对阿根廷援助的质疑

Interviewer: Senator, it's good to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. You sure seem to be top of mind, if not top of word, every time the President speaks lately. I want to ask you about your effort to quash this bailout, as many are calling it, for Argentina. The President said today, and this is a direct quote, "just helping a great philosophy take over a great country. We don't have to do it," he said. "It's not going to make a big difference for our country." How many Republicans, how many America First Republicans, did you get to sign on?

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 主持人：参议员，很高兴见到您。欢迎回到彭博电视台和广播电台。最近总统每次讲话，您似乎都备受关注，甚至被频繁提及。我想问您关于您试图阻止对阿根廷的“救助”的努力，许多人称之为“救助”。总统今天说，这是直接引用的话，“只是帮助一个伟大的哲学接管一个伟大的国家。我们不必这样做，”他说，“这对我们国家不会产生太大影响。” 您争取到了多少共和党人，多少美国优先 (America First: 一种强调美国国内利益高于一切的政治理念)的共和党人支持？

Senator: You're asking exactly the right question. Donald Trump ran for office proclaiming he would do America First. Instead, he is sending 20 billion American taxpayer dollars to bail out his buddy in Argentina. He's doing this after Argentina has just cozied up to China and cut a deal with China that takes the legs out from underneath American soybean farmers. So let me get this straight: Argentina hurts American farmers, and the President of the United States responds by giving $20 billion to Argentina, plus Secretary Bessant saying a blank check if they need more. That's pretty appalling.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 参议员：您问的正是关键问题。唐纳德·特朗普竞选时宣称要实行美国优先。然而，他却将200亿美元美国纳税人的钱送去救助 (bail out: 为面临财务困境的实体提供资金支持以避免破产)他在阿根廷的“老友”。他这样做，正值阿根廷刚刚与中国走近，并达成了一项协议，这项协议严重损害了美国大豆农民的利益。所以，让我理清一下：阿根廷伤害了美国农民，而美国总统的回应却是向阿根廷提供200亿美元，再加上贝桑特部长所说的，如果他们需要更多，就是一张空白支票。这相当令人震惊。

国会应就援助法案投票

Interviewer: Will Congress not have a chance to weigh in outside of your legislation? Is this money as good as gone to Argentina?

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 主持人：国会除了您的立法之外，难道没有机会介入吗？这笔钱是不是已经确定要给阿根廷了？

Senator: That's what I want to do. I just went to the floor of the Senate and introduced the bill and asked for unanimous consent that we move it forward. And there was an objection. So now I'm just saying to the Republicans: Look, you guys have criticized this. I've heard Chuck Grassley speak out against it, and other senators who represent farmers in their home state saying this is a terrible idea. Well, this is your chance, not just to talk. You can actually take action here. The United States Senate has the power to say, "No, we're not going to do this." So let's just bring it to the floor and vote, because I feel pretty sure that if everybody had a chance in the Senate to vote on this, the answer would be no money to Argentina. We'd rather support our farmers and families here in America.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 参议员：这正是我想要做的。我刚刚在参议院提交了这项法案，并请求一致同意 (unanimous consent: 在立法程序中，所有议员都同意某项动议，无需正式投票)将其推进。但遭到了反对。所以现在我只是对共和党人说：看，你们一直批评这件事。我听过查克·格拉斯利对此发表反对意见，其他代表其州农民的参议员也说这是一个糟糕的主意。嗯，这是你们的机会，不仅仅是说说而已。你们可以在这里采取实际行动。美国参议院有权说“不，我们不会这样做。”所以，让我们把它提交到议会进行投票，因为我非常确信，如果参议院的每个人都有机会对此投票，结果将是“不给阿根廷钱”。我们宁愿支持我们美国的农民和家庭。

Interviewer: So, do you know if you're going to get a vote? Will this go to the floor?

