欢迎大家收听 OnPy 播客。
我是 Steve Pacen，我是 John Michael McGrath。[音乐]
英文原文
Welcome everyone to the OnPy podcast.I'm Steve Pacen and I'm John Michael McGrath. [music]
今天在节目中，省议员们现在已经分散回到各自的选区。因此，我们将回顾在本届议会会期中，取得了哪些成果，又有哪些没有实现。
英文原文
>> Today on the pod, MPPPs have now fanned out to their writings. So we'll review what's been accomplished and what's not been during this session of the legislature.道格·福特（Doug Ford）本周一直在美国宣传他关于“北美堡垒”的主张。哪位美国州长似乎在倾听，但特朗普政府在听吗？
英文原文
>> Doug Ford has been in the US this week making his pitch for Fortress North America. What American governor seems to be listening, but is the Trump administration?自1867年以来，安大略省历经了26位省长，但只有一位来自苏圣玛丽（Sue St. Marie）。他的名字叫威廉·霍华德·赫斯特（William Howard Hurst）。赫斯特最大的粉丝将做客我们的演播室，他就是苏圣玛丽市长马修·舒梅克（Matthew Shoemaker）。
英文原文
>> We've had 26 premers in Ontario since 1867, but only one from Sue St. Marie. His name was William Howard Hurst. Hurst's biggest fan will join us in studio, the mayor of the Sue, Matthew Shoemaker.在你的专栏，也就是我的专栏里，我会谈谈省长在华盛顿之行中未达成的目标。
英文原文
>> And in your column, my column, I'll talk about what the premier didn't achieve on his DC trip.我写了一篇人物专访，对象是首位宣布加入安大略省自由党党魁角逐的人。他名叫迪伦·米兰达（Dylan Miranda）。是的，如果你好奇的话，他确实是以鲍勃·迪伦（Bob Dylan）的名字命名的。
英文原文
>> And I've got a profile up on the first guy who jumped into the Ontario Liberal Leadership Race. His name Dylan Miranda. And yes, if you were wondering, he was named after Bob Dylan.今天是2026年6月12日，星期五。让我们马上开始吧。[音乐]
JMM，
英文原文
>> It's Friday, June 12th, 2026. So, let's get to it. [music]JMM,
本季最后一期。
英文原文
>> final sugar of the season.确实如此。
英文原文
>> Yes, indeed.本季最后一期。我们开门见山先说一句，因为这是我们今年的最后一次节目，所以我们要加长播出时间。是的，
英文原文
>> Final sugar of the season. And we should just say off the top that because this is our last show this year, we're going long. Yes,伙计，我们要超时长了。他们给了我们额外的时间。
英文原文
>> we're going long, baby. They're giving us extra time.他们给了我们整整一个小时。呃，所以有些平时电视剪辑版中会被剪掉的内容——呃，那些总能在 YouTube 上看到的内容——呃，将首次在电视上播出。
英文原文
>> They've given us a full hour. Uh so some parts that normally get cut off for the TV edit uh that always make it into YouTube uh will will make it to air for the first time.我们现在要在电视上一整小时尽情展现我们十足的书呆子本色了。嗯，我是说，我完全可以一直聊下去。
英文原文
>> We're now going to indulge in our full-fledged nerdom for the entire hour on television. Well, I mean, I could just keep going forever.是的。[笑声] 嗯，这我们都知道。这我们都知道。本周早些时候，像往常一样，我们在开头先处理一些内务琐事。本周早些时候，我参加了多伦多大学的几场毕业典礼。我总是很好奇究竟是谁看、谁不看这个节目，因为，你知道，嗯，虽然显然也有对政治感兴趣的年轻人，但我认为可以这么说，大多数更感兴趣的人，呃，往往是，你知道，50岁以上的人群。他们有房贷，或者有孩子，或者，你知道，在医疗体系、教育体系中有切身利益。嗯，所以当时非常令人高兴的是，有两个年轻人，一个叫科迪（Cody），一个叫哈姆扎（Hamza），都在多伦多大学的这场典礼上走近我并说：“超喜欢这个播客。一直在听。一期不落。”所以，我本周要向他们致意。
英文原文
>> Yeah. [laughter] Well, this we know. This we know. Earlier this week, we got a bunch of housekeeping stuff off the top as usual. Earlier this week, I attended a couple of convocations at the University of Toronto. And I'm always fascinated by who either does or does not watch this show because, you know, um, while there are young people obviously who are interested in politics, I think it's fair to say that most people who are more interested, uh, tend to be, you know, people who are 50 plus. They've got mortgages or kids or, you know, a stake in the healthare system. education system. Um, and so it was delightful when two guys, one named Cody, one named Hamza, both approached me at this convocation at U of to say, "Love the podcast. Listen to it all the time. Never miss it." So, I'm giving him a shout out this week.谢谢你，科迪。
英文原文
>> Thank you, Cody.真是件美事。
英文原文
>> That's a beautiful thing.话说你今天到底穿的是什么？[笑声] 看着完全莫名其妙。
英文原文
>> Now, what are you wearing today exactly? [laughter] That looks completely nonsensical.呃，确实有点，呃，莫名其妙。这件衬衫基本上画的是一只鸭嘴兽。就像——我就不在音频里费力多加描述了。如果你能在电视上看到，你就能看到。但它就是一只鸭子和一只海狸变成了鸭嘴兽。所以，我们所有人在世界上走动，[笑声]
英文原文
>> Uh, it is somewhat uh nonsensical. This is a shirt about basically a platypus. It's it like I won't try to describe it too much for the audio. If you can see it on TV, you can see it. But it's it's a a duck and a beaver becoming a platypus. So, we all walk around [laughter] the world.我特别想知道这话题要往哪儿引。
英文原文
>> I'm dying to know where this is going.把各种事物分门别类。而我今天打算深入元层面。[笑声] 呃，你知道，我们、我们[清嗓子]把事物归入不同类别。那是我们理解世界的一种方式。而我喜欢鸭嘴兽，因为鸭嘴兽的存在提醒了我们：类别都是人为编造出来的，而且、而且、而且它只是我们构建出来的东西。鸭嘴兽根本不在乎你认为哺乳动物应该是什么样的。它是哺乳动物，而且它下蛋。它是、它是这种水生生物，腿上还带有毒刺。它就像是因为上帝某天感到无聊，用闲置零件拼凑出来的怪异大杂烩生物。我、我、我太喜欢它了。它是一个提醒，让我们不要太把分类当真。而且，呃，我会把这个道理应用在政治上，在政治中我们总会说些——我们，你和我总会使用像左翼、进步派、保守派或诸如此类的词。我认为这是一个重要的启示，不要太把那些类别或标签当真，这样你今天就更切题一些。
英文原文
>> Putting things into categories. And I'm I'm going meta today. [laughter] Uh you know, and we we [clears throat] put things into categories. And that is a way we make sense of the world. And I love the platypus because the platypus is there to remind us that the categories are all made up and and and it is just something that we construct. The platypus does not care what you think a mammal should be. It is a mammal and it lays eggs. It is it it is this aquatic creature that also has poison tips on its legs. It is just this weird grabag of a creature put together out of spare parts because God got bored one day. And I I I love it so much. And it is a reminder that not to take categories too seriously. And uh I would apply this lesson in politics where we say things like we you and I will always use terms like left-wing or progressive or conservative or whatever it is. I think it's an important lesson to to not take those categories or those labels too seriously that you're a bit more on brand today.安省天主教学校资助的历史回顾
嗯，我、我很切合主题，但不是我想成为的那个人，你知道，我确实会在日历上做些小标记，以此提醒自己，哦，今天适合穿这件T恤。以这种好方式穿这件T恤。几个月前当我看到这个日期的临近，我心想，好吧，这是穿比尔·戴维斯（Bill Davis）的最佳日子。比尔·戴维斯于1959年6月11日首次当选，对吧？当时作为一名来自皮尔县（如当时所称）的29岁小伙子，
英文原文
>> Well, I'm I'm on brand, but not the guy who I I thought I'd be, you know, I do mark little things in my calendar to sort of remind myself, oh, this is a good day to wear this t-shirt. This a good way to wear this t-shirt. And when I saw months ago this date coming, I thought to myself, okay, this is the perfect day to wear Bill Davis. Bill Davis got elected for the first time June 11th, 1959, right? As a 29year-old kid from Peele County, as it was then called,当时布兰普顿镇（Bmpton）所在的地方。
英文原文
>> where the town of Bmpton was.所以他的第一次当选是在1950——那么算起来就是昨天刚好67年前，好吗？是他的首次当选。然后是日历上最——你知道，从立法成就的角度来看，有些人会说是最美妙的日子之一，另一些人则会说是日历上令人不祥的日子，因为他在1984年6月12日，也就是历史上的今天，做出了安大略省政治史上最重大的决定之一。
当时经历过那段时期且关注教育、政治和宗教交织动态的人，都会清楚地记得这一天，因为作为省长的戴维斯先生决定，对罗马天主教独立学校系统延长全额公共资助直至高中毕业。我们在这里上一堂快速的历史课。当我们在1867年成为加拿大时，联邦成立之初达成的妥协是：你们魁北克的人必须公资资助你们的新教学校，而我们安大略的人将必须公费资助天主教学校。我能做一个小小的修正吗？那笔协议呃、早于联邦建立，1867年的宪法规定，早已存在的那项协议将继续有效。
英文原文
>> So his first election was 1950. So what does that make it 67 years ago yesterday, okay? Was his first election. And then one of the most, you know, some people would say wonderful dates on the calendar in terms of legislative accomplishments, others would say ominous dates on the calendar because he made one of the most fateful decisions in Ontario political history on the 12th of June, this date in 1984.And people who follow the mix of education, politics, and religion who were around at the time will remember this day well because Mr. Davis as premier decided to extend full public funding to the end of high school for the Roman Catholic separate school system. We're going to do a fast history lesson here. When we became Canada in 1867, the original bargain at Confederation was you folks in Quebec have to publicly fund your Protestant schools and we folks in Ontario are going to have to publicly fund Catholic schools. Can I one small correction that that deal uh pre predated confederation the the constitution of 1867 says that that deal that already existed would remain in place.
完全正确。不过，宪法还规定，当时的协议是必须资助普通公立学校（common schools）。是的，
英文原文
>> Absolutely right. However, the constitution also says the deal was you had to fund common schools. Yes,普通公立学校。在当时那意味着资助到8年级，而那些不一定想在另一个学校系统的更多资助上花更多钱的政府抓住了这一点，他们说：“好的，我们只资助到8年级结束。我们只需做到这一步。”因此从1867年起的整整一百年里，安大略省只资助天主教学校系统到8年级。
结果天主教学校陷入了一些财务困难。因此，比尔·戴维斯在担任教育部长时，决定将天主教系统的公共资助延长到我想大概是九年级和十年级。好的，这带你到了1960年代中期。
但随后天主教社群在接下来的几十年里继续进行游说，说：“得了吧，我们的学校又不是到十年级就结束了。孩子们显然还会读11、12和13年级，就像我们当年那样。你知道，如果要讲公平，你真的应该一路资助我们的学校系统直到高中结束。”事实上，戴维斯先生在1971年举行了一场新闻发布会，他在会上表示，我听到了来自天主教社群的声音，但我们不打算那样做。而且由于当时安大略省大约有90%是白人盎格鲁-撒克逊新教徒，那些盎格鲁-撒克逊新教徒在某种程度上非常喜欢戴维斯先生在某种程度上给天主教徒以回击的做法。在71年作为保守党新党魁的戴维斯先生，随后赢得了比他从约翰·罗伯茨（John Roberts）那里继承下来的席位更多的多数席位，他能做到这一点部分正是踩在天主教学校资助问题之上。
英文原文
>> common schools. And at the time that meant up to grade 8 and governments that did not necessarily want to spend more money on more funding for the other school system took that to the bank and they said, "Okay, we're only funding to the end of grade 8. That's all we have to do." So from 1867 for a hundred years, Ontario only funded the Catholic school system to grade 8.They were in some financial difficulty as a result. And so Bill Davis when he was the minister of education decided to extend public funding to the Catholic system for grades I guess nine and 10. Okay, that takes you to the middle 1960s.
But then the Catholic community continued to lobby for the next couple of decades saying, "Come on, our schools don't end at grade 10. The kids obviously stay in for 11, 12, and 13 as we had back in the day. and you know if you're going to be fair you really should fund our school system right to the end of high school and Mr. Davis in fact in 1971 held a press conference in which he said I have heard from the Catholic community and we are not going to do that and because Ontario at that time was kind of 90% white Anglo-Saxon Protestant the Wasps kind of loved how Mr. Davis kind of stuck it to the Catholics and Mr. Davis who was the new leader of the Tories in 71 then won a larger majority than he had inherited from John Roberts and he did it in part on the backs of the Catholic school funding issue.
