so hi everyone and welcome to in Good Company I'm Nicola tangan and the CEO of the Norwegian someone wealth fund and today we are joined by Patrick Doyle and Josh kobza the executive chair and the CEO of restaurant Brands

and today we are joined by Patrick Doyle and Josh kobza the executive chair and the CEO of restaurant Brands

so basically you get two for the priz or one like in a good fast food retail shop

they own Burger King team Hortons firehouse and Popeye so basically combined they sell billions of burgers coffees chicken sandwiches

so hey what's so good about the fast food industry we think it's a great industry you know it's a very stable industry

people generally eat three times a day 365 days a year uh so it's pretty consistent business to be in

and there are a bunch of of really incredible Global growth drivers

you have the formalization of the restaurant sector all around the world especially in developing markets that's a decades long uh journey and that drives a lot of structural growth for us

it's also a pretty good margin business so our margin profile is something like 40% operating margins and it's pretty low Capital intensity

so something like 10% of IAA goes into capex cheap to make the shops and uh high margin

yeah overall sounds sounds like a good combination

now you're in coffee you're in Burgers chicken sandwiches why are those particularly good sectors

they're the four biggest ones uh globally

so we're already we have amazing brands in the four largest segments of Quick Service restaurants globally pretty good place to be

well there's one one thing here which is glaringly absent in my mind which is pizza

terrible category

now uh Patrick you previously the CEO of Domino's Pizza so why have you not entered the pizza business with this company

we've got plenty to work on with the with four categories we're in today

Russell's doing a terrific job at Domino's and there is just enormous value that we can create through these four categories and four Brands around the world today

so we need to prove that this is uh a business that makes sense having this holding company having these four Brands together that we can run them better than if they were uh independent and separate

and we can we can prove that with four categories we don't need to prove it with five

but when you compare if you and now contrast and compare Pizza against burgers for instance what how do how does it stack up what's the best business

well I you know look I don't know that it's a a question of a best business

is a franchise or because mostly your income is coming from uh from collecting royalties from the franchisees as a as an investor in the public company and the franchise or they're both terrific businesses

But ultimately the health of the business comes down to the cash on cash returns for the franchisees

so you know the answer on what is the best business it's the it's the business that gives the best returns to the franchisees

if they're getting a great return on their investment they're going to build more they're going to reinvest uh in their restaurants

so franchisees they basically run the restaurants for you

they run the restaurants they own it it's their capital and it's their return

if they're getting a great return then they're going to build more of them and that's going to accelerate the overall growth of the brand

and because we're fundamentally our earning stream is off the top line as a royalty as a percentage of sales um our job is to create a great economic uh business and opportunity for those franchisees

and so as a franchisor to me the best business is the one that gives the best return to the franchisee and those that are most focused on that

and what and what are you seeing just now I mean you have inflation which has been high you have some economic challenges in many countries what does the consumer behave like

overall the business is doing pretty well and we're seeing pretty good Trends from from consumers

if you look at our our results last year and especially uh in the fourth quarter we actually saw a bunch of great things

in our our biggest business in Tims we were positive in traffic in our our Burger King business which we've been working to change the trajectory of we're also positive in traffic for the first time in a while

so in a lot of our biggest business we're actually seeing prettyy good Trends

are you seeing any impact on the weight loss strikes

nothing that we can see yet no

do you think there will be

I think it's hard to say but it you know we really haven't seen anything that that we can pick up on at this point

I mean if you do the the quick math if 10 to 20% of people wind up on these drugs over time and they reduce their caloric intake by 10 or 20% you're talking about you know a 1 to 4% overall reduction in calories consumed by people

and look these drugs for people who need them it's wonderful it's a it's a fabulous thing

but if that happens over time it's a negligible effect on you know on the overall restaurant industry

what drives the restaurant industry ultimately is the number of employed people

people who are employed value the convenience of food being prepared for them meals being prepared for them particularly if it's a two income household

um just time value is high and so the convenience of getting a meal prepared for you is you know is the value of that is terrific

and so you know what I always look at is um you know tell me what employment levels look like in markets

and if if overall employment is rising it's a very good sign for uh the restaurant industry

if you start seeing jobs getting cut um then that becomes a bit more of a concern

okay well let's zoom in on uh on on Burger King

now we had a we had the COO of the OT Burger Company on the uh on the show how do you how do you compare the two companies

we're entirely focused on the Whopper which is our Flagship product

it's a huge brand and of itself flame grilling which is our big functional differentiator

uh we're the only large player that does flame grilling and and it generates a really differentiated taste that our guests love

and have it your way uh which is something we started a long time ago and we're uh we're bringing it back in even more modern iteration

really reaiming The Flame or something that's that's the big part of the plan um

so we've been working on on that that is the big investment plan that we put together we announced about $400 million a year and a half or so ago

and we're working on a lot of things uh including modernizing all the facilities

we think we need to have uh modern convenient restaurants everywhere in America and we fell behind on that

