Kyra: I'm Kyra Blackwell.

Rosie: I'm Rosie Garren.

Kyra: And you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.

Rosie: Kyra, I'm going on a beach vacation. Soon.

Kyra: Oh, okay. Soon.

Rosie: And for the first time, I had this idea that I want to experiment with self-tanner.

Kyra: Do we need to take you to the hospital?

Rosie: Stay with me. Stay with me. I feel like I've been seeing it on Tik Tok. I've seen black women using it. And I never really thought that was a thing.

Kyra: Yeah. I hadn't either, to be honest. I also have been seeing this trend, especially with people who have darker skin tones using it and I've been scratching my head over it a little bit.

Rosie: I mean, I think there's more knowledge than ever around just how bad sun exposure is and obviously tanning beds gets folded into that.

Kyra: There are headlines galore about just the popularity of tanning among Gen Z, but again, I think it's also bumping up against this information about sun. Yeah, people want to be tanner, but they don't want to fry themselves. It's complicated, but that's why I'm really excited that we are actually bringing on one of Wire Cutters beauty writers. Her name is Ayana Redwood Crawford, and she's going to talk to us about self-tanners, the ones that you can do at home. Ayanna is very knowledgeable, and she really swears by them. So, we'll talk to her. Ayana, welcome.

Ayana: Hey, thank you. So happy to have you on today.

Kyra: Ayanna, we're talking about selftanners.

Ayana: Yes, we are.

Rosie: And I just have to address the elephant in the room.

Ayana: Big old elephant.

Rosie: Big old elephant is that we are three black people in this room talking about selftanners. I don't even know if these are for us. So, I'm hoping that you could answer this question.

Ayana: I am so excited to answer this question. All right, go ahead.

Ayana: So, yeah, they're for us, they're pretty much for most people. If you are as dark as me, audience, I am a deep rich brown. It's not going to necessarily tan me, but it is going to even out my skin tone and give me a glow.

Rosie: Should, cuz even between the three of us, we all have different skin tones. Should you have different expectations based on your skin tone for what self-tanner can do for you or will do for you? Like for instance, you said maybe you're going to get more of an even skin tone versus somebody with lighter skin might actually get something closer to a tan.

Ayana: Yeah. So, you know, you'd probably become like a tawny brown to a richer color, but it all depends on the shade that you get in whichever tanner you decide to use. It's usually like light, medium, deep. And then that will decide just how intense that tan becomes, just how deep it gets. Basically, when you reach for a tanner and you're trying to figure out what shade to use, it's not really based off of what your natural skin tone is. So, just because I am deep, I'm not always going to have to use a deep selftanner.

Rosie: It's not like color matching like foundation or something, right?

Ayana: It's actually about the type of tan that you want.

Kyra: Can we run it back just for a second? I want to know like what initially inspired the guide.

Ayana: I have always had this issue where I pretty much hate the sun. I don't like to be in it. And it's not because I don't want to get darker. It's because I burn no matter what. No matter how much I diligently put on sunscreen. It's just like if I'm out long enough, I'm going to burn somewhere and it's going to be painful for me in my skin. And so what happens or what happened to me was that my skin became very uneven. My hands, my forearms are a different color than my chest and my legs. My legs a different color than my face. It's a lot going on.

Kyra: a lot going on. Yeah, it's a lot going on over here.

Ayana: And I have always thought about, oh, maybe I'll get a spray tan just to like temporarily even things out, especially if I had something to go to and I wanted to show some skin. Uh, and I was just like, uh, I don't know about that. I don't think spray tans are for me.

Rosie: So, spray tans are different than self-tanning lotion.

Ayana: Oh, yeah. So, spray tan for me is what I initially knew. I didn't know that you can do this at home on your own. That just seemed like even more of I don't know this like new frontier.

Kyra: Yes. A new frontier. I was like, can you describe what the difference is? I still kind of don't really know.

Ayana: Yeah. So, the difference between going getting a spray tan professionally done and using a self tanner at home is the difference between going to a salon to get your hair dyed versus dyeing your hair at home with a box dye. It's the same active ingredient, which is DHA, or dihydroxy acetone that's making your skin brown, but it's just you're doing it yourself.

Rosie: So, selftanners are you're baking yourself with

Kyra: Yeah. How do they how do they work?

Ayana: Oh, it's called the Mayard reaction and it's really the it's like browning and cooking when you're browning a chicken. It's like sugars browning.

Rosie: Wait, explain explain.

Kyra: Like I'm five.

Rosie: Yeah, explain the mayard reaction.

Ayana: Okay, so DHA is a plantderived chemical. It's a sugar basically. And when you put it on your skin, it interacts with the amino acids that are on the surface of your skin. And once it starts to do that, it makes your skin brown. And then you just continue to let it brown and then you wash it off.

