Kyra Blackwell: There's no substitute for being there in person, but obviously you can't run over every single time a pill needs to be taken or somebody doesn't know how to change the channel on the TV. So being able to have these substitutes can help. And also maybe you go in and you're spending more quality time versus counting pills and making sure medication is taken.

Christine Sir Cleette: I'm Kyra Blackwell. I'm Christine Sir Cleette and you're listening to the Wire Cutter Show.

Kyra Blackwell: Hiro Christine, we're back and we are here to talk about one of potentially the most kind of emotionally complicated topics we've ever covered on the show.

Christine Sir Cleette: That is definitely one way to put it. It's something that I tend to try to keep far out of my mind.

Kyra Blackwell: Today we are talking about tools for caregivers, specifically tools and gadgets that can help caregivers stay organized. We recently published an article about this as part of a series of articles about aging in place. And we covered this last week on the show, too. Anyone who has been a caregiver really knows how challenging this role can be. Whether you're a parent who's taking care of young children or you're taking care of an aging parent, an ill spouse, or someone else in your life, you know, there's a huge to-do list every day, and it can be a very rewarding and exhausting job. I've watched the people around me who have been in this role, and it it can be really challenging, especially if you're juggling work, family, and other responsibilities.

Christine Sir Cleette: That's right. So, last week we aired an interview with our colleague Doug Mahoney about the small and big remodels you can make to your home to make it a better place to age in place. It's packed with a ton of great advice for specific products that can really make your home more comfortable and safe for someone who's getting older. And in this episode, we're going to talk with our colleague Rachel Sarakola, who is a writer on our tech team. She wrote this great piece with a lot of recommendations for tools and gadgets and strategies that can be helpful to keep caregivers organized. And although we'll be focused in this conversation on caregiving for older people, we really feel like many of the tools we discussed would be really helpful for people with kids, roommates, or anyone sharing a household. We'll talk with Rachel right after the break.

Kyra Blackwell: Welcome back. With us now is Rachel Sarakola. Rachel is a senior writer on our tech team focused on smartome. She's written about smart home devices for over 25 years. And in addition to this piece on tools for caregivers, she's also written a very helpful article about tech devices for people aging in place. And fun fact, in college, she was on a reality trivia show on MTV called Remote Control and she made it to the last round. So if we ever do a trivia bar night as a team, Rachel, you're coming with us.

Christine Sir Cleette: Absolutely. Rachel, welcome to the show and yeah, you're on my team.

Rachel Sarakola: Thank you. I'm very excited to be here and would be honored to be on your trivia team.

Kyra Blackwell: Rachel, we're going to get into a lot of this great advice that you have in this piece about tools for caregivers, but I am curious. Do you have experience as a caregiver? What is your background in this?

Rachel Sarakola: Well, I got interested in doing the article because I was having my own kind of personal experience. At the time, I wasn't the caregiver, but I had an outofstate family member who was requiring 247 care last year. She had a professional caregiver and also all of my siblings, they were all dealing with it as well. I would call them all caregivers and they were keeping me very informed about what's going on. In this piece, we talk about how you can get in touch with other caregivers, whether they're family members or professional caregivers. And that's what I was experiencing. My family had a group text chain, team text chain, and they kept me very informed on everything that was going on. This piece that you wrote about is all about just staying organized. And that sounds like it's really basic, but why is it so important for caregivers to stay organized?

Rachel Sarakola: Oh my gosh. Just just think about the stuff that you have to do this week, this month. Now, add another person into the mix. And maybe you have kids, so just trying to organize all of that is difficult. But when it comes to caring for someone, it really can be like lifethreatening, for lack of a better word. Maybe you have to keep someone's medications organized. You have to keep their appointments organized. You have to make sure that they're eating, standing up, that they're drinking water, that they're getting uh communication with other people. So, it it's very important to organize all of those things. And I think it can it can really weigh on you if you're not organized.

Kyra Blackwell: I know you talked to a lot of people for this story. I'd love to hear about the types of people you spoke with. Were they professional caregivers? Are they people taking care of maybe a spouse, a parent, someone else in their life?

