序言:重温爱的故事
主持人安娜·马丁:大家好,我是安娜。今天我想重温我最喜欢的一集。我们大约在一年前录制了这一集,我至今仍常常想起它。请务必听到最后,因为我们为大家准备了一个非常甜蜜的更新。
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Hey everyone, it's Anna. All right, today I want to bring back one of my favorite episodes. We recorded this almost a year ago and I still think about it all the time. Make sure you listen all the way to the end because we've got a very sweet update for you.
主持人安娜·马丁:爱现在,坠入爱河。我爱比任何事物都更强大的爱。为了爱,我爱你胜过一切。仍然有很多爱。
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>> Love now and fall in love. I love >> love stronger than anything. >> For the love of love >> and I love you more than anything. There's still a lot of love.
主持人安娜·马丁:来自《纽约时报》,我是安娜·马丁。这里是**《摩登情爱》**(Modern Love: 《纽约时报》的著名情感专栏)。每周,我们都会为您带来受《摩登情爱》专栏启发的故事。我们谈论爱情、欲望、心碎以及人际关系中的种种混乱。
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[music] >> From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Each week, we bring you stories inspired by the Modern Love column. [music] We talk about love, lust, heartbreak, and all the messiness of relationships.
童年梦想与初次心碎
主持人安娜·马丁:当克莱尔·科里还是个小女孩时,她在蒙大拿州的一个农场长大,梦想着坠入爱河。
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When Claire Corey was a young girl growing up on a farm in Montana, she dreamed about falling in love.
克莱尔·科里:我们住在一个单排拖车里。有点拥挤,所以我睡在沙发上,我常常看着窗外美丽的满月,我会看着月亮划过天空。而我,作为一个无可救药的浪漫主义孩子,我曾幻想,在那个同一月亮下的某个地方,有属于我的男人。
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We lived in a single wide trailer. It was a little bit crowded, so I slept on the couch and I would often look out the window at the full moon and it's very beautiful and I would watch the moon sail across the sky. And me being the hopeless, romantic child that I was, I envisioned that somewhere out there under that same moon was the man for me.
主持人安娜·马丁:大学毕业后不久,克莱尔订婚了。但在婚礼前夕,她的未婚夫取消了婚约。
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[music] Just after she graduated college, Clare got engaged. But then right before the wedding, [music] her fianceé called it off.
主持人安娜·马丁:在那之后,她花了数年,甚至数十年,试图维系各种关系。但没有一段成功。所以最终,她不再为此烦恼,决定专注于自己的事业。在她50岁生日后,她回顾自己的人生,感到很幸福。
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After that, she spent years, decades [music] even, trying to make various relationships work. But none of them did. So eventually, she stopped worrying about it and decided to focus on her career. After her 50th birthday, she looked back on her life and felt happy.
克莱尔·科里:你知道,你会想:“哇,我的人生已经走了很长一段路,而且还有很长的路要走。”
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You know, you think, "Wow, I've come a long way in life and I still have a long way to go."
主持人安娜·马丁:这种感觉促使克莱尔给《摩登情爱》专栏写信,说她终于坠入爱河,但不是和某个男人。相反,那是对生命本身的爱。她以为自己的爱情故事可能已经结束了。但随后,发生了一系列最不可思议、最离奇的事件。其中一些离奇事件令人恐惧。她的健康状况急剧恶化。但有些事情却美得超乎她的想象。今天,我们为您讲述克莱尔爱情故事的其余部分。请继续关注我们。
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>> [music] That feeling led Clare to write into the modern love column, saying she'd finally fallen in love, but not with some guy. [music] Instead, it was a love for life itself. She thought maybe her love story was over. But then the most improbable, bizarre series of events occurred. Some of those bizarre events were scary. Her health took a dramatic turn. But some [music] were beautiful beyond anything she could have ever imagined. [music] Today, we tell you the rest of Claire's love story. Stick with [music] us.
早期浪漫与“魔法”的缺失
主持人安娜·马丁:克莱尔·科里,欢迎来到《摩登情爱》。
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>> [music] Claire Corey, welcome to Modern Love.
克莱尔·科里:非常感谢,我真的很感谢这次机会。
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Thank you so much and I really appreciate this opportunity.
主持人安娜·马丁:克莱尔,我们今天来谈谈你的爱情故事。其中有曲折,有转折,事情并没有如你所愿。但我想从头开始。当你还是个孩子的时候,你梦想着坠入爱河。请为我描绘一下那幅画面。
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So Claire, we're here to talk about your love story. There are twists, there are turns, things do not go as you expect. But I want to start at the beginning. When you were a kid growing up, you dreamed about falling in love. Paint a picture of that for me.
克莱尔·科里:是的。我是七个孩子中最大的,我们在蒙大拿州的一个小农场长大。所以我记得在那些早年,很多浪漫的想法在我脑海中盘旋。我和我妹妹,我们骑着我们用树枝做的假马,基本上就是我们的木马。
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>> Yeah. So, um I'm the oldest of seven children and um we grew up on a little farm in Montana. So, I remember a lot of thoughts of romance rolling through my brain in those early years. And um my sister and I, we were out on our our fake horses, you know, and that we had made out of sticks, our stick horses basically,
主持人安娜·马丁:当然。所以我们俩都有丈夫陪伴着。我的叫吉姆,她的叫史蒂夫。所以我只是想象有一天,我会和吉姆一起开着卡车四处兜风,我们会过上幸福快乐的生活。
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>> of course. And so we both had husbands along for the ride. And uh um mine was Jim and hers was Steve. And so I just imagined that one day, you know, I was going to be riding around in a truck with Jim and we were going to have a happily ever after. [laughter]
主持人安娜·马丁:我的意思是,我知道多年后,当你20多岁的时候,你确实和一位男士短暂订婚了。他的名字不叫吉姆。他的名字叫罗杰。但那次订婚没有成功。告诉我,你爱罗杰什么?
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I mean, I I I know that years later when you were in your 20s, you did have a brief engagement to a man. His name was not Jim. His name was Roger. But that engagement didn't work out. Tell me, what did you love about Roger?
克莱尔·科里:哦,罗杰真是个有趣的人。他总是笑,总是乐于冒险。他非常幽默,我们从事的领域非常不同。他在工程领域,我在心理学领域,但我们互相支持着度过了研究生院。所以,你知道,我以为我们在一起真的很好。我们非常稳固。你知道,我相信我们会一起变老。
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Oh, Roger was just a ton of fun. He was always laughing and he was always up for adventure. Um, he was very funny and we were in very different fields. He's in engineering and I was in psychology, but we supported one another through grad school. And so, um, you know, I thought I felt like we were really good together. We were really solid. You know, I I believe that we would grow old together.
主持人安娜·马丁:这种确定性从何而来?
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>> Where did that certainty come from?