Rosie: Yes. Now, the reason why people tend to get really orange when they do this is if they let a tanner stay on their skin for too long before rinsing it off.

Rosie: So, back to your testing. When you did do your testing on self-tanners, you, I imagine, had a whole array of different types of of folks. How did you figure that out? How did you determine who you would have test these?

Ayana: Well, yeah. We definitely knew that we wanted darker skinned people. We wanted medium tan people and we wanted, you know, pale people. Since everyone can wear selftanner, we wanted to make sure they were represented in testing. And that was how I actually found out that our gradual tanner pick, the Jurgens, doesn't take 3 days to see. It actually takes a little bit longer, like up to 6 days to see on a medium tan to deeper skin toned person.

Rosie: Wait, so what exactly are gradual selftanners?

Ayana: Okay, so first of all, they contain a lower concentration of DHA, and they usually come in a lotion or liquid format, which is really, really hard to mess up putting on because you can put on exactly like a regular body lotion. And if for any reason you're like, "Oh, I put way too much on this arm than the other one." The concentration of DHA is so low that it's not super noticeable. And then the next day you can just put less on that arm.

Rosie: Yeah, it's buildable.

Ayana: Because they're buildable, that means you have to apply it for several consecutive days to get noticeably darker. Um, what's great about this is that it gives the wearer more control over how deep they go with the development of the color. M

Rosie: I'm curious. I assumed that self-tanner is synonymous with bronzer. Is that true?

Ayana: Well, bronzer is way more temporary. It is just, you know, something that's on your on the surface of your skin and then you rinse it off. DHA is also temporary, but lasts way longer from like 5 to 7 days.

Rosie: Got it. Are there bronzers that you can just use as a bronzer like for one day and then you just

Ayana: Sure. But that's like that's body makeup. the guide color that goes on. If you use a self-tanner that you know, if you pump it out and there's a color to it, that is a guide color and that is a temporary bronzer.

Rosie: And the purpose of having a guide color is to show the user just how much they're putting on and where they're putting it so that they're not putting way too much in one area.

Ayana: And so guide color is temporary. You leave it on while the DHA absorbs into your skin underneath for about 8 hours. Most foam formatted traditional tanners take about 8 hours. If you are deeper tone skin like me, I usually wait 10 hours before I rinse it off. And then you're supposed to rinse off that guide color and wait till the water runs clear in the shower. And then the DHA that's in, you know, that's absorbed into your skin, that top layer of your skin, it'll continue to brown and develop for about 24 hours after that.

Kyra: How is using self-tanner different than getting into a tanning bed, let's say?

Ayana: Well, a tanning bed has UV and UVA like

Kyra: UVB and UVA.

Ayana: UVB UV. Yeah. And that damages your skin and basically just as bad or maybe even worse than being in the sun.

Kyra: It's definitely worse.

Ayana: And Yeah. Yeah. And so I uh actually read from the American Academy of Dermatology Association and they just suggest using a sunless tanner instead. Yeah. A self tanner.

Rosie: So who are selftanners not for? People probably with active eczema with really reactive skin probably shouldn't use it.

Ayana: Or one of my sources, Alexis Granite, a dermatologist, she recommended putting a tanner in the crook of your elbow. Go through the regular rigomearroll of putting it on there, letting it develop, rinsing it off, and then keeping it on for about 72 hours to see if you have any type of reaction to it.

Kyra: Okay. When you're using a self-tanner, how long should you expect it to last?

Ayana: You should expect it to last from 5 to seven days.

Rosie: So, to recap, cuz we just learned a lot here, selftanners are better for you and your skin than just baking in the sun, and they're really good if you want to do it at home, too. So, you don't have to go to professional salon and get spray tanned. And it sounds like selftanners are really for everybody, no matter what shade you are. As long as you don't have a sensitive skin issue or you're not actively allergic to it, you could benefit from a selftanner if you're just looking to even your skin tone out or deepen your shade. Okay, so we're going to take a quick break and then when we're back, we're going to talk about best practices when it comes to application and maintenance, plus which selftanners Ayana recommends. Be right back.

Rosie: Welcome back. Now that we have a better idea of what selftanners are and who they're for, Anna, I would just love to talk about something that I find endlessly entertaining.

Ayana: Here we go.

Rosie: The application process. Come on. I mean, earlier you just said that you wear it for like 8 to 10 hours. And I just imagine you standing in a corner not trying to like get it on the walls of your sheets. So waiting for this thing to dry like paint. So can you just walk us through every detail of the application process for self tanners?

Ayana: Okay. All right. Well, first we made sure that we chose tanners that don't take forever to dry.

Rosie: Okay.

