Host: It was billed as Canada's most significant trade mission to Mexico ever. Last month, 370 Canadian delegates and more than 200 businesses visited the country, led by Canada-U.S. Trade Minister Dominic LeBlanc. As Canada looks to double its non-U.S. exports over the next decade, we intend to deepen our economic and people to people ties with Mexico. The message was clear: diversify, strengthen ties, build something bigger. But then, days later, one of Mexico's most powerful cartel leaders, known as El Mencho, was killed during a military operation. In response, gang members set fire to businesses and vehicles, blocked roads, flights were suspended, and people were trapped in their homes. So how stable is Mexico right now? As Canada is looking to deepen trade ties? And do we have a role to play in combating cartel violence? This is The Rundown. Drug cartels have shaped life in Mexico for decades, and with a crackdown there, experts say the cartels may beef up their operations in Canada. We look at how these criminal organizations built their power and how Canada could help counter them. Luis Horacio Najera is an independent journalist and crime analyst and he joins us in studio. How are you doing, sir?

Luis Horacio Najera: Good. Thank you. All right. Let's get a clear picture of the cartels. Reach. This map shows the spread of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel, better known as CJNG across Mexico. Yellow marks, areas where they have a presence, while red highlights regions where their influence is much stronger. As we can see, most of central Mexico is shaded in red with additional pockets of activity in several northern and southern states. Luis. Their footprint is extensive. Just looking at this map here, what separates CJNG from other cartels?

Luis Horacio Najera: Okay, based on what I've seen, I can tell you the best way to describe this particular group and its leader. Now, this is disruptors. They disrupted the ecosystem of organized crime in Mexico. How? First, you can see they have a strong presence by doing alliances, by taking over. And one of the particular characteristics of this group is insane violence, extreme and insane violence. That's one key element. The second one is they diversify activities or sources of revenue. They are producing fentanyl, but they are also extortion. They are also doing charging. They have people embedded in the government. For instance, a few months ago, the mayor of the tequila town where the tequila is produced, he was arrested because he was it was known that he acted as an accountant for the group while being the mayor.

Host: Okay, so conflicts there.

Luis Horacio Najera: Exactly. So they embedded into the government the other characteristic very notable is they mastered the use of social media.

Host: Okay.

Luis Horacio Najera: You know, those gruesome videos, but they also mastered social media in order to influence certain narratives. Of course, taking advantage of violence and the government. So the whole ecosystem. So I would say that that those are characteristics that in my analysis, I can describe this group as disruptors.

Host: How did cartels in general become so prolific in Mexico?

Luis Horacio Najera: First of all, the location Mexico is a strategic place because in the 80s, when the US shut down the route from Colombia to the US using the Caribbean, Pablo Escobar and all these old guys from the from the 80s, then the Colombians said, okay, we need another route. Oh, there's Mexico there, and they have a huge border. So that that's, that's and of course, there was already drug lords here. Right?

Host: Okay.

Luis Horacio Najera: The other thing is weak institutions. The government is weak and it's even weaker now. And as I mentioned, the Jalisco Nueva Generacion group mastered the the way to get embedded into the government. In my analysis, I consider since 2018, Mexico is under the co-governance between organized crime and the government. And this co-governance is consensual, which means they agree to do that.

Host: I want to shift focus from Mexico to Canada now. Yes. Late last year, the RCMP named the CJNG just one of seven cartels here in Canada. Give us an example of the kinds of activities they're involved in here that I think a lot of people are probably surprised. Would be surprised to hear that cartels are operating here in Canada.

Luis Horacio Najera: They have been here for a while, a while. We documented that in our book with Peter Edwards. They smuggled drugs into the country. Now they have also it is known that they have some kind of. Exporting the know how of drugs in the way we saw in Vancouver this mega lab for fentanyl. It has a significant component of way of doing things in the Mexican way. So transferring knowledge, you can say so. And also they have they use Canada. Canada is extremely important in two ways for organised crime. One is the location because from Vancouver to China is super close, from Newfoundland to Europe is really close. But also it's the money laundering cleaning funds because unfortunately the system here in Canada is not used to deal with these kind of people and they are taking advantage of of that real estate land and all these things.