克莱尔·科里:好问题,因为显然我错了。我们的婚礼定在五月,我们花了很多时间准备。所以我们一切都安排好了,三月底,罗杰半夜醒来,他说:“我不能这样做。”我说:“你什么意思,你不能做什么?”他说:“嗯,你知道,我不能结婚。我不能举行这个婚礼。”那开始了很多,我们姑且称之为痛苦的讨论,关于为什么。我从来没有得到一个真正好的答案,直到一年后,我们在公园里见面,因为我当时要去卖那件婚纱。我实际上最后把它送给了别人,但我们在公园里见面,我说:“你想看看那件婚纱吗?”你知道,所以我把婚纱拿出来,他说:“哦,天哪。”他说:“它太美了。”他说:“你知道我们缺少什么吗?”我说:“不知道。”他说:“我们缺少魔法。我们没有魔法。”
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>> Good question, because apparently I was wrong. [laughter] Um, so our wedding was scheduled in May and we had spent a lot of time um preparing for that. And so we had everything lined up and at the end of March, Roger woke up in the middle of the night and he said, "I can't do this." I said, 'What do you mean you can't do what?' And he said, 'Well, you know, I I can't get married. I can't go through with this wedding. And that began a whole lot of uh shall we say uh painful discussions about why. And I never got a really good answer as to why um until a year later when we actually met in a park because [snorts] I was going to um I was going to sell the dress. I I I actually ended up giving it to somebody, but we met in a park and I said, "Do you want to see the dress?" You know, and so I pulled the dress out and um and he said, "Oh my gosh." He said, "It's so beautiful." And he said, "Do you know what we were missing?" And I was like, "No." And he said, "We were missing the magic. We didn't have the magic."
主持人安娜·马丁:当他说我们缺少魔法时,你明白他的意思吗?你认同吗?
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Did you know what he meant when he said we were missing the magic? Did that track for you?
克莱尔·科里:在某种程度上,是的。我的意思是,在某种程度上,我仍然试图理解到底出了什么问题。但是的,我确实明白,因为在那段时间里,我实际上已经遇到了唐。
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>> It it did. I um to some degree, yes. I mean, to some degree, I was still trying to understand what had gone wrong. But yeah, I I did um because [laughter] in between that time, I actually had met Don.
主持人安娜·马丁:好的。唐是谁?他是谁?
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>> Okay. Who's Don? Who's he?
克莱尔·科里:我去参加了一个培训,培训师是一个名叫唐的男人。所以我记得我是一个害羞的人,但我确实在培训中走上前去问他一个问题,我们进行了一次简短的谈话,我没怎么在意,但我当时想:“哇,那真是个很酷的家伙。”但我想那次培训持续了两天,所以当培训结束时,我记得他对我说了一些话,他说:“嘿,你什么时候想一起吃晚饭吗?”我们有很多共同点。我们在相似的领域工作。我们之间有一种非常深刻的联系。我经常对人们说,那是我生命中最美好的日子。
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>> So, I went to a training and the trainer was a man named Don. And so I remember I'm a shy person, but I did approach him at the training to ask him a question about something and we had a brief little conversation and I I didn't think much of it, but I thought, "Well, wow, that's a really cool guy." But um I think it was the training was a couple days and so when the training ended, I remember he said something to me and and he said, "Hey, do you want to um get together for dinner sometime?" And we had a lot in common. We work in similar fields. We just had a very deep connection. And I've often said to people that it was the best days of my life.
主持人安娜·马丁:当这一切发生时你在想什么?你觉得那些日子是最美好的吗?
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>> And what were you thinking as that was happening? Did you feel like those were the best days?
克莱尔·科里:我对自己说:“哦,现在我明白了。这就是为什么和罗杰的关系没有成功,因为实际上真正适合我的人,那个真正属于我的人还在外面。我只是还没有遇到他。”所以那段浪漫就这样开始了,那是一段美好的浪漫,但也是一段短暂的浪漫。
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What I thought to myself was, "Oh, now I understand. This is why the relationship with Roger didn't work out because actually the real person for me, the real the man who really was the one for me was still out there. and I just hadn't met him yet. And so that's how that uh romance began, which was a wonderful romance, but was also a brief romance.
主持人安娜·马丁:你能告诉我它为什么结束吗?你们为什么不再联系或见面了?
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>> Can you tell me why it ended? Why did you guys stop being in contact or seeing each other?
克莱尔·科里:它被很多事情复杂化了。你知道,他经常出差,我有我的工作,所以它基本上就结束了,你知道,因为缺乏沟通和信件,你知道,这又是在电子邮件和手机出现之前的日子。所以我记得给他写了一封信,说我有多受伤,然后我非常沮丧。
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>> It was complicated by a lot of things. you know, he was traveling a lot and I had my job and um so it it ended basically but you know by lack of communication and um letters you know again this is in the days before email and cell phones and that kind of thing. So I remember writing him a letter and saying how hurt that I was and um I then was very depressed. [laughter]
主持人安娜·马丁:你当时有没有尝试重新开始约会,或者那根本不是你的优先事项?
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Did you try to get back out there dating wise at this time or was that not at all a priority?
克莱尔·科里:不,不是。我当时太心碎了,甚至无法考虑那些。
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>> No, it was not. I was way too brokenhearted um
主持人安娜·马丁:甚至无法考虑那些。你知道,我以为我找到了罗杰关系失败的全部原因的答案。而现在我真的找到了一段充满魔力的关系。然后它结束了,我真的觉得这种事怎么会发生在我身上两次?这两次心碎相对而言如此接近,几乎是接踵而至。
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>> to even think about that. And you know, here I thought that I had found the answer to the whole reason why my relationship with Roger hadn't worked out. And now I really had found a relationship that was magical. And then it ended and I really felt like how could this happen to me twice? These two heartbreaks relatively close to each other almost back to back in the in the grand scheme.
主持人安娜·马丁:你觉得你的心变硬了吗?你是不是觉得就这样了,我不会再这样做了,不值得?
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Did you feel your heart harden? Were you like that's it. I'm I'm not doing this anymore. It's not worth it.
克莱尔·科里:我想说当时没有,我还没有准备好放弃。大概又过了一十年左右,你知道,在那些年里,我生命中确实有一些男人,他们真的是好男人,但关系没有持续。我想说,也许到我40多岁的时候,我真的开始问自己:
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I would say at that time no I was not ready to be done. It took probably another decade or so, you know, and in the intervening years, you know, I did have some men in my life who were truly good men and but the relationships didn't last. I would say maybe by the time I was in my mid4s and I really started asking myself,
克莱尔·科里:你到底想在这里做什么?你知道,回顾过去,我可以看到我的生活在那时改变了轨道。
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>> what are you trying to do here? you know, um, looking back, I can see that my life shifted tracks at that time
克莱尔·科里:从一个关于建立婚姻、家庭和未来的未来,转向更多地成为一个事业型的人,专注于我的事业,而不是那么多地专注于人际关系。嗯。
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>> from a future that was about creating marriage and a family and a home to my being more of a career person, focused on my career and not so much a relationship. Hm.
拥抱单身与热爱生命
主持人安娜·马丁:你当时对自己说了些什么,让你对这种新的未来版本感到满意?这种你不会找到伴侣的版本。它是如何变得可以接受的?
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>> What were some of the things you were telling yourself that made you okay with this new version of your future? This version where you wouldn't find someone. How did it become all right?
克莱尔·科里:嗯,因为我不得不问自己:
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>> Well, because I had to ask myself,
克莱尔·科里:你的生活中缺少什么?你知道,我生活中有很多美好的事物,我的生活过得很好。是的,我心里确实有一个空缺,或者说我心里有一个空位,我觉得一段关系会填补它,但我想,你的生活中真的缺少什么吗?
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>> what are you missing in your life? You're, you know, I have a lot of good things in my life and my life is going along very well. And yeah, I sort of had this empty spot in my heart or this empty place in my heart where I felt like a relationship would fill it up, but I thought, is something really missing in your life?