Rachel Sarakola: I actually spoke to both professional caregivers and people that were caring for their parents. For this specific piece, we're really focusing on older people, but I wish I could include all of the stories because so many of them are so important and so interesting. I've talked to people that were caring for spouses and then I've talked to other people that were caring for children and I'm hoping to incorporate their stories in other pieces down the line. For this specific piece, I was more focused on I'm going to call them regular people that were caring for their parents.

Kyra Blackwell: And in your piece, you cover some really broad categories where it's specifically helpful for these normal people or caregivers to stay organized. And that's in scheduling, communicating with others, managing medications, and managing paperwork and budgeting. So, we want to walk through each one of these. Let's start with scheduling. What are the biggest challenges here?

Rachel Sarakola: I would say just keeping track of all of the appointments, things like eating and drinking. You don't think that those things need to be scheduled, but if people have dementia or any kind of memory loss, it's a big problem. So, you may have to schedule those type of things, believe it or not. But also, if you're dealing with other people like siblings or uh professional caregivers, you want everybody to be on the same page. Mhm.

Christine Sir Cleette: I think we talked a lot about that, Rachel, when we first assigned this piece that uh managing remote caregiving or managing a caregiving situation like with siblings or maybe you've got a team of people, maybe there's a home health aid, maybe there's a couple other people helping and that's when things can get really tricky and very confusing when it comes to scheduling.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes.

Kyra Blackwell: So, what are the tools that your experts recommended for helping with scheduling?

Rachel Sarakola: Well, one popular item was the Skylight calendar. I had heard of it before, this piece. It's really popular with with families. It's hard to ignore this calendar that's sitting on your either your counter or it's mounted to the wall and it's colorcoded and you can easily add things to it through an app. It just focuses on the calendar.

Christine Sir Cleette: I am kind of into this. I I didn't know about this thing before I looked at it when you wrote this piece. And it's basically this big digital screen that goes on the wall or on your counter and it's just it looks like you're looking at a Google calendar essentially, but you can kind of move events and is it a touch screen?

Rachel Sarakola: I believe it is a touch screen.

Christine Sir Cleette: To me, I was like, I would use this with my kids like this is the day you do these chores. This is the day so and so is going to gymnastics. This is the day that grandparents are coming into town. So, I could see where it has pretty wide applications.

Kyra Blackwell: But the the idea is that it's you can operate it or add things to it remotely. Right.

Rachel Sarakola: Right. And that way multiple people can add things to it if necessary. They can all have the app, but also you can add things like brush your teeth, you know, something simple like that.

Kyra Blackwell: And how much is that?

Rachel Sarakola: It's about $300ish dollars. A little over 300. It depends on the size that you get. There's more than one size.

Kyra Blackwell: So, it's a bit of an investment. That's like not just buying a wall calendar, but if you're going to use it a lot and it saves a lot of grief, that could be worth it.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes. Another great thing about it is that you can sync it with other calendars like your Google calendar or your iPhone calendar and it will just show up right on the screen.

Christine Sir Cleette: That is nice.

Kyra Blackwell: That's even better. What else did your expert recommend?

Rachel Sarakola: Another one that came up is this item I had never heard of called the Relish Day Hub. There's actually two products. There's a thing called the Relish Day Connect, which is a simple clock. And you think, oh, what's the big deal about a clock? Well, this clock shows the day, the time, the day of the week. And for people that have memory issues, that's a big deal. So, it's very helpful. When you add the hub into the mix, you can add tasks on it. So, very similar to the skylight, except maybe a little bit more simplistic. You actually write the tasks on the screen. So maybe it says brush your teeth. It says like get dressed. It says go for a walk. And as these tasks come up, you will get an alert on the device. And then you can also check them off as they're completed. And then at the end of the day, it'll just kind of erase itself, not the tasks, just that you had checked them off, so you can start over again the next day.

Kyra Blackwell: So this could help someone who potentially doesn't have someone at home all the time helping them, right? like maybe this might be something if you know your parent or someone else has memory issues that this can help them stay on task and do the things they need to do not being supervised 100% of the time.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes. And I would say it's really for tasks that you're completing every single day. So it's not like the random doctor's appointment or the random lunch that you're having with somebody. It's things that you need to do every day,

Kyra Blackwell: right? Take your medicine, take a shower, eat lunch, all that water.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes.

Kyra Blackwell: How much does this one cost?

