and just relying on enforcement on the end user really isn't a solution. We need industry to be better aligned. We need the federal government involved. You know, one of the things too, that I think is really missing from the provincial proposal, our standards around battery safety standards, you know, there is a lot of concern about, you know, the risk of e-bikes on our roads. But the biggest danger from our perspective is around battery fires. I think Fire Chief Jessup has said it's one of the biggest causes of fires in Toronto, and it's really only the federal government that can provide that level of standards. And so Health Canada is currently doing some work around lithium battery safety standards that currently won't apply to bicycles. And so one of the things we're hoping the province will do is continue to work with the feds to provide those standards to e-bikes as well.

[Host]: Michael, I really appreciate it. This was quite insightful. Might get me on a on an e-bike one of these days. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

[Michael Longfield]: Thank you so much.