是的。
英文原文
>> Yes.我认为这多年来总是让他感到有些内疚。结果，呃，1984年6月12日，在经历了枢机主教们多年来的大量游说之后，他决定坚持到底，并且在不一定获得他当时的教育部长同意的情况下，决定将天主教系统的全额公共资助延长到高中毕业。天主教系统欣喜若狂。公立部门系统则不然。我还记得在1985年安大略省大选的前夕——戴维斯先生此时已经退休了——多伦多的圣公会大主教，一位名叫刘易斯·加恩斯沃西（Lewis Garnsworthy）的人，在新闻发布会上说：“希特勒当年在德国就是通过法令这样改变教育政策的。我无法苟同一个人怎么可以仅仅凭一己之意做出决定，就改变全省的教育体系。”那是令人极其震惊的一番话。
英文原文
>> Which I think always made him feel a little guilty over the years. And as a result, uh, June 12th, 1984, he decided to, after lots of lobbying by the Cardinals over the years, he decided to go all the way to the end and without necessarily the agreement of his own minister of education at the time, decided to extend full public funding to the end of high school for the Catholic system. The Catholic system were thrilled. The public sector system was not. And I remember in the leadup to the 1985 Ontario election, Mr. Davis is now retired at this point, the Anglican Archbishop of Toronto, man by the name of Lewis Garnsworthy, at a press conference said, "This is how Hitler changed education policy in Germany by decree. And I disagree with how one man can simply make a decision and change the education system in the province." It was a shocking thing to say.是的。尽管该政策差不多早在一年前就已经宣布，但这确实激起了对该政策的大量焦虑。我想在那天，针对刘易斯·加恩斯沃西说“希特勒当年在德国就是这样改变教育政策的”的那场新闻发布会，我要考你的最后一个琐事问题是：你知道是谁提问并得到了那个回答吗？
英文原文
>> Yes. And even though the policy had sort of been announced almost a year earlier, it did stir up a great deal of angst about the policy. And I guess my last trivia question for you on that date at the press conference where Lewis Garnsworthy said, "This is how Hitler changed education policy in Germany." Do you know who asked the question that got that response?是史蒂夫（Steve）
英文原文
>> Was it StevePacin？
英文原文
Pacin?你眼前看的就是他，朋友。［笑声］
我跟你说，所有这些都是想说，我今天本来应该穿比尔·戴维斯（Bill Davis）的衬衫，但我没穿，是因为我们稍后要来的嘉宾。他要聊的是威廉·霍华德·赫斯特（William Howard Hearst），苏圣玛丽（Sault Ste. Marie）走出的唯一一位省长，我想出于对我们嘉宾的尊重——好的，就是这样。我今天穿的是威廉·霍华德·赫斯特，稍后我们会听到更多关于他的事。天哪，扯得可真够远的，不是吗？
英文原文
>> You're looking at him, buddy. [laughter]I tell you, all of that is to say I should be wearing Bill Davis's shirt today, but I'm not because of our guest who's coming up later. He's going to talk about William Howard Hurst, the only premier from Sous St. Marie and I thought out of respect to our guest. Okay, there we are. I'm wearing William Howard Hurst today and we'll hear more about him later. Boy, that's a long digression, isn't it?
是啊，我只是很惊讶我们居然能让你不穿比尔·戴维斯。［笑声］
英文原文
>> Yeah, I'm just amazed that we got you to not wear Bill Davis. [laughter]不能天天都让他上阵嘛。好了。那么，我们进入第一个议题吧。
嗯，既然这是本季的最后一期节目，我想是我们的第六季，是不是？做这个节目的第六季。
英文原文
>> Can't have him on every day. There we go. And with that, let's get to issue one.Well, since this is the final show of this, our sixth, I think, isn't it? Sixth season of doing this.
听起来差不多。第六季，第七季。
英文原文
>> That sounds right. Sixth, seventh.我想是第六或第七季吧。我不知道。其实我们已经数不清了。总之，我是在 TVO 这里主持 #onpoli 播客。
英文原文
>> Sixth or seven, I think. I don't know. We've lost count, actually. Anyway, I'm doing the OnPy podcast here on TVO.可能是第八季。耳机里刚有人告诉我。可能吗？我们已经糊涂到这种地步了吗？都不记得了。行吧。不管怎样。我们做这个已经有一阵子了。是的。所以，我们想着来回顾一下今年的一些重大进展，随后就将进入一个异乎寻常的漫长暑期休会，议会要到 10 月下旬才会复会。那么，JMM，我们从哪里开始？
英文原文
>> It might be eight. I was just told in my ear. Is that possible? Are we that out of it? We can't remember. Okay. Well, whatever. We've been doing this for a bit. Yes. So, we thought we'd recap some of the major developments of the year heading into what will be an unusually long summer break before the House returns in late October. So, JMM, where do we begin?春季立法与政策回顾
嗯，我们来谈谈政府在这个简短会期内通过立法所完成的一些事情吧。当然，他们通过了预算案，正如他们每年春季必须做的那样。预算案包含若干措施，包括宣布了一些他们后来推进的内容，以及针对比利·毕晓普机场（Billy Bishop Airport）的变动。还有我们之前谈到过的那些常规内容，比如扩大的公交投资、北部高速公路之类的。预算案中没有包含、而我在我们 tvo.org 网站上撰文认为可能本该包含的内容，则是省长想买一架私人飞机的愿望。内阁买了一架私人飞机，随后在遭遇惨败、像俗话说的“铅气球”一样坠地之后，又迅速把它卖掉了——我想这是把我的航空比喻给混杂了。而那件事，我认为确实在今年春季吸走了太多的关注，就实际所耗费的时间而言，那是一场相对短暂的争议，但它确实在那么长时间里主导了政治关注。当然，政府确实提出的另一项立法事项是对信息自由法的修改。我本周在别人的播客——“进步加拿大”（Progress Canada）播客上就说过，我其实感到挺惊讶的，因为我之前可能有点太愤世嫉俗地以为，信息自由法的修改会是一个过于内部圈子的问题，太像一个——我讨厌用这个词，但就像是——省议会（Queen's Park）圈子内部的问题。而让我吃惊的是，很多人都理解了那个问题。它确实不如私人飞机事件那么惹眼，我承认私人飞机确实完全占据了人们的注意力，但这项变动——人们明白，这种通过追溯性地修改信息自由法来隐瞒事情的做法，看着很难看，实际上也很糟糕。
英文原文
>> Well, let's talk about some of the things that were uh accomplished legislatively uh by the government uh in this short session. Uh they did, of course, pass the budget as they must uh every spring. the the budget had uh a number of measures including uh you know announcing uh some of what they've since brought forward and including uh changes to Billy Bishop Airport. Um uh the usual uh stuff we've uh talked about uh before uh you know expanded uh transit investments uh uh northern highways that kind of thing. Um what was not in the budget which I have argued uh on our website at tvO.org probably should have been uh was uh the premier's desire to buy a private jet. Uh the cabinet uh bought a private jet and then uh promptly sold it again when that uh went down like the proverbial uh lead balloon uh to I guess mix my aeronautical uh metaphors. Um you know and that that I think really did suck up just so much of the oxygen uh this spring that that uh relatively short controversy in terms of the actual uh uh time it took uh and yet uh it really dominated uh the the political attention for so long. Uh, of course, one of the other legislative ma matters that the uh government did introduce were changes to uh freedom of information laws. And I was saying on uh somebody else's podcast, I was on the Progress Canada podcast uh uh this week. Um I I was actually surprised at you know what I kind of perhaps too cynically thought that the uh changes to freedom of information law would be too much of an insider issue, too much of a you know, I hate to use the phrase, but like a Queens Park bubble issue. Um, and I was surprised at that a lot of people got that one. Uh, you know, not it it's not quite as flashy as the private jet issue. I I will grant that that really dominated people's attention, but uh the the change people understood the the sort of retroactively changing freedom of information laws to to hide things um looks bad and is bad. Um然后是政府宣布对安省学生援助计划（OSAP）的改革，以及可以说是为时过晚的学费冻结的终结。显而易见，这是试图使该省的中学后教育领域重回财务正轨。大专和大学在财务上确实举步维艰，因此政府允许它们提高学费，但同时也正在把 OSAP 从主要以助学金为主转变为实际上更多依赖贷款。所以，是的，他们是在帮助大专和大学，但学生们在此承受财务打击，自然感到愤怒。最后，我认为我们必须谈谈比利·毕晓普机场，对此我们还会多聊一些。我认为，这个略显突如其来的宣布是：省政府将接管多伦多市对湖心岛机场的土地以及管理职责，并希望看到它扩建以容纳更大的飞机、喷气式客机——而该机场在历史上从未有过喷气机。这既带来了这项宣布本身的争议，也是实实在在地从市政府手中夺权，而这如今也演变成了一场更广泛的政治争议。嗯，我认为这就概括了我们到目前为止在春季所看到的一切。
英文原文
then there was the government's announced changes to OSAP and uh the the u arguably very late uh uh end to the tuition freeze. Uh obviously this uh is an attempt to uh write the financial ship of the uh uh province's post-secary education space. uh colleges and universities really struggling financially and so the uh government is uh letting them lift their tuitions and uh is uh but is also changing OSAP from being primarily grant-based to uh really much more reliant on loans. So yes, they're helping uh colleges and universities, but students understandably uh are are angry at taking a financial hit here. And finally, I think we got to talk about uh Billy Bishop Airport, which we're going to talk about a bit more. I think um this uh announcement kind of out of nowhere that uh the province is going to take over the city's uh lands and the city's uh role in uh governing the uh airport on Toronto Island and uh wants to see it expanded to accommodate larger planes, jets uh in that airport that that has historically never had jets before. Uh there was both the controversy of the announcement and and really like seizing power away from the city and that has now uh uh turned into a a broader uh political controversy uh as well. Uh that uh uh well you know yeah that's I think rounds up everything that we saw in the spring so far.嗯，事实上，在比利·毕晓普机场的问题上，焦点现在很大程度上转移到了联邦政府身上；当然，在多伦多市的 24 个席位中，有 23 席是自由党国会议员，目前正有巨大的压力施加在这 23 位国会议员身上，就像在问：“你们大家人在哪里？你们有没有试图向总理挑明，特别是在靠近湖岸的选区里，存在着相当大的反对扩建比利·毕晓普机场的声音？”我还得回头再提一下私人飞机的事。噢，其实在我提那件事之前，就在我们今天坐在这里录音之际，多伦多港务局（Toronto Port Authority）实际上正在召开一次公开会议，届时——
英文原文
Well, and and in fact, uh, on the Billy Bishop file issue, the focus has now very much moved to the federal government, which of course has 23 of the 24 seats are Liberal MPs in the city of Toronto, and there is great pressure being brought to bear on those 23 MPs, as in, you know, where are you folks? Are are you trying to impress upon the prime minister that there's considerable opposition particularly in the writings closer to the waterfront uh against expanding uh Billy Bishop Airport and and I have to go back to the private jet for a second. Oh actually before I do that as we sit here taping this today the Toronto Port Authority is actually having a public meeting at which time我想他们届时会公布港务局董事会的联邦任命人员名单。因此，这会在某种程度上给我们一些风向标，显然，如果被任命的是反对扩建的人士，那一方面将释放出马克·卡尼（Mark Carney）的立场信号。
英文原文
>> they will be I think unveiling the names of the federal appointees to the uh port authorities board. So that will give us some indication about you know obviously if there are opponents to expansion who are being appointed that would signal Mark Carney's position on the one hand.是的。或者，如果是亲商界人士被任命进董事会，那肯定会传递出另一种信号。
英文原文
Yes. Or if there are pro business types being appointed to the board that would certainly signal something else.是的。
英文原文
Yes.联邦政府目前发起了一项公众咨询。他们开放了一个网站，供公众在接下来的大约 6 周内进行咨询，邀请人们就此发表意见。但是，好吧，邹至莉（Olivia Chow）出于种种原因，对此并没有多说什么。她是持反对态度的，但并没怎么表态。道格·福特（Doug Ford），我们知道他的立场。我们仍在等待了解联邦政府对此究竟想怎么做——
英文原文
>> The feds have put out a consultation right now. Uh they've opened the um I think a website for um consultation from the public for the next 6 weeks or so and people are invited to make comments about it. But but okay Olivia Chow has for a bunch of reasons not had a lot to say about this. she's against but hasn't had a lot to say. Doug Ford, we know where he stands. We're still waiting to find out what the federal government wants to do about this——而搞清楚这一点将会非常引人关注。
英文原文
>> and that will be intriguing to find out.是的，那绝对会是我在整个夏天关注的事情之一。我不太确定该对已经启动的公众咨询抱有多认真的态度。我认为最悲观的看法是，这只是政府走过场的一项打勾差事，好让他们能说：“瞧，我们做过公众咨询了。”依然有点愤世嫉俗、但也许多多少少没那么愤世嫉俗的视角是，政府在拖延时间。联邦政府在拖延时间，对吧？他们真正想做的事——我之前在播客上也提出过这个假说——就是他们想把任何决定都拖到市选之后再做；而在咨询进行期间，他们可以继续执行他们的沉默政策（如果我可以这么说的话），而且他们可以说：“噢，我们在等公众表达意见。”关于这件事我收到了很多邮件，那些邮件中不断被提及的一个观点就是：在根本没有具体方案可供咨询的情况下，我们怎么进行公众咨询？
英文原文
