Anna: Hey everyone, it's Anna. Before we start the show, I've got a question about AI. We want to know if AI has changed a relationship in your life in some big way, and we want to know how. Maybe you and your partner kept having the same fight, so you let AI listen in as a kind of couple's therapist. Maybe you discovered a friend's chat history and figured out how they were really feeling about you. Or maybe you needed to impress a girl who you couldn't believe was texting you back, so you used AI to draft up some witty responses and then you had to meet up for a real life date. We're interested in all types of relationships, romantic, friendship, family, work. Tell us how you've encountered AI in your personal life, how it changed a specific relationship, and what you've learned or taken away. Record a voice memo and email it to us at modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com and we might use your story on the show. Again, that's modernlovepodcast@nytimes.com. Thanks. We can't wait to hear from you. Now, here's today's episode.

Anna Martin: From the New York Times. I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Look, I have tried lots of things to get over a breakup. I've done the classics. I've gotten a new haircut. In my case, I also bleached my hair. I've gone on shopping sprees. I've taken trips. I've eaten entire family-sized bags of salt and vinegar potato chips and had extreme mouth irritation for days after. But my guest today found herself going through a breakup that no haircut or familysized snack could heal. Lauren Bans is a TV writer who lives in LA. And when she was 7 months pregnant, her marriage fell apart. And then almost by accident, she discovered one of the most unique cures to heartbreak I've ever heard of. Lauren got into escape rooms. Like really into them. And somehow in the process of escaping, she found herself again. That's today on the show. Stay with us.

Anna Martin: Lauren Bans, welcome to Modern Love.

Lauren Bans: Thanks for having me.

Anna Martin: Lauren, we're here to talk about an unusual cure for heartbreak that you discovered. Before we talk about that, I want to hear what got you there. What was happening in your life?

Lauren Bans: Well, this was back in 2020 and I was married, 7 months pregnant with my first child and my husband and I separated suddenly. The short story is there was infidelity. The long story is there were probably things I wasn't noticing about our marriage, issues that I wasn't addressing cuz it was pretty scary for me to be pregnant for the first time. So, I put some blinders on. Um, I had noticed he was distant and he seemed unhappy, but when it happened, it truly felt like a shock. The rug getting pulled out from underneath me just like a full life implosion.

Anna Martin: Share with me the sort of breaking point of this marriage.

Lauren Bans: So, um it was in December. It was right after Christmas. Um, and I was 7 months pregnant. And I remember we were going out to dinner at this fancy restaurant, which was part of my Christmas gift. And I was scanning the menu trying to plat out what I was going to order as any normal person does.

Anna Martin: You can't go to a restaurant and be surprised by the menu. Study it like a historical text or like something you're going to have a test on. Right. Of course.

Lauren Bans: Exactly. And I was also planning what my husband would order cuz which is maybe why I'm divorced. We didn't talk about that reason. But I was like, what if you got a protein and I got a pasta? I'm gonna share.

Anna Martin: I do the exact same thing. It's not just for me. It's like, well, this obviously we're splitting to double our food, so here's what I'm going to get and here's what I'm going to suggest you get. Anyway, keep going. So, you were looking at this menu.

Lauren Bans: I was very deep into this menu when he told me he had to tell me something and I was like, does he not want the protein? And then I looked up and he seemed very upset and he told me that he had cheated on me. Wo. It was clearly, you know, I think looking back, it was his way of kind of imploding our lives because he didn't want it anymore. But at the time, wildly shocking.

Anna Martin: He drops this news on you. It's a moment where everything changes. In the days that follow, are you thinking like, let's salvage this thing or or where's your thinking around what this means for your future and your baby?

Lauren Bans: No, I think at that point it all kind of came flooding in. Like I realized there was something seriously off between us. Um, I had weirdly gotten coffee that morning with my friend Willa and was complaining about how I felt so alone and I didn't know what was going to happen with my marriage and it was so scary. And I remember Willa saying something along the lines of, "It's so crazy how people need an event to end things."