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 主持人：那么，您知道是否能获得投票机会吗？这会提交到议会吗？

Senator: The person who determines that is the Republican leader, not the Democrats. So all I can do is keep raising the alarm about this and asking people all over this country to let the Republicans know that we want a vote on this. We want to put a stop to this. The American soybean farmers have really been hurt. And American farmers who are growing other crops have been hurt as well, because when Donald Trump has done this — tariffs on, tariffs off, 100% tariffs, 50% tariffs, 20% tariffs — many, many buyers of those agriculture products, for whom our farmers spent decades developing those markets and relationships, they said, "Look, if your president is going to impose tariffs on my home country, I can't buy your product." And that's putting our American farmers under a lot of pressure. The soybean farmers in particular got targeted by China and Argentina, with Argentina doing a deal with China to cut out American soybean farmers. That's just not right. And we should not be rewarding a country that acts against the interests of the American people and the American farmer. That is exactly what President Trump is doing.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 参议员：决定这件事的人是共和党领袖，而不是民主党人。所以我能做的就是不断就此事发出警告，并呼吁全国人民让共和党人知道我们希望对此进行投票。我们想阻止这件事。美国大豆农民确实受到了很大伤害。种植其他作物的美国农民也受到了伤害，因为当唐纳德·特朗普这样做时——一会儿征收关税 (tariffs: 国家对进出口商品征收的税，旨在保护国内产业或增加政府收入)，一会儿取消关税，100%的关税，50%的关税，20%的关税——许多购买这些农产品的买家，我们的农民花了数十年时间发展这些市场和关系，他们说：“看，如果你们的总统要对我的祖国征收关税，我就不能购买你们的产品。” 这给我们的美国农民带来了巨大压力。特别是大豆农民，他们受到了中国和阿根廷的针对，阿根廷与中国达成协议，以排挤美国大豆农民。这根本就不对。我们不应该奖励一个损害美国人民和美国农民利益的国家。而这正是特朗普总统正在做的事情。

政府停摆与医疗保健危机

Interviewer: Senator, I want to turn from Argentina now to Capitol Hill. I'm curious if you have spoken to the Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, about his plans next, what's going on with the shutdown, and when people can expect to feel some relief.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 主持人：参议员，现在我想从阿根廷转到国会山 (Capitol Hill: 美国国会所在地，常代指美国国会或联邦政府立法部门)。我很好奇您是否与少数党领袖 (Minority Leader: 在立法机构中，代表人数较少的政党的领袖)查克·舒默谈过他接下来的计划，以及政府停摆的进展，以及人们何时能期待一些缓解。

Senator: I don't talk about private conversations, but let me put it this way: Democrats are really clear about what we're asking for. We want the Republicans just to roll back those cuts that are going to knock 15 million Americans off their healthcare coverage and drive up insurance costs for tens of millions more Americans. That's all we're asking for here. And the Republicans right now literally will not even sit down and negotiate. The House is out for its fourth week of vacation, so they can't even be here to vote. And the Senate just says no talking. That's not how it works in a democracy. We're fighting to try to help Americans be able to afford their healthcare. I'm not defending the American healthcare system; I think it's badly broken. But what Trump is doing to that system, along with the Republicans, is they're going to take a creaky, barely functioning system and just smash it apart. That ultimately is going to hurt everybody in this country. We're just trying to push back and say, "Just give people back the coverage they had back in June." We're not trying to rewrite the whole system; we're not spending any additional money. Just give people what they had a few months ago before Donald Trump and the Republicans passed that one big, beautiful bill.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 参议员：我不会谈论私人对话，但让我这样说：民主党人对我们的要求非常明确。我们只希望共和党人撤销那些将导致1500万美国人失去医疗保险覆盖 (healthcare coverage: 个人或家庭通过保险计划获得医疗服务的保障)，并使数千万美国人保险费用上涨的削减。我们在这里要求的就只有这些。而共和党人现在根本不愿坐下来谈判。众议院已经休假第四周了，所以他们甚至不能在这里投票。参议院只是说不谈。这不是民主制度 (democracy: 一种政府形式，公民通过投票选举代表来行使权力)的运作方式。我们正在努力帮助美国人负担得起他们的医疗保健。我不想为美国的医疗保健系统辩护，我认为它已经严重崩溃。但特朗普和共和党人正在对这个系统做的事情是，他们要将一个摇摇欲坠、勉强运转的系统彻底摧毁。这最终会伤害这个国家的每一个人。我们只是在努力反击，说“只是把人们在六月份拥有的保险还给他们。”我们不是想重写整个系统；我们没有花任何额外的钱。只是把几个月前，在唐纳德·特朗普和共和党人通过那项“伟大而美丽”的法案之前，人们所拥有的东西还给他们。