>> Yeah, that's absolutely going to be one of the things that I watch over the summer. Uh I I'm not quite sure how seriously to take the the public consultation that has been launched. I think um the the most cynical take is that this is just a box checking exercise for the government to say, "Well, we did a public consultation." Um the still kind of cynical but perhaps slightly less cynical um uh perspective is that uh the government is playing for time. The federal government is playing for time, right? what they really would like to do and I' I've offered this hypothesis before on the podcast is uh that what they want to do is is wait to make any decision after the municipal election that uh you know while the consultation is ongoing they can continue their policy of silence if I can put it that way and they can say oh well we're waiting for the people to weigh in. I get a lot of emails about this and one of the constant points being made in those emails is how can we have a public consultation when there is no plan about which to be consulted?没有计划。而对比利·毕晓普机场扩建的支持者来说更糟糕的是，我们不仅没有任何具体的方案来让人表示支持或反对，而且就目前可供支持或反对的内容而言，它代表的是省长；而我非常强烈地怀疑——我从一些人那里、特别是从港务局负责人所发表的一些引述中得到的印象是——他非常希望人们不要把这理解为福特省长的机场计划，因为——
英文原文
>> No. And worse still for the proponents of the uh airport expansion, not only do we not have any specific plan to be for or against, but in so far as there is anything to be for or against, it's the premier and I very strongly suspect I I get the the um impression from uh some people uh particularly some some quotes that the head of the Port Authority has offered that uh he would very much like for people to not understand this as Premier Ford's airport plan because如果这仅仅是作为港务局和某些商业利益集团提出的一个方案呈现在人们面前，那是一回事。对于那种方案，你会有某种辩论方式，需要说明的是，那依然不能保证通过，对吧？甚至对目前的湖心岛机场，一直以来都存在着非常激烈的反对声音；我认为这在多伦多并不占多数意见，但只要我住在这里，这种声音就一直存在。而当它变成了道格·福特的机场提议时，那就是一场截然不同的争论了，而向联邦——
英文原文
>> it it's one thing if this is simply offered as a a um a plan being proposed by the Port Authority and certain business interests. uh you know you would have one type of argument about that and to be clear it's still not guaranteed right there's always been a very vocal opposition to even the current uh island airport uh I don't think it's a majority opinion in Toronto but this has always existed as as long as I've lived here um when it is Doug Ford's airport proposal that is a totally different argument and uh the the the question being put to federal自由党国会议员/省议员（MPP）现在的情况是，这并不像是“嘿，港务局或者商业利益集团之类提出了这么一个方案”。而变成了“你为什么要支持道格·福特（Doug Ford）的机场方案”，这在政治意义上完全不同。
英文原文
liberal MP PS right now is is not like the hey there's this plan that has been offered by the port authority or you know business interests or whatever. It's why are you supporting Doug Ford's airport plan which has a totally different political veence.完全是，这完全把它以另一种方式拉入了政治漩涡。现在，我们在今年夏天将要关注的另一场大辩论是安大略省自由党，他们当然又回到原点，开始物色另一位党领了。
英文原文
>> Totally totally puts it into politics in a different way. Now another great debate we're going to watch unfold uh over the summer is the provincial liberal party which is of course back there looking for another leader.安省自由党领袖竞选与市镇选举
是的。随着角逐展开，这场竞争看起来会非常耐人寻味。我认为到目前为止，我们已经看到了主要的人物阵容，至少主要党领候选人都已经正式宣布参选了。自然，他们会提出自己的主张，阐述他们希望在安大略省看到的变革，大家对该党应该朝哪个方向前进也有不同的想法。此外，还会有一些我比较关注的事情，就是关于自由党的发展方向以及党内改革那些更吹毛求疵、技术性的细节。我想我们上周谈到了限制自由党党员资格、只对公民开放，而不允许非公民在党内候选人提名竞选中投票的想法。这显然是一个有争议的提案。不仅在目前的党领竞选中，而且在今后相当长一段时间内，都会引发辩论。但这些都是我所关注的思路，看看哪些候选人不仅在提出公共政策方面的变革——这我当然觉得足够有趣了——而且还在提出这些细节方面的变革，因为这归根结底是一个推选自由党领袖的问题，而他们向自由党党员推介自己的分量不亚于其他任何事情。现在，当涉及到全省范围内的选举或党代会时，这可能是最大的新闻，但当然，我们现在正处于市政选举年。是的，我知道你和我都会特别关注其中的两场竞选。你比较关注紧邻我们左边的那个地方，对吧？
英文原文
>> Yes. And so this contest is going to be very interesting to watch as it unfolds. Uh we've already I think we've seen at this point the the the primary cast of characters at least in terms of the main leadership uh candidates uh have all announced formally and uh you know they will naturally be making uh their pitches for you know the kinds of changes they want to see in Ontario and and there's different um ideas about which way the party should move forward and and then there's also going to be stuff that I pay attention to that is kind of like more finicky nerdy details about the the direction of the Liberal Party and reforms within the party. Uh we we spoke I think last week about uh the idea of uh restricting the membership of the Liberal Party to uh uh citizens and and not letting uh non-citizens vote for uh nomination races. Uh that is obviously a a controversial proposal. It will be debated uh not just in this current leadership uh race but uh going forward for some time. But those are the kinds of uh ideas that uh I'll be looking to to see uh which uh candidates are are proposing uh changes not just to public policy which of course I find uh interesting enough um but also these these details because it is ultimately a question of uh you know choosing the leader of the Liberal party and uh and and what are you know they're making a pitch to Liberal members as much as anything else. Now, that may be the biggest story when it comes to elections slashconventions proincially, but of course, we're in a municipal election year. Yes. And I know you and I are going to have our eyes on two races in particular. You like the one right next door to the left of us, right?呃，是的。在常规朝北的地图上，密西沙加（Mississauga）就在我们左边的城市。所以，这看起来会是一场某种程度上的有趣重赛。卡罗琳·帕里什（Carolyn Parrish）目前是密西沙加市长，她在邦妮·克龙比（Bonnie Crombie）离任后赢得了一场特别选举。在那场选举中，她战胜了众多候选人，其中包括阿尔文·泰乔（Alvin Tedjo）和迪皮卡·戴梅拉（Dipika Damerla）。他们现在都宣布将再次竞选市长挑战帕里什。所以，这算是一场重头对决。拭目以待会很有意思。
英文原文
>> Uh yes. Uh [laughter] in a normal normal northern oriented map, Missaga is the city to the left of us. Um and uh yeah, so that is looking like an interesting uh rematch of of sorts. Um uh Carolyn Parish is currently uh the mayor of Missaga and she won a special election after Bonnie Crombi uh left that post. Uh and in that election uh she prevailed over uh numerous candidates but including uh Alvin Tedjo and uh Dipica Deura. Uh they have now both announced that they are running for mayor against uh Parish again. And so uh bit of a rematch there. Will be interesting to see. Um不过你知道吗？
英文原文
>> you know what though?卡罗琳·帕里什，我刚才查了一下。卡罗琳·帕里什在选举日那天也才刚刚80岁，按密西沙加的标准来看，她还算个年轻小辈呢。
英文原文
>> Carolyn Parish, I just looked it up. Carolyn Parish will only be 80 years old on election day, which makes her a spring chicken by Missaga standards.按照黑泽尔·麦考莲（Hazel McCallion）的标准来看的话。是的。不过这会很有意思，因为泰乔在特别选举中差距极小。他当时非常有竞争力，也许这一次他会获得更多支持。但帕里什是现任者，我总觉得市镇选举对现任者来说通常更容易一些，就像所有选举一样，但在市镇层面上尤为如此。所以，那里会非常引人注目。不知道呢，你那边有在关注的竞选吗？
英文原文
>> By the standards of Hazel Mallen. [laughter] Yes. Um but you know it will it will be interesting because Tedjo came awfully close uh in the special election. Uh he was very competitive and you know perhaps it will be uh uh perhaps he will have uh more uh support this time. Um but you know Parish is the incumbent and I I always think that municipal elections are generally easier for incumbents as as all elections are um but particularly municipally. So, uh, it would be very interesting, uh, there. Um, I don't know, you have a race you're watching.我要把地图再往左移一点。是的。
英文原文
>> I'm going a little further left on the map. Yes.我认为加拿大安大略省哈密尔顿市的这场竞选，是安大略省今年最精彩的市镇市长选举。是的。我们有现任市长安德里亚·霍沃思（Andrea Horwath）参选，对阵基南·卢米斯（Keenan Loomis），后者是她上一次以微弱优势险胜的候选人。他当时还是初次参选的新人。然后是罗伯·库珀（Rob Cooper），他是市议会的新成员，大约六个月前，或者我现在想可能更久一点，大约八个月前赢得了一场补选，并且也引起了不小的轰动。三位强有力的候选人，一位争取连任，两位试图击败现任市长，我打算重点关注那场竞选。事实上，我已经排好要去主持一场市长选举辩论了。秋天的时候。他们已经登记让我去主持其中一场了。所以，我认为这将会是一场精彩的选战。
英文原文
>> I think the race in the Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, is the best municipal mayor's race in the province of Ontario this year. Yes. And we've got Andrea Horvath, who's the incumbent mayor running against Keenan Lumis, who's the candidate whom she barely defeated last time. He was a first time out the gate candidate. And then Rob Cooper, who's a new entrant on city council, won a bi-election about six months ago and has, or I guess a little longer ago now, maybe eight months ago, and has uh made a bit of a splash for himself as well. Three strong candidates, one running for reelection, two running to upset the current mayor, and I I'm going to have my eye on that one. In fact, I'm already lined [laughter] up to do a a mayoral um election debate. Oh, okay. In the fall. They've already got me signed up to moderate one of those. So, uh I think it's going to be a great race.好的。我想提的另一个，是我的家乡渥太华市。显然，那里的市长马克·萨特克利夫（Mark Sutcliffe）已经宣布了他的连任竞选活动，但是我看到的联络策略公司（Liaison Strategies）的至少一份民调显示，那可能也是一场竞争激烈的选战。而且，我相信全省各地还会有其他一些选举因各种看点而引起我们的关注。
英文原文
>> All right. Um, and the other one that I want to mention, uh, my hometown, uh, the city of Ottawa, uh, obviously Mark Sutcliffe, the mayor there, has announced his, uh, re-election campaign, but, uh, at least one poll that I've seen from liaison strategies shows that might be a a competitive race as well. And, you know, uh, I'm I'm sure there will be other elections around the province that we uh, flag for various points of interest.省议会补选
那我们能不能顺带提几个省级的？
英文原文
>> Well, let's Can we flag a couple provincial ones?好啊，来吧。
英文原文
>> Yeah, let's do it.即将到来的补选，对吧？
英文原文
>> Bi-elections coming up, right?没错。我们当然有士嘉堡西南选区（Scarborough Southwest）的补选，关于这个选区，我们在这个播客里可能已经讨论得不厌其烦了。但是那场补选确实需要宣布举行，而且当然，随着卡罗琳·马尔罗尼（Caroline Mulroney）宣布退出省政坛，省议会出现了另一个空缺。我会说是暂时退出。因此那里也必须举行补选。我认为新闻记者席上的普遍共识是，省长很可能会在10月份省议会复会之前宣布举行这些补选。如果我们看到在8月中下旬举行补选之类的情况，那算是相当符合惯例的。但是，无论政府在这方面可能有过什么打算，其中一个障碍是《多伦多星报》上周报道称，保守党在士嘉堡西南选区失去了他们的候选人。他们本来希望能让前市议员加里·克劳福德（Gary Crawford）再次参选，但他选择不……
英文原文
>> That's right. We've got bi-elections in Scarbor Southwest of course which we have perhaps discussed to death on this podcast already. Um but uh that you know that bi-election does need to be called and of course there is another vacancy in the legislature with Carolyn Mr uh announcing uh her uh retirement from provincial politics. I would say like retirement for now. Um and uh so a bi-election will have to be called there. Um I think the the sort of common sense uh at least among the gallery is that uh the premier will likely call uh those bi-elections before the house returns uh in October. Um you know it would be conventional enough if we saw like a you know mid or late August bi-election that kind of thing. Um it but one of the the hitches and whatever the government might have been planning uh on this is that the Toronto Star reported last week that the Tories have lost their candidate in Scar Bro Southwest. They were hoping to run uh former city councelor Gary Crawford again. Uh he uh has opted not to uh我想可以用“婉拒了”来形容。
英文原文