Host: All right. I want to bring up the map again on February 22nd, President Sheinbaum ordered a mission to capture Nemesio Oseguera Cervantes, or El Mencho in Tapalpa, which led to his death. For our viewers want to look sort of just on the west side of Mexico City. As a response, we saw images of Puerto Vallarta, a popular tourist destination for Canadians, with just northwest of Tapalpa erupting in violence, cars burning. There's speculation that the death of a cartel leader could mean more activity in Canada. And I am curious, Luis, does Canada have a responsibility to address cartel operations in Mexico, or does this rest with the Mexican president?

Luis Horacio Najera: The responsibility comes from being a trade partner as a very strategic trade partner, but also Mexico is the it's a place for a bunch of Canadians go there. They have property there, they live there. So somehow there's this big connection. There's also the migrant workers from Mexico coming into Canada, so that that's the human factor. But I think as a as a regional partner, Canada has also a responsibility to help Mexico. Prime Minister Carney recently announced a new plan and a big investment in security training. That's good. But I think the the missing part here is the political part, which means maybe a closed doors. You don't have to do it in public, but it will be good if the Canadian government sits with the Mexican government and says, you know what, you need to do something because this is getting out of hand and it's affecting me. So what the fact that you are dismantling the judicial courts, that you are getting rid of transparency, you are not helping journalists, you are not protecting your journalists, and you are ignoring the mothers of people who disappeared. So those kinds of things are important. And I think that that's a significant element that the Canadian government can do, hopefully, to kind of remove the conscience in the political system in Mexico.

Host: There's something that we will have to watch. Luis, I really appreciate your time and your insights. Thank you so much.

Luis Horacio Najera: Thank you.

Host: El Mencho killing was seen as a major win for Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum, but retaliation plunged parts of the country into chaos. This all happened right after Canada sent its largest ever trade delegation to the country. So what could the uncertain security situation there mean for our trade relationship? Laura McDonald is a professor in the Department of Political Science and the Institute of Political Economy at Carleton University. Solange Marquez Espinoza is a geopolitical analyst and instructor at the University of Toronto. Great to have you both on the show. How are you both doing?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Doing well. Thanks.

Laura McDonald: Very well. Thank you.

Host: All right, Solange, I want to start with you. In mid-February, Minister LeBlanc led a trade mission to Mexico. Help us understand, how significant was that in Canada? Mexico? Trade relations.

Solange Marquez Espinoza: It is very, very important. It was the largest bilateral mission in decades. We had over 370 delegates, more than 240 organizations. So it was huge. It was focused. And that is also a very, very interesting shift. It was focused on sectors like manufacturing but also agriculture, agrotech, clean energy and technology. So I think it was very important for Mexico, Canada relationship because it shifted the relation from mining. That is usually what we see more often to other sectors that are important, that are important for both countries, and where we can find some new opportunities.

Host: Laura, what signal did this trade mission send to Mexico?

Laura McDonald: I think it was sending a signal that perhaps finally, Canada is taking Mexico seriously, both as a trade partner but also as an important ally, a strategic partner in North America. I think there's a sense that Canada has historically taken Mexico for granted or some, you know, there were very negative signals being sent by a couple of Canadian Premier Doug Ford and Danielle Smith in Alberta, saying that we would just throw Mexico on the bus, under the bus if we could get a better deal with the US without them. So this is sending a message that finally, Canada needs to recognize its need to take Mexico seriously as as a really important partner in North America.

Host: Solange. Two days after the mission ended, President Sheinbaum ordered an operation against one of Mexico's most powerful cartels, killing its leader, El El Mencho. What do you make of that move?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think first of all, it is something that is shifting from the usual we have seen in Mexico this hoax and no bullets approach that we had during President Lopez Obrador and after with President Sheinbaum. She has been shifting from this since the beginning of her of her tenure. But what I see it is clearly an indication of the relationship also with the United States. So this this violence started very let me say, frame it like this. It was very mediatic. It was huge. But it is important to understand that there are two different violence here. The first one and that that day is the violence demonstration of the cartel. They was they were trying to to show some force because it was against the state, because the state had their leader, and after that their leader was killed. But the the second phase of this is a different kind of violence, the violence that we are seeing after two weeks. It is a violence that it is much more like between the cartels. It is showing the fragmented, maybe the fragmentation of the cartel because they are fighting for the internal control of the cartel. So it is different and it is it affects differently the relationship between Mexico and Canada.