克莱尔·科里:当我开始环顾四周时,我想,我对自己的现状和我是谁感到非常满足。不,真的什么都不缺。感觉我多年来一直在撞墙,试图弄清楚如何让这种关系的事情发生。在某个时候你会想,等一下,你为什么总是撞墙?你知道,这真的值得吗?当你不再撞墙时,你错过了什么?嗯,你错过了生活。你错过了生命本身。
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>> And as I started looking around, I thought, I'm very content with where I am and and who I am. And no, there's really nothing missing at all. And it felt like I had been beating my head against a wall for years trying to figure out how to make this relationship thing happen. And at some point you think, wait a minute, why are you beating your head all the time? You know, is this really worth it? And what are you missing when you're not beating your head? And well, you're missing living. You're missing life itself.
主持人安娜·马丁:但你有没有感到孤独?
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>> Did Did you ever feel lonely, though?
克莱尔·科里:不。真的吗?真的。是的,我从未感到孤独。也许那是因为我有很多兄弟姐妹和朋友。不,我没有感到孤独。我是否想念生命中有一个浪漫伴侣?是的。
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>> No. [clears throat] Really? Really? Yeah, I've never felt lonely. And maybe that's because I have a lot of siblings and and friends and things. No, I did not feel lonely. Did I miss having a romantic partner in my life? Yes.
主持人安娜·马丁:嗯。
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>> Huh.
克莱尔·科里:你知道,我只是想澄清,这不是一个容易的过程。我放下的每一样东西都留下了抓痕。所以,嗯,我可以说,嗯,这种对一段充实浪漫关系的渴望,上面布满了抓痕。它被撕成了碎片,我才能放手。是的。所以是的。
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>> You know, and I just want to, you know, be clear that this was not an easy process. [snorts] Everything I let go of has claw marks all over it. So, um, I can say that, um, this was this idea of a fulfilling romantic relationship had claw [laughter] marks all over it. It was clawed to pieces um before I could let go of it. Yeah. [laughter] So yeah.
主持人安娜·马丁:当你真的放下了这个带着抓痕的东西时,它是否让你感到解放?
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>> And when you did let this claw marked thing go, was it liberating?
克莱尔·科里:是的。绝对是。我意识到这其中有一种自由,而且我确实感到解放,因为我想,嘿,我不需要寻找任何人。但是把希望放回篮子里并盖上盖子是很难的。希望,拥有浪漫的希望,拥有我一直梦想的那种充实关系的希望。我只是把它塞进篮子里,盖上盖子,但每隔一段时间,希望就会冒出来,你知道,它会从篮子里探出头来向我招手。我就会说:“回去!盖上!”当你达到这种与单身生活和解的境地,把对浪漫伴侣的希望放进篮子里,你知道,你当时有没有回顾自己的人生并进行评估?如果回顾了,你看到了什么?
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>> Yeah. Absolutely. And I realized that there is a freedom in that and that um I I did feel liberated and because I'm like, hey, I don't need to be looking for anybody. And and but it was hard to put hope back in the basket and shut the basket. hope, hope of having a romance, hope of having um that fulfilling relationship that I'd always dreamed of. And I just stuffed it in the basket, shut the lid, and but every now [laughter] and again, you know, hope it just keeps coming and it would uh, you know, stick its head out of the basket and be waving at me. I'm like, "Get back in there. Shut that thing." when you hit this kind of coming to terms with being single for the rest of your life, kind of putting hope in the basket for the rest of your life, this hope for a romantic partner, you know, did you take a look back on your life at this at that point and and assess it? And if so, what did you see?
克莱尔·科里:嗯,我记得我50岁那年也是我第一次去欧洲旅行。我的哥哥和他的妻子住在德国,我和妈妈去了欧洲。那是我一直以来的梦想。我记得当时我想,你知道,我的生活非常充实。
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>> Well, I remember the year that I turned 50 was also the first time I ever traveled to Europe. And um my brother and his wife were living in Germany and my mom and I went to Europe. And that was [clears throat] a a dream that I'd always had. And I remember thinking that, you know, my life was very full.
克莱尔·科里:一切都很好。我期待着一个充满无限可能性的未来。你知道,不一定是浪漫的可能,因为希望,你知道,希望还在篮子里。好吧。但是一个关于继续工作的未来,你知道,总有一天我会退休,那时我将做什么,你知道,我为自己设定了目标,还清我的房子,诸如此类的事情。
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>> Things were good. And I was looking forward to a future that, you know, that seemed wide open with possibility. You know, not the possibility necessarily cuz again, hope is, you know, stay in the basket hope. All right. And um but a future of you know continuing to work and you know someday I was going to you know retire and what was I going to do then and you know I had goals for myself pay off my house you know those kinds of things.
直面癌症:生命的收缩与爱
主持人安娜·马丁:50岁是一个美好的时光,然后就在你52岁之后,你发现自己患上了一种罕见的乳腺癌。
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>> 50 was a beautiful time >> and then just after you turned 52 >> you found out you have a rare type of breast cancer.
克莱尔·科里:是的。
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>> Yes.
主持人安娜·马丁:那一刻对你来说是什么样的?
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What was that moment like for you?
克莱尔·科里:嗯,它永远改变了你的生活。毫无疑问。嗯,它是最具侵袭性的乳腺癌形式。它被称为炎性乳腺癌(Inflammatory Breast Cancer: 一种罕见且侵袭性强的乳腺癌)。所以,我当时就知道我的生命正在收缩。发生的事情是,我的生活从展望未来十年甚至更久,变成了活在当下,一天一天地过。
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>> Um, well, it changes your life forever. There's no doubt about it. Um, it's the most aggressive form of breast cancer. It's called inflammatory breast cancer. And so, I knew then that my life was contracting. And what happened was my life went from looking a decade or more ahead to looking a day at a time. [music]
主持人安娜·马丁:克莱尔,当你得到这个诊断时,它为你改变了什么?
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>> [music] Claire, when [music] you got this diagnosis, what did that change for you?
克莱尔·科里:你知道,这真的很有趣,因为我学到了很多关于我自己的东西。你真的不知道你会如何反应,直到那些情况发生。所以我对自己说了几件事。嗯,我只会继续工作,直到我不能再工作为止,我只会继续锻炼,直到我不能再锻炼为止,我只会继续做我正在做的事情,直到我不能再做为止。所以,你知道,他们安排化疗的方式是让你的休息日落在周末。所以我能够继续工作,我会去化疗,然后去工作,然后,你知道,周末休息,到周日下午,我又恢复了。
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>> You know, it's really interesting because I learned a lot about myself. You really don't know how you'll react until those situations happened. So, I said a couple things to myself. Well, I'm just going to keep working until I can't anymore, and I'm going to keep exercising until I can't anymore, and I'll just keep doing and what I'm doing until I can't anymore. So, [snorts] you know, um they scheduled chemo in such a way that um your down days would be on the weekend. So, I was able to continue working and uh I'd go to chemo and go to work and then, you know, come down on the weekend and get by Sunday afternoon, I was coming back up.
主持人安娜·马丁:我的意思是,你把这一切说得好像只是例行公事,你知道,我做这个,我做那个,但这其中一定有艰难的部分。
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I mean, you're saying all of this like it's just a routine, you know, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, but there had to be hard parts of this.
克莱尔·科里:哦,是的。它有艰难的部分。炎性乳腺癌是一种野兽。它是一个挑战。我要说的是,炎性乳腺癌会使你的乳房肿大。癌症会使乳房变成紫色。它像石头一样硬。我能感觉到它变得坚硬。它很丑陋,你每天都必须带着它生活。所以你开始意识到,今天就是你所拥有的一切。如果今天就是我所拥有的一切,那么我最好把今天过好,因为我不会放弃我现在所拥有的一切。所以发生的事情是,我意识到我爱上了生命本身。
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>> Oh, yeah. There are hard parts of it. Um, inflammatory breast cancer is a beast. It's a challenge. And I will say this, inflammatory breast cancer, um, your breast enlarges. Um, the cancer turns the breast purple. It was hard as a rock. Um, I could feel it turning hard. It's ugly and you have to walk around with it every single day. And so you start to realize that today is all that you've got. And if today is all that I've got, then I damn well better make this a good day [snorts] because I'm not giving up what I got right now. And so what happened is that I realized that I have fallen in love with life itself.