Anna Martin: Willow.

Lauren Bans: And then this happens. No. I was like, "Am I in a movie? It seems very blatant foreshadowing.

Anna Martin: If you were in that writer's room, you'd say, "Well, that's not believable."

Lauren Bans: A little on the nose. A little on the nose. And then I got the event and I was I think this is it.

Anna Martin: I'm understanding that this was like it felt final to Willa's, you know, point. This was the act. How did you explain what was happening to friends or family or did you explain what was happening?

Lauren Bans: I did. It was rough. You know, my parents loved him. He was such a nice guy. He was the kind of guy you see and you're like, I should marry that guy. He's super sweet. He's softspoken. He's smart. He's nerdy. The kind of guy that kind of feels safe, especially to parents. Um, you know, I my parents flew in from Minnesota right away to kind of be with me. It really felt the aftermath of this felt like I was in hospice.

Anna Martin: It was just people taking I mean you're laugh you're laughing but I you know I've never been married and I've never been pregnant and I've never been cheated on while married and pregnant but I will say of course I've had my own just complete ruptures with reality and I have been cheated on and it feels like yeah it just it completely destabilized and I'm curious if it felt like this for you but just my sense of who I was. I was like this person who had value and knew it and who could handle things and was, you know, desirable and and anyway, it just it completely knocked me out of myself. I wonder if that resonates for you at all.

Lauren Bans: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I already felt like I was in an alien body because I didn't recognize it in the mirror and you have someone kicking inside of you and I just pregnancy is one of those strange feelings already and then to have this happen I was like I don't even know what my life is. I don't recognize my own life.

Anna Martin: I mean, and that was my next question is like there's the immediate pain of it and it really I've had people come and shuffle in one after another. It is like you're sick because you do feel that way, right? Like I also had a kind of constant barrage of people. But as you were there and in such pain, what were you thinking about in terms of the future, in terms of being a parent, in terms of what that would look like for you?

Lauren Bans: I was just so terrified. I just I think my nervous system was in complete control and I couldn't regain any sort of hold on it. I would sometimes wake up with a start at 4:00 a.m. or the middle of the night. You know that feeling sometimes you wake up in a hotel. It was like everything was alien to me. I was in my sister's bed. Her husband had kindly moved into the office. So, I was just sleeping with my sister every night and waking up at 4:00 a.m. thinking, "Where in the world am I? What is my life?"

Lauren Bans: Um, but I think the hardest moment for me every day was the first wake up in the morning. If you manage to fall asleep, there's a split second when you wake up before your body and brain register your circumstances where there's this glimpse of hope that you're just waking up as yourself and then you realize what your life is and it all comes flooding back in and it is so paralyzing. And you know, I do think any breakup is kind of the great common denominator and you all have the same terrible thoughts that the your smarter version of yourself would say, "Well, that's ridiculous." But I'm like sure Albert Einstein when he was broken up with was like, "Will I ever love again?"

Anna Martin: I love thinking about him in that position and thank you for putting that. He's like crying. He takes off his little glasses. He's doing that tongue out thing that there's that famous picture of. What were some of these thoughts that were racing through your mind?

Lauren Bans: all the most cliche thoughts a broke up person could do. Um, you know, will I ever love again? How will I ever date? How will I have this baby? How will I raise this baby? I couldn't even get into specifics of the future. They were so terrifying to me. I think my parents ended up doing most of the baby prepping for me. I couldn't go to the store and pick out a crib. It just was too much for me. So, I told someone else to do it.

Anna Martin: I'm like, "This is obviously going to come at some point. There's a clock on But you couldn't you couldn't even think about I mean it's striking to me too that it's like if you're not feeling capable of choosing a crib to feel capable of bringing a human into the world and feeding it and doing all of the things that humans require.

Lauren Bans: Oh that's terrifying. It is it is really it is really scary. Yes. Yes. And that like compounds the fear. You're like, "Oh man, I can't do anything right now, and I'm about to have a dependent human life. How am I gonna do it?