波士顿市长与联邦干预

Interviewer: Senator, I do want to turn to your home state of Massachusetts right now in the short time that we do have left. President Trump said today he was very critical of the Boston mayor, in fact, saying at one point that he would consider pulling the World Cup games from Boston. Of course, that is something that is up to the head of FIFA (国际足球联合会: 国际足球运动的管理机构). However, are you concerned that Boston could be the next target for National Guard (国民警卫队: 美国各州和领地的一支后备军事力量，可在州内执行任务，也可应联邦政府要求执行联邦任务) troops?

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 主持人：参议员，在剩下的短暂时间里，我想谈谈您的家乡马萨诸塞州。特朗普总统今天表示，他非常批评波士顿市长，甚至一度说他会考虑将世界杯比赛从波士顿撤走。当然，那是由国际足球联合会 (FIFA: 国际足球运动的管理机构)主席决定的。然而，您是否担心波士顿可能成为国民警卫队 (National Guard: 美国各州和领地的一支后备军事力量，可在州内执行任务，也可应联邦政府要求执行联邦任务)的下一个目标？

Senator: Let me just start by saying what a terrific job Michelle Wu, who is Mayor of Boston, is doing. In fact, she just won the primary for her reelection, which comes up in November, by 49 points, so much so that her opponent dropped out. So the people of Boston really seem to think that she's doing a pretty terrific job. Given that Boston has the lowest crime rate of any major city in America, and that Michelle Wu has done more on affordable housing (经济适用房: 指价格低于市场水平，旨在帮助中低收入家庭解决住房问题的房屋) and created more childcare slots, it really tells you why she is much respected and often much loved in the city of Boston. For Donald Trump to attack her, it seems to me, is just a way to say he doesn't like people who are not bowing the knee to Donald Trump, because that's the one thing she has pushed back on. She said to the President of the United States, "If you want to help make Boston safer, then send us some better gun safety laws nationally. We're doing a good job here in Massachusetts, but help us out nationally so guns don't get imported from elsewhere. Help us with healthcare. Help us with housing." Those are the things that will help make Boston an even better city. Donald Trump doesn't like anyone who doesn't bend the knee. So, frankly, I'm not surprised that he's trying to pick some kind of fight with Michelle Wu, but I don't think it's going to work.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 参议员：我首先要说的是，波士顿市长吴弭（Michelle Wu）做得非常出色。事实上，她刚刚以49个百分点的优势赢得了11月举行的连任初选，以至于她的对手都退出了。所以波士顿人民似乎真的认为她做得非常好。考虑到波士顿是美国所有主要城市中犯罪率最低的，而且吴弭在经济适用房 (affordable housing: 指价格低于市场水平，旨在帮助中低收入家庭解决住房问题的房屋)方面做了更多工作，并创造了更多托儿服务名额，这确实说明了为什么她在波士顿这座城市如此受人尊敬和喜爱。在我看来，唐纳德·特朗普攻击她，只是一种表达他不喜欢不向他屈膝的人的方式，因为这是她唯一反击并对美国总统说过的话：“如果你想帮助波士顿变得更安全，那么请在全国范围内给我们一些更好的枪支安全法。我们在马萨诸塞州做得很好，但在全国范围内帮助我们，这样枪支就不会从其他地方进口。帮助我们解决医疗保健问题。帮助我们解决住房问题。”这些才是能让波士顿成为一个更好城市的事情。唐纳德·特朗普不喜欢任何不屈膝的人。所以，坦白说，他试图与吴弭挑起某种争斗，我并不感到惊讶，但我认为这不会奏效。