Host: Laura, I'll get your take. What do you make of the violence just two days after that trade mission?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think it was unconnected, but I think it will be somewhat of a concern, a continuing concern for Canadian businesses, Canadian tourists. When they think about Mexico, they might be thinking more about this violence than the very successful trade mission, which is unfortunate. I agree with Solange that there are all kinds of reasons for concern about the decision to go in that way and, as they say, decapitate or take out the the leader of of a very powerful cartel. Because in the past, what we've seen is that when that's happened, it has led to an escalation of violence as rival factions fight for control. We don't know what is happening here. I think the Mexican government had a lot of strong intelligence on their side about that. Might be it might be a good time to do this. And Shame has shown her willingness to go in a more forceful way against the cartels. I think moving on, what we'd like to see is more efforts to crack down on corruption in Mexico. There are long standing ties between the cartels and political leaders, especially at the local and state levels. And Shane Balm is showing more willingness to crack down on that than her predecessor. So that's a positive sign. But it is a worrying situation, and it could lead to years of violence.

Host: Solange, I'll get you to follow up upon sort of what Laura had said. You know, the existence of cartels is not new to Canadian governments or to the private businesses, but what are the implications of Canada encouraging more trade when there are potentially significant risks in Mexico?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, it is not new. This this violence, unfortunately, of course, but it is not new. There is a of course, it affects Canadian businesses in Mexico especially. We have been seeing the reality in, in, in, in the mining sector affecting them with extortion. In one specific case, we saw what happened with some of the people working on on a Canadian mining. However, I think this is this is not noted. As Laura said, it is what happened, even though it was two days after the mission was in Mexico. I think it is a mother to understand that the violence is there, but it is not against specific targets, foreign specific targets. So yeah, Mexico needs to work much more into their internal security strategy. I think that in that way, Canada can help a lot. And part of what is announced and what they are working with the Canadian government is also related with security, which is very, very good. It is something very, very positive in the relationship. So what I think for the Canadian businesses or investments, it is it is secure to invest in Mexico. There are places that are of course much more on risk because they are cartel territories. But there are other places that that are like of course, Mexico and Mexican cities. This kind of violence that the one that we saw are because of a specific event. And I am not quite sure that the Mexican government is going to risk to do something similar in the near term.

Host: Laura, I want to get your take. What can what can Canada do?

Laura McDonald: I think one thing would be to shift our focus away from mining. We are the major foreign investor in Mexico, in the mining sector, which is probably the most problematic area because these mines are operating in the most dangerous parts of the country. In many cases, some of them are in much safer areas, and there's not a problem. But when they move into these highly conflictual territories, there's a lot of concern about the implications for the safety of investors and the workers in the, in the property and and the surrounding community. And beyond that, concerns around indigenous rights and environmental impacts. So I was also very encouraged that a lot of the focus of this mission was on other sectors green tech, high tech sectors. I think in terms of security cooperation, we should also be looking more at tracing the financial flows of the cartels, both to the United States and to Canada. There have been cases where Canadian banks have found cases where employees were accepting money from cartel operations as part of laundering, money laundering operations. And I think a huge amount more could be done in that respect. We can also provide more support to human rights organizations operating in Mexico. And I would add, labor rights organizations. We were providing some significant funding to Mexican independent labour groups who are combating widespread corruption among their own official unions, and that funding has now ended. So we want to be seen as a country that is operating in a way that benefits Mexican workers as well as shareholders in Canadian companies and is and tries to avoid the common tendency to just go to Mexico because labour prices are cheap. There's so much more opportunity in Mexico as a market for Canadian goods, and also as a site with highly qualified personnel.

Host: All right, I want to get to the US folded into our conversation here. So Solange, President Sheinbaum is under pressure from the US to address cartels, some of which have been deemed terrorist organizations by the US and by Canada. She's also trying to address political corruption. So there's a long list of things here. And I'm curious, how does the president of Mexico walk that line with Trump, as she's also trying to manage this relationship here with Canada?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, it has been complicated for Mexico. Of course, the pressure coming from the United States, particularly with President Trump, has been hard. I think the strategy, I'm not quite sure yet that it is a strategy, but how Mexico has been responding is, most of the times, pragmatically agreeing on almost everything that the Donald Trump and Washington have been asking. For example, in the case of security and the border and migration, Mexico deployed 10,000 National Guard to the to the border because Washington asked for that. We have been accepting US deportees from third countries, not Mexicans, because we are accepting that migration is a big issue and we don't want more tariffs. We prepare border cities. We have extraditing cartel leaders since since this this year started, we extradited 29 cartel leaders in February. And now what we saw with El Mencho is mostly related with that. So Mexico has been trying to appease Donald Trump in order to avoid the tariffs. How this play into the Mexico-Canada relationship? Well, we are exactly in the same complicated position. We are part of a trilateral agreement. We want to maintain that agreement, but we need to find a way to relate with our neighbour, our common neighbour, in an intelligent and in a wise way in order to avoid that. But in order to continue our trade relationship, the only thing that I, I see will allow us to do that is to continue our trilateral agreement, but strengthening our bilateral relationship.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: Laura, I want to get your take. What can Canada do?