Anna Martin: We'll be right back. Was there anything besides I guess sleeping? Was there anything you found that made you feel better?

Lauren Bans: I tried everything. Um, you know, uh, friends took me to dinners and movies and there was some, you know, just hearing a story by a friend of something funny that happened to them. Maybe a small breath of relief, but I think I cried in about every restaurant bathroom in Los Angeles.

Anna Martin: Cool. They should give you an award for that.

Lauren Bans: They should. They should. At least a free dessert. They did not. They did not. Oh my god. The pregnant crying. I mean, yeah, it it is. Listen, I'm only laughing in recognition because we it is like a it's a thing where you just can't stop it. And at a certain point, it's like, at least again, for me, in terms of my breakups, which were not as extreme, I'm like, well, why stop it? I sort of lost my embarrassment about it almost. And that was actually quite productive for me to feel like I could cry in public, right?

Lauren Bans: I got a little mean at some point, which is strange for me cuz I'm from Minnesota. Maybe, you know, we have a reputation for being very nice, and I normally consider myself very nice, but I remember being in Whole Foods, dragged along by my parents or a friend, I think it was my parents, and this sweet older woman who kind of looked like June Squibb, but wasn't June Squibb, came up to me and touched my back lightly and asked like, "Is it a boy or a girl?" And I just looked at her and said, "I'm not pregnant."

Anna Martin: I was so clearly pregnant.

Lauren Bans: She was so flustered. She got tears in her eyes. I'm like, "Oh god, am I going to give her a stroke? This is a horrible thing to do." But I like weirdly would get off on doing little acts of aggression. Just to be like, "The world was so mean to me. I'm going to be mean to this like sweet old woman for no reason."

Anna Martin: And let's pour one out for her. Like, wherever she is, if she's listening, you were pregnant.

Lauren Bans: I was pregnant. I was pregnant. You're the best. So sorry. Oh, she's so We're sorry. Yes, cuz I immediately went back to therapy. I did all the Los Angeles things one can do when you're going through this. I did Reiki. Did not like it. This woman just kind of hovered above my heart with her hand and made monkey noises.

Anna Martin: Wait, literally.

Lauren Bans: Literally. I was like, and I was like, "What are you pulling?" She's like, "There's a lot of heartbreak here." And I'm like, "Yeah, obviously. Obviously. I'm a sobbing pregnant lady.

Anna Martin: Raiki is new. Yes. And then she's pulling it out. What else? So, there's Reiki in the LA Playbook. There's what? Going to the beach. I'm not even sure what you guys do over there.

Lauren Bans: I did. A friend did take me to the beach and I screamed into the water. I mean, normally the playbook for me would be similar to when I was broken up with in New York, which would be going out, drinking a lot of wine, and trying to make out with some strangers. So, basically, that's mine, too. Yeah. Yeah, that's mine, too. Yes. But hard to do when you're pregnant, you know. Sure. Can't drink really. I mean, you can, but I didn't. Um, and I did join Tinder for a blip. I was like, I'm going to be like everyone else, just using it for attention. And then the second I got a swipe, I was like, should we for a date?

Anna Martin: Pick from the shoulders up. Yeah.

Lauren Bans: Yeah. Full catfishing. Just old pics. Didn't mention I was pregnant or married. But you're trying all these things. Nothing is working.

Anna Martin: Nothing is working. And this Lauren is where escape rooms come into the picture. How did you end up in one of these rooms?

Lauren Bans: So my younger sister came to visit me. You were with your older sister. I was with my older sister before and she is a scientist. She runs a little more dorky than I do, but no shame. I I am dorky in my ways as well. Um, and she came and I had been doing a lot of daytime movies, but I found with movies that I could find any piece of a narrative and make it about myself and feel bad. Like I saw Bad Boys 2 and there was this small romance plot and I was like, I can't take this. This is too much. So movies weren't working and my sister is a big puzzle fan and she loved doing escape rooms in Atlanta which is where she lives and she brought me to an escape room.