>> took a pass I think is the way.是的，婉拒了。因此，进步保守党不得不去为自己另寻候选人。对他们来说幸运的是，政府掌控着补选的时机，所以他们在这方面有一些灵活性。
英文原文
>> Yes. Took a pass. Um and so the progressive conservatives have to go and find themselves another candidate. Fortunately for them the government controls the timing of bi-elections. So they've got some flexibility there.就是这样。这就是我们从过去6个月发生的事情到对夏季展望的收尾总结。现在我们继续前进。
英文原文
>> There you go. So that's our windup from what has transpired over the past 6 months to the look ahead in the summertime. And now we move on.好的。
英文原文
>> Yes.议题二：福特访美推销“北美堡垒”
进入议题二。立法议会休会并不意味着政府运作停摆。事实上，省长道格·福特本周一直在巡访美国，试图看看他的“北美堡垒”版本能否向美国受众兜售得通。他正在与参议员、州长、众议员交谈，但归根结底，他面对的是一位唯一的听众——唐纳德·特朗普（Donald Trump）总统。进展如何？
英文原文
>> Off to issue two. Just because the legislature is not sitting doesn't mean the business of government stops. In fact, Premier Doug Ford has been touring the United States this week trying to see if his version of Fortress North America uh to an American audience can be sold. He's talking to senators, governors, representatives, but of course ultimately he's talking to an audience of one, President Donald Trump. How's that going?不太理想。那么，首先从省长正在推销的这个“北美堡垒”构想说起吧。这是对去年推销的方案进行的一个小幅修改版，去年的版本是“加美堡垒”，对吧？即加拿大和美国经济我猜会甩掉墨西哥，打造一个北方大陆超级大国。这一主张在去年毫无进展。剧透一下，今年到目前为止似乎也没取得什么好成绩。福特称这是向美国人民发出的信息。省政府在其网站上发布了一份所谓的完整白皮书供人们查阅。它并没有取代《加拿大-美国-墨西哥协定》，或者我想大家通称的 CUSMA……
英文原文
>> Not so great. [laughter] Um, so let's start with uh the premier is selling this vision of Fortress North America. Um, this is a slightly revised version of the uh pitch from last year which was uh Fortress Can-Am, right? the idea that uh the Canadian and American economies would I guess jettison Mexico and uh uh you know build a a northern continental superpower. Uh that message went nowhere last year. Uh spoiler alert, it does not seem to have done uh great so far this year. Um Ford, you know, was calling this a a message to the American people. There's a whole uh white paper, so to speak, that the uh uh province published on its website that people can uh look at. It it doesn't uh it doesn't replace the Canada, US, Mexico agreement or KUSMA I think is we're going with umUSMCA。
英文原文
>> USAMKA.是的，USMCA，CUSMA。因为省一级的政策当然无法修改或影响联邦谈判的贸易协定。无论省长希望通过这次推销宣传达到什么目的，似乎都没人买账，因为特朗普本周表示他不倾向于续签 CUSMA。是否宣布续约的最后期限即将在7月1日到来。不续约的决定并不会直接使协议失效或发生类似情况，它只是让协议进入了这种奇怪的搁置未决状态。所以，显然省长的推销并未触达最重要的人……
英文原文
>> Yes, Smacka. Koozma because of course provincial policy can't uh revise or affect the federally negotiated uh trade agreement. um whatever the premier was hoping to achieve with this uh sales pitch um it seems to have uh landed on deaf ears because uh Trump uh this week has said that he's not inclined to renew Koozma. Uh the that deadline is coming up on July 1st whether to announce the renewal or not. Uh the the decision not to renew doesn't like immediately invalidate the agreement or anything like that. it just sends it into this weird limbo period. Um, so clearly the the premier's sales pitch did not reach the most important我想，是受众吧。但我觉得这里显而易见的政治背景是，呃，我认为许多加拿大决策者都在观望美国中期选举的结果，也就是众议院以及参议院三分之一席位的国会选举；并且看看共和党是否会像目前许多民调所显示的那样遭受惨败，以及华盛顿的人士随后会从中吸取什么教训，对吧？呃，你知道，如果该党，如果共和党认为唐纳德·特朗普带领他们走向了，你知道，一场历史性的选举惨败，那么他们可能会开始展现出多一点的独立性，就像国父们设想的那样，分立各权力分支等等。呃，不过那些目前都还悬而未决，我们在十一月之前是不会知道那些结果的。呃，因此，呃，我认为，你知道，呃，马克·卡尼，比如总理马克·卡尼就曾表示，呃，特朗普本周的言论并不算太意外，呃，他们就打算走一步看一步。
英文原文
audience, I guess. But I think the obvious political context to to mention here is that u I think a lot of Canadian policy makers are waiting to see what happens with the US midterms, these congressional elections uh for the House and and a third of the Senate and to see uh whether uh the Republican party takes the uh beating that many current polls suggest they will and then what lessons people in Washington take from that, right? Um, you know, if uh the party, if the Republican party sees uh Donald Trump as having led them to a you know, a a historic defeat uh in elections, then uh they might start to show a bit more independence uh as uh envisioned by the founders with separate branches and all that. Um uh but uh that is all still uh you know, up in the air and we're not going to know what those results are until November. Um, and so, uh, I think, you know, uh, Mark Carney, for example, Prime Minister Mark Carney has said that, uh, Trump's remarks this week were not a huge surprise and, uh, they're going to just sort of take every day as it comes.嗯，我认为无论如何，对道格·福特来说，去美国进行这些访问能取得部分成功的一点，就是登上美国媒体。是的。
英文原文
>> Well, I think what constitutes partial success anyway for Doug Ford when he takes these trips to the United States is getting on American media. Yes.而且他在这方面做得相当不错。事实上，他那篇，呃，我怀疑在社交媒体上被分享得更多的采访之一是在 CNN 上。那么，我们来看一小段。好的。道格·福特和沃尔夫·布利策。
英文原文
>> And he's done a pretty good job of doing that. In fact, one of his uh, I I suspect more shared on social media interviews was on CNN. So, let's show a little bit of that. Okay. Doug Ford and Wolf Blitzer.“北美堡垒”旨在鼓励人们在两国进行更多投资。而当他们加大投资时，我们将看到更多的生产、更多的工作岗位、更低的成本。这就是我们需要聚焦的地方。我们拥有全世界最伟大的两个国家。而当我们携手合作时，没有任何力量能够阻挡我们。呃，中国阻挡不了我们，我们需要继续向前迈进。呃，我觉得那个言论耐人寻味的地方在于，他没有把这种情况未能实现归咎于谁。
英文原文
>> Fortress North America is about encouraging people to invest more in both countries. And when they invest more, we're going to see more production, more jobs, lower cost. That's what we need to focus on. We have two of the greatest countries in the entire world. And when we work together, there's nothing that can stop us. Uh China can't stop us, and we need to keep moving forward. Uh what I found interesting about that comment was whom he did not blame for the fact that this is not happening.是的，
英文原文
>> Yes,特朗普的名字没有出现。
英文原文
>> Trump's name did not come up.是的，它没有直接提到总统，呃，但确实暗示了我认为可能是特朗普第二任期迄今最显著的特征，那就是混乱和不可预测性。
英文原文
>> No, it did not name the president uh directly uh but did allude to I think maybe the most salient part of Trump's uh second term so far, which is the the chaos and the unpredictability.我们要再听一点这里的对话吗？
英文原文
>> Should we hear some more from this?好，再来一次，沃尔夫·布利策与道格·福特。沃尔夫，眼下最大的挑战，呃，是不确定性。
英文原文
>> Okay, once again, Wolf Blitzer and Doug Ford. The biggest challenge right now, Wolf, is uh the uncertainty.美加关系中的不确定性。
英文原文
>> The uncertainty in the US Canadian relationship.100%。存在不确定性时就不会有投资。
英文原文
>> 100%. There's no investment when there's uncertainty.你知道，我不知道去美国这一趟、呃做大量的媒体采访能否有助于应对这种不确定性，但就他所尝试的程度而言，他表现得怎么样？我——
英文原文
>> You know, I don't know that one trip to the United States uh to do tons of media can help deal with that uncertainty, but to the extent that he tried, how did he do? I福特访美成效与安大略-宾夕法尼亚谅解备忘录
我认为你不得不说，这次出访并没有取得很大的成果。呃，我的意思是，再次回到特朗普说他不会续签 CUSMA 这件事上，而且不仅在于他说了，还在于他是怎么说的。他说比如我们不需要墨西哥的任何东西，我们不需要加拿大的任何东西。他们、他们需要我们的一切，对吧？呃，确实不是一个积极的开端。我、我也想补充一点，呃，《环球邮报》报道称，福特的一场活动在白宫的要求下被取消了。呃，福特省长原定要向我信是美国商会发表讲话，而呃，显然某位与总统亲近的人士向他们施加了很大压力，促使活动被取消。所以再次说明，呃，在我看来省长并没有完全达成他想要的所有目标。呃，我想我就先说到这里。呃，话虽如此，呃，你知道，去特区出访并不是影响美国政治的唯一途径。呃，本周发生的另一件事也是，安大略省与宾夕法尼亚州签署了一份谅解备忘录。
英文原文
>> I think you've got to say that this uh trip did not uh accomplish a ton. Uh I mean just again going back to Trump saying that he uh would not uh renew Kousma and and not just that he said it but how he said it. He said like we don't need anything from Mexico. We don't need anything from Canada. They they need everything from us, right? Um not truly a positive start. I I do also want to add that uh the Glob and Mail reports that one of uh Ford's events was cancelled uh at the behest of the White House. uh Premier Ford was supposed to speak to I believe the US Chamber of Commerce and uh apparently somebody close to the president leaned on them very hard to get the event canled. So again um not clear to me that the premier accomplished uh everything he wanted to. Uh I guess I'll just leave it at that. Um that said uh you know a trip to DC is not the only way to influence uh US politics. Uh, one thing that did come out this week also was that Ontario and the state of Pennsylvania signed a memorandum of understanding.我、我必须插一句。
英文原文
>> I I have to jump in.哦，是的。宾夕法尼亚联邦。
英文原文
>> Oh, yes. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.很好。干得漂亮。
英文原文
>> Very good. Well done.呃，瞧，我、我抓住了［笑声］。这简直就像副省长那件事重演一样。
英文原文
>> Um, see, I I caught [laughter] it. This is like left tenant governor all over again.没错。
英文原文
>> That's right.呃，所以签署了一份谅解备忘录，呃，他们、他们还为此专门搞了一场新闻发布活动。呃，呃，代表安大略省的福特省长，以及代表宾夕法尼亚联邦的乔希·夏皮罗州长。呃，该备忘录包括在能源、呃关键矿产、先进制造业、农业等领域开展合作的条款。该合作将通过网络研讨会等活动来进行。这是人们能想象到的最鼓舞人心的公共政策了，网络研讨会，史蒂夫。［笑声］呃，不过你知道，这不是一项具有法律约束力的协议。这是一项两地政府基本上要彼此和睦相处的协议。呃，它是有价值的。呃——
英文原文
>> Um, so a memorandum of understanding uh was signed and uh uh they they made a whole news event out of it. Um, uh, Premier Ford representing, uh, Ontario and Governor Josh Shapiro, uh, representing, uh, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Uh, theou, uh, includes items about, uh, in cooperating, uh, on areas like energy, uh, critical minerals, advanced manufacturing, agriculture, and more. The partnership would be, uh, done through, uh, activities like webinars. This is just the most stirring public policy one can imagine, webinars, Steve. [laughter] Uh but you know this is uh not a a binding legal agreement. It's it's it's a an agreement by two two governments to basically play nice together. Um it's valuable. Uh很好的拍照作秀机会。
英文原文
>> good photo op.是个很好的拍照作秀机会。呃，而呃，引人注目的，或者至少稍微更引人注目的一件事是，呃，呃，夏皮罗州长直接向加拿大人喊话，说道，你知道，我理解你们很多人因为总统的言行举止而感到愤怒，你们基本上完全有理由愤怒。呃，我、我认为他只是希望我们不要把账算在宾夕法尼亚头上，也许如果加拿大游客想来费城和匹兹堡游玩，他会很乐意接待我们。呃，呃，你知道，从一位民选官员那里听到这些当然很不错。呃，我在此还要指出的另一件事是，夏皮罗当然是民主党内的一颗冉冉新星。他曾进入卡玛拉·哈里斯副总统候选人席位的短名单。呃，他没有选上，蒂姆·沃尔兹最终选上了。呃，但我认为没有人会觉得这就是夏皮罗角逐更高职位政治野心的终点。所以，是的，你知道，也许这对安大略来说是件好事，像夏皮罗这样的人，呃，来到女王公园，你知道，与省长聊了聊。呃，你知道，夏皮罗是个聪明人。我、我相信他不会忘了湖对岸就是安大略，但是，呃，呃，你知道，这类小型互动是……它们是政治的一个重要部分。我想如果他赢得了民主党总统候选人提名，他应该邀请多伦多蓝鸟队的总裁兼首席执行官担任他在选票上的副总统候选人，这样我们下次竞选总统时就能看到“夏皮罗与夏皮罗”（Shapiro and Chapyro）搭档了［笑声］。呃，没有啦，我只是开个玩笑。呃，再谈最后一个相关问题怎么样，那就是酒。这对我来说很不可思议，道格·福特把肯塔基波本威士忌从 LCBO 的货架上下架，竟然仍然成了两国之间的一个巨大痛点。关于这点，省长有什么说法吗？
英文原文