克莱尔·科里:我记得我得知自己进展到四期转移性乳腺癌(Stage 4 Metastatic Breast Cancer: 癌症已扩散到身体其他部位的晚期阶段)的那一天。我回到家,打开家门,环顾我所有的财产,我想:“哇,总得有人进来把这些东西都送走。”所以,嗯,我开始环顾我将要错过的一切。我想:“哇,我真的会错过那个日出。我会错过那个日落。我会错过工作中的同事。我会错过我的侄女和侄子长大。这对我来说仍然很难。”
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And I remember the day that I found out that I had progressed to stage four. I came home and I opened the door to my house and I looked around at all my possessions and I thought, "Wow, somebody's going to have to come [clears throat] in and give all of these things away." And so, um, I started to look around at all the things that I was going to miss. And I thought, "Wow, I'm really going to miss that sunrise. I'm going to miss that sunset. going to miss my colleagues at work. I'm going to miss my nieces and nephews growing up. That's still real hard one for me.
克莱尔·科里:我会错过这些日常时刻,比如散步时看到一朵美丽的花,遇到某人,很多很多这样的事情。我有一个朋友也被诊断出患有炎性乳腺癌,她现在已经去世了。但她对我说:“如果我能回到过去改变这一切,我也不会。”她说:“它给了我太多。”我哭着说:“你怎么能这么说?我肯定我永远不会有那种感觉。”但如果我能回到过去,我不会改变它。它给了我太多。它让我对生命有了感激。你知道,我九月份出院了,由于各种原因,他们不让我洗澡,哦,天哪,我回到家,跳进淋浴间,我能够开车去上班。
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I'm going to miss just these everyday moments of where you're, you know, taking a walk and there's a beautiful flower, you run into somebody, just so many things like that. I had a friend who was diagnosed with inflammatory breast cancer and she's passed away now. But she said to me, "If I could turn back time and change this, I wouldn't." [clears throat] She said, "It's given me too much." And I'm crying and crying and saying, "How can you say that? I'm sure I'll never feel that way. But if I could turn back time, I wouldn't change it. It's given me too much. It's given me an appreciation for life. you know, I got out of the hospital in in uh September and for various reasons, they hadn't let me take a shower and uh oh my god, I came home, I jumped in the shower, I was able to get in my car and drive my car to work.
主持人安娜·马丁:嗯。
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>> Mhm.
克莱尔·科里:我想:“这是我生命中最美好的日子之一,你知道,我还在通勤。”
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>> And I thought, "This is one of the best days of my life, [laughter] you know, and I'm commute."
主持人安娜·马丁:是的。嗯。是的。所以,我并不是说我不会感到沮丧、不安或悲伤,因为我会。但我对知道我的生命会结束这件事变得更加平静。但这同时也给了我自由,让我知道我有多爱这个生命,我有多爱活着,我愿意用我所拥有的一切去为之奋斗。嗯,因为我太爱它了。
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>> Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. And so I it's not like I don't get frustrated or upset or sad about things because I do. But I've become more at peace with knowing that my life will end. But that also gives me the freedom to know how much I love this life and how much I love being alive and I'm willing to fight for it with all I got. Um because I just I love it so much.
意想不到的重逢:旧爱归来
主持人安娜·马丁:当我们回来时,克莱尔的生活发生了完全意想不到的转变,走向了浪漫。请继续关注我们。
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>> [music] When we come back, Claire's life takes a totally unexpected turn towards romance. [music] Stay with us. [music]
主持人安娜·马丁:克莱尔,在你30多岁和40多岁的时候,你一直希望坠入爱河。然后在你50多岁的时候,你面临着绝症。听起来你确实找到了爱,只是方式出乎意料。你找到了对生命的热爱。我觉得我现在都能看到标题了。就像“女人爱上生命”,这会是你故事一个美丽的结局,但这不是你故事的结局,对吗?
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>> [music] Claire, all through your 30s and 40s, you were hoping you'd fall in love. And then in your 50s, you're facing terminal cancer. And it sounds like you did find love, just not how you expected. You found this love for life. And I feel like I can see the headline now. It's like woman falls in love with life which would be a beautiful end to your story except it's not the end to your story right
克莱尔·科里:是的,没错。所以我的心完全是满的,我想说的是,因为我找到了对生命的热爱,但在我生命中最意想不到的时刻,当我对自己身体感觉不好,我无法想象任何人会觉得我有吸引力,当然是作为浪漫伴侣。突然间,非常出乎意料地,我再次找到了浪漫。而那个人恰好是唐。他就是我们之前听说过的那个人。唐。
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>> yes that is correct so my heart was completely full I want to say that >> because I have found a love for life but at the most unexpected time in my life when I don't feel good about my body and I cannot imagine that anybody is going to find me attractive is certainly as a romantic partner Suddenly and very unexpectedly, I did find romance again. And it happened to be Don. It happened to be a guy we've heard about before. Don, [laughter]
主持人安娜·马丁:提醒我们,唐对你来说是谁?
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>> remind us who Don is to you.
克莱尔·科里:所以,唐是我27年前有过一段关系的人,当它结束时我完全心碎了,但我已经继续前行,并且与此和解了。是的。
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>> So, Don was a person that I had a relationship with 27 years ago [laughter] >> and I was completely heartbroken when it ended, but I had gone on and, you know, made my peace with that. Yeah.
克莱尔·科里:是的,你知道,我是一个总是和人保持朋友关系的人,所以我们在相似的领域工作,我们彼此在对方的圈子里,但我们不怎么说话。也许一年几次。我确实记得我发现自己得了癌症时给他打了电话,让他知道。
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>> And yeah, and you know, I'm a kind of person who, you know, always stays friends with people and so we work in similar fields and we were in one another's orbit, but we didn't talk very much. Maybe a couple times a year. I do remember I called him when I found out that I had cancer and let him know.
主持人安娜·马丁:那么唐是什么时候重新出现在你的生活中的?在你诊断出癌症多久之后?另外,我只是想让听众们知道,每次我说他的名字,你都会露出美丽的笑容,让你容光焕发,也让我容光焕发。在你诊断出癌症多久之后,他重新进入了你的生活?
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>> So, when did Don come back into the picture? Like, how long after your diagnosis? Also, I just want to note for the listeners out there that every time I say his name, you smile in this beautiful way that lights you up and it's lighting me up, too. How long after your diagnosis did he reenter your life?