I have a Big Mac hair and I have a double w hair just how do you how do you compare them as a Prof professional

not the waer is much better I don't know where to start

why I'm a little surprised you say this

but if you you like scientifically what is the difference there scientifically the Whopper is much bigger uh that that's our starting point

uh it's a large uh burger and you get more uh

but the other big differentiator is what I mentioned is the flame grilling

what does the flame do it gives it like more of a Char boiled taste uh that guests uh very much prefer over the kind of the flat top grilling

now you kicked it off in the 50s right

yeah I think it was 1957 uh was the birthday

has it changed since then or is it the same thing

it's evolved a little bit but not too it's pretty close to the original version

what do you guys eat Whopper any particular

no it's straight a straight Whopper with cheese right

I I'm a little bit more of a double cheeseburger guy I have been since I I I was growing up that's my favorite

is it a good as it can be while you working to improve it further

I I think the biggest place that we can improve the Whopper is delivering on it more consistently uh every day every time

it is America's favorite burger but we haven't always executed perfectly

and there's a lot of stuff that Tom Curtis who runs the the Burger King business is doing uh to serve an even better Whopper every time

we're doing a lot more training uh to make sure we deliver the gold standard specification of the Whopper

and we've also done a lot of investments in equipment uh so we had some dated equipment in the restaurants and we put in tens of millions of dollars together with the franchises to make sure that all of the equipment is up to spec in modern

that has a really big impact on the consistency that you get in everything from the toasting of the Buns to the the heat of the product that comes out

so we put a lot of focus on just making sure we're delivering that gold standard Whopper every time every day

now Patrick you were in charge of the big rehash of Domino's Pizza when you basically went out and said it's actually not very good but now we are going to sort out something which is much better are you planning to do the same hair

no you it's it's interesting if if you look at the four brands that we have the one thing and at some level the only thing that they have in common other than allbe restaurants is they have the best-in-class food in each of their categories

Popeyes is the best chicken in the chicken category just absolutely no question

the Whopper is the best product in the burger category

you go through all of them Tims has remarkable uh coffee and the same at at Firehouse it's the only one that's that's hot um and heated

so the food is in great shape

Domino's was in a very different situation where you know what they were great at was service and delivery and value um and they executed quite consistently

their problem was people didn't think the food was very good so very different circumstance here

where we've got some opportunities like with Burger King and and frankly speeda service wise on popey we've got to execute this great food at a higher level

so a lot of the opportunity for these Brands is going to come from execution um service levels in the restaurants making sure all of the restaurants look great um

some of the Burger King restaurants probably half of them in the US far less of an issue outside the US where most of the Burger Kings look great um but in the US half of them really need to be remodeled um

far less of an issue outside the US where most of the Burger Kings look great um but in the US half of them really need to be remodeled um

so it's more an execution issue here than a food issue

do you have a responsibility when it comes to people's Health

yeah I think we do need to be very thoughtful uh about the ingredients that go into our food how we prepare it and the nutrition of it

and we've become much more conscious of those ingredients uh over time

Burger King was one of the the first Brands actually to go through all of its ingredients and take out all artificial colors flavors

we actually we moved to a much cleaner ingredient list about four or five years ago and so we have been thoughtful about that

and we're trying to also be much more transparent in terms of the nutritional values of of the food

well you know we um we live up in in in all way lots of fish L over fish Burgers what's on your next menu plan

so if if you go to the Burger Kings here in the US which I highly encourage uh we have a firy fish which is a spicier version of a fish sandwich that's out now for Lent

and I don't know about a chicken burger but we actually have a couple of great chicken products already

we have our original chicken sandwich which has been a favorite for about 60 years and we now have our Royal Krispy uh chicken sandwich

so there's a lot of chicken options a couple of fish options uh and encourage you to check them out