>> It's a good photo op. Um and uh the the what was uh noteworthy or at least one of the things that was a bit more noteworthy there. Um uh Governor Shapiro uh did directly address uh Canadians saying, you know, I understand that a lot of you are angry because of the behavior and the the the words of uh the president and you have a right right to your anger basically. Um I I think he just hopes that we don't hold it against Pennsylvania and maybe if Canadian tourists wanted to visit Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, he would be happy to have us. Um uh and you know that was nice to hear from an elected official of course. Uh the other thing I would note here is that Shapiro is of course a rising star in the Democratic party. He was on the short list for Kla Harris's vice presidential slot. Uh he did not get it. Tim Walls ended up getting it. Uh but I don't think anybody thinks that that is the end of Shapiro's uh political ambitions in higher office. And uh so yeah, you know, maybe it's good for Ontario that somebody like Shapiro uh comes to Queens Park, you know, has a a chat with the premier. Uh you know, Shapiro is a smart guy. I'm I'm sure it's not like he's forgotten that Ontario exists on the other side of the lake there, but uh uh you know, the these kinds of small interactions are um they're an important part of politics. I think if he gets the Democratic presidential nomination, he should ask the president and CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays to be his vice presidential candidate on the ticket so we could have a Shapiro and Chapyro ticket running for president [laughter] next time. Um, no, I'm just being silly. Uh, how about one last thing on this and that is booze. It is fascinating to me how Doug Ford taking Kentucky bourbon off the shelves of the LCBO has still become a huge irritant between the two countries. And what's the premier had to say about that?酒类下架与关税博弈
我想，宾夕法尼亚也是在州级层面实行酒类专卖的州之一吗？我、抱歉，我、我要走神了。呃，你说得对。对美国人来说，这坦率地讲一直是一个不成比例的巨大痛点。我、我对这类事情中什么会成为、什么不会成为焦点感到非常困惑。但是是的，你知道，我们听到了特朗普内阁成员说，比如这是一个很大的症结。呃，当然，这里面有很多困惑。他们似乎不明白比如加拿大是由省组成的，比如你不能对马克·卡尼大吼大叫来让酒在安大略重新上架。
英文原文
>> I think is Pennsylvania one of those states that also has a alcohol monopoly at the state level? I sorry, I'm I'm going to get distracted. Um, you're right. This has been a uh frankly an outsized irritant to the Americans. I I am so confused about what what does and does not become like a salient point in in these kinds of things. But yeah, we've heard, you know, uh the the uh members of Trump's cabinet saying like this is a big sticking point. Um, of course, there's like a lot of confusion. They seem to not understand that like Canada has provinces and like you can't yell at Mark Carney to get alcohol back on the shelves in Ontario.各位，这不归我管。
英文原文
>> Not my department, people.呃，不过，是的，福特本周确实说了，只要关税一取消，他很乐意把美国酒重新放回货架，对吧？呃，只要经济痛苦的威胁一退去。呃，美国人当然希望在取消关税之前把酒放回货架。于是，我们陷入了有点像先有鸡还是先有蛋的局面。呃，你知道，我再次指出特朗普说他并不打算续签 CUSMA。目前看来非常清楚的是，美国政府以及至少其部分支持者，呃，他们不愿意让步。福特也不愿意让步。我不认为我们能在短期内看到美国酒重新回到 LCBO 的那些货架上。
英文原文
>> Um but uh yeah, so Ford did say uh this week that like he'd be happy to put American booze back on the shelves the moment the tariffs are gone, right? um the moment that the the the threat of economic pain uh recedes, uh the Americans of course want the booze back on the shelves before they give up on the uh tariffs. And uh so we we are in a bit of a a chicken and egg uh situation. Um you know, once again, I I'll just point like Trump saying that he's not looking to to renew Koozma. It seems to be very clear at the moment that the uh the the US administration and and at least some of its supporters um they're not willing to back down. Ford's not willing to back down. I don't think we're going to see American booze back on those shelves at the LCBO anytime soon.第三项议题：安大略历任省长与苏圣玛丽
那么，让我们进入第三项议题，来谈谈这个人。自联邦成立以来，安大略省共有过 26 位省长，但只有一位来自苏圣玛丽。因此，听说那位省长引起了现任苏圣玛丽市长的特别兴趣，你不会感到惊讶。他的名字叫马修·休梅克，而他——
英文原文
>> And with that, let's get off to issue three and talk about this guy. We have had 26 premers of Ontario since Confederation, but only one was from Sous St. Marie. And as a result, you won't be surprised to hear that premier is of particular interest to the current mayor of Sous Marie. His name is Matthew Shoemaker and he现在来到我们演播室现场。而且我得说，穿着非常得体。
英文原文
joins us now here in studio. Very appropriately attired, I might add.是的。
英文原文
>> Yes.很高兴看到你收到了关于我们这里穿着风格有所不同的提示。那么，你身上戴的是什么？
英文原文
>> I'm delighted to see you got the memo about how we sort of dress differently here. So, what are you wearing?我偶尔也会看这个播客。
英文原文
>> I've watched the pot every now and then.[笑声] 太棒了。
英文原文
[laughter] Excellent.所以，我身上佩戴的是一枚萝伯塔·邦达尔（Roberta Bondar）在 1992 年飞入太空时的飞行徽章。我们今天借着赫斯特省长（Premier Hurst）的话题来聊聊优秀的苏圣玛丽人。因此，我也想向另一位杰出的苏圣玛丽人——萝伯塔·邦达尔致敬。
英文原文
>> So, I've got on me a uh Robera Bondar's uh flight badge from her flight into space 1992. We're talking about great suitees today with Premier Hurst. And so I wanted to celebrate another great Suite in Robera Bondar.对于那些可能不太记得她的年轻人来说，她的伟大成就是：加拿大第一位进入太空的女性宇航员、世界上第一位进入太空的神经学家，而且是一位多才多艺、成就卓著的苏圣玛丽人。
英文原文
>> And for younger people who may not remember her, her great achievement was first female Canadian astronaut in space, first neurologist in the world in space and an all-around gifted uh and uh and high achieving Suite.如果我没记错的话，苏圣玛丽还有一座以她命名的航空博物馆。
英文原文
>> And there's a aviation museum in Sus Marie named after her if I remember correctly.是的，确实有。苏圣玛丽有一座航空博物馆，也就是丛林飞机博物馆。不过安大略省彩票与博彩公司的总部大楼在苏圣玛丽也被命名为萝伯塔·邦达尔大厦。正对面就是萝伯塔·邦达尔展馆，那是一个市政公园，所以她在当地备受爱戴。
英文原文
>> There is. So the uh there is a there is an aviation museum in Susie, the bush plane museum. Uh but there is also the head of the Ontario lottery and gaming corporation is named the Robera Bondar place in Susie. Right across the street is Robera Bondar Pavilion which is a municipal park and so she's admired locally.机场是以谁的名字命名的？
英文原文
>> What's who's the airport named after?进机场的那条路是以她命名的，叫萝伯塔·邦达尔医生路。
英文原文
>> Well the road into the airport is named after Robera Bond Dr. Robera Bond our way.赫斯特省长与故居探访
我们今天来这里是为了讨论这个，这是一本关于我们提到的那位独一无二、来自苏圣玛丽的省长的书。在我们开始之前，舒梅克市长（Mayor Shoemaker），请大家随我一起来看，因为我们要在这里展示一些照片，这些照片可能会引起大家的兴趣，也可能不会。
英文原文
>> We are here to talk about this which is a book on that premier we talked about who is from Sue St. Marie the one and only. Before we do that, we need to travel with me if you will, Mayor Shoemaker, because we're going to put some pictures up here, which may or may not be of interest to you.来看……我们先从哪张开始？好了。出于完全公开透明的原则，几周前我应你的盛情邀请去了苏圣玛丽，因为你为这本关于赫斯特省长的书举行了发布会。我们现在看的是什么？
英文原文
>> Let's uh What should we start with? There we go. That's Now, in the interest of full disclosure here, I was up in the Sue at your kind invitation a couple of weeks ago because you launched this book on Premier Hurst. And what are we looking at here?这是赫斯特的故居。就在苏圣玛丽的奎恩街与厄普顿街拐角处，赫斯特在 1914 年刚就任省长时建造了它。他在担任省长期间一直住在那里，或者说拥有该处房产。那段时间他有很长一部分时间住在多伦多，但在他担任省长期间，他的妻子、家人和岳母都住在那里。
英文原文
>> This is Hurst's house. This is right at the corner of Queen and Upton in Sue St. Marie and Hurst built that in 1914 just as he was becoming premier. Lived in it uh or owned it through his premiership. He lived in Toronto for a significant portion of that time, but his wife and family and mother-in-law lived there while he was premier.你知道好笑的是什么吗？我和你敲了住在那里的居民的门，说：“嗨，我们只是来参观一下这栋房子的。”他们就让我们进去了，还带我们做了一次非常棒的参观。那真是太棒了。请看下一张照片。
英文原文
>> Do you know what was hilarious? You and I knocked on the door of the people who lived there and said, "Hi, we're just here to see the house." And they let us in and they gave us a great tour. That was wonderful. Next picture, please.好，他们在这儿。
英文原文
>> Okay, there they are.我们[笑声]在这儿。是的。和房主们在一起。
英文原文
>> There we [laughter] are. Yeah. With the owners在他们漂亮的客厅里。当年省长就住在那里。是的，那就是以前的会客区。
英文原文
>> in their beautiful living room. And that's where the premier lived back in the day. Yeah, that was the seating area.我能问一下吗，我是说当你敲门时，他们认出你是市长了吗？还是说他们根本不知道你是从哪儿来的……
英文原文
>> Can I can I ask I mean when you knock on the door, do they recognize you as the mayor or did they not know you from out of没有，他们认出我来了。是的，他们知道我是谁。对。
英文原文
>> No, they they knew who I was. Yeah, they knew who I was. Yeah.好的。好的。请看下一张照片。好了。所以，它现在是一处历史保护建筑了，对吧？
英文原文
>> Yeah. Okay. Next picture, please. All right. So, it's an historic home now, right?是的。苏圣玛丽的指定文化遗产建筑。
英文原文
>> Yes. Designated heritage property in Sus Marie.就在那儿。那块牌匾就挂在房子正面。非常不错。请看下一张照片。好的。那是新书发布会。大家可以看到，市长深谙推介书籍之道：宣传书的时候，一定要拿着书合影。书就在他手里。你身边的那个人是谁？那是密歇根州苏圣玛丽市的市长，巧合的是，我们唯一一次拥有省长——抱歉，现在不再是唯一一次了，但在很长一段时间里，唯一一位来自安大略省北部的省长就是来自苏圣玛丽的赫斯特省长。
英文原文
>> There we go. That plaque is on the front of the house. So, very nice. Next picture, please. All right. That's the book launch. And you can see the mayor has figured out that when you're promoting a book, you always are photographed with the book. And there it is in his hand. Who are you there with? That's the mayor of Sus Marie, Michigan, who uh coincidentally the only time we've had a premier or sorry, not the only time anymore, but for the longest time, the only premier from Northern Ontario was from Sus Marie, Premier Hurst.与此同时，密歇根州历史上唯一一位来自上半岛的州长，正是来自密歇根州的苏圣玛丽。而且他们的任期正好重合。
英文原文
>> At the same time, there was a governor, the only governor in Michigan's history from the upper peninsula was from Sue, Michigan. Uh, and their terms coincided.这不是很奇妙吗？
英文原文
>> Isn't that beautiful?好的。我们还有最后一张照片，那就是这位伟大人物长眠的地方。当然，舒梅克市长，你和我至少去过一次，也许是几次，我现在记不清了，去过芒特普莱森特公墓（Mount Pleasant Cemetery），距离这里大约有 20 分钟的步行路程。那就是他最终安息的地方。对你而言，那在某种程度上算是一片圣地，不是吗？
英文原文
>> Okay. And we have one last picture, and that's where the great man is buried. And of course, Mayor Shane Maker, you and I uh at least once, maybe a couple times, I can't remember now, have gone to Mount Pleasant Cemetery, which is a, you know, about a 20-minute walk from here. And that's his final resting place. And that's kind of hallowed ground for you in a way, isn't it?我们去祭拜过。我留下了一面市旗——虽然现在已经不在那儿了，但我当时就留在了墓碑旁边。是的，赫斯特最终安息的地方。
英文原文
>> We visited I left, it's not there anymore, but I left a city flag right next to the headstone. And uh yeah, first's final resting place.这本书背后的渊源
太好了。好了，我们来聊聊这本书。我们在这里讲一讲这本书背后的历史故事，因为这本书并不是你写的，但你为它写了序言；而且这本名为《无怨无悔：威廉·赫斯特爵士的沉浮》（No Regrets: The Rise and Fall of Sir William Hurst）的书之所以得以出版，是因为你的介入。请讲讲这是怎么来的？
英文原文
>> Beautiful. All right, let's talk about this book. This we'll do a little history of the story of the book here because you didn't write this book but you wrote the introduction for this book but this book has been published no regrets the rise and fall of Sir William Hurst this book has been published because of an intervention by you explain how this came about好的，嗯，我在高中和大学学习历史时——我的本科学位部分是历史学，同时我还修了政治学本科——但我对历史的兴趣一直都……我一直是个热衷钻研的书呆子。[笑声]
英文原文
>> so um as I was studying history high school and university my undergraduate is partially in uh history I've also got a polysai undergraduate but um my interest in history has always been a the I've always been a keen uh nerd looking. [laughter]没说错。对，就是这样。业余历史学家，我喜欢这么称呼。我对苏圣玛丽历史的兴趣让我偶然发现了“赫斯特”这个名字，但了解得非常模糊。关于他的记载并不多。但随着我不断深挖，我总能看到一个名字反复出现，那就是布赖恩·道格拉斯·坦尼森（Brian Douglas Tennyson）。他写过不少关于他们的文章。接着，我在查阅那些文章的脚注时，总看到提及一篇论文。所以当我在渥太华大学读本科时，我去了加拿大图书档案馆，在缩微平片上找到了那篇旧论文……