克莱尔·科里:嗯,那是一年前,当时我已经处于四期转移性乳腺癌(Stage 4 Metastatic Breast Cancer: 癌症已扩散到身体其他部位的晚期阶段)的情况了。所以,那不是你会在约会档案上写的那种东西。
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Well, it was one year ago and by this time I'm well into a stage 4 situation, uh, stage 4 metastatic breast cancer. And so, that's not exactly the kind of thing you put on your dating profile. [laughter]
克莱尔·科里:有点难。是的。你知道发生的事情是,他要去凤凰城参加一个会议。他说:“哦,天哪,我们应该一起吃晚饭。”你知道,我很久没见到他了。所以,嗯,我们确实一起吃了顿不错的晚餐,诸如此类。当我向他告别时,我心里真的想,我可能再也见不到他了。我想这就是结局了。但后来发生了一件非常奇怪的事情。这有点令人尴尬,但我的雇主正在举办员工圣诞派对。
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You know, a little tough. Yeah. You know what had happened was he was going to be in Phoenix for a a conference. >> He said, "Oh, well, gez, we ought to get together for dinner. You know, I haven't seen him for a long time." And so, um, we did. We had a nice little dinner, whatever. And when [snorts] I said goodbye to him, I honestly thought to myself, I'll probably never see him again. I think that this is it. But then this really weird thing happened. And [laughter] it was kind of a little bit embarrassing, but um so my employer was having the employee Christmas party
克莱尔·科里:多年来,我每次员工活动都是独自一人参加的。所以我想,你知道吗,我想和喜欢的人一起去。我只是想和某人一起去一次员工圣诞派对。我记得我开车去上班时,脑子里突然冒出问他是否愿意和我一起去。我当时想:“不,不,不,不,不,不,不。”因为他甚至不住在同一个州。但是它一直困扰着我。所以我不得不说,我感觉自己像个高中女生,你知道,在萨蒂·霍金斯舞会(Sadie Hawkins dance: 一种女生邀请男生参加的舞会)上,当你打电话邀请男生和你一起去的时候。所以我给他打电话,我说,你知道,嗯,你知道,我一直想和某人一起去圣诞派对,你愿意和我一起去吗?你知道,还有几周。他说:“是的,当然。”我们玩得很开心。
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>> and I have gone alone to every single employee event for years. And so I thought, you know what, I want to go with somebody that I would enjoy going with. And I'm just I would like to just go once to the employee Christmas party with somebody. And I remember I was driving to work and it popped into my head to ask him to go with me. And I was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no." Cuz he doesn't even live in the same state. [snorts] And um but it just kept bugging me and bugging me. And so I have to say that I felt like a high school girl, you know, at the Satie Hawkins dance or whatever, you know, when you call and you ask the guy to go with you. And so I called him up and I said, you know, um, you know, I've always wanted to go to the Christmas party with somebody and [snorts] would you go with me, you know, and you know, it's in a few weeks. And and he said, "Yeah, sure." [laughter] And we had this great time.
主持人安娜·马丁:那一切都如你所愿吗?
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>> Was it everything you'd hoped for? [laughter]
克莱尔·科里:我喜欢很多闪光和火花。圣诞节时你会看到很多这样的东西。我们的员工圣诞派对是在一家非常可爱的酒店举行的,那里充满了灯光和闪光,我只是,我不知道,我只是
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>> I like a lot of glitter and sparkle. And you get a lot of that on Christmas, you know. and and our employee Christmas party was held at this really lovely hotel and it was full of all the lights and all the sparkle and I just I don't know I I'm just
克莱尔·科里:我只是那种东西的粉丝。所以,嗯,和他一起去,在这个美丽的地方,你知道,有这种经历,真的很有趣。第二天我们见面吃早餐,嗯,他开始对我说,你知道,他比我大,他自己也有一些健康问题。他说,你知道,我想我要搬家了。我说,哦。他提到了几个可能的地点,亚利桑那州是其中之一。我说:“嗯,你为什么要搬到别的地方去呢?”我有点开玩笑地对他说。嗯,大约一个月,六周后,我听说:“嗯,我要搬到亚利桑那州了。”
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>> I'm just a fan of that kind of thing. And so, um, it was just really fun to go with him and to be in this beautiful place and, you know, to have this experience. And the the next day we met up for breakfast and um, so he starts saying to me, you know, he's been having he's older than I am and he'd been having a few health issues of his own. He said, you know, I think I'm going to be moving. And I said, oh. And he mentioned a few possible places and Arizona was one of them. And I said, "Well, why would you want to go anywhere else?" I was kind of joking with him, you know. Well, about a month, 6 weeks later, I hear, "Well, I'm going to move to Arizona." [laughter]
主持人安娜·马丁:所以,当你听到这个消息时,你有什么反应?这有点像好消息。
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So, how did you react when you got that news? That's kind of like great news.
克莱尔·科里:是的,我当时很震惊。我完全震惊了,因为我不确定他是否真的认真。你知道。我说:“嗯,你看,我会帮你找个地方,你知道,我在这里支持你,你知道。”所以他租了一栋房子,他还没到这里。他说:“你看,你能帮我拿钥匙吗?”我说:“哦,是的。我会的。”然后我有了这个想法,我说:“你知道吗?我应该给他买些东西,等他到了这里,这样甜蜜的……”
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Yeah, I was Well, I was shocked. I was completely shocked because I wasn't sure he was really serious, you know. I said, "Well, look, I'll uh I'll I'll help you look for a place and you know, I'm I'm here for you, you know." And so, he rented a house and he wasn't here yet. And [snorts] uh he said, "Look, could you go pick up the keys for me?" And I said, "Oh, yeah. I'll do that." And then I got this idea and I said, "You know what? I should get him a few things for when he gets here so that sweet [laughter]
克莱尔·科里:这样,你知道,当你搬进来时,你什么都没有,你知道,对吧?
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>> so that you know you know when you move in and and you don't have anything you know right
主持人安娜·马丁:克莱尔,你有很多事情要做,你有很多事情要做,你有全职工作,你有治疗,你有自己的健康。
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>> Claire you got a lot going on you got have a lot going on you have your full-time job you have your treatment you have your own health
主持人安娜·马丁:这意味着你看到这空荡荡的房子,然后你说,你知道吗,在我繁忙的日程中,我想我会出去给他买个搅拌机或者你给他买了什么。
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>> it means something that you saw this empty house and you were like you know what amidst my full schedule I think I'm going to go out and buy him a blender or whatever you got him [laughter] you know
克莱尔·科里:嗯,有点像那样,我的表妹后来对我说。哦,是的,你知道,嗯,在他搬进来之前给他收拾房子。是的,你觉得那只是柏拉图式的,对吧?但事实确实如此,我在情人节那天在他的空浴室里挂浴帘。
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well it it was kind of like that and my cousin has said to me sense. Oh yeah, you know, um going to fix up a guy's house before he moves in. Yeah, you think that's just platonic, right? But it did come to pass that I was putting up a shower curtain in his vacant bathroom on Valentine's Day.
主持人安娜·马丁:不。
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>> No. [laughter]
克莱尔·科里:他不在城里,我对自己说:“这有多疯狂?”所以,但那正是发生的事情。
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>> And he wasn't in town and I said to myself, "How crazy is this?" And uh so but that is exactly what happened.
主持人安娜·马丁:很明显,你和唐正在以友谊的方式重新联系。你们是什么时候开始变得浪漫的?有没有一个你可以指出的时间点,你当时想:“哦,这里不仅仅是两个老朋友重新回到彼此的生活中。”
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It's clear you and Don are reconnecting in a friendship way. When did you start when did it start to become romantic? Was there a time you can point to where you were like, "Oh, there's more here than just two old friends, you know, coming back into each other's lives."