Laura McDonald: I think one thing would be to shift our focus away from mining. We are the major foreign investor in Mexico, in the mining sector, which is probably the most problematic area because these mines are operating in the most dangerous parts of the country. In many cases, some of them are in much safer areas, and there's not a problem. But when they move into these highly conflictual territories, there's a lot of concern about the implications for the safety of investors and the workers in the, in the property and and the surrounding community. And beyond that, concerns around indigenous rights and environmental impacts. So I was also very encouraged that a lot of the focus of this mission was on other sectors green tech, high tech sectors. I think in terms of security cooperation, we should also be looking more at tracing the financial flows of the cartels, both to the United States and to Canada. There have been cases where Canadian banks have found cases where employees were accepting money from cartel operations as part of laundering, money laundering operations. And I think a huge amount more could be done in that respect. We can also provide more support to human rights organizations operating in Mexico. And I would add, labor rights organizations. We were providing some significant funding to Mexican independent labour groups who are combating widespread corruption among their own official unions, and that funding has now ended. So we want to be seen as a country that is operating in a way that benefits Mexican workers as well as shareholders in Canadian companies and is and tries to avoid the common tendency to just go to Mexico because labour prices are cheap. There's so much more opportunity in Mexico as a market for Canadian goods, and also as a site with highly qualified personnel.

Host: All right, I want to get to the US folded into our conversation here. So Solange, President Sheinbaum is under pressure from the US to address cartels, some of which have been deemed terrorist organizations by the US and by Canada. She's also trying to address political corruption. So there's a long list of things here. And I'm curious, how does the president of Mexico walk that line with Trump, as she's also trying to manage this relationship here with Canada?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, it has been complicated for Mexico. Of course, the pressure coming from the United States, particularly with President Trump, has been hard. I think the strategy, I'm not quite sure yet that it is a strategy, but how Mexico has been responding is, most of the times, pragmatically agreeing on almost everything that the Donald Trump and Washington have been asking. For example, in the case of security and the border and migration, Mexico deployed 10,000 National Guard to the to the border because Washington asked for that. We have been accepting US deportees from third countries, not Mexicans, because we are accepting that migration is a big issue and we don't want more tariffs. We prepare border cities. We have extraditing cartel leaders since since this this year started, we extradited 29 cartel leaders in February. And now what we saw with El Mencho is mostly related with that. So Mexico has been trying to appease Donald Trump in order to avoid the tariffs. How this play into the Mexico-Canada relationship? Well, we are exactly in the same complicated position. We are part of a trilateral agreement. We want to maintain that agreement, but we need to find a way to relate with our neighbour, our common neighbour, in an intelligent and in a wise way in order to avoid that. But in order to continue our trade relationship, the only thing that I, I see will allow us to do that is to continue our trilateral agreement, but strengthening our bilateral relationship.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Host: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Host: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Jeyan: Solange, I'll get you to follow up upon sort of what Laura had said. You know, the existence of cartels is not new to Canadian governments or to the private businesses, but what are the implications of Canada encouraging more trade when there are potentially significant risks in Mexico?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, it is not new. This this violence, unfortunately, of course, but it is not new. There is a of course, it affects Canadian businesses in Mexico especially. We have been seeing the reality in, in, in, in the mining sector affecting them with extortion. In one specific case, we saw what happened with some of the people working on on a Canadian mining. However, I think this is this is not noted. As Laura said, it is what happened, even though it was two days after the mission was in Mexico. I think it is a mother to understand that the violence is there, but it is not against specific targets, foreign specific targets. So yeah, Mexico needs to work much more into their internal security strategy. I think that in that way, Canada can help a lot. And part of what is announced and what they are working with the Canadian government is also related with security, which is very, very good. It is something very, very positive in the relationship. So what I think for the Canadian businesses or investments, it is it is secure to invest in Mexico. There are places that are of course much more on risk because they are cartel territories. But there are other places that that are like of course, Mexico and Mexican cities. This kind of violence that the one that we saw are because of a specific event. And I am not quite sure that the Mexican government is going to risk to do something similar in the near term.