plant-based has perhaps not taken off the way we thought a few years ago

it's interesting on that um in Europe it has

so you know you're looking at a pretty high mix on plant-based now in Europe

we've got markets that are in the 20 30% of sales are plant-based products

what the biggest plant-based countries

the further north you get in Europe the more you've got plant-based the further south still less so

you know Germany um Scandinavia generally um the UK you've got higher levels

you get down to Italy France somewhat lower gree somewhat lower

uh I think Austria is maybe the highest um plant-base right now um

but it's been much less of a uh driver of business in the US um it's a low single digit percentage of of sales in the US

but adoption in Europe has actually been very strong

moving on to Tim Hortons now I think perhaps if you not from Canada it's difficult to understand how what what an institution it is right how how important is TE Hort

it's incredibly important to our guests in Canada and it's very important to to us as well

I think it it is one of the most special and and most unique qsr grants anywhere in the world um

it's almost synonymous with the country our our logo uh has some similarities to to the Canadian flag

and I think Canadians view it as theirs uh rightly so

and what's good about it

I think the coffee business overall is a great business it's a very routine based business

so a lot of our guests come to us every single day of the week some multiple times a day so there's a lot of loyalty

and the beverage business is a good business a high margin uh business

what it's it's an addiction business right it's a recurring I me this this is my number four today

great that's perfect legal drug right

you stop drinking coffee you get like headache three days I mean several days headache

yeah I I have it every morning I don't I don't do three or four a day but uh but every morning pretty much

but it's an amazing business the product is terrific people love it

and truly I mean I've spent you know half of my career outside of the US there is no brand um in its Home Market that is as beloved as Tim's is in Canada

so how do you think about that then so it's kind of maxed out in terms of Love penetration shopping patterns all that kind of stuff where do you take it from there

love yes penetration no

there's still there are still more opportunities

business in the afternoon and evenings is growing very fast we're moving more and more to cold beverage which is a great driver of business

um so it's now growing outside of Canada including into the US um

and that's really what's going to drive growth on it

but there's still even opportunities in Canada

Canada is one of the faster growing populations um amongst developed countries in the world just because of the immigration policies it's growing probably a percent and a half a year

so we should be growing our you know restaurant counts at least a percent and a half uh a year in Canada

so there there are actually a lot of growth opportunities there

but it's our biggest business from a cash flow standpoint for RBI um it's bigger than Burger King

it's the more you can do on the global coffee scene

oh Absol absolutely

you know one of the reasons we got involved with the business is we think that the global coffee bussiness is one of the most compelling opportunities out there and will be for decades to come

and than to your point many of the best restaurant companies they have a geographic origin story

Popeyes has the same it brings a lot of its Authority from coming from New Orleans and the Cajun cooking

and so the fact that Tim Horton is closely tied with its origin I think is a good thing uh there's some there's a strong point of view there

and the business has a lot of authority in coffee so I think it's a natural uh player in in the global coffee markets

and there's so many exciting markets out there you know there's places like China where you're just starting to see um greater adoption of coffee

India is another one I think those are two that that have us the most excited

as come visit the the coffee beans that are being grown in Canada they're pretty remarkable

sorry you doesn't exist

I had never heard about it so it wasn't new one for me

very Southern Canada

yeah you go you do grow wine now in Canada

exactly

but there are some problems related to Coffee production uh in particular in in deforestation and child labor how are you dealing with these

we're very thoughtful about the sustainability of our coffee

we go back and and verify the sustainability of it and look at things like farming practices and in all the places that we buy from

moving on to um corpor culture do these brands have separate corpor cultures and in which case what what are they like

we have a unified corporate culture across all of the businesses

I think culture comes from the leaders and like and what they exemplify

for me it's less about the the value statements the management systems

I think a lot of it comes from what we do and and that's what I've seen over all of my years in business

I find that if we wear suits and ties you end up seeing it in the restaurants if we wear jeans and t-shirts you'll find that too

and uh if we're kind with people all of a sudden you'll find out over time that people at the restaurants are kinder to the customers

are you kind with people

I try to be

try he is I promise

so I I I am just very conscious of the behaviors that we model as leaders

and I think that tends to find its way through your organization in a faster way than than you think in a more powerful way than systems uh can can drive you

uh you uh employ a huge amount of young people how many people do you employ

so if you look across our system including all the franchises the total employee uh count is probably somewhere north of 500,000 today

so he's a tenth of the Norwegian population how do you think about how to treat these young people in many cases you would be the first meeting with a job right

yeah huge responsibility it's a really important one

and and many of us had some of our first jobs in restaurants

I don't know about you guys I had I had my first job in a uh a fried fish restaurant in in Florida

so many people have their formative experience there

and I think uh young people they want to be proud of what they're selling uh they want to have flexibility uh because they're probably probably trying to work around other things in their lives uh whether that's school or or another job or or family commitments