英文原文
>> Yes, that's right. That's right. That's right. Amateur historian, I like to say. Um and so my interest in sue history led me to come across the name Hurst, but in a very uh poorly defined way. There was not much written about him. But as I dug into it, I kept seeing one name come up and that was Brian Douglas Tennyson. He had written a number of articles on them. And then I kept seeing reference as I was looking through the footnotes of those articles to a thesis. So when I was a student at University of Ottawa, I went to Library and Archives Canada, found the old thesis on microfich他写那篇论文是在……
英文原文
>> which he wrote when1963 年。
英文原文
>> 1963.好的。所以距今已经……我是 2009 年到 2012 年在渥太华。于是我顺藤摸瓜找到了远在哈利法克斯的坦尼森教授，并联系了他。他给我寄来了一份 1963 年那篇论文的复写纸副本，随后我就开始重新打字，因为它当时没有电子版。一页接一页，一个脚注接一个脚注，我把整份文件重新敲了一遍，并询问他我们是否可以尝试出版它。在历经几次不成功的尝试之后，他与我共同决定，我们要对书中的研究进行重新梳理，或者说更新，加上序言，加上从 1963 年至今的历史背景，这就是今天呈现在我们面前的这本书。
英文原文
>> Okay. So it's been I was in Ottawa in 2009 to 12. So um tracked down Professor Tennyson at uh in Halifax and uh contacted him. He sent me a onion skin copy of the thesis from 1963, which I proceeded to then retype because it did not exist in soft copy. Page by page, footnote by footnote, I retyped the document and asked him if it could if we could attempt to publish it. uh after su successive efforts that were unsuccessful uh he decided along with me that we would research or or update I would say the research in the book add uh an introduction add some historical context from the time of 1963 to present and that is uh what you have before us today一个简单的追问：为什么要费这么大劲做这一切？[笑声]
英文原文
>> simple follow-up question why do all this [laughter]这个嘛，你知道的，我一直觉得颂扬自己社区中做出过非凡成就的人非常重要。赫斯特省长做成了我认为任何人都可能做到的最引人瞩目的事情之一，那就是他在安大略省历史上一些极其重要的历史事件中发挥了不可或缺的作用。我相信我们稍后会聊到这些，但在当地对他知之甚少，显然在全省范围内对他也知之甚少，而我下决心要纠正这一疏漏。而且我很庆幸能够联系上坦尼森教授——我找到他的时候他已经七十多岁快八十岁了，现在都八十多岁快九十了——但他依然愿意与我合作，确保这个故事能够被讲述出来。
英文原文
>> well I you know I've always said that it's important to celebrate people from your community who have done great things. Premier Hurst did one of the uh most interesting things I think that anyone can do and that is he had an integral role in some of the most important historical elements of Ontario history and I'm sure we'll get to those at some point but so little was known about him locally obviously more broadly proincially so little is known about him and I was committed to correcting that oversight and uh was glad that you know I could track down Professor Tennyson who was when I tracked him down in late 70s and is now in his late 80s uh but was willing to work with me on ensuring that this story got told.赫斯特的历史功绩
那么，我们来谈谈赫斯特的一些功绩。在担任省长之前，他是负责安大略省北部的部长，并与联邦政府展开谈判，划定了安大略省与曼尼托巴省的西北边界。我想曼尼托巴省至今仍有人对那条边界线的划定耿耿于怀呢。[笑声]不过那确实是一件了不起的大事。
英文原文
>> So, let's talk about some of Hurst's uh accomplishments. Before he was premier, he was the minister for Northern Ontario and negotiated with the federal government uh to create the the northwestern border with Manitoba. I think there's still some people in Manitoba who are salty about how that line was drawn up. [laughter] Um but that's kind of a big deal.凭借他当时与曼尼托巴省对应部长的谈判，安大略省的陆地面积增加了 56%。你知道，我们如今觉得桑德贝以北地区以及詹姆斯湾沿岸都是安大略省的一部分。但在当时并非如此。当时那里大体上被称为西北地区，或者基瓦廷区（Keewatin district），后来被并入了安大略省的版图。正如我所说，这让我们的面积增加了 56%。在赫斯特担任土地、森林和矿业部长期间，全省增加了一半以上的面积。
英文原文
>> Well, Ontario's land mass was increased by 56% because of the negotiation he had with uh his his counterveailing minister in Manitoba at the time. Um and you know, we think of the the area uh north of Thunder Bay uh and the James Bay coast as being part of Ontario nowadays. It wasn't the case. uh it was you know kind of the the it was broadly known as the Northwest Territories back then uh or the uh Kuwaiten district and that got added to Ontario's land mass. It increased our size by like I say 56%. More than half of our province got added when Hurst was the Minister of Lands, Forests and Mines.很有意思的是，当时的安大略省北部还不叫安大略省北部。它被称为新安大略。
英文原文
>> It's interesting Northern Ontario back then was not referred to as Northern Ontario. It was called New Ontario.新安大略，也就是苏圣玛丽、萨德伯里、北湾和桑德贝这些地区。再往外，就属于腹地了，当时他们当然称之为基瓦廷区，不过现在大家会叫它科克伦（Cochrane），以弗兰克·科克伦（Frank Cochrane）命名，他在书中是一个重要人物；然后还有詹姆斯湾……
英文原文
>> New Ontario the area that uh you know the area of the Sue and Sudbury and North Bay and Thunder Bay. Uh and then beyond that it was kind you know kind of hinterland the Kuwait district they called it of course at the time but um now you would call it Cochran and named after Frank Cochran who features prominently in the book and uh and and then the James Bake赫斯特接任与党内裂痕
host
我的意思是，即便没有别的理由，我认为研究赫斯特也很有意思，因为他是凭借极其独特的一套际遇成为安大略省省长的：我们一共有过26位省长，但唯独赫斯特一人是因为前任在任内去世而上台的。那是詹姆斯·惠特尼，时间在1914年，1914年9月。所以，好吧。
英文原文
hostHurst I I mean if for nothing else I think Hurst is interesting to study because he has an utterly unique set of circumstances upon which he becomes the premier of Ontario and that is we've had 26 premers but only one Hurst who came into office because his predecessor died in office. James Whitney in 1914, September of 1914. So, okay.
那可真是一个接掌政权的时机。
英文原文
>> That's a time to take government.可不是嘛，正是第一次世界大战爆发的时候，对吧？一点没错。嗯，那就讲讲——我的意思是，我们显然不像美国那样，总统去世时有副总统在宪法上顺位接任。我们完全没有那套机制。那么，他们当时是怎么确定应该由赫斯特出任省长的呢？放在如今，你要么在执政党全体党员中进行投票，要么举行党团投票。而他们当时的做法是：惠特尼自知健康恶化，于是留下一封信；当时党内存在派系，有支持亚当·贝克的派系，也有支持霍华德·弗格森的派系。惠特尼认为这两个派系谁都不会接受对方的人当省长，因此推荐了赫斯特来接任这份工作。所以他得到了惠特尼的支持，惠特尼在党内和党团中极其受人敬重，但人已经去世了，而且政治因素也在其中起了作用。他接手治理的是一个分裂的党团，离任后留下的也是一个分裂的党团。我认为，他的任期以及他的败选，很大程度上反映了他无法——你知道，当然还有许多其他环境因素，但很大程度上是因为他未能在党内展现出团结一致的局面。
英文原文
>> Well, yeah. Beginning of World War I, right? Exactly. Um, so just tell I mean, we obviously don't have like in the United States when the president dies, the vice president is constitutionally there to take over. We have none of that. So, how did they figure out that Hurst should become premier? Well, nowadays you would either have a vote of the membership of the, you know, governing party or you would have a caucus vote. And what they did at the time was Whitney knew he was in failing health. And so he left a letter and there were fra factions uh within the party. There was uh the faction behind Adam Beck, there was the faction behind Howard Ferguson. And Whitney thought that neither of those factions would uh accommodate the other being the premier and so recommended Hurst for the job. And so he had the backing of Whitney who was incredibly well respected in the party and by the caucus but dead but dead and uh politics played a role in it. He came uh to govern a divided caucus and left a divided caucus after him. uh and uh you know I think that his tenure and his loss is largely reflective of the fact that he wasn't able to um you know there are a number of other circumstances as well but largely uh because of the fact that he couldn't uh present a united front in his party.执政合法性与贝克的角力
你刚才谈到了他的离任，提到了他的败选，但在谈那个之前：他没有在党团或内阁投票中胜出这一事实，在他担任省长期间是否影响了他的合法性？
英文原文
>> I mean you talked about his his exit there you alluded to his loss there but before we get to that the fact that he didn't win a vote in caucus or cabinet uh did that affect his legitimacy while he was premier?这一直、我认为这一直都带来了有害的影响。亚当·贝克始终是他身边的肉中刺。贝克最终成了——不管现在叫什么，但在当时我想是OPG吧——安大略省水电之父……
英文原文
>> it it you know I think it always had uh a delletterious effect. Adam Beck was a constant thorn in his side. Uh who ultimately became the head of, you know, whatever it's now called, but OPG, I think, at the time. Ontario, father of Ontario Hydro,安大略水电公司。
英文原文
>> Ontario Hydro,大学大道上还有他的一座大雕像。
英文原文
>> big statue for him on University Avenue却没有赫斯特省长的雕像，不过话说回来……［笑声］嗯。
英文原文
>> and and yet none of Premier Hurst, but nevertheless, [laughter] um你感到愤愤不平吗？
英文原文
>> are you bitter?不，一点也不。赫斯特最终在着手处理这些非常棘手的问题时——我的意思是，我们稍后会谈到其中一些重大问题，包括妇女投票权，这是在赫斯特任内得到承认的；对征兵制的支持，这在赫斯特任内得到了大力倡导；安大略省电网电力的扩建，这也在赫斯特任内受到倡导，亚当·贝克当时也在推动，但两人采取的方式截然不同。实际上当时有人指控称，赫斯特最终承担责任的许多项目，亚当·贝克都曾试图削弱其成效或正当合规性。
英文原文
>> No, not at all. Uh so Hurst ultimately as he was you know undertaking these really difficult issues and and I mean we'll get to some of the important ones but cons uh the right to vote for women which was recognized under Hurst Hurst's tenure support for conscription which was you know strongly advocated for in Hurst's tenure the expansion of the power supply in Ontario which was advocated for in Hurst's tenure and Adam Beck was also um promoting but they were really coming at it in different ways and there were allegations really that Adam Beck tried to undermine uh the success or the uh above boardness of uh many of the projects that Hurst ultimately ended up wearing responsibility for.禁酒令、妇女普选与农民群体的反弹
好吧，让我在这份清单上再添一项。你指出他在安大略省赋予了妇女投票权，他还推行了禁酒令，这在某些圈子里反响并不太好，而且他仅执政一届就被赶下了台。不知你是否认为这三件事之间存在关联？
英文原文
>> Well, let me add one more thing to the list. You point out he gave women the right to vote in the province of Ontario. He also brought in prohibition which did not go over particularly well in some circles and was thrown out after only one term in office. And I wonder whether you think those three things are connected.我认为那本书最终得出的结论，以及我认为历史所认定的，是他当时预期赋予妇女投票权能在选民层面帮到他。而且［嗤笑］这并非出于选举考量而做——至少不完全是。我认为不是出于这个原因，因为赫斯特在刚上任时非常保守，他并不认为社会已经发展到了应该赋予妇女投票权的阶段。但贯穿妇女在工厂以及其他工业领域投入的战时努力，他逐渐得出了应该赋予妇女投票权的结论。我认为次要的想法是这能在政治上帮到他：这会扩大选民群体的基础，而那些被赋予投票权的人按理说会回报赋予他们这一权利的省长。但事实并非如此。他与省内农民的关系也极其艰难，最终败给了安大略联合农民组织，而且他当时亲自兼任农业部长，我认为书中会这样表述，历史也已证明这对他造成了重大伤害，因为他对这一业务板块缺乏掌握。
英文原文
>> So I think the book ultimately concludes and I think that history has found that there was an expectation on his part that extending the right to vote to women would help him electorally. And [snorts] it wasn't done for electoral reasons at least not entirely. I don't think it was done because Hurst was very conservative uh at the beginning of his time in office. He didn't think that uh society had gotten to the point where the right to vote should be extended to women. But throughout the war effort that women put in in factories and uh and and in other industries, he gradually came to the conclusion that the right to vote should be extended to women. I think a secondary thought was that this would help him politically. It would expand the base of uh the voting public and those who had been extended the right to vote presumably would reward the premier who extended that right to them. Um but it was not to be. He uh also uh had a very difficult relationship with farmers in the province. Ultimately was defeated by the United Farmers of Ontario and was his own minister of agriculture which I think the book would say and and history has shown hurt him substantially because he didn't have a grasp on the file.尽管他是在农场长大的，不是吗？