Jeyan: Laura, I want to get your take. What can what can Canada do?

Laura McDonald: I think one thing would be to shift our focus away from mining. We are the major foreign investor in Mexico, in the mining sector, which is probably the most problematic area because these mines are operating in the most dangerous parts of the country. In many cases, some of them are in much safer areas, and there's not a problem. But when they move into these highly conflictual territories, there's a lot of concern about the implications for the safety of investors and the workers in the, in the property and and the surrounding community. And beyond that, concerns around indigenous rights and environmental impacts. So I was also very encouraged that a lot of the focus of this mission was on other sectors green tech, high tech sectors. I think in terms of security cooperation, we should also be looking more at tracing the financial flows of the cartels, both to the United States and to Canada. There have been cases where Canadian banks have found cases where employees were accepting money from cartel operations as part of laundering, money laundering operations. And I think a huge amount more could be done in that respect. We can also provide more support to human rights organizations operating in Mexico. And I would add, labor rights organizations. We were providing some significant funding to Mexican independent labour groups who are combating widespread corruption among their own official unions, and that funding has now ended. So we want to be seen as a country that is operating in a way that benefits Mexican workers as well as shareholders in Canadian companies and is and tries to avoid the common tendency to just go to Mexico because labour prices are cheap. There's so much more opportunity in Mexico as a market for Canadian goods, and also as a site with highly qualified personnel.

Host: All right, I want to get to the US folded into our conversation here. So Solange, President Sheinbaum is under pressure from the US to address cartels, some of which have been deemed terrorist organizations by the US and by Canada. She's also trying to address political corruption. So there's a long list of things here. And I'm curious, how does the president of Mexico walk that line with Trump, as she's also trying to manage this relationship here with Canada?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, it has been complicated for Mexico. Of course, the pressure coming from the United States, particularly with President Trump, has been hard. I think the strategy, I'm not quite sure yet that it is a strategy, but how Mexico has been responding is, most of the times, pragmatically agreeing on almost everything that the Donald Trump and Washington have been asking. For example, in the case of security and the border and migration, Mexico deployed 10,000 National Guard to the to the border because Washington asked for that. We have been accepting US deportees from third countries, not Mexicans, because we are accepting that migration is a big issue and we don't want more tariffs. We prepare border cities. We have extraditing cartel leaders since since this this year started, we extradited 29 cartel leaders in February. And now what we saw with El Mencho is mostly related with that. So Mexico has been trying to appease Donald Trump in order to avoid the tariffs. How this play into the Mexico-Canada relationship? Well, we are exactly in the same complicated position. We are part of a trilateral agreement. We want to maintain that agreement, but we need to find a way to relate with our neighbour, our common neighbour, in an intelligent and in a wise way in order to avoid that. But in order to continue our trade relationship, the only thing that I, I see will allow us to do that is to continue our trilateral agreement, but strengthening our bilateral relationship.

Jeyan: Laura, I want to get your take. What can what can Canada do?

Laura McDonald: I think one thing would be to shift our focus away from mining. We are the major foreign investor in Mexico, in the mining sector, which is probably the most problematic area because these mines are operating in the most dangerous parts of the country. In many cases, some of them are in much safer areas, and there's not a problem. But when they move into these highly conflictual territories, there's a lot of concern about the implications for the safety of investors and the workers in the, in the property and and the surrounding community. And beyond that, concerns around indigenous rights and environmental impacts. So I was also very encouraged that a lot of the focus of this mission was on other sectors green tech, high tech sectors. I think in terms of security cooperation, we should also be looking more at tracing the financial flows of the cartels, both to the United States and to Canada. There have been cases where Canadian banks have found cases where employees were accepting money from cartel operations as part of laundering, money laundering operations. And I think a huge amount more could be done in that respect. We can also provide more support to human rights organizations operating in Mexico. And I would add, labor rights organizations. We were providing some significant funding to Mexican independent labour groups who are combating widespread corruption among their own official unions, and that funding has now ended. So we want to be seen as a country that is operating in a way that benefits Mexican workers as well as shareholders in Canadian companies and is and tries to avoid the common tendency to just go to Mexico because labour prices are cheap. There's so much more opportunity in Mexico as a market for Canadian goods, and also as a site with highly qualified personnel.