I think we provide both those things

and I think the really important thing in my mind uh is the environment that we give people to work in

and that's one of the less discussed things about our efforts to to update all of the the bur King us facilities

I think it's really critical if you want to be an employer today a competitive employer to give people a workplace that they're comfortable in and they're proud of

how do you make people proud of working in a Burger King

I want them to have pride in the products and the quality of the products that they're serving

I want them to feel proud of the facility where they work at uh where that's a a NIC looking facility that people uh feel good about

and I think the other important thing is like the kindness and the relationship with the people who are running the restaurants

and a lot of that comes from the restaurant general manager

you you always find when you walk into a restaurant and you have an amazing restaurant general manager the restaurant just magically works better

you can tell people are happy uh the environment and the kitchen's better the interactions with the customers are different

and so I think that example that the restaurant general manager set for young employees is really powerful

and a lot of that comes from our franchisees

so how do you find these people how do you interview for that type of soft skills

I think that's one of the discussions that we've had a lot uh recently is what's the right profile of franchisee

and I I feel very strongly that the smaller franchisees who are who are involved in their communities uh who are in the restaurants every day they're the ones who tend to be the most successful because they care a lot about their people and and people feel that

and I think that's probably the most profound thing that impacts the environment in a restaurant

but I'll tell you n the to me in the restaurants the answer is always and frankly even in corporate level um you hire attitude you teach skills

and so if somebody comes in and they want to work in your restaurant and they walk in and they look presentable they show up on time for the interview they're looking you in the eye when they're speaking to you and they're shaking your hand and they're saying thank you for this opportunity perfect

you're done I'm going to hire that person

and you know a mistake that I've seen franchisees make particularly when they're hiring managers restaurant managers um is they'll look at the experience of that restaurant manager and the number of years they've been doing it and they get very focused on that

and if that is not a kind person who is going to treat the people well who work in that restaurant I don't care what level of success they've had running restaurants before um

I want the person who's going to come in and set a tone for that restaurant and for all of the young people who are working for them

because for the vast majority of the people working in the restaurant it is their first job

they're going to remember that experience most of them are going to wind up getting promoted at some point to customer

they're going to go on and they're going to do something else and their brand impression is going to be 100% built by The Experience they had when they worked in a Burger King or a popey or a Tim Hortons or a firehouse

I I think it's interesting you know we live in a world where there's more Ai and more machines more these kind of things but what strike me more and more you get into a restaurant what makes you come back is just the the I mean it's the attention it's the absolutely it's the person seeing you it's uh you know it's that connectivity

that's the franchise right

I mean it's ultimately the tone that the franchis because we as you know with over half a million people working in our restaurants around the world we can't be enforcing that

it's got to be something that is naturally set um by the franchisee that we have an expectation the people we hire are going to be kind to our customers

and that's something you can't instill in somebody if they walk in

you know I always tell people that the interview you have with that person is the best they're ever going to be

so if they are not kind to you when they walk in if they're not polite to the people behind the counter when they're asking for the manager you know who's going to interview them I mean look at all of those signs

if they show up and they're not looking kind of neat and smart and well-groomed that's the best they're ever going to be because the day they're asking for a job

and so if you hire those people who have a great attitude and it's natural for them that's going to set the tone for every every body in the restaurant

in the burger business what's the people turn over there for instance

so I think the key is the restaurant general manager

I think that's a it's almost like it's in any business right what keeps people or causes people to leave is usually the manager

like in old jobs I mean supposedly you quit you quit bosses not companies

7 70% of the cases you equit the boss above you

so how does it range so you got a good shop and a bad shop what's the difference in turnover between retention

huge um

yeah it varies a little bit by country but you might have up to 200% turnover in the team members in a like in a US restaurant and a restaurant that has a lot of turnover

and in a better one you could be sub 100

you keep them from between six months and one year on average

i''s say it's six months and two years

moving on to leadership how do the two of you work together

really well

well that's the way it looks I think you you you are I mean you both uh clearly very young and so on but you are clearly a Patrick you are clearly a bit less young how old are you