Ayana: And by forever, I mean takes longer than 10 minutes. With that, you want to have some play time with it, too. You want to be able to really get it in there. You want to be able to rub it in, make it look really nice and even, right? If it dries too fast, you won't be able to do that. So, first thing you want to do, take a shower, exfoliate. Whether you want to do that with a washcloth, a loofah, you're going to want to do that just because you want like a clean smooth canvas to work with because the way that self-tanner fades is that it will come off with the dead skin that naturally comes off of your body. That's the way it fades.

Ayana: So, after you do that, you're going to want to moisturize the driest parts of your body, which are your knees, your elbows, your hands, and your feet. I did talk to a spray tan artist who said that if you do already have dark spots on your body, any hyperpigmentation, any sunspots, you should also moisturize those areas as well. And you do that just to create this barrier because those porous rough spots of your body, they will absorb more DHA and then become darker.

Rosie: I see. And then that defeats the purpose of trying to even out your skin tone. Okay, that makes sense.

Ayana: Exactly. So, after you do all that moisturizing and showering and all that good stuff, then you're going to use a mitt or I know that Kyra, you hate the idea of using a mitt. Uh, you can also use a latex glove, which you also hate. Sorry. Um, but if you are allergic to latex, you can use a nitro glove. Um, and you are going to want to, you know, put the selftanner on the glove, then put it on your body, and then, uh, just apply it in circular motions. You're not using your hands.

Rosie: If you use your bare hands, please be sure to wash your hands immediately after so you're not walking around with orange palms.

Kyra: Okay. So, you put it on, it's dried, and you still have to wait 8 hours until you can rinse that off.

Ayana: Yes.

Kyra: And I know it's dry, but isn't there a risk of it transferring while you're walking around the house or whatever, like waiting for that timer to go off?

Ayana: When I was testing a bunch of these self tanners. I tried the overnight thing cuz like 8 to 10 hours that's me in bed. Perfect.

Rosie: But I happen to be a sweaty sleeper. So that is definitely going to transfer.

Ayana: And it also disrupts the DHA developing underneath if you sweat.

Kyra: Well, what are you going to do then?

Ayana: So I was like, well 8 to 10 hours, that's also my day. I can just go ahead and put it on. put on some loose dark clothing because just in case and then by the time I get home I can rinse it off. That's eight to 10 hours there.

Rosie: And don't hug anybody.

Ayana: No, you can hug someone. That's okay. Yeah, it definitely dries after about 10 minutes. So, you're you're going to be good.

Rosie: You mentioned how, you know, your arms can be a different color than your chest or maybe just your legs. If somebody's maybe thinking about doing part of their body, like would you recommend that or would you say that you should just go all in? A lot of people just put selftanner on their legs. I've heard and seen that a lot. For some people, they show more skin on the top and their legs don't see that much sun.

Kyra: I see.

Ayana: And so if they plan on showing their legs, they just want to put it on their legs. Also, you can use a gradual tanner. So you can gradually build up till it's the same color as the rest of your body.

Rosie: So it's not just like dark and then like regular just immediately.

Ayana: Yes. Yes. Exactly. So, the selftanner's on, you've let it sit in maybe over hours and you're good for at least 5 days, 5 to seven days.

Rosie: What are the things? You mentioned sweating at night as an example. What are the things you should be wary of to maintain the even nice tan glow that you've worked so hard for, so hard.

Ayana: So, whenever you're taking a shower, you're not going to want to use a washcloth or a loofah or an exfoliator at all.

Rosie: You can use soap, right?

Ayana: Well, you could. No, I would say no to soap. I'm so sorry, girl. Listen, use it on the parts that get sweaty. You know what I mean? Use it on the bits.

Rosie: Got it.

Ayana: Um, soap, not selftanner,

Rosie: right? Just to be crystal clear.

Ayana: So, yeah, that's what you're going to want to do when you get out of the shower. You're gonna pat yourself dry.

Rosie: Is this just for the first shower or is this for the entire length of the time you're trying to maintain this flow?

Ayana: This for the entire length. And you know, this is not something that you need to be putting on every week. I don't think you should. This is my opinion. Just because you're not exfoliating your body, you're not washing properly. And that can lead to a lot of weird skin stuff that you don't want. You might start breaking out. I mean, you're not washing and exfoliating for weeks on end if you're putting it on week after week.

Rosie: So, this is an intentional thing. Maybe for an occasion, maybe for a season.

Ayana: Yeah. I would suggest taking a few days to a week off in between applications so that you can be washing and exfoliating properly in between.

Rosie: But what happens like let's say you don't like the color that you are, maybe you're just tired of this high maintenance. How do you take it off?

Ayana: Oh, yeah. Well, you can always exfoliate. You can scrub and do all the things you're not supposed to do. And then there are things on the market that are used to remove selftanner. So, you can find one of those and use those.

Rosie: Can you use selftanner on your face?