Rachel Sarakola: That's about $200.

Kyra Blackwell: Still not cheap.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes. Nothing in this category is cheap.

Kyra Blackwell: Let's move from scheduling on to another tricky one, communication. This can be really difficult if you're coordinating a lot of people. Were there any common themes that came up in your reporting about, you know, the communication challenges that people have related to caregiving?

Rachel Sarakola: Figuring out a way to communicate that's easy for everyone involved. So, you know, I spoke to somebody that said they used iPhone notes that they shared with their sibling and that was just a shared document basically on their phones or Google calendar or maybe it's a text chain. But yeah, so just a way that you're comfortable with. I would say figure out what's best for you. Also, just keeping clear records so that everybody knows what's going on. Like when you're communicating, it's a good idea to just make sure everything is correct.

Christine Sir Cleette: Get it in text.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes.

Christine Sir Cleette: Always get it in text.

Rachel Sarakola: In writing. Yes.

Christine Sir Cleette: Um, were there other tools or services that came up in your reporting that people found really helpful?

Rachel Sarakola: Yes. I spoke to one gentleman who used Google Docs, which is also free, but he created an entire manual of his father. So, any time he had a new caregiver, there was a manual on basically how to take care of him. He mentioned that he was tired of telling new caregivers like how to work the washing machine, he made a video that was in this document. It's amazing the things that you can come up with with just even free tools. So, that was one. And then there were a few other devices. one being the Amazon Echo, which has Alexa built in. It's great for helping with schedules, helping with reminders, but also with communication. So, if you have a smart speaker in your home and your loved one has a smart speaker in their home, you can talk to them through the device.

Rachel Sarakola: If you have a screen, you can talk face to face. And maybe even if you don't have a screen, if you have the app, you can talk to them through that. So, that's great, a great communication tool. And it can also play things like music or podcasts or the weather or can answer all of your random trivia questions that you have. We don't need that. We have you, Rachel. Um, there's also a really interesting service called Alexa Emergency Assist. And that's if somebody falls, they can call out to their Alexa speaker and it'll put them in touch with police or fire. So similar to maybe not the same but kind of similar to the idea of wearing a medical alert device where there's some kind of help on the other end.

Christine Sir Cleette: Yes. Yes. Except a lot of people don't love wearing those. So

Rachel Sarakola: this you just call out. There was another device that came up called the Jubilee TV and I found this to be really interesting application to use with people aging in place because it's actually a universal remote and you hook this thing up to a TV and it can be controlled remotely. So, say I have it at my parents house set up. I can control their TV. I can also troubleshoot their TV, which I think a lot of people have had that issue where uh they've had to do some remote troubleshooting. It's not pleasant. Also, it has a system in place where you can send messages or even do video chat and the messages might be take your medication or you know, I'm coming over later or something like that. It's a very interesting system.

Kyra Blackwell: That is interesting. You know, Rachel, you are a smart home expert and we talked briefly about this last week with Doug around when you are integrating smart home features into someone else's home and there is some sort of transparency communication that has to happen there and I think you reported on that in this other tech piece you wrote. Can you share a little bit about what are the best practices if you're going to put a smart speaker or a smart thermostat or a smart camera or something in your parents home say?

Rachel Sarakola: I mean, you need to have a discussion with the person who's going to be living with it. That's not the kind of thing that you want to surprise anyone. You don't want any surprise messages popping up on on the TV. It could make them paranoid or, you know, nervous. So, it's very important to have that kind of discussion with someone. Also, anybody else that's coming in the house, whether that's your siblings, professional caretaker, if you're going to have cameras, if you're going to have any smart devices, smart speakers, it's a household decision.

Christine Sir Cleette: Even if you just have that stuff in your own home and say you have a babysitter, should you also be telling them that you have this smart stuff?

Rachel Sarakola: It's a good idea to do that. Yes. In some places, it can actually be illegal if you have that inside and you don't disclose to people coming in.

Kyra Blackwell: Okay. Well, you heard it here, folks. That's uh important information.