Anna Martin: How did she even bring this up? This does not feel like on the bevy of normal like hangout options, right? Like how did she even bring this up to you?

Lauren Bans: Well, I think the people who are coming in to visit me were tasked. They might be huddling behind my back, tasked with getting me out of the house at least once a day and with coming up with something to do cuz I was making no decisions or offering. I said no to everything. And so she was like, "Hey sis, we're going to go to an escape room." What was your immediate reaction?

Lauren Bans: I really thought that they were for corporate team building. Yes. To me, it's like ax throwing. It's like that only exists for like the corporate retreat of the tech company, right? Exactly. Really? We're going to do the some like the thing 3M employees do to bond? I don't want to do that. Um, but I also didn't have any other ideas and I weirdly was open to people just taking control of my body and mind.

Anna Martin: Does she tell you anything about like what type of escape room or do you just roll up to a place and you're surprised? Roll up to a place. It's I believe it was called 60 out was the company and it's in like a derelic strip mall on a weird in between neighborhood like in between Korea Town and Silver Lake. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, "Oh, cool. We're here at 10:30 a.m. to dumpster dive or whatever we're supposed to be doing." And I'm going to put you some context clues. 60 out. You have 60 minutes to get out. Smart. I hadn't thought about that. You had good at escape rooms. Take me next time. Okay. So, and and bring me into this first one. What was the mission?

Lauren Bans: My sister had picked a Mount Olympus themed escape room. Cool. I believe the objective was to end. There was a war between the Titans and the gods and we needed to end it and restore Mount Olympus to its place of peaceful glory.

Anna Martin: That makes sense as a mission for you two on like 10:30 on a Monday. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, a pregnant lady is the one to do this, not Hercules or anything. It should be me. And is this puzzle master, I assume, given your description, is telling you this. You know, your sister has done these before. This is the first time you're hearing this. Tell me how this is hitting you. Are you like rolling your eyes like this is ridiculous or are you feeling like let's go.

Lauren Bans: I think I was crying as he was going. My sister was nodding avidly at his story. I was already in tears like trying to stifle them back thinking about my life. I think the puzzle master was like, "What in the hell is going on? I'm going to close the door gently behind this sobbing pregnant woman." But immediately he closed the door and the clock went on and I don't know if this is the Tracy flick in me left from being like a studious high school student. I just like went into gear. I was like, "Okay, I think we have to do this." Oh, a problem and a countdown clock. Say no more. And something just clicked inside of me and I was like, "I have to solve this. This is a problem before me that I can solve."

Anna Martin: Tell me more about that feeling. Had you felt that way since the divorce?

Lauren Bans: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I didn't even realize at the time that I was for the first time not thinking about my circumstances. I didn't even think about the fact I was pregnant. I was just there was a simple puzzle objective in front of me and a countdown clock and I just focus on the puzzle and it was such a relief.

Lauren Bans: We get out on Mount Olympus and then I believe No. Yeah, we're just at Mount Olympus. You know how that happened. Me and my sister get off at Mount Olympus. Yeah. A strip mall in Silver Lake that takes you to Mount Olympus. Um, I believe you went into I mean this was six years ago now, but um kind of this beautiful heavenly circle with ionic columns that were probably made out of cardboard because it is an escape room. But at some point a trap door opens. I know that that was the one hiccup in this room. I was so into it and then at minute 45 the trap door to go underground opened. It was the Minotaur's cave. And I was like, I feel like I'm pregnant and shouldn't slither through this one. So, my sister gets down to do it. And I just am kind of waiting her for her to, you know, spelunk to the end of the game.

Anna Martin: I was going to ask, was it like that moment upon waking where you kind of recognized again your circumstance?

Lauren Bans: Yes. Shoot. It happened that fast. Yeah. So she came out of the Minotaur's cave. I mean, it took her about 5 minutes. She really had to slither and I was like sad again. Um but we then solved the escape room. We did it. I think the guy was very impressed with us.