克莱尔·科里:嗯,讽刺的是,那是在我的故事发表后大约一两周,你知道,那个故事是关于单身的,但我们有了去蝴蝶仙境(Butterfly Wonderland: 亚利桑那州的一个室内热带雨林和蝴蝶园)的想法,我想就是这个名字。但我们去了,它实际上是一个非常可爱的地方,到处都是蝴蝶,很漂亮。有鲜花和绿植。与亚利桑那州其他地方相比,这是一个非常郁郁葱葱的地方。嗯,我感觉到这种能量开始转变,我对自己说,这里发生了什么?怎么回事?有些事情正在发生,我
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Well, ironically, it was about a week or two after my story was published, which is, you know, about being single, but we got this idea to go to this um it's called the butterfly wonderland, I think is what it's called. But we went and it is actually it's just such a lovely place and there's just butterflies everywhere and it's beautiful. There's flowers and greenery. It's a very lush sort of place compared to everywhere else in Arizona. And um I felt felt this energy start to shift and I'm like saying to myself, what is happening here? What is going on? There is something happening and I
克莱尔·科里:现在我感觉有一扇门开始打开,我将无法关上它。也许以前的我可能会说:“我不会走进去,因为那会带来所有的复杂和混乱。”因为那确实会很混乱。说实话,我们俩可能都处于生命的最后阶段,因为他比我大,当然我得了四期癌症,所以门打开了,我觉得我必须走进去。
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>> now I felt like there was a door starting to open and I wasn't going to be able to shut it. [laughter] And perhaps the old me would have said, "I'm not walking through that because of all the complications and the messiness of it." Cuz it was going to be messy. Truthfully, we're both in the probably the final seasons of our life because he is older than I am and of course I have stage four cancer and so the door opened and I felt like I had to walk through it.
主持人安娜·马丁:当你说你感觉到能量转变,就像有一扇门打开了,你们有没有进行那种我们称之为“定义关系”的对话?你有没有在那张长凳上转向他,说:“显然有些事情正在发生。我们应该谈谈。”
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When you say you felt the energy shift, like there was a door opening, did you have what we call a kind of like define the relationship conversation? Did you turn to him on that bench and say, "Clearly something's happening. We should talk about it."
克莱尔·科里:嗯,我希望我能说我那么成熟。但显然我不是。
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Well, I wish I could say I was that mature. [laughter] But apparently I'm not.
克莱尔·科里:是的。不,我还在上高中。所以我们没有在长凳上交谈,但我感觉到了,我知道了。但后来,一两天之内,我们确实谈了。我说:“嗯,让我们看看,你知道,如果这,如果我们能坚持90天。”所以他一直和我开玩笑说,我们一直坚持,好吧,再90天,再90天。我说:“嗯,如果我们90天后不说话了怎么办?”
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>> Yeah. And no, I I'm still in high school. But so we didn't have a conversation on the penchet, but I felt it and I knew it. But later um within a day or two, we did. And I said, "Well, let's just see, you know, um if this if we can make it 90 days." So he keeps joking with me that we keep that, okay, 90 more days and 90 more days. I said, "Well, what if we're not speaking to each other in 90 days?"
主持人安娜·马丁:
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>> [laughter]
克莱尔·科里:所以我说:“嗯,让我们试试看会发生什么,你知道。”
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>> So I said, "Well, let's just give it a go and see what happens, you know."
主持人安娜·马丁:你们大多数晚上都一起吃晚饭吗?
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>> Do you guys eat dinner together most nights?
克莱尔·科里:嗯。是的,我们会的。
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>> Mhm. Yeah, we do.
主持人安娜·马丁:他为你做饭吗?因为你……
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>> Is he cooking for you? Cuz you
克莱尔·科里:是的。我有点不好意思说我从来没有为他做过一次饭。但是不,他做了很多饭。是的。
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>> Yeah. And I I'm kind of ashamed to say that I've never cooked for him once. And but no, he's been cooking a lot. Yeah.
主持人安娜·马丁:唐做了什么?唐给你做了什么?
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>> What does Don What does Don make you?
克莱尔·科里:哦,嗯,我喜欢他的肉酱三明治。
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>> Oh, um I love his sloppy joe's.
主持人安娜·马丁:好吃。
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>> Yum.
克莱尔·科里:然后是波兰香肠和德国酸菜。我没办法,波兰人嘛。所以是的,那是他做的我最喜欢的两道菜。但是,嗯,然后他给我做早餐,为我剥橙子之类的。
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>> And And then kilbasa and sauerkraut. I can't help Polish, you know. So yeah, so those are my two favorites that he makes. But um >> and then he makes me breakfast and peeling oranges for me and things like that.
克莱尔·科里:我无法解释。我不知道这是怎么发生的。
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>> I I can't explain it. I I don't know how this happened. [music]
死亡约会与生命的魔法
克莱尔·科里:就在我们六月复合后,我本来就有一个预约要去殡仪馆办理我的葬礼事宜。
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[music] Right after we got back together in June, I already had an existing appointment to go to to go to the mortuary and make my funeral arrangements.
主持人安娜·马丁:哦,天哪。
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>> Oh my gosh.
克莱尔·科里:所以我们才刚刚复合。我说:“嗯,我在殡仪馆有个预约。你想和我一起去吗?”
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>> And so we had barely gotten back together. And I said, "Well, I've got an appointment in the mortuary. [laughter] Do you want to come with me?"
主持人安娜·马丁:殡仪馆约会。
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>> Mortuary dates.
克莱尔·科里:是的。所以我们第一次约会基本上就是去殡仪馆。
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>> Yeah. So pretty much our first quote date was going to the mortuary. Te
主持人安娜·马丁:告诉我,他还带你去吃了晚饭什么的。不仅仅是殡仪馆约会。告诉我,你们还去了一家不错的意大利餐厅。
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>> tell me that he also took you to like dinner or something. It wasn't just mortuary dates. Like tell me that you also went to like a nice Italian restaurant.
克莱尔·科里:哦,是的。嗯,我们确实有,事实上,是的,我们有。但我的姐妹们都说只有你才会这样。是的。
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>> Oh yeah. Well, we've you know in fact yes we've [laughter] had but my sisters are like only you. That's just the way that you would roll. Yeah.
主持人安娜·马丁:我的意思是,我正在想,你知道,这是你已经安排好的预约。你是在单身并自己处理这些事情的时候做的这个预约。我真正敬佩的是,你有点像在告诉他:“这就是我的生活。我已经在做这些事情了。你欢迎和我一起经历。”基本上。我发现他那边令人瞩目的是,他说:“是的,我在。”
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>> I mean I'm thinking about how >> you know you this was an appointment that you had on the books. like you had made this appointment when you were single and handling this stuff yourself. And the thing I really >> look up to is it's you're kind of telling him like this is my life. I was already doing these things. You are welcome to come along for the ride basically. And the thing that I find remarkable from his end is he's like yeah I'm there.
克莱尔·科里:嗯。这是我们在一起的六周美好时光之一,事情相对正常,然后一切都崩溃了,我得了重感冒,然后我进了医院,癌症进展了,我的状况在纸面上看起来很糟糕,他一直陪我在医院里,睡在椅子上,这让我很困扰。我想:“不,我不想你睡在椅子上。”但我的妹妹从外地赶来,然后我对他说:“回家睡你自己的床一晚。”因为那时他已经陪我在医院里四五晚了。所以他回家了,那天我的脑部核磁共振结果出来了。
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>> Mhm. And that's one of the things that we had about six good weeks [laughter] of of things being relatively normal and then it all crashed and um I got really sick with the flu and then next thing I was in the hospital and the cancers progressed and I'm looking really bad on paper and uh he was staying in the hospital with me and sleeping in a chair and that bothered me. I'm like, "No, I don't want you sleeping in a chair." But my sister came from out of town and then I said to him, "Go home and sleep in your own bed for one night." Because by now he'd been at the hospital with me for probably four or five nights. So he went home and that was the day that the results of my brain MRI came back. And
克莱尔·科里:我的妹妹,我们当时在医院的花园里散步,她说:“嗯,你的核磁共振结果出来了。”我从她脸上的表情看到了,她说:“是的,你大脑里有一个病灶。”那是我最不想听到的消息。我觉得我能应对任何事情,除了脑转移。
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>> my sister um we were out walking in the garden at the hospital and she said, "Uh, your MRI came back." and I saw from the look on her face and she said, "Yeah, you've got a lesion in your brain." And that was the last thing that I wanted to hear. I felt like I could deal with anything but brain metastasis.