Kyra Blackwell: Okay, so to recap, we just went over two of the challenging things about caretaking, which is scheduling and communication. So, for scheduling, you recommend the Skylight Calendar and the Relish Day Hub to kind of keep everybody on the same page. And for communication, you know, there are free things you can do like sharing a notes app or even creating a Google doc that you can share around and that's free or you can get the Amazon Echo or the Jubilee TV which can help communicate over phone or video call or it can help you monitor. A lot of these options aren't cheap, but if you need them, then you need them and you price that cost based off of what you actually need.

Christine Sir Cleette: We're going to take a quick break and when we're back, we are going to talk about some of the tools that caregivers should consider for managing medications. That's a huge one. And all of the paperwork. So much paperwork. We'll be right back.

Kyra Blackwell: Welcome back. We're here with Rachel Craakola to talk about the tools that can help caregivers stay organized. So before the break, we talked about some of the tech solutions for scheduling and communicating. Now we're going to talk about managing medications. Rachel, this strikes me really close to home. My mother-in-law passed away a couple years ago and in the last part of her life, she had some memory loss and my sister-in-law was caring for her and my brother-in-law and the medication part of it was just a really big issue. They didn't always know if she had taken the medication she needed to take and we didn't really figure it out before the end for her. What are some of the solutions that some of the people that you talked to suggested?

Rachel Sarakola: Well, for some people a pill box can work really well, but other people need something a little bit more advanced. And one of the people I spoke to was very big into something called the Hero Smart Pill Dispenser. This is a pill dispenser that connects to the internet. It dispenses the right medication, the right amount of medication, and at the right time of day.

Rachel Sarakola: And also, it'll alert you if the people are not taking that medication. So that is a huge difference between just a normal pill box.

Kyra Blackwell: So it like will it notify you on your phone basically? Okay. So you could be at work, you know, mom's supposed to take her pill at noon and it will notify you if if she has or hasn't.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes. It sends alerts to both the user, so the person's supposed to be taking the medication, and then any designated caregivers in the app if they're not taking it.

Kyra Blackwell: And how much does that cost?

Rachel Sarakola: That's very expensive. It actually has a subscription cost that's $45 a month.

Kyra Blackwell: That's expensive.

Rachel Sarakola: If you sign up, you have to have a 12 month commitment.

Kyra Blackwell: Wow.

Rachel Sarakola: But I mean, if you don't take your medication,

Kyra Blackwell: can you put a price on that? Probably not.

Rachel Sarakola: I think they actually might offer a free trial before you lock yourself in. But one thing that's important to note is you should always check with your insurance company or if you have like an HSA, you should check and see if you can apply any of that to this device. A lot of these things we're talking about, like we've said, are expensive, but human time is also expensive. So, if this is able to help you not have someone there all the time, then that could be financially better actually in some ways.

Christine Sir Cleette: Right.

Rachel Sarakola: Right. people that I spoke to. I mean, a common theme was there's no substitute for being there in person, but obviously you can't run over every single time a pill needs to be taken or somebody doesn't know how to change the channel on the TV. So, yes, being able to have these substitutes can help and also helps. Maybe you go in and you're spending more quality time versus counting pills and making sure medication is taken.

Christine Sir Cleette: So, we have this other bucket of things that need to be organized. It's paperwork. It's budgeting. It's notes. What are the biggest challenges for caregivers when it comes to all of this?

Rachel Sarakola: There's so much paperwork and just so many things to keep track of. Something that I never thought about before I had my own family experience were things like passwords. And I know at Wire Cutter we recommend password managers, but just

Rachel Sarakola: having any kind of record of passwords is a big deal, but you might also need like someone's birth certificate, their power of attorney paperwork, you know, account numbers. And I think something that I learned here is a lot of people want actual paper, which is something. Yes, they do.

Kyra Blackwell: Like you mean agencies that you're you might be dealing with or banks or whatever. the hospital, they might want it physically on paper. I spoke to one woman who said that someone told her to fax paperwork and she was like, "Fax?" Like, you know, I didn't know they still had fax machines.

Kyra Blackwell: So, what are the best tools that you found to help with this category?

Rachel Sarakola: A lot of people talked about having a folder or a binder that you keep things in, but also as far as the fax, like good luck finding a fax machine. There's a there's a great service called Documo. It's a digital fax service, so you don't have to deal with an actual machine and you can send stuff almost like sending it through email. Except what makes this service different than other digital fax services is that it's HIPPA compliant. So, you don't have to worry about sending sensitive medical records or maybe your social security number or someone's social security number. It's a little bit more secure.