英文原文
>> Although he he grew up on a farm, didn't he?他是在农场长大，但他离开得很早。在离开家时他才15岁，而且再也没有回头。他成了一个城市人，成年后的大部分时间都生活在苏圣玛丽，但最终他还是输给了农民。我认为证据表明，农妇们的投票立场和农民丈夫是一致的，这最终导致了他的垮台。有意思的是——稍作岔开一下——节制、禁酒，不管你怎么称呼它，以及女性参政权，在政治的诸多领域都是并驾齐驱的，在美国当然也是如此，它们很大程度上被视为相互关联的议题。不过我扯远了。迄今为止关于赫斯特的书籍普遍认为他不值得专门写一本书，因为他是一个过渡性人物，对吧？介于非常成功但已故的詹姆斯·惠特尼与联合农民政府以及他们所代表的断裂之间。显然，我认为你并不觉得这是历史的公正定论。
英文原文
>> He grew up on a farm but he left quite young. You know, he was 15 by the time he left uh the home and and never looked back. he would became a metropolitan and uh you know lived um in the sue for for much of his adult life but then he he um ultimately lost to the farmers and I think evidence is that farmers wives voted the way the farmers did and ultimately led to his demise. M it's interesting just a brief digression that u temperance uh prohibition whatever you want to call it and uh female suffrage uh moved together in so many uh uh areas of politics certainly in the US uh they they were very much considered linked issues um but I I belver that point um the the book on Hurst up until now is that he he wasn't really worthy of a book uh because he was this this transitional figure right uh between the very success successful but late James Whitney. Um and then the United Farmers Government and and the the the breach that they represented. Um clearly I don't think you you see that as a fair verdict in history.战时执政遗产与败选落幕
绝非如此。我认为他是——我的意思是，他在1914年9月上任，正如你所说，那正是一战爆发之初。他治理该省度过了整个一战时期，带领该省渡过了当时面临的征兵挑战，并给予罗伯特·博登政府巨大的支持以度过那些艰难岁月。他倡导安大略省在战争努力中发挥自身作用。我的意思是，当时有安大略的镍用于制造子弹，有包括苏圣玛丽的阿尔戈马钢铁在内的其他安大略工业参与制造国防物资并为战事提供协助。他作为省长带头推动了其中的大部分工作，并且在他作出的其他决策中具有变革性意义。我认为禁酒令——虽然我们现在回过头来看可能会说它是一场失败——在当时具有变革意义，并且至今仍在深刻影响着该省销售酒类的方式。我是说，直到今天福特省长都还在改变赫斯特任内最终确立的那些规制，比如放宽酒类销售。而这一切都……
英文原文
>> Absolutely not. I think that he came I mean he came to office in September 1914 which as you said is the very beginning of World War I. He governed the province through the entirety of World War I. uh guided it through um the conscription uh challenge that was facing the the province at the time uh and lended great support to Robert Bordon's government to uh get through those difficult times. He advocated for Ontario to do its part in the war effort. I mean there was uh uh the use of Ontario nickel in uh bullets. was the use of other Ontario industries including Algo Steel and Sus Staint Marie to make um defense items and and and to to assist in the war effort and he spearheaded much of that from the premier's chair and was transformational in the other decisions that he made. I think prohibition you know as as we would probably look upon it and and uh say it was a failure was transformational and still is transformational to the way that the province sells liquor. I mean, you've got Premier Ford to this day changing aspects of what was ultimately put in place during Hurst's time in office with, you know, liberalization of liquor sales. Um and that's all uh但依然捍卫着政府对酒类批发垄断的核心地位。
英文原文
>> but still defending the centrality of the government liquor wholesale monopoly这正是源于赫斯特所推行的禁酒时代。再加上向妇女赋予投票权，以及将安大略省的陆地面积扩大了50%以上，我认为所有这些都是说明他是安大略省历史上的一位变革性人物、其故事值得被讲述的理由。
英文原文
>> which it which arose out of the prohibition era which uh Hurst enacted and then obviously the extension of the right to vote to women the expansion of Ontario's land mass by 50 plus% uh I think is all reasons that this was a transformational figure in Ontario's history and the story deserved to be told.好吧，让我在这儿扫一下兴。尽管有所有那些作为，这家伙却在1919年的选举中输给了一群农民——他们当时甚至算不上一个正式组建的政党，甚至连党魁都没有，而他却输给了他们。回答前你先喝口水吧。确实如此。［笑声］这怎么会发生呢？
英文原文
>> Okay, let me play Killjoy for a second here. And yet, in spite of all that, the guy loses an election in 1919 to a group of farmers who were barely a constituted political party and didn't even have a leader and he lost to them. Take a sip before you answer. Yes, indeed. [laughter] How did that happen?那么，我要指出另一位在带领国家度过战争后输掉选举的历史人物，那就是温斯顿·丘吉尔爵士。因此我想说，与他同列足可说明，第一次世界大战激起的社会变革意味着在一战结束之后他就被甩在了后视镜里。我是说，他引入了母亲津贴；他推行了——我不想说是退伍军人法案，因为那是美国的说法——但确实是一项对归国军队进行再培训并安置回劳动力市场的重大举措。因此，他在引导和引领社会步入战后时代方面发挥了巨大作用，但他并不是战后时代的领导人，这正是安大略省最终作出的决定。而且我认为
英文原文
>> Well, I'm going to point to another historic figure who lost the election after guiding their country through a war, and that was Sir Winston Churchill. And so he's in good company, I would say, to say that the um societal change that was stirred up by the First World War meant that he was left in the rearview mirror after the war was over. I mean, he brought in a mother's allowance. He brought in uh a um I don't want to say a GI bill because that's an American term, but very much an effort to retrain and uh place uh troops who were back home back into the workforce. And so he had a great effect on being able to guide and usher society into the post-war era, but he was not the leader for the post-war era as Ontario ultimately decided. And I think这并不能改变一个事实，那就是他的……呃……他的任期具有开创性，并且至今仍在对安大略省产生影响。
英文原文
that doesn't change the fact that his uh his term in office was transformational and continues to have an effect on Ontario to this day.在多伦多这里，八月的公民假日被称为西姆科日（Simco Day）。是的。这是为了纪念约翰·格雷夫斯·西姆科（John Graves Simco）。在伯灵顿（Burlington），它被称为约瑟夫·布兰特日（Joseph Brandt Day），因为他在安大略省的那片地区举足轻重。你家乡那边叫它什么？
英文原文
>> Here in Toronto, the civic holiday in August is called Simco Day. Yes. after John Graves Simco in Burlington. It's called Joseph Brandt Day because he was significant in that part of Ontario. What's it called where you're from?威廉·赫斯特爵士日（Sir William Hurst day）。那是我刚当选市议员时牵头推动的一项工作。我是2014年当选为市议员的，2015年提出了一项动议，为赫斯特寻找恰当的表彰方式；在那之前的一年里，我刚设法让他入选了苏圣玛丽名人堂（Sue Staint Marie Walk of Fame）。因此，最终由学生、市议员和其他社区倡导者组成了一个委员会，我们决定将这个公民假日更名为纪念赫斯特的节日。
英文原文
Will Sir William Hurst day and that's uh an effort that I spearheaded when I was first elected to council. I was elected in 2014 as a city councelor and in 2015 brought forward a motion to find an appropriate recognition for Hurst who I had just uh earlier uh in the year before that uh gotten put into the Sue Staint Marie Walk of Fame. And so ultimately a committee of students and counselors and other community advocates were was put together and we decided that the civic holiday should be renamed in Hurst's honor.好。关于赫斯特的这本书就聊到这里。既然您在这里，我们想趁此机会……呃，我们想谈谈其他一些……
英文原文
>> Okay. So that's that's the book on Hurst. While we have you here, we want to take advantage of the fact that u we want to talk about some other还是安大略省政治播客。
英文原文
>> still on Ontario politics podcast.是的，没错。
英文原文
>> Yes, you are.当代政治。[笑声]
英文原文
>> Contemporary politics. [laughter]当代政治议题
好，让我们来聊一点当代政治。无可否认，这个问题会有点棘手，但你知道，你们市有一位安大略省议员，他最初是以进步保守党成员的身份当选的，但现在作为独立议员在议会就座，因为省长把他开除出了党团，原因是一些……嗯，我们该怎么说？嗯，他被指控犯有与其家庭状况相关的罪行。这一事态发展是否影响了苏市在女王公园（Queens Park）引起关注的能力？
英文原文
>> Yeah, let's do a little contemporary politics here. And admittedly, this question is going to be a little bit sticky, but you know, your city has a member of the Ontario legislature who was elected as a progressive conservative member, but now sits as an independent because the premier kicked him out of caucus because of some um what do we say? Well, he's been charged with an offense related to his domestic situation. Has that development had an impact on the Sue's ability to get attention at Queens Park?我想说是的。毫无疑问是有影响的。嗯，我一直很感激省长办公室及其工作人员、他的内阁部长们以及他本人，我想说，他们相当定期地主动联络，但你知道，我从未担任过安大略省议会议员。我从未参加过党团会议。我不知道他们是如何运作的，但我不得不认为，呃……你知道，在那些会议和议会中有一位来自苏市的议员，呃，在讨论到苏市的议题时，只会对我们的事业有所助益。我的意思是，事后确实有大量的沟通，也有大量的沟通来确保苏市的议题不被遗忘，但是，呃，我认为这毫无疑问对我们造成了伤害。
英文原文
>> I would say yes. It it undoubtedly has. Um I have been grateful to the premier's office and his staff, his cabinet ministers, and himself who have, I would say, reached out fairly regularly, but you know, I've never been a member of the Ontario legislature. I've never sat in a caucus meeting. I don't know how they operate, but I have to imagine that uh an an, you know, having a member from the Sue in those meetings and in the legislature would uh only help our cause when Sue issues come up. I mean there there is a lot of outreach after the fact and there's a lot of outreach to ensure that sue issues aren't forgotten about but uh I think that it it has undoubtedly hurt us.你刚才提到自己从未担任过省议员（MPP），但这并不是因为没有人争取过你。早在2017年，凯瑟琳·韦恩（Kathleen win）领导下的自由党就曾邀请你参选。你拒绝了，而你此后的发展依然很不错。[笑声] 嗯，但是下一届省选可能是在——我想应该是在你担任市长的第七年左右，并且正好是在一次市政选举之前。你可能会面临一些抉择。呃，有兴趣追随赫斯特的脚步涉足省级政治吗？[笑声]
英文原文
Now you mentioned that you've never sat as an MPP but that's not because you weren't pursued. Back in 2017 the uh Liberal Party under Kathleen win uh invited you to run. You uh declined and you've done well for yourself nevertheless. [laughter] Um, but uh the next provincial election is likely to be in I guess what would be year seven of your uh time as mayor and right before a municipal election. You might have some decisions to make. Uh any interest in following Hurst into provincial politics? [laughter]嗯，我认为苏市人有很多机会在政界大有所为。我正在努力在市政层面上做出出色的成绩。今年秋天我们就会知道，我的社区是否认为这些成绩足以让我连任，在未来必须做出决定之前，我将专注于我未来的市长任期。
英文原文
>> Well, I think that there is lots of opportunity for uh Sueites to do great things in politics. I'm trying to do great things at the municipal level. We'll find out in the fall if uh my community thinks that those things are sufficient enough to reelect me and I'll focus on my mayoralty for uh the term ahead of me until uh future decisions have to be made.这就叫作非否认式的否认。[笑声]
英文原文
>> That's called a non-denial denial. [laughter]这可不是谢尔曼式的声明，对吧？就是那种“如果被提名，我不会参选”。
英文原文
>> It's not the Sherman statement, right? The uh if nominated I will not run.“如果当选，我不会就职。”不，倒不完全是那样。呃，市长阁下（your worship），我们非常感谢您千里迢迢从苏市赶来。虽然航程也就一个多小时，对吧？其实没那么远。一小时零一分钟。
英文原文
>> If elected, I will not serve. No, it's not quite like that. Uh your worship, we are really grateful to you for making the long trek down from S. Although it's only an hour and change flight, right? It's not that far. One hour, one minute.这不就是了。这不就是了。我确实说的是一个小时零几分钟。是的，[笑声] 那个零头就是一分钟。无论如何，祝贺你。
英文原文
>> There you go. There we go. I did say an hour and change. Yeah, [laughter] the change is a minute. Anyway, congratulations.那些时间更长……呃，那确实是真的，[笑声] 可不是吗？是的。嗯，我们这些同样是历史迷的人都很感激你拥有把这件事做成的坚韧劲头。我已经读过了，这是一本非常棒的书，对于那些希望更好地理解我们今天是谁、以及我们为何会成为现在这样的人来说，你做出了实实在在的贡献。所以，做得好。我很乐意在镜头前展示一下。展示出来了。《毫无遗憾：威廉·赫斯特爵士的崛起与没落》（No regrets. The rise and fall of Sir William Hurst）。马修·休梅克（Matthew Shoemaker），非常感谢。很高兴你能来这里。感谢邀请我。
英文原文