克莱尔·科里:我说:“嗯,唐怎么说?”因为我有点觉得她已经告诉他了。我们当时站在窗边。我记得电梯门开了,他就站在那里,就像他回来了。
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>> And I said, "Well, what does Dawn say?" Cuz I kind of figured she had told him already. And um we were standing and looking out the window. I remember the elevator door opened and and there he was like he came back. [music]
当下即永恒:爱与生命的新篇章
主持人安娜·马丁:在你生命的中期,你做了很多努力来摆脱对浪漫伴侣的渴望。而现在你拥有了,你拥有了唐,你拥有了一个浪漫伴侣。我只是想知道,重新开启这种可能性并让它实现,感觉如何?那是什么感觉?
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[music] You did so much work in the sort of middle part of your life to move on from your desire to have a romantic partner. And now you have that, you have Don, you have a romantic partner. I just want to know like what does it feel like to to open back up that possibility and to let it be fulfilled? What does that feel like?
克莱尔·科里:嗯,一方面,这有点吓人,因为你再次敞开心扉,但我也认为,你知道,带着封闭的心生活是不值得的。
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Well, on the one hand, it's kind of scary because you're opening your heart again, but I also think that um you know, it's not worth it to walk around with a closed heart.
克莱尔·科里:那种安全感和归属感的重要性,我们都在寻找,而且我可能一生都在寻找,这种感觉很难言喻。找到它,嗯,这有点像,你知道,你像在旋转木马上转来转去,想着这里刚刚发生了什么?这也很难理解。我的生活和八个月前,一年前非常不同。它非常不同,因为它是一种全新的生活方式,我已经习惯了。我们没有住在一起,但我们在一起度过了很多时间。我真的以为我们开玩笑说,如果他总是呆在我身边,我会被窒息。所以他一直问我,你知道,你需要独处时间吗?你需要独处时间吗?令我非常震惊和惊讶的是,我发现我真的可以接受,你知道,他在这里,你知道,或者我在他家,或者其他什么。我得告诉你,我对我有多喜欢它感到有点惊讶。
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It's it's hard to overstate the importance of that feeling of safety and belonging that I think that we all look for and that I'd probably been looking for for for so much of my life. And to find that um it it it's a little bit of a [sighs] you know like you're swirling around in a merry ground going what just happened here? It's hard to get your head around too. My life is very different than it was 8 months ago, a year ago. It's very different cuz it's a whole different way of than [snorts] I've been used to living. And we're not living together but we spend a heck of a lot of time together. And I honestly thought we had this joke that I would be um smothered if he was around too much. And so he kept asking me, you know, do you need some alone time? Do you need some alone time? So much to my utter shock and surprise, I have found that I really I'm okay with, you know, him being here, you know, or me being at his place or whatever. I got to tell you, I'm a little surprised at how much I've enjoyed it. [laughter]
克莱尔·科里:前几天晚上我说:“嗯,我本来会回家然后忘了吃饭。”吃饭,他说:“不,不,我们必须做晚饭。”
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The other night I said, "Well, I just would have come home and forgotten to eat." eating and he's like, "No, no, we have to make dinner.
克莱尔·科里:我给你做肉酱三明治,你必须吃掉它们。是的。嗯,但这真的是一种乐趣,我想,与某人分享生活的起起伏伏,只是与某人分享生活。这比我实际想象的要有趣得多。
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>> I'm making you sloppy joe's and you are eating them." [snorts] >> Yeah. Um but it's just been um a real joy, I think, to share with somebody uh the ups and downs and just to share in life with somebody. It's it's way more fun than I actually thought.
主持人安娜·马丁:你知道,对于大多数情侣来说,开始一段关系或处于关系早期阶段(就像你和唐一样)的一个重要部分是谈论未来,对吗?以及你们将要在一起度过的所有时间。
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You know, a big part of for most couples, a big part of starting a relationship or being in the early stages of relationship like you and Don are [snorts] is talking about the future, >> right? >> And all the time that you're going to spend with them.
克莱尔·科里:嗯。
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>> Mhm. [snorts]
主持人安娜·马丁:你和唐呢?你们谈论未来吗?
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What about you and Don? Do you talk about the future?
克莱尔·科里:嗯,你知道,现在我正在接受治疗,情况很好。但这可能很快就会改变。我非常清楚这一点。我希望它不会,但它可能会。当然,你知道,他也不是年轻人,他自己的健康状况也可能很快改变。事实是,我们不知道我们有什么样的未来,如果有的话。所以,我发现我不太担心谁去倒垃圾之类的事情。我们并不是在建立一段能持续几十年的关系,因为我们不太可能拥有几十年。所以,这真的只关乎今天。
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Um, you know, right now I'm responding to treatment and things are going well. that can change very quickly. I'm very aware of that. I hope it doesn't, but it could. And certainly, you know, he's not a young person and and his own health could change very quickly. The truth is that we don't know what kind of future we have, if any. And so, I find that I'm not very troubled about who's taking out the trash kind of thing. It's not like we're building a relationship to last through decades because we're not likely to have decades. And so really it's about today.
主持人安娜·马丁:最近有没有一个时刻,你们俩在一起,你觉得:“哦,这就是魔法。”就像,这就是它。
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>> Was there a recent moment where the two of you were together and you thought like, "Oh, this is this is the magic." Like this is this is what it is.
克莱尔·科里:是的。嗯,我想说有很多这样的时刻,你知道,也许它们不是你所期望的,你知道,但是,你知道,我们一起看过一些美丽的日落,嗯,看过月升,那真是太美了。嗯,看着满月升起,然后,你知道,我想着我想要更多的时间进行更多的对话,更多的时间做这些事情,做那些我称之为“普通情侣”的事情,这很好。是的,这对我来说是一种非常新的体验。是的。
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>> Yeah. Well, I'd say there's quite a lot of those moments, you know, and maybe they're not the ones that you'd expect, you know, but, you know, we've seen some beautiful sunsets together and uh watch the moonrise uh which was just beautiful. um watching a full moon rise and then uh you know I think about like I want to have more time for more conversations and more time to do this and it's nice [clears throat] to do I guess what I call sort of normal couples things together. Yeah, it's just a very new experience for me. Yeah. [clears throat]
主持人安娜·马丁:我假设当你第一次被诊断出癌症并开始思考自己的死亡时,那对你来说是某种样子,然后你遇到了唐,在过去的几个月里,随着事情的发展和深化,你对死亡的看法一定有所不同,我想知道它是否为你改变了,如果是的话……
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I I I'm going to assume that when you were first diagnosed and you started thinking about your own death that looked a certain way to you and then you meet Don >> and over the past few months as things have grown and deepened as much as they have that picture of your passing must look a little different and I want to know like has it changed for you and if so
克莱尔·科里:嗯,你知道,我把自己看作是一个现实乐观主义者,所以我很乐观,我会接受他们提供给我的每一次治疗。我会做一切事情。但我也很现实,所以我知道有一天可能会到来,那时我没有更多的治疗方法可用,我将不得不优雅地,我希望我能优雅地接受那一刻。我说过我希望在我离开这个世界时,神能善待我。我也觉得我不想让任何人失望。嗯,特别是我的家人,现在坦率地说还有唐,因为我的去世。你知道,我觉得,哦,天哪,我会让他们经历很多。所以我确实和他谈过,他说:“我与你同在,无论如何我都会在那里。”
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Well, you know, I consider myself realistically optimistic and so I'm optimistic and I will take every single treatment that they offer me. I will do everything. But I'm also realistic and so I know that the day may come when I there are no more treatments available and that I will have to gracefully I hope I can gracefully accept that at that time. and I've said I hope the gods will be kind to me as I leave this world. I also feel that I don't want to let anybody down. Um my family in particular and now Don frankly by dying, you know, and I feel like, oh jeez, I'm going to put them through a lot. And so I do talk to him about it and he says, "I'm I'm in it with you and I'm I'll I'll be there regardless."