Jeyan: Solange, I'll get you to follow up upon sort of what Laura had said. You know, the existence of cartels is not new to Canadian governments or to the private businesses, but what are the implications of Canada encouraging more trade when there are potentially significant risks in Mexico?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, it is not new. This this violence, unfortunately, of course, but it is not new. There is a of course, it affects Canadian businesses in Mexico especially. We have been seeing the reality in, in, in, in the mining sector affecting them with extortion. In one specific case, we saw what happened with some of the people working on on a Canadian mining. However, I think this is this is not noted. As Laura said, it is what happened, even though it was two days after the mission was in Mexico. I think it is a mother to understand that the violence is there, but it is not against specific targets, foreign specific targets. So yeah, Mexico needs to work much more into their internal security strategy. I think that in that way, Canada can help a lot. And part of what is announced and what they are working with the Canadian government is also related with security, which is very, very good. It is something very, very positive in the relationship. So what I think for the Canadian businesses or investments, it is it is secure to invest in Mexico. There are places that are of course much more on risk because they are cartel territories. But there are other places that that are like of course, Mexico and Mexican cities. This kind of violence that the one that we saw are because of a specific event. And I am not quite sure that the Mexican government is going to risk to do something similar in the near term.

Jeyan: Laura, I want to get your take. What can what can Canada do?

Laura McDonald: I think one thing would be to shift our focus away from mining. We are the major foreign investor in Mexico, in the mining sector, which is probably the most problematic area because these mines are operating in the most dangerous parts of the country. In many cases, some of them are in much safer areas, and there's not a problem. But when they move into these highly conflictual territories, there's a lot of concern about the implications for the safety of investors and the workers in the, in the property and and the surrounding community. And beyond that, concerns around indigenous rights and environmental impacts. So I was also very encouraged that a lot of the focus of this mission was on other sectors green tech, high tech sectors. I think in terms of security cooperation, we should also be looking more at tracing the financial flows of the cartels, both to the United States and to Canada. There have been cases where Canadian banks have found cases where employees were accepting money from cartel operations as part of laundering, money laundering operations. And I think a huge amount more could be done in that respect. We can also provide more support to human rights organizations operating in Mexico. And I would add, labor rights organizations. We were providing some significant funding to Mexican independent labour groups who are combating widespread corruption among their own official unions, and that funding has now ended. So we want to be seen as a country that is operating in a way that benefits Mexican workers as well as shareholders in Canadian companies and is and tries to avoid the common tendency to just go to Mexico because labour prices are cheap. There's so much more opportunity in Mexico as a market for Canadian goods, and also as a site with highly qualified personnel.

Jeyan: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Jeyan: Solange, I'll get you to follow up upon sort of what Laura had said. You know, the existence of cartels is not new to Canadian governments or to the private businesses, but what are the implications of Canada encouraging more trade when there are potentially significant risks in Mexico?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, it is not new. This this violence, unfortunately, of course, but it is not new. There is a of course, it affects Canadian businesses in Mexico especially. We have been seeing the reality in, in, in, in the mining sector affecting them with extortion. In one specific case, we saw what happened with some of the people working on on a Canadian mining. However, I think this is this is not noted. As Laura said, it is what happened, even though it was two days after the mission was in Mexico. I think it is a mother to understand that the violence is there, but it is not against specific targets, foreign specific targets. So yeah, Mexico needs to work much more into their internal security strategy. I think that in that way, Canada can help a lot. And part of what is announced and what they are working with the Canadian government is also related with security, which is very, very good. It is something very, very positive in the relationship. So what I think for the Canadian businesses or investments, it is it is secure to invest in Mexico. There are places that are of course much more on risk because they are cartel territories. But there are other places that that are like of course, Mexico and Mexican cities. This kind of violence that the one that we saw are because of a specific event. And I am not quite sure that the Mexican government is going to risk to do something similar in the near term.

Jeyan: Laura, I want to get your take. What can what can Canada do?