Christine Sir Cleette: That's great. You can take pictures on your phone or if you already have these documents on your computer, it's easy to just send them digitally

Kyra Blackwell: and then it prints out on the other end to somebody else's fax machine essentially. Okay.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes.

Kyra Blackwell: All right. What else?

Rachel Sarakola: Another thing that came up was people love checklists. Who doesn't love a good checklist?

Christine Sir Cleette: I love a checklist.

Rachel Sarakola: I love a checklist. And um a good way to keep your checklist organized is through an app called To-Doist. Not only can you keep track of tasks that need to be done, but also you can share them with other people. So, someone I spoke to actually said that he would create a checklist for a professional caregiver and they would be able to check it off and he could see when things were being completed and also add things as necessary. And then of course, you can also keep track of things like appointments or maybe questions you have to ask the doctor or grocery lists. So, it was came in handy.

Christine Sir Cleette: I actually use To-Doist. I use the free version to help me keep track of my assignments. I love it. I actually I didn't realize you could send it to other people.

Kyra Blackwell: I tried I I tried I Well, I did I I signed up for it, but I couldn't figure out how to use it, so I stopped. I went back to my Google Docs.

Christine Sir Cleette: As techie as I am, I do love a good handwritten checklist because there is something satisfying about crossing things off.

Rachel Sarakola: Absolutely.

Rachel Sarakola: One other thing that people talked about was having to organize finances,

Rachel Sarakola: which I think we all have problems with just when it's one person or a family. Uh, but when you throw someone else into the mix, it can be more complicated. So, a person I spoke to recommended Money Dance, which is a software program that allows you to keep track of multiple budgets. And this particular person I spoke to, he was dealing with his father's expenses and he he's a vet. So they were eligible to get money back from the VA for different expenses, but he needed to keep a detailed list of everything.

Kyra Blackwell: So that might be like groceries or, you know, medications. I mean, imagine having to itemize everything in your budget and also for one person,

Rachel Sarakola: right? M. So, this software makes it easy to pull those things out.

Christine Sir Cleette: That's super handy. I like that.

Rachel Sarakola: Yes,

Christine Sir Cleette: this is there's just so many good uh tips in here. I I feel like anybody who's kind of in this situation of caregiving, like at least one of these recommendations would probably suit, but let's just recap really briefly. So, we've talked about medication. If you are in a situation where you're trying to help someone manage their medication, the Hero Smart Pill Dispenser could be a really good solution in this case. It does have a pretty steep subscription service fee that comes along with it, but that might be worth it to you depending on your situation. And then for this big category of paperwork, we've got Documo, which is the very cool faxing technology, which um I even said it like it.

Kyra Blackwell: Never thought you would say that.

Christine Sir Cleette: I mean, I could probably use that because every once in a while I have to fax something. To-d Doist, which um will help you make checklists and share them. And then money dance if you're looking for some solutions for budgeting.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah. So, we've talked about a lot of tech solutions, but what if somebody isn't super tech-savvy? How should someone gauge whether to invest in these tools? Because they are really expensive. And of course, if it doesn't work, then you're out a lot of money.

Rachel Sarakola: They're very expensive. I would say that if you're not comfortable with technology, you should really ease into it. A lot of people love having a journal or they, like I said, they love having folders. You need to figure out what is best for you. You don't want to complicate things by adding tech into it if you're not comfortable with the technology. A lot of these things though, they make it very easy to learn. I wouldn't jump in and go buy everything on our list if you're not super comfortable with technology, but there are a lot of devices that you can try.

Christine Sir Cleette: Rachel, you have this other piece that we mentioned at the top of the episode. We'll link it in the show notes and it's tech devices to help aging in place. Are there any other items in this piece that are relevant to the conversation we've had today that would be really helpful if you're a caregiver trying to manage someone remotely or maybe even in the same town? What are some of the sort of highlights from that piece that you that you would want to bring here?