Interviewer: He did say, Senator, that he thought the mayor was, in fact, intelligent and smarter than some of the other mayors. For what it's worth, I put that out there. He was being asked about these street takeovers that have taken place, the pro-Palestinian protests that have in some cases been pretty large-scale in Boston. I'm just wondering what would be your response, and what should be Governor Healey's response, if Donald Trump decides that your hometown is next for National Guard (国民警卫队: 美国各州和领地的一支后备军事力量，可在州内执行任务，也可应联邦政府要求执行联邦任务) troops?

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 主持人：参议员，他确实说过，他认为市长实际上很聪明，比其他一些市长更睿智。姑且不论，我只是提一下。他当时被问及波士顿发生的一些“街头占领”事件，以及一些规模相当大的亲巴勒斯坦抗议活动。我只是想知道，如果唐纳德·特朗普决定您的家乡是下一个部署国民警卫队 (National Guard: 美国各州和领地的一支后备军事力量，可在州内执行任务，也可应联邦政府要求执行联邦任务)的目标，您和州长希利（Healey）会如何回应？

Senator: I just want to be clear on what you're talking about. The Mayor put out a very strong statement about this and said, "We're not going to do this." She also put out a strong statement when a police officer got hurt during a protest. Look, everybody has problems; things happen. But that's why we have our local police. That's why we have our state police. And they are doing an excellent job. We don't need any national troops to come in to somehow flatter Donald Trump's ego. He certainly wouldn't be the first time.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 参议员：我只是想澄清一下您所指的内容。市长对此发表了一份非常强硬的声明，表示“我们不会这样做”。当一名警察在抗议中受伤时，她也发表了一份强硬声明。看，每个人都会遇到问题，事情总会发生。但这就是我们有地方警察的原因。这就是我们有州警察的原因。他们做得非常出色。我们不需要任何国家军队来迎合唐纳德·特朗普的自我。他当然不会是第一次这样做。

Interviewer: You would pursue legal action if he did, Senator?

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 主持人：参议员，如果他真的这样做，您会采取法律行动吗？

Senator: Oh, yes. What Donald Trump is trying to do right now in California and Illinois is pretty clearly illegal. And the courts have already said so across the board that he does not have the authority to engage in this kind of takeover of American cities. Same thing for Portland. But this is about more than just what is legal. This is about Donald Trump trying to find as many ways as possible to suppress, to shut up, to hush anyone who disagrees with Donald Trump. And that's true whether we're talking about mayors of big cities, late-night comedians, or elected officials. Donald Trump cares most about using the federal government (联邦政府: 指由中央权力机构组成的政府，通常指美国联邦政府) and its power to silence dissent (压制异见: 阻止或阻止人们表达不同意见或批评) rather than to advance the interests of the American people. That is the central problem we have, and it just keeps cropping up over and over because Donald Trump wants the government to serve him personally, not the American people.

这里是对应的、高质量的中文翻译。 参议员：哦，是的。唐纳德·特朗普现在在加利福尼亚和伊利诺伊州试图做的事情显然是非法的。而且法院已经普遍表示，他没有权力对美国城市进行这种接管。波特兰也是一样。但这不仅仅是关于合法性。这是关于唐纳德·特朗普试图找到尽可能多的方式来压制、让任何与他意见不合的人闭嘴。无论是大城市的市长，深夜喜剧演员，还是民选官员，都是如此。唐纳德·特朗普最关心的是利用联邦政府 (federal government: 指由中央权力机构组成的政府，通常指美国联邦政府)及其权力来压制异见 (silence dissent: 阻止或阻止人们表达不同意见或批评)，而不是为了美国人民的利益。这是我们面临的核心问题，它一再出现，因为唐纳德·特朗普希望政府为他个人服务，而不是为美国人民服务。