Laura McDonald: I think one thing would be to shift our focus away from mining. We are the major foreign investor in Mexico, in the mining sector, which is probably the most problematic area because these mines are operating in the most dangerous parts of the country. In many cases, some of them are in much safer areas, and there's not a problem. But when they move into these highly conflictual territories, there's a lot of concern about the implications for the safety of investors and the workers in the, in the property and and the surrounding community. And beyond that, concerns around indigenous rights and environmental impacts. So I was also very encouraged that a lot of the focus of this mission was on other sectors green tech, high tech sectors. I think in terms of security cooperation, we should also be looking more at tracing the financial flows of the cartels, both to the United States and to Canada. There have been cases where Canadian banks have found cases where employees were accepting money from cartel operations as part of laundering, money laundering operations. And I think a huge amount more could be done in that respect. We can also provide more support to human rights organizations operating in Mexico. And I would add, labor rights organizations. We were providing some significant funding to Mexican independent labour groups who are combating widespread corruption among their own official unions, and that funding has now ended. So we want to be seen as a country that is operating in a way that benefits Mexican workers as well as shareholders in Canadian companies and is and tries to avoid the common tendency to just go to Mexico because labour prices are cheap. There's so much more opportunity in Mexico as a market for Canadian goods, and also as a site with highly qualified personnel.

Jeyan: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Jeyan: Well, speaking of that, as we know, the review process for the Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement must be completed by July 1st. So Solange, in case that review doesn't go as hoped or planned, what should be taken into consideration so that Canada and Mexico can forge a new relationship?

Solange Marquez Espinoza: Well, I think we are in the correct path. Following Canada's strategy of diversifying markets. I think Mexico entering into that strategy not only because of USMCA, but also because Canada needs to to diversify their markets. So I think what happened in July, let's consider that even though the United States do not want to continue with the with the trade, the trade will continue for ten more years with annual revisions. So there is not an instant end of the USMCA. We will continue with the trilateral relation, of course, with all the challenges, that kind of scenario. But but I think it isn't going to be not that complicated. As if an abrupt end will will be in the case of Mexico and Canada, I think there are different strategies that we can try to work together. Specifically. I see, of course, as I said before, the security. I think it is a very interesting and a very important. There are a lot of possibilities in the relationship on security issues, but also there are others that will allow the ideologically, Mexico and Canada's governments can work together. That is environmental issues, trade, growth, growth and trying to to increase the relationship on energy because that this this government in Mexico, usually ideologically was close to that kind of relation. So the mission was a success in that, in that matter, because Mexico show that they can be open to to talk about energy sector, which is very good for the relationship with Canada and for clean sector too. There are opportunities to do business in Mexico that were closed before this. So I think there are many opportunities that we can try and and I think it is it is a it is a there are a lot of opportunities for both countries considering, of course, the challenges that that the security in Mexico endures.

Jeyan: All right. I'll get Laura to add on that when it comes to President Sheinbaum, sort of walking this this fine line between Donald Trump and and Canada's relation here. How does she do it?

Laura McDonald: Well, I think she has enormous. Enormous intelligent capacity to handle the relationship with Donald Trump. I think she's had to fight all her life as a woman leader to make a way for herself in the party and in a sexist society. And so she's developed all these incredible skills of communication and steadiness, calmness that we can only admire. And and so people have kind of seen her as a Trump whisperer, and he hasn't lashed out at her as he has against Canadian leaders. On the other hand, I think we need to recognize that Mexico is in a vulnerable position. It is a poor country and a weaker economy compared to Canada, and so they have many strengths compared to Canada. The United States is going to have to continue to invest in Mexico. They can't forgo entirely the cheap labour force that Mexico has historically provided, whereas Canada is seen as kind of expendable. So we need to find a way to work together strategically to Recognize the long term game of the importance of working together and not allowing Donald Trump to divide and conquer us, which is easy to do, easy for him to do. That's his tendency. The US has said they'd prefer bilateral deals because they're stronger in that context, one on one, rather than in any trilateral situation. So I think the two leaders, Carney and Sheinbaum, really do recognize this now in a way they haven't in the past. And they need to keep their eye on the the long game as we move forward into the CUSMA negotiations.

Jeyan: Thank you for spending some time with us on The Rundown. We want this show to reflect you and what you care about. So what should we cover next? Let us know at TVO.org/rundown or drop us a comment on Youtube. Until then, see you tomorrow. Coming up on The Rundown.

Host: OSAP generally in its free tuition phase, provided about 16 or $17,000. 70% of that was non-repayable. At its height in 2018, the maximum grants were about 6 or $7,000, and now the maximum grants, mostly federal, are in the 3 or $4,000.

Jeyan: That's tomorrow on The Rundown. ♪