Mark Carney did not mince words at last week's APEC Summit. He told Asia-Pacific leaders that the old model of rules-based open trade no longer works and that the global economy is in a period of profound change, one of the most profound since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989.

So what does that mean for Canada? Where should we build and strengthen ties if we can no longer rely on the US, our biggest trading partner? Carney has spoken of our close connections with Europe, but would it make more sense to focus on building new relationships with Asia?

I asked Arie Lani, former Canadian ambassador and distinguished fellow at the Center for International Governance Innovation for his thoughts.

Well, first I think it's just the importance of Asia uh you know world leaders were there. There was the ASEAN summit of Southeast Asian nations just before a very important meetings between Trump and President Xi uh and also Prime Minister Carney.

So the importance of Asia second I think the importance of bilateral relationships you know there were a lot of important bilateral meetings um and the actual apex summit itself you know wasn't really the the showpiece and I think the third takeaway very specific for Canada is I think Canada finally woke up to the reality that is the economic demographic and increasingly the intellectual power that's in Asia.

Right. And and that's the journey Canada needs to make now.

Uh Mark Carney and President Xi Jinping met for about 40 minutes. This is a relationship that's been strained. We go back to 2018. Um Carney accepted an invitation as well to visit China. Could this be a turning point? Those those are words that he himself has used. Mark Carney. Is this a turning point for that relationship?

It has to be a turning point is the way I look at it. Uh I think it's a world of pragmatic states. Uh you know this is no longer a polite, safe, secure world and countries like Canada need to be pragmatic. Uh China's not going away. Uh you have to engage it. Uh and you can engage it and still hold your principles, but there's no advantage for a country like Canada to be on the sidelines. So I I think it's a it has to be a turning point.

We have to engage China and we also have to understand that the relationship will always be, you know, asymmetric. They're a bigger power. We're not. We have certain cards to play and it's it's time that we play them now.

Well, I think I'm not sure what it will offer Canadians, but I think a nation like China is clearly influencing the global system.

uh and Canada faced with a partner like the United States which is withdrawing from the global order needs to be able to influence China. Second, I think uh you know there are advantages to our economy. The Chinese have just reinstated uh the tourist visas for Chinese travelers. You know, that's a lot of revenue. Um, so there are some economic aspects, but I just think Canada needs to be able to engage the country that's that's crucially shaping the international order.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think Canada needs to what I call navigate new geography and not just physically but intellectually. uh and the prime minister has spent some time in Europe and now he's in Asia and I think Canada needs to make the journey from Europe to Eurasia. You know, that's where the center of power is and and Eurasia uh includes the Middle East and the Gulf States and Central Asia.

Um Canada absolutely needs to do that. Canada is late to the game. Um and so we really need to move quickly.

The Indopacific accounts for more than a third of the world's economic activity. When you say slow to the game, why why why has Canada been so slow to capitalize on this relationship? Well, I think it's been an own goal. I I really think we've had a lost decade the last 10 years.

Um, we had a government uh which had bad relationships with the countries that really mattered, right? I mean, we had a deteriorating relationship with China and a deteriorating relationship um with India. It's pretty hard to have an Indopacific strategy if you can't get along with either of those two countries. So, we've really lost time. And at the same time, the Europeans and the Americans have all been engaging Eurasia.

So, um we've got work to do. I think we don't have the strongest hand, but I think the prime minister is trying to play uh the best game he can.

One of those cards in that game is India, which you had mentioned. Is it time for Canada to push the G7 to invite India to be a full-time member?

Yes. I mean, I've advocated for it publicly. I think the West took a bet on Russia decades ago. I think taking a bet on India is a better bet. Uh there will be problems. Well, one, it's a democratic country. Uh and I think in the evolving world order um you need to reach out to countries that are not likeminded right uh at the moment the G7 uh you know always invites India it invites uh Middle East countries it invites these partner countries 10 years ago it used to invite them because it was seen as a favor to them.

now I would argue that if you have a G7 and you don't invite India the G7 is irrelevant. So, it's a world where like-minded countries getting together is less important than non-like-minded countries getting together. So, I think Canada could really uh play a role here in in uh advancing that idea.

Now, Canada playing a role is one thing, but does Canada have I want to say clout, but does it have that power to really push the other members to get India in it? Well, I think Canada can if it continues to to show up to the game, right? So, I talked about this. Are we showing up different than when we were a couple years ago? Well, it remains to be seen, right? I mean, I think the first thing we did the last couple of weeks was was show up to the game, which is important.

And it's important that it's it's led by the leader of the country and the prime minister. Uh I think that's a cultural thing in Eurasia. Uh the leaders got to show up. So, I think that was important opposed to opposed to sending ministers and but then you've got to deliver. So some agreements have been signed. Uh the next 6 18 months are going to be really important to see if if we actually execute.

Speaking of ministers, um if you had one piece of advice uh for Canada's foreign affair minister, Anita Anand, what would that be? Engage non-like-minded actors. uh Canada in some ways is now alone in the world given what's happening with the United States given where Europe is and given where the economic power is. So, I think you really have to figure out how you engage partners that are not like-minded, but with whom you may find some common uh interest.

Historically, has Canada been in a place that it is in right now when we look at forging sort of those relationships? You know, that's a really interesting question. And if um if you think about it, it's it's hard to see when Canada has been in a place like this. you know, before World War II, we were really part of the British Empire, right?

We emerged from World War II uh as an independent nation, but very much in the orbit of the United States, as was the rest of Europe. Um, and so in some and then we had the Cold War. And the Cold War in some ways was easy for a country like Canada. You picked a side and you stayed on that side.

Uh, now there are not sides for Canada to choose, right? uh Canada has to be more active in more parts of the world um and in a world which has more economic power. So it's a very tough place for a country like Canada at the moment.

Arie, we are going to leave it there. Really appreciate your time and your insights. Pleasure. Thanks.