Ayana: You can use selftanner on your face if it explicitly says so on the bottle. If it doesn't say you you can use it on your face, don't do it. These products are made with specific phes in mind and things that would work on your body and not your face. So, you wouldn't want something like this getting your eye.

Rosie: Can you use any of the pics in the guide on your face or no?

Ayana: Oh, yes. You can use the Norll on your face. That's the only one.

Rosie: That's the only one.

Kyra: Okay, Ayanna, we want to do a little rapid lightning round with you.

Ayana: Oh my god. Okay.

Kyra: So, we're going to give you a scenario and then you're going to tell us your best self-tanner recommendation for the situation and why.

Ayana: Okay.

Rosie: Yeah. Ready?

Ayana: All right. Let's go.

Rosie: Okay. Someone who's never used a selftanner before and doesn't read instructions well, what would you recommend for them?

Ayana: I would recommend our pick, the Jurgens Natural Glow Daily Moisturizer. It is a gradual tanner. You apply it the same way you would as a traditional body lotion and you don't have to do all the prep work that you need to do with a traditional format of self tanner.

Rosie: So you don't have to do the big exfoliation and the moisturizing.

Ayana: You do have to be clean, but you can after your shower you can apply it regularly. And it is a gradual build. So you're not going to see a super brown tan immediately. It takes 3 to 6 days to be able to see it based on your skin tone.

Rosie: How about someone who's going on a date that same day and there may potentially be some, you know,

Ayana: Okay. I would say

Rosie: contact.

Ayana: Okay. I would say uh to use an express tanner early in the morning. Get it out of the way.

Rosie: Is that a brand or what?

Ayana: No. An express tanner is a tanner that develops within 3 hours.

Rosie: Okay. So you're knowing what color you are before you go on this date.

Ayana: Yeah. So it could be like if you want it to be lighter, you can keep it on for an hour. If you want to be like medium deep, you're in 2 hours. If you want it to be very deep, three.

Rosie: Do you have a specific brand that you like?

Ayana: Oh, yes. Or I pick the Sanrope Express Tanner.

Rosie: Okay. What if you're someone who is going to the beach?

Ayana: Someone going to the beach. Well, I'll say that if you're preparing to go to the beach, and a couple of my colleagues have asked me this cuz they're like,

Rosie: "Oh, I'm about to go to Mexico. I want to look tan." They want to start off tan.

Ayana: They want to start off tan.

Rosie: Mhm.

Ayana: I would suggest to the person who is about to go on a beach vacation to use our Norell self-tanner. It is a regular traditional foam format selftanner that takes up to 8 hours to develop. So, if you're planning on a beach vacation, then you have enough time to let it develop, do what you need to do, and then go on your vacation afterwards.

Rosie: We haven't yet discussed how self-tanner works with in conjunction with reacts with sunscreen because I assume we all also need to be wearing sunscreen.

Ayana: You know what? You can wear sunscreen, but you just have to wait until after you have rinsed that top layer of temporary bronzer off.

Rosie: What about someone who is dark skinned and doesn't want to deepen their natural skin tone? They just want to make it look even. This is sort of what you were mentioning at the top of the episode.

Ayana: Well, they can use any selftanner they want. They just have to make sure that they are not letting it get too deep during the development. So, instead of letting it develop the full 8 hours, they can rinse it off earlier than that. If they're using a gradual tanner, they can stop at day three or four. They're like, "This is good. This is what I wanted. I don't want it to get any darker than this."

Rosie: What if someone has extremely pale skin and they find that selftanner just makes them orange?

Ayana: For that person, I would suggest a self-tanner that has a mix of DHA and arythrilos, which is another sugar that is used mostly in gradual tanners. Our gradual tanner pick has both of them combined. And when those two are combined, they do make a more natural brown color.

Rosie: The Jurgens.

Ayana: Mhm.

Rosie: How about someone who really really wants people to notice their tan?

Ayana: Oh, well, yeah. I would say use our express tanner pick. It has a higher concentration of DHA, which means you're going to get darker faster.

Rosie: Ayanna, thank you so much for joining us. This was really fun.

Ayana: Thanks for having me.

Rosie: I learned so much.

Ayana: I'm so glad.

Rosie: That's it for us. If you want to find out any more about Ayanna's reporting on self-tanners or any other topic on beauty, head to our website and we will link her guide in the show notes. Kyra, talk to you soon. Bye.

Rosie: The Wire Cutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Garin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Mattie Maziello and Nick Pitman. Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson.

Rosie: Original music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano, Alicia Bitut, Katherine Anderson, Rowan Nisto, and Diane Wong. Cliff Levy is Wire Cutters deputy publisher and general manager. Ben Fuman is Wire Cutters editorinchief.

Kyra: I'm Kyra Blackwell

Rosie: and I'm Rosie Garin. Thanks for listening.