克莱尔·科里:自从我第一次被诊断出癌症以来,我对自己说的一件事,字面上是第一周,嗯,有数百万其他女性也面临过乳腺癌,如果她们挺过来了,我也能做到。有数百万其他女性接受过化疗。如果她们挺过来了,我也能做到。或者手术,放疗。有,你知道,许多女性患有四期转移性乳腺癌。如果她们能做到,我也能做到。同样真实的是,有许多许多女性死于四期转移性乳腺癌。如果她们做到了,嗯,我也能做到。我只希望我能优雅地做到。嗯,我希望,嗯,天哪,我真的希望我不会让任何人失望,因为我真的想继续活着。
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>> One of the things that I've said to myself since I was first diagnosed with cancer literally the first week, well, there's millions of other women who have been faced with breast cancer, and if they got through it, I can do it, too. There's millions of other women who have had chemo. If they got through it, I can do it, too. or surgeries, radiation. There are, you know, many women living with stage 4 metastic breast cancer. If they're doing it, I can do it, too. And what's also true is that there are many, many women who have died from stage 4 metastatic breast cancer. And if they did it, well, I can do it, too. And I just hope that I can do it um gracefully. And um and I hope that um well, jeez, I really hope that I won't disappoint anybody and let anybody down because I really do want to keep living.
主持人安娜·马丁:克莱尔,我确实认为这体现了你是什么样的人,当我们谈论你自己的死亡时,你首先想到的是其他人。是你爱的人。我只想说,我觉得唐非常幸运能被算作你爱的人群中的一员。你知道,当你给《摩登情爱》写信时,实际上是在你和唐重新联系之前。
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Claire, I I do think it speaks to the kind of person you are that when we're talking about your own mortality, the first thing that comes to mind for you is other people. It's the people that you love. And I just want to say I think Don is very lucky to count himself in that group of people who you love. You know, when you wrote in to modern love, it was actually before you and Don had reconnected.
主持人安娜·马丁:我想我们现在知道了你写完之后发生的事情,感觉可能会有所不同。所以我想知道你是否可以为我们读一下。
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And I I think it might have a different feeling now that we know what happened after you wrote it. So I I wonder if you could read it for us.
克莱尔·科里:我很乐意读。是的。是的。谁知道这之后会发生什么呢?
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>> I will happily read it. Yeah. Yeah. Who knew what was coming after this? [laughter]
克莱尔·科里:终于找到了魔法。
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[music] Finally finding the magic.
克莱尔·科里:从小,我就渴望爱情。
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Since [music] childhood, I yearned for love.
克莱尔·科里:我曾一度离婚姻只有几周之遥,然后它突然破裂了。他说我们缺少魔法,我承认他是对的。
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Once I came within weeks of marriage before it abruptly fell apart. [music] He said we were missing the magic and admittedly he was right.
克莱尔·科里:几个男人来了又走。
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A few men came and went.
克莱尔·科里:我今年59岁,患有四期转移性乳腺癌。我仍然没有伴侣,但我已经无可救药地爱上了生命。
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I'm now 59 with stage [music] 4 metastatic breast cancer. I still don't have a partner, but I've fallen desperately in love with life.
克莱尔·科里:无与伦比的美丽无处不在。
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Exquisite beauty emerges everywhere.
克莱尔·科里:我的猫在我腿上。一个收银员给了我一个意想不到的微笑。阳光跳跃着穿过湖面。我用每一天来沉浸在世界的辉煌中。还没有,我向天堂低语。我爱这里。
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[music] My cat on my lap. A cashier extending an unexpected smile. Sunlight skipping [music] across a lake. I use each day to soak up the world's splendor. Not yet, I whisper to the heavens. I love it here.
主持人安娜·马丁:哦,在我们的谈话之后,它有了如此新的深度。我的意思是,这真是非凡。我理解其中的背景和历史,以及它之后发生的篇章,而你发表这篇文章时并不知道这些。这真是非凡。
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Oh, that that there's such a new depth to it after our conversation. I mean, it's just remarkable. There's so much. I understand the context and the history and also the chapter that comes after it which you did not know when this was published. It's just remarkable.
克莱尔·科里:是的。
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>> Yes,
主持人安娜·马丁:克莱尔·科里,非常感谢你这次谈话。我真的非常非常感激。
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>> Claire Corey, thank you so much for this conversation. [music] I'm I'm really really grateful.
克莱尔·科里:嗯,我也是。很高兴和你交谈。
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>> Well, I am as well. It's a delight to speak with you.
甜蜜的更新:意料之外的婚姻
主持人安娜·马丁:好了,这是我之前承诺的更新。距离我们发布这一集已经大约一年了,所以我们联系了克莱尔,看看她过得怎么样。尽管经历了这一切,她仍然全职工作,仍然热爱生活。这是个大新闻。她和唐结婚了。克莱尔说她从没想过自己会结婚,但生活充满了惊喜。她说,引用她的话:“唐是我心灵的归宿。”
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All >> [music] right, here's that update I was promising. It's been about a year since we released this episode, [music] so we reached out to Claire to see how she's doing. Despite everything, she is still working [music] full-time and still in love with life. And here's the big news. [music] She and Don got hitched. Claire says she never thought she would get married, [music] but that life is full of surprises. and she says, quote, "Dawn is the home of my heart." [music]
主持人安娜·马丁:**《摩登情爱》团队成员有艾米·珀尔、克里斯蒂娜·约瑟夫、戴维斯·兰德、伊丽莎·古铁雷斯、艾米丽·朗、詹·波安特、林恩·利维、雷瓦·戈德堡和莎拉·柯蒂斯。本集由艾米·珀尔和戴维斯·兰德制作。由詹·波安特编辑。本集原创音乐由帕特·麦卡斯克、罗文·内米斯托、玛丽安·洛萨诺和丹·鲍威尔创作。丹也创作了我们的主题音乐。我们的混音工程师是丹尼尔·拉米雷斯,我们得到了马蒂·莫西耶洛和尼克·皮特曼的录音室支持。《摩登情爱》专栏由丹尼尔·琼斯编辑。米娅·李是《摩登情爱》**项目的编辑。如果你想向《纽约时报》提交一篇散文或一个微型爱情故事,我们总是在节目说明中提供这些说明。我是安娜·马丁。感谢收听。
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The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Joseph, Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poant, [music] Lynn Levy, Reva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Amy Pearl, [music] and Davis Land. It was edited by Jen Poant. Original music in this episode [music] by Pat McCusker, Rowan Nemisto, Marian Lozano, and Dan Powell. Dan also composed our theme music. Our mix engineer [music] is Daniel Ramirez and we had studio support from Mattie Mosiello and Nick Pitman. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, [music] we've always got those instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.