Eric Bombino: Neo-Nazi groups, ISIS, Qinon, they may not seem to have much in common, but they all promise connection, community, purpose. Are those things in short supply today? And if so, are we living in a world that's more and more likely to produce extremists? Rundown producer Eric Bombino tackles those questions and more with extremism researcher Amarnath Amarasingam.

Eric Bombino: I want to thank uh the delightful Amarnath Amarasingam for coming to hang out in our little our little dungeon here. Thanks for coming.

Amarnath Amarasingam: Thanks for having me. It's good to be back.

Eric Bombino: Uh he is a professor in the school of religion and is cross-appointed to the department of political studies at Queens University. So we're going to talk uh all things extremism today. But the first thing I wanted to start with is I think at the tippy top for folks which is why why would someone uh pack their bags, fly to Syria and fight for ISIS? Why would someone join an extremist group? What's the allure or the appeal? What does it offer them? So, let's uh let's start there. What's the first thing we should put on the table when it comes to understanding the the appeal of extremism?

Amarnath Amarasingam: Well, I think a lot of people have grievances, right? There they might uh have economic grievances, social grievances, cultural grievances. Um but not all of that will immediately translate to being part of an extremist group or even finding some of these groups attractive. I think that's where the ideology comes and does a little bit of work, right? The what ideology does is it tends to interpret grievances for you uh to show the to answer a few pivotal questions. You know, it's great that I'm struggling or something's happened to me economically, culturally, but who is responsible? What do I do about it? And and what's required of me personally to do it, right? And and so that it it it ideology gives grievance, sense of purpose, sense of meaning. Um and and I think that that's kind of at the base of it. Um across different groups that we've all looked at, you know, the Islamic State, al-Qaeda, the far right.

Eric Bombino: So there is this quest for meaning that that is one big part of this. Is that fair to say?

Amarnath Amarasingam: Yeah. I mean, a lot of people say quest for meaning. Um but it it's been said so many times that it sometimes feels like it's losing.

Eric Bombino: What does it mean? Yes.

Amarnath Amarasingam: Like but that is the fundamental driver for a lot of people, right? I think it is um you you get to a point where uh just everyday occurrences in life um aren't answering the more deeper questions um in your life and and being part of these movements are is very exciting, very revolutionary uh very utopian um uh and and and so it it does infuse kind of the boredom of everyday life with

Eric Bombino: with a sense of purpose, right? and and and that but that has to kind of be grounded in something that you're feeling in terms of grievances and loss. Otherwise, it tends to go nowhere.

Amarnath Amarasingam: Um it has to be based in this idea that um either some my people's culture has been taken away, my people's rights have been taken away. Um socioeconomic damage has been done to me and and my group, my inroup um and then all of that has to be reinterpreted uh with with the with the use of ideology to kind of push people um into some of these movements.

Eric Bombino: You also get a bunch of buddies. you get a you get a a ready-made community. Is that a is that a big part of this? People are feeling lonely and there's a need for community.