Anna Martin: When you are there triumphant with your sister, bring me into your body and your brain. I mean it feels like you know quite literally this was an escape for you. How were you feeling? I don't know in in the moments after in the car ride home

Lauren Bans: I was feeling relief which I really think is the greatest emotion you can have as an adult just relief you know I think I was able to get out of you know just a full nervous system response just constant dread and the lump in your throat like the physical symptoms for at least a good chunk of that escape room were gone and I think on the way home she was staying about five more days. My sister and I said I would do another one which is the first time I had offered to do anything in the last 6 weeks.

Anna Martin: That's you making a decision and actually you know the escape room is a series of very quick rapid decisions. I mean, it strikes me that after this period of feeling completely paralyzed, this was a moment where you had to be extremely decisive and you were.

Lauren Bans: Yes. I definitely felt curious about it. Um I noticed that this was basically the first time besides for sleep when I wasn't thinking about it. and thought, you know, I was doing all these things that addressed the problem headon, like therapy and Reiki and you're talking through it. And I think for me, I was so scared that I was going to be incapable of taking care of this human life that was about to come into the world. Just feeling capable of a dumb puzzle, of putting portraits in order on a wall, was such a gratifying feeling. I just hadn't felt capable in any way since it happened. And it was just proof, as you know, a stitch pillow might say, I could do hard things. But I kind of needed that. I just needed that so much, like some validation that that part of my brain still worked.

Anna Martin: That you could do it. Yes. We'll be right back. your sister. You do another escape room with your sister, it sounds like. Yes. She eventually leaves though, your entrance into the escape room community. So once she's gone, what's your plan? What do you do?

Lauren Bans: I start doing them by myself during the day, which is such I can't tell you what a crazy site this is. One, it's just weird to go I don't know why they have 10:30 a.m. time slots, but they it feels early. Yeah, it feels a little early and it is like a group activity, one would assume, right? So going alone also feels so weird. Some of them aren't even possible to do alone. You need someone to stand on this mark while the other person does that. And for those, the puzzle master would just come in and help me. They're literally supposed to be for group bonding. But I found I got better and better at them. And I found just I could fully lose myself in the puzzle. I just was like, "Got that. I'll put these clues together." And I did not think at all about the future. I could just be in the moment. It was the only thing that brought me to the moment.

Anna Martin: Give me like a You're You're in the movie biz. Give me like the movie montage of you in these escape rooms, you know, first slot. Like what are you seeing? What are the sets? What are the puzzles? Who are the people you're meeting? Like, give me that montage if you can.

Lauren Bans: I did a mafia escape room where at the end the bones of the guy the mafia killed fall out on you and I was like, "Oh, can I do that to a pregnant woman?" I do feel like also your pregnancy is something that I know must space one where the stakes are you're running out of oxygen so you have to bring oxygen back and I was really able to fall for the stakes so I would get really nervous but I think that was good my ability to believe it let me really hone in the funniest one I did is I did Zombie on a chain which involves a live actor just alone as a pregnant woman you got to describe that one you can't say zombie on a chain like I know zombie on a chain is. So, what was happening in zombie on a chain?

Lauren Bans: Well, it turns out it's very self-escriptive. There's an actor who is a zombie on a chain at one end of the room and every 5 minutes that goes by, the chain loosens up about an inch. And if the zombie gets you, the game is over. So, it's not just time. It's like if the zombie can reach you and attack you. It's like scary. It's like haunted house X escape room type thing collab. Exactly. And this I was about 8 months pregnant, maybe eight months in a week. Oh my god. And truly I scared the live actor more than he scared me. He really was worried about like sending me into labor. So he was like, like really not giving it his all. And at one point he was like, "You're doing okay." And I'm like, "Don't break character. Don't break character. I paid for this." The zombie on a chain's like, "Hey lady, listen. I don't want to be responsible for anything like that." Yes. He's like, "There's a lawsuit here. I'm not going to."