Rachel Sarakola: I would say a few of my favorite devices are also some of the easiest devices to add and those would be smart bulbs

Rachel Sarakola: and smart plugs. Both are relatively inexpensive and easy to set up and can really change a person's dayto-day. When it comes to smart bulbs, I don't know about you, but I hate walking into a dark room. Um, someone that's older could risk falling or just injuring themselves. smart bulbs. It's as easy as screwing in a light bulb and you connect it to an app and you can set it up to go on and off at certain times of day. A little bit more complicated. You could set it up with a motion sensor so someone walks into the room and the light goes on. That's very easy to implement. And also smart plugs. It just plugs into the wall, connects to an app, and anything electrical that plugs into the wall, you can plug into the smart plug. So maybe you have a fan or a lamp and you can just control that with an app. Similar to the smart plugs, set it to go on and off at different times of day. That's great. I know some people use that for their AC, too.

Kyra Blackwell: Yes. So it's not running all day, but also maybe you turn it on like before you get home so it's not super hot in the room.

Kyra Blackwell: Okay, Rachel, we've made it to the last question, which is, what's the last thing you've bought that you've really loved?

Rachel Sarakola: I didn't buy it, but I just got the Ninja air fryer, which I love. I love it. So easy to I had a different air fryer and it was just a mess and I was afraid it was going to catch on fire at some point, but this one is so easy to clean and it looks small, but it holds a lot and takes up less space on the counter and I love it.

Christine Sir Cleette: What do you mean you didn't buy it?

Rachel Sarakola: I didn't buy it. No, no, but it was it was gifted to me after some heavy um suggestions that I wanted it.

Christine Sir Cleette: That's lovely.

Kyra Blackwell: Well, this has been super helpful, Rachel. We'll link to everything we talked about in the show notes today.

Rachel Sarakola: Great. Thank you. Thanks for being here.

Christine Sir Cleette: Thank you,

Kyra Blackwell: Kyra. This truly was one of the heavier topics we've covered on the show.

Christine Sir Cleette: A bit harrowing, I'm not going to lie. Yeah.

Kyra Blackwell: Yeah. I mean, caregiving, there's probably no greater service and honor you can show your loved ones than taking care of them, whether they're children, whether they're your aging parents, and it can be very challenging. It's very emotional, and then there's just so many details to keep track of. Yeah,

Christine Sir Cleette: the big takeaway that I'm taking from this conversation with Rachel is that focusing on the ways that you can build some of these tools into your life to help you stay organized can maybe lift some of the burden. Whether it's building better ways to communicate with the people that you're working with, whether it's budgeting, thinking through what are the things that will have the biggest payoff for you. And I don't think that everything we talked about in this episode is going to be right for everyone,

Kyra Blackwell: right? I mean, one thing that is right for me personally, I think, is something like this skylight calendar. I really like this. Um, your eyes lit up. I was like, "Oo, I need this." I think that something like that would be really helpful just for my family.

Christine Sir Cleette: Yeah, I think a lot of these products that Rachel recommended could be used. I have trouble remembering things, which is why I use To-Doist. I think it's super helpful, and now I know I can send my checklist to other people. Didn't know that before. A reality that I have really come to uh realize exists in this world of care takingaking caregiving is the massive cost along with the emotional cost and the time. It is expensive to use many of these things. I think it's just everybody has to do what's best for their families, for the people in their lives. You're not going to be able to buy all of this stuff, maybe not even be able to buy any of it, but we have mentioned some free things in here. So, it's kind of like you just have to assess your own situation and and prioritize what you think you'll get the most value out of.

Kyra Blackwell: Right.

Christine Sir Cleette: Yeah.

Kyra Blackwell: Well, if you are interested in anything that we mentioned today, we will have everything linked in our show notes, links to Rachel's articles, both of the articles we talked about, and all of the products we mentioned today. That's it for us. Until next week. Thank you so much for listening. Bye.

Christine Sir Cleette: The Wire Cutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Garin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Mattie Maziello and Nick Pitman. Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Mariam Lozano, Alicia Beetup, Katherine Anderson, Rowan Nisto, and Diane Wong. Cliff Levy is Wire Cutters deputy publisher and general manager. Ben Fman is Wire Cutters editorin chief. I'm Kyra Blackwell. I'm Christine Sirette. Thanks for listening.

Rachel Sarakola: I made it all the way to the end, but I didn't wager all of my points on the last question, and the other guy did, and we both got the question right.