>> That are longer than uh that's true [laughter] actually, isn't it? Yeah. Um those of us who are also history nerds are grateful to you for having the stick tuitiveness to get this thing done. And I've read it and it's a terrific book and you've made a real contribution to those who want to have a better understanding of who we are today and why we are the way we are. So, well done. I'm happy to show the camera. There we go. No regrets. The rise and fall of Sir William Hurst. Matthew Shoemaker. Thanks so much. Great to have you here. Thanks for having me.专栏回顾与时事分析
好的，现在到了我们的常规栏目“你的专栏，我的专栏”，在这一环节中，JMM和我一起回顾过去一周我们在tvO.org上撰写的内容。你为我们带来了什么？呃，我打算回过头来谈谈福特省长访问华盛顿特区的事情，以及对于“北美堡垒”（Fortress North America）的推销，这一推销似乎反响平平。嗯，我提到了白宫向商会施压取消省长活动一事。这在我看来表明，你知道，尽管我们很想假装双方是在出于共同利益进行善意谈判，呃，但现实并非如此。呃，现任美国政府已经决定，它根本不想参与这些谈判。它不想达成一项公平的协议，我们应该对此坦诚相待，并且继续向前看。我认为，嗯，你知道，是不是富兰克林·罗斯福的名言说过，你知道，“巨富的势力憎恨我，而我欢迎他们的憎恨”。我认为，你知道，道格·福特眼下要么可以接受现任政府憎恨我们这一事实并欢迎他们的憎恨，要么他可以尝试——在缺乏更好词汇的情况下——基本上走绥靖路线。呃，但这套“北美堡垒”的说辞就是不起作用，呃，所以这就是我本周写的内容。
英文原文
Okay, it's time now for our regular feature, your column, my column, in which JMM and I reminisce about the stuff we wrote for tvO.org over the past week. What you got for us? Uh I am going to return to this issue of uh uh Premier Ford's visit to uh DC and uh the the sales pitch uh for Fortress North America that uh seems to have landed a bit flat. Um I mentioned the White House pressuring the Chamber of Commerce to drop the premier's event. That to me says that, you know, as much as we would like to pretend that uh we're having uh good faith negotiations between uh parties of of uh you know, mutual interest, uh that's not what we're looking at. Uh the the current American administration has decided it uh uh just does not want any part of these negotiations. It does not want to to find a a fair agreement and we should be honest about that and and move forward. I think um you know was it Franklin Roosevelt's quote about you know the the the the forces of great wealth uh hate me and I welcome their hatred. I think you know Doug Ford can either accept for now that this current administration hates us and he can welcome their hatred or he can try and basically uh go the appeasement route for lack of a better word. Uh but this uh Fortress North America pitch just is not working and uh so that's that's what I wrote about this week.目前看来确实不行。如你所知，我一直在关注今年晚些时候11月即将举行的安大略省自由党党魁角逐中所有宣布参选的人。而我在过去一周撰写专栏介绍的那个人，实际上是第一个获得安大略省自由党执行委员会批准的人。他的名字叫迪伦·米兰多（Dylan Mirando）。我敢打赌，现在观看或收听这个节目的观众中，有95%的人会说：“迪伦·米兰多，迪伦·米兰多是谁？”你这样问很正常，因为他以前从未竞选过公职。他不是……呃，好吧，我应该说在省级层面，无论如何他从未作为安大略省自由党人竞选过省议会议席。不过，他是一个在幕后拥有丰富经验的人。他曾担任道尔顿·麦坚迪（Daltton McGinty）、凯瑟琳·韦恩和贾斯廷·特鲁多（Justin Trudeau）的高级政策顾问。而且他很年轻。他实际上让我想起了很多麦坚迪的样子。他算是那种年轻而认真的小伙子，你知道，非常注重政策。呃，身上带着一种好人的人设。而且，嗯，你知道，到目前为止他已经筹集了10万美元，这不是个小数目。如果你打算以此传达出自己是该职位的严肃候选人，这表现相当不错了。嗯，关于他有一件有趣的事——这也是我问他的第一个问题：“你叫迪伦·米兰多。你不是以那位歌手的名字命名的吧？”他说：“是的，我父亲是个60年代的嬉皮士，非常喜欢鲍勃·迪伦（Bob Dylan），所以我……”是的，他确实是以鲍勃·迪伦的名字命名的。并且曾考虑将“时代正在改变”（the times they are a changing）作为竞选口号[笑声]，但考虑到这可能会给他带来一些版权纠纷。所以无论如何，呃，迪伦·米兰多，嗯，有趣的是我问他：“你看上去很年轻，多大了？”他说：“我跟戴维·彼得森（David Peterson）赢得自由党党魁时的年纪一样大。”
英文原文
doesn't appear to be so far. I, as you know, have had my eye on all of the people who are throwing their hat into the Ontario Liberal Leadership Contest coming up later this year in November. And the guy I did a column on this past week is actually the guy who was the first one to get green lit by the Ontario Liberal Executive. And his name is Dylan Mirando. And I'm willing to bet that 95% of the people watching this right now or listening to it say, "Dylan Miranda, who's Dylan Miranda?" And you'd be quite right to ask that because he's never stood for office before. He is not uh well I should say proincially at at any rate he hasn't run for a provincial seat for the Ontario Liberals. He's a guy though who has a great deal of experience in the back rooms. He's been a senior policy adviser to Daltton McGinty and Kathleen Wyn and Justin Trudeau. And he's a young guy. He actually reminds me a lot of Dalt McGinty. He's kind of a young earnest guy who you know very policy focused. uh has a kind of a nice guy, you know, vibe about him. And um you know, he's raised $100,000 so far, which is not chump change. That's pretty good if you're intending to convey that you're a serious candidate for the job. Um you know, the funny thing about him is, and this is the first question I asked him, "Your name's Dylan Miranda. You're not named after the singer, are you?" And he says, "Yeah, my dad was a 60s hippie who loved Bob Dylan, and I'm Yeah, he is named after Bob Dylan. and thought about having as a campaign slogan the times they are a changing [laughter] but thought that might get him into some copyright trouble. So anyway uh Dylan Mirando um it's funny I asked him you know you look very young how old are you and he said I'm the same age David Peterson was when he won the liberal leadership也就是38岁，瞧瞧，你知道，三十多岁的人成为党领袖并不是没有先例的，所以就是这样，呃，迪伦·米兰多。呃，在tvO.org网站上，如果你想了解更多关于他的信息的话。
英文原文
>> so 38 and that's look at you know it's it's not unprecedented for somebody in their 30s to become the leader of the party so there you go uh Dylan Morando uh on the website tvO.org org if you want to find out more about him.好的，我们要进入观众来信环节了吗？
英文原文
>> All right, shall we go to the mailbag?就这么办。如果您有迫切想问的问题或深刻的见解，我们非常乐意在onpolitics at tvo.org收到您的来信。好的，JMM，开始吧。
英文原文
>> Let's do that. If you've got a burning question or an insightful comment, we always love hearing from you at on politics at tvo.org. Okay, JMM, fire away.呃，好的。这封信来自滑铁卢的鲍勃·内斯特（Bob Nest），篇幅稍微有点长。呃，所以我们稍微做了些删减，不过，呃，他写的是关于……呃，你最近写的那篇关于霍华德·莫斯科（Howard Moscow）的文章。呃，他写道：呃，史蒂夫，我很喜欢你关于霍华德·莫斯科的专栏文章。我对特立独行的霍华德的记忆早于他步入市政政界的时候。回到20世纪70年代，我是来自滑铁卢选区的代表，参加了……
英文原文
>> Uh, right. So, this uh was a bit of a longer uh letter from Bob Nest of Waterlue. Uh, so we are trimming it down a little bit, but uh he wrote about uh your recent piece about Howard Moscow. Uh he writes uh Steve, I enjoyed your column on Howard Moscow. My memories of Howard the Maverick predate his entry into municipal politics. Back in the 1970s, I was a delegate from Waterl District to the追忆霍华德·莫斯科与反歧视斗争
……安大略省公立学校男教师联合会（当时男小学教师工会的名字）的年会上。霍华德是来自北约克的代表，并且成为了非正式的反对派领袖，对当权的工会执行委员会的举动提出质疑。他和北约克代表团年复一年地提出决议案，要求在校董事会的招聘实践中禁止基于性取向的歧视。当然，在那时，出柜要承担巨大的法律惩罚。鲍勃的信继续写道，在许多方面，霍华德都是教师职业中的特立独行者，留下了持久的影响。今天，同性恋教师的工作得到了保护，而在70年代，一名公开的同性恋教师仅仅因为是同性恋，就可能且确实会被解雇。
英文原文
annual meetings of the Ontario Public School Men's Teachers Federation as the Union of Male Elementary Teachers was called. Howard was a delegate from North York and became the unofficial leader of the opposition questioning the actions of the Establishment Union Executive. He and the North York delegation sponsored resolutions year after year to have discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation be banned in the hiring practices of school boards. This of course uh was a time when uh being out carried enormous legal penalties. Um uh Bob letter continues in many ways Howard was a maverick in the teaching profession who had a lasting impact. Today gay teachers have their jobs protected whereas back in the 70s an openly gay teacher could be and was fired just for being gay.鲍勃，我真的很高兴你写了这封信，因为这确实提醒了我们：霍华德·莫斯科之所以受到很多关注，是因为——我该怎么说呢？你知道，他确实时不时会做出一些滑稽搞怪的举动，而且他确实说过一些奇怪的话，以此来为他所信仰的事业争取一些关注。因此，人们完全有理由说：“是的，你是个特立独行的人，但你知道，你的行为并不总是行得通的。”但这提醒了我们，他的特立独行是根植于实实在在的事物，根植于那些他认为引起公众注意非常重要、且当时他认为其他人没有在捍卫的议题上。所以这非常有力地提醒了大家，归根结底，霍华德·莫斯科对一些重要问题是真正无比在意的。
英文原文
Bob, I'm really glad you wrote that letter because it does remind us that, you know, Howard Moscow got a lot of attention uh because of how do I want to put this? You know, he he did indulge in antics from time to time and he did say some, you know, strange things in order to get some attention for the causes he believed in. And it it would therefore be reasonable for people to say, "Yes, you're a maverick, but you know, your behavior doesn't cut it all the time." But this is a reminder that his maverickness uh was based in real stuff and in in issues that he thought were really important to bring to the public's attention that he didn't think others at that time were championing. And so this is a great reminder that uh at the base of it all, Howard Moscow really gave a damn about some important issues.确实如此。我也很喜欢这个提醒，那就是直到令人吃惊的近些年——我的意思是，我确实出生在70年代之后一点，但仍然在我有生之年——在加拿大曾经存在针对男女同性恋者的法律上的、正式形式的歧视，而我们基本上已经抛弃了这些歧视。而且你知道，正如我有时在这个播客上提到的那样，人很容易变得过于愤世嫉俗。但你知道，进步也是确实存在的。朋友，给一下电子邮箱地址，然后我们就收工吧。
英文原文
>> He did. And I also I like the reminder that uh until shockingly recently uh I mean certainly within I I I was born a bit after the 70s but you know still within my lifetime uh there were uh like legal formal forms of discrimination against gays and lesbians in Canada uh that we have for the most part jettisoned and uh you know it's easy to become too cynical as I've alluded to sometimes on this podcast. Uh but you know there there is such a thing as progress too. my friend. Give the email address and let's get out of here.节目尾声与制作团队致谢
好的。再次提醒，如果您想咨询有关节目内容的问题，请给我们发送电子邮件至 onppolitics@tvo.org。
英文原文
>> Right. Uh once again, if you'd like to ask about content on the show, please email us at onppolitics@tvo.org.这就是2026年6月12日星期五的 OnP 播客。
英文原文
>> And that is the OnP podcast for this Friday, June the 12th, 2026.您可以在任何获取播客的平台上关注我们的节目，这样每当有新一期节目上线时您就会收到通知。您也可以在 TV YouTube 频道上收看该播客的加长视频版本。
英文原文
>> You can follow our show wherever you get your podcasts so that you get notified each time a new episode is available. And you can see the extended video version of the podcast on the TV YouTube channel.您有任何反馈，不管是好的、坏的还是中立的，我们都非常乐意收到。如果您希望播客在电视上播出满一小时，您也可以告诉我们。请发送电子邮件至 onpolitics@tvo.org。请务必附上您的名、姓以及您来自哪里。
英文原文
>> Any feedback you have, we're always happy to get it, good, bad, or indifferent. If you like the podcast on TV for an hour, you can let us know that, too. Write us an email at onpolitics@tvo.org. Please be sure to include your first and last name and where you're from.本周节目的制作人是蒂夫·兰姆（Tiff Lamb），剪辑是科林·基什（Colin Kish）。
英文原文
>> This week's episode was produced by Tiff Lamb, editing by Colin Kish.制作支持来自乔纳森·霍洛韦尔（Jonathan Hollowell）及 TVO 的数字媒体服务团队。
英文原文
>> Production support from Jonathan Hollowell and TVO's digital media services team.洛丽·F（Lori F）是数字内容执行制片人。凡妮莎·卡塞斯（Vanessa Casease）是媒体副总裁。
英文原文
>> Lori F is the executive producer of digital. Vanessa Casease is vice president media.我们一向想感谢演播室这里的全体工作人员，当然还有控制室的同事们，感谢他们让播客的画面如此出色、音效如此动听。各位，我们非常享受与大家一起制作又一季精彩的 OnP 播客。各位，要是省长会怎么说呢，JMM？你们真是一群冠军。一点也没错。这是我们本季的最后一期节目了。各位，我们秋天再见。JMM，路上来点甜头吧。好嘞，老兄。祝大家暑期愉快。我们秋天见。拜拜。