I'm 60

you're 60 and you are are 37 okay but on average we're very averagely aged for for leaders in a restaurant if you take the average

opportunity what are what are the um what are the advantages of having uh somebody like Patrick to to draw on and learn from

there's so many um

you know I just think in anything you're doing I'm sure it's the case for you and your business the the ability to talk to somebody and have some a sounding board somebody you can talk through some of the hardest problems that you have who's in it with you who understands the people the context the issues who's lived it before that is invaluable

and so what's the most difficult thing he has helped you with

a lot of things you know

I think he he's taught me lessons about the importance of franchisee Prof profitability and their success it's been one of the biggest things that we focused on over the last year and it's been really profound in terms of bringing everybody together and moving the franchisees forward

uh he's taught me a lot about about being a better Communicator uh

it's something that I've had to work on a lot I've learned a a lot from Patrick on that front

and I think the ability to be relentlessly positive and motivating to people while still dealing with some of the hard issues

what has he taught you about communication

just the importance of it um

that you really need to get out there this is a you know to the point you made earlier uh there are so many stakeholders in this business you need to be out there you got to talk to people you need to be really transparent

and that's something that we've evolved on a lot um over the past year and a half whether it's with investors with our franchisees with our employee base

um I've learned to become much more comfortable being very open about the good the bad what we're working on uh

and I think that's helped to bring people together more

and how how open are you I mean in a way you are you are the boss right you are the chair right how open can you be can you share the problems all of them

yeah we we do

look Josh's the CEO he is running the business running the company he's doing an amazing job

and it's interesting because you get into this role and executive chair roles very dramatically on what they're doing in in the company

and what I've come to realize after you know we work through together and you know making sure we've got the right team in place we've got the right strategy the right plan for executing it you know it's it's all him now right

I mean Josh is the one that is driving all of that

what I find my job to be I mean you know day-to-day now it's mentoring Josh it's mentoring the five business unit uh presidents um

but broadly I think the thing that I now bring and it's it's because I'm I'm I'm a little longer in years than uh than Josh um is speed

he's right 99.5% of the time he's a brilliant leader he is he he knows the right answer

it's just that he's too slow

and well it's not that he's too slow but but the you know when you are when you are earlier in your career you're still going to be working through the analytics on these things and saying okay my hypothesis is this let's test that let's look at the analytics

and with more years of of doing this often I think my job is is simply to say Josh you're right just go you're 100% right

do think do you think it's the Harvard Education which is slowing him down

no no too much anal I guarantee you he was one of the one of the best students that ever went through there

he's an extraordinarily bright

but so this is so you are more you are more analytical you are more intuitive

no you know it's funny because I'm I'm originally way back when a finance guy I'm I'm pretty analytical

it's not that I'm more intuitive at this point it's just that more experience I've just got more experience

so I've seen it before and it's you know and the answer is just go

why is speed so important

it's how you create competitive advantage

and you know at the end of the day I think one of the the most important things that you look at in a franchise or franchisee relationship um that determines the success of both is the relationship and the level of trust that you have between the franchisees and the franchisor

if the trust level is high you move twice as fast

when that's broken it just throws sand in the gears and everything moves slowly

and so when you're trying to change and adapt and improve the business um for your customers for your franchisees um you know what allows you to do that ultimately is that the franchisees look at you and say look he may be wrong but I trust that he is doing that for the right reasons

that's very interesting because I I'm I'm very uh um focused on on speed but I haven't really connected it with trust

yeah do you find that internally in the company as well that the more trust you have the faster things go

absolutely

how do you and how do you drive it

so you know look ultimately it's it's about communic it's about doing what you say you're going to do um it's about being very honest about what the real issues are and taking them on

I have this strong belief that you can walk into any company um even a business that you don't know and you could just grab 10 people and say if there is one thing that we could be better at in this company what is it

and 80 or 90% of the people are going to wind up giving you some variation of the same answer

and so then the question is well then why aren't you doing that

and there's usually the answer is some version of how hard it is or how expensive it's going to be or you know just how high that Hill is that you need to take

and you know so I'll go back to the Domino's example

they you know the answer at Domino's was people didn't think our food was very good

it's like okay that's a problem in a food business let's fix it let's change that

and so you know working with Dave Brandon then at the time who was CEO and we started the work

Russell was the chief marketing officer at the time who there was it actually you know to fix the food um

everybody knew it had to be done

Dave was the CEO at the time so you know Dave was ultimately the person that said we need to do this