Anna Martin: You're like, I paid for this. Oh my god, that's so Well, did you did you solve it before the zombie on a chain? I did. I did. Are you solving all of these? I I'm solving. It turns out I'm also good at this. Sounding like it. Like these sound complicated. These sound like difficult. And it seems like you escaped from all of these rooms.

Lauren Bans: Yes. I think there were one or two I didn't make it in time but got close. But even then, it just is such a nice sense of accomplishment. It is meaningless. You're in a totally madeup story in a totally madeup land, but it feels so good to solve something. You're talking about how in these moments you feel capable, you feel relief, you feel locked in. I mean, you feel this kind of intense focus that allows all things to fall away. I guess I wonder like when it's such a high like that, when it's such relief, is there a comedown? Like would you leave these rooms and feel like, "Oh my god, I got to go back to my real life or did real life start to feel a little less scary?"

Lauren Bans: It might It was still terrifying, but I do think it started to feel a little less scary. You know, at the same time, I when I started doing these rooms, I hadn't even planned a nursery. There was nowhere for my baby to sleep. I sent my parents out to buy baby furniture and then I would go in and I would save, you know, Artemis 2 from Space Apparel, right? And then come out and I think I went shopping at Mini Crate and Barrel with my mom for a changing table. You know, it was like I accomplished something there. I got my brain and body used to the feeling of solving things again and then I was able to translate a little bit. I don't think I could solve my life or figure out what was going to happen to me after the baby came or come up with a satisfying plan for the future, but I could take care of things increment by increment into the future. I could plan my baby's room now.

Anna Martin: Huh. That feels really powerful. Honestly, even though you say it's increment by increment, going to Home Depot with your mom, that does not sound like something you could have done before the escape rooms.

Lauren Bans: No, it absolutely wasn't. And I think another aspect of it was I was feeling so bad about myself for either ignoring or missing the signs of my marriage, you know, for not noticing that my husband was so unhappy, for not picking up on the clues. And I always thought I was an observant, intuitive person. And it totally broke my confidence in that notion that going into a room and finding clues for where the pirates treasure is made me feel like, okay, I can see things. I mean, maybe I'm less good at the emotional clues, but but I can find clues for where the treasure is. Yes.

Anna Martin: Like Well, no. I mean, that that makes sense to me, too. It's like Yeah. We talked about how these kinds of things just sort of your identity is thrown into question. All these abilities, whatever, like values, things you thought you could do, you can't do anymore. And so it makes sense to me that even this ability to like look really closely would feel like something you were reclaiming almost. Absolutely. Did you like tip them a lot when you left this game? I did. I did. I feel like I would be like, "Here's $500 or something. You guys are helping me more than you know." You know, it felt crazy to be earnestly escape rooms really saved my life, but they did. I mean, I turned it into a bit, but they did. Yeah. You mentioned the worst part of your day being waking up and remembering. Was that happening to you less when you started doing escape rooms? On the days I had an escape room booked, yes. I mean, there's still that initial gut punch when you wake up and then immediately after the gut punch, I'd think, "Oh, I have an 11:00 a.m. booked." You know, you kind of know what you're going to do in the immediate future, and it lessens the unknown horror of it all. Yeah. And meanwhile, it sounds like you are preparing space for the baby. I mean literally, physically with the crib and all this stuff and emotionally it seems like you're better able to imagine you know caring for this child and of course you can't keep doing it like you are getting pregnanter and pregnanter by the day right so you had to end it at some point yes do you remember I remember very close to my due date my OB be was like, "Okay, so what is the birth plan?"

Lauren Bans: Um they were like, "What is the birth plan?" She said, she asked um and I had been putting it off because I didn't know. I'm like, I don't know. Do I want to be induced if it doesn't come out? There's all these questions you have to answer and I had been putting off answering any questions. And I think I might have done maybe five or six escape rooms when I was like, "Oh, I think I know what I want to do." And I was like, I think I didn't want to be um surprised by birth. It was that was too scary. I just had a big surprise in my life that upended my world. So, I chose to be induced. We set a date to be induced. And um besides for it being the first week of full-blown COVID everywhere, I really liked that decision. I was like, I know exactly what's happening to me and I feel in control of the situation.