I was the president of the US business so I wound up driving that

I hired Russell and the process of fixing the food was underway when he arrived as CMO

but he's the one who oversaw the the advertising that walked out and just said yeah our food's not very good

if he had worked who would have been sacked

me

okay

that's me no question

Cool Patrick you've been um you've been uh you know climbing a few Hills and uh what makes you continue to climb what is it that drives you

these F I think joy in this world comes from doing things that you're good at

and I missed it when I left

you know I left Domino's in 2018 and you know we had great leadership it was time for me to pass the Baton on to the to the next team

and but what is it what is it particularly which is fun

you know it's fun figuring things out seeing success

and at the end of the day What's um most gratifying for me is to see the success um that other people are having because you're helping them to lead the business well

and you know at at the end of the day for me really um what drives me is the success of the franchisees

if the franchisees I mean you know I I mean most of my closest friends from my Domino's years are franchisees

I'm very close to Russell I'm very close to Dave they they both remain very very good friends um

that what you eat when you hang out together as well

no I make from the Domino's years now they've got to eat Burger King and popey

Jo what is your driver what who do you want to show

it's evolved over time you know

when I was younger I think it was what motivates a lot of young people you want to be successful and and see progress

and it's changed a bit and today I think it's much more I would like to be proud over time of what we've done with these Brands uh

I'd like to change how consumers view them in a more positive way

as Patrick said I want to see your franchisees be successful uh they're an incredibly important part of what we do

and I want to see they're entrepreneurs all over the world I want to see them win uh win together with us

and I also want to see our employees do well I want to see them progress and be successful and be successful for their families um

so for me it's moving the brands forward and seeing that success play out for all the people who are involved in the system

and which part of yourself are you trying to improve

so I think uh one thing I'd like to improve is uh using my phone less uh

I think I think it's something that distracts that's just a habit that's not the proper

yeah more philosophically more philosophically um you know I do think I'm trying to grow and learn as a leader

I'm learning a lot of things from from Patrick in in that respect

and you know I'm early in in that and some of it's around Communications some about of his about leadership and and trying to steer a very large organization uh

so it's something I'm contining to work on

how do you relax

pretty much anything to do with the ocean uh

so I love uh spear fishing surfing sailing diving sailing anything with the ocean uh is something that I just I love always have

when did that start

shortly after I was born I think I've

what about you what you

I'm actually the opposite Um

mountains schi yeah

I I I love being in the mountains that is that is my happy place that's what causes my blood pressure to go down and the smile to grow on my face

and you know I like playing golf and there are some other things but I'm happiest in the mountains

do you read

I do

what do you mean

uh you know mostly biography a fair amount of business stuff

I'm I'm reading right now a a biography on uh on Rudolph diesel fascinating man

what he invented the diesel engine is extraordinary

and the story of how he died is one of the great Mysteries um he disappeared right before the start of World War I

and his engine was the most efficient on the planet It ultimately could decide who was going to win World War I

and he was taken off the map um right at the start of of World War I

so Rudolph diesel rudol diesel he needs to get on my reading list it's fascinating

and we got tens of thousands of young people listening to this what what kind of advice would you give them

I I would say work hard when you when you're young I think that I do think that's really important

and I would try to I would make decisions about what you do and who you work with based on the people pick people you like respect and and trust

and more often not than not it's going to work out for you well

you for have done great there what about you what do you what is your advice

so you know for me it's um it's interesting because a lot of people they start their career and they say I want to find something that I'm passionate about

and to my mind um I mean you know when I was 18 years old I didn't think what I was going to be passionate about was was leading restaurants right

and what you find is that the passion builds because it's something you're good at and you know that you can create value

and so I think some people start out and they have the end in mind and I need to find that perfect thing that I'm excited about

and what they don't realize is that you know I think the passion that you have for your job is because you grow more and more confident in your ability to do it well um

and you want to show that and you want to prove it to yourself and you want to prove it to you know your family and your friends that I'm very good at what I do

and I think people get very surprised to find that that you know there are people who are passionate about accounting there are people who are passionate about engineering

I mean all of these different disciplines that aren't maybe at the top of the mind of of an 18yearold or a 20-year-old on how they want to spend their lives um

but they find out that it's extraordinarily rewarding to to do something well

well you guys have done a lot of things really well it's been great to have you on big thanks for taking time

thanks for having us

thank you