Anna Martin: Oh my god, it was co though. That's really intense. It was so intense. I gave birth in a full-blown N95 mask. They kicked my sister out after the baby came out. At one point I threw up in my mask and I was like, I need a change. My god, it was really intense. Is your ex-husband in the picture at all at this time right now? No, because you could only bring one person to the hospital and I did not want him. I wanted my sister. Um, but after the baby was born and we got back to my apartment, he came into the picture very soon and came over and was a dad and had spent time and now we co-parent um 50% 50/50. So things are good. You know, he's a very present, loving parent in that moment. What was the reality of these first days, weeks with her? Did you were you able to make decisions? Did you know what to do? Yeah, I somehow it was wonderful. She came out and it felt like I had the opposite of postpartum depression. It like snapped me back somehow. That's really wonderful. I felt ready to handle it. And because it was COVID and we were isolated to our apartment, it really didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. It kind of felt like it had an escape room vibe—like we're trapped in a space together and I'm used to this now. So, what's the mission here? Raise an adult that's empathetic and caring. Yeah, so that one's a little harder and it takes more than an hour. Yes, we get a longer time limit. Thank God. I wonder too, you know, before the escape room discovery, you were nervous about finding romantic connection again. And I wonder how that progressed too.

Lauren Bans: Um, it was all in my head, all of my nerves. I have dated a couple people like lovely people since my divorce and I'm currently have um a very lovely boyfriend who is also a TV writer also divorced and we weirdly love to do escape rooms. Don't you even say that. How did you Was that like on your profile or whatever if you met online? No. I had to bury it as kind of a joke in an early date. You know, when you're pitching with someone new, you're like, "We could see a movie. We could go to this restaurant. We could do an escape room." I like threw it in the middle of a bunch of options. And he was like, "I love escape rooms." And I was like, "Okay, we're masks off now." So, we do them maybe one every two weeks, just the two of us. He's very good at this. Okay. He's very like puzzleed. Okay. Um I thought it was gonna be this grand like, "Wow, full circle. Look at me. All these thoughts I had." I'm usually just like slightly annoyed with him doing them. I'm like, "Give me the book. You're hogging the book." He's like, "I need just Yeah. I mean, is he Yeah. What's your dynamic in the room? Are you the leaders? Are you both leaders?" And that's why it's tough. We're both leaders. I think that's why it's good. We cap it at just us.

Anna Martin: Will you bring your daughter to an escape room when she's age?

Lauren Bans: I have. I just did. And the last few months what? Yeah, we did um a Scooby-Doo themed escape room because they No, it it they said that kids were allowed. Um I did like it recommended kids eight and above and she's just a very tall six. So I slid her in and she was a little scared in there. They were playing eerie music and she was plugging her ears and saying, "Why is it so spooky?" She didn't do much in terms of clue finding and I like doing it so much I'm just like you can be poke at stuff I'll take care of it. Okay. Well now that to me and sorry that I'm forcing so many full circle moments onto the story that is still you know continuing but you were pregnant with Ellie doing his escape rooms scared for her to come into the world and to be in this creepy Scooby-Doo escape room with your daughter. I mean that must have been quite meaningful. Yes, it was. I mean part of me had the thought beforehand is you know they say if you play classical music to your baby maybe they'll come out like a musical virtuoso. I'm like did she seep the knowledge of escaping the room in utero and now she'll be incredible at it. And the answer is no. She's Lauren. She's six. Yeah. She's six. Yes. Yes. Um, but she was so when they opened the door and they were like, "Congratulations, you did it." Like the light in her face, she was so happy to feel victorious. And I'm like, "Oh, she has the same dopamine reward system that I do." So, that's good. That was handed down.

Anna Martin: Lauren, what a delight. Thank you so much for this conversation.

Lauren Bans: Of course. It was so lovely to talk to you. If you ever want to do an escape room, call me.

Anna Martin: Oh, believe me, I know who to call. Okay, great.