枪声消散后的真实代价
Jan Jagenothan: 当枪击事件发生时,我们最先听到的往往是突发新闻:谁受伤了、事发地点在哪里、是否有嫌疑人被捕。但在头条新闻的热度退去之后,真实的生活究竟会发生什么?没有人比 Nikkai Foster 更清楚这一点。2023 年,这位当时 16 岁的少年在多伦多 Jane and Finch 社区打完篮球走在回家路上时,头部不幸中枪——他只是一名无辜的路人,却被卷入了旁人的恩怨之中。枪伤彻底改变了他的人生轨迹,但 Nikai 奇迹般地活了下来。如今,一部全新的原创纪录片 《Nikai Walks》 讲述了他的康复历程与倡导行动。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: When a shooting happens, we hear about the immediate aftermath. Who was hurt? Where it happened, whether anyone was arrested. But what happens after the headlines move on? No one knows better than Nikkai Foster. In 2023, the 16-year-old was heading home from playing basketball in Toronto's Jane and Finch neighborhood when he was shot in the head, an innocent bystander caught in someone else's feud. Now, his injuries were life-altering, but Nikai survived. And now a new TV original documentary, Nikai Walks, tells the story of his recovery and advocacy.
Nikai的母亲: 当时我心里充满了恐惧。而在医院里,当看到他甚至无法独自站立时,那种刻骨铭心的恐惧再次将我吞没。
英文原文
Nikai's Mother: And I was so fearful. And that fear returned to me in the hospital when he could not stand up on his own.
Jan Jagenothan: 我们将倾听他的亲身讲述,深入探讨暴力的深远影响,以及社区如何团结起来阻止悲剧重演。我是 Jan Jagenothan,欢迎收看《The Rundown》。在经历枪支暴力之后,重建生活究竟是怎样一种体验?我们又该如何讲述这样的故事,以及一个社区面对集体创伤的更大叙事?Nikkai Foster、Rico King、Devon Jones,非常高兴你们来到我们的演播室,十分感谢各位的参与。在深入探讨之前,Nikai,非常高兴能邀请到你。三年前,医生曾告诉你可能挺不过来,甚至可能再也无法行走,但今天你坐在了这里。我很想知道,你今天感觉怎么样?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: We hear from him, dig into the far-reaching effects of violence and how communities are coming together to stop it. I'm Jan Jagenothan. Welcome to the rundown. What is it like to rebuild your life after gun violence? And how do you go about telling that story and the larger story of a community dealing with trauma? Nikkai Foster, Rico King, Devon Jones, great to have you in our studios. Thank you so much for joining me. Um, before we get into things, Nikai, it's great to have you here with us. Three years ago, uh, you were told that potentially potentially you may not be here, that you may not walk, but here you are. I want to know how are you doing today?
Nikai Foster: 我现在很好,兄弟。刚开学不久,今天能和 Jones 老师还有 Rico 一起来到这里,我真的感到非常知足,没什么可抱怨的。
英文原文
Nikai Foster: I'm doing good, man. You know, just started school. I'm here with Mr. Jones and Rico. So, yeah, I can't complain.
微笑面对康复艰难历程
Jan Jagenothan: 整部纪录片记录了这样一段康复历程——交织着情绪、痛苦与坚韧。而且在镜头前,你脸上似乎总是挂着微笑。你觉得从当时走到今天的整个过程到底有多艰难?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Uh, throughout the dock, there's sort of this journey um, you know, of rehab and the emotion, the pain, the strength. You seem to always have this smile on your face as well. Um how how how difficult uh would you describe sort of that journey from from then to where you are today?
Nikai Foster: 经历我所承受的一切确实非常艰难。但只要你脸上带着微笑,去战胜生活中的重重磨难就会容易得多。就像你在低着头跑步时,路途总会显得无比艰难;但当你抬起头、带着微笑向前奔跑时,事情就会变得轻松许多。
英文原文
Nikai Foster: You know, it's very difficult to go through what I went through, but when you put a smile on your face, it's easier it's very easy to fight through your battles. You know, when you're running a race with your head down, it's going to be hard to get through it. But if you have your head up and a smile on your face, it's going to be way easier.
Jan Jagenothan: Rico,观看这部纪录片时,我们看到的是一个关于坚韧与痛苦的故事。但片子刚开始不久,观众就会在认识 Nikai 的瞬间被他打动。对于你来说,为什么将这个故事拍成纪录片如此重要?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Rico, uh, watching the documentary, there is there's a story of perseverance, it's a story of pain. Uh, but it's pretty obvious shortly into the doc when you meet Nikai, uh, how quickly we fall in love with him. Why was it important for you to tell this story in a documentary format?
Rico King: 这很重要,因为这个故事非常独特。Nikkai 愿意让我记录他的经历,而这本身就是一个奇迹——他挺过了一场在许多人看来几乎不可能生还的灾难。他不仅活了下来,还展现出了如此惊人的精神面貌。我们不仅要捕捉他的身体康复过程,更要记录下他的心路历程,这对我来说意义非凡。
英文原文
Rico King: It was important because it was very unique, you know what I mean? Um and um Nikkai, you know, gave me access to his story, which um it was a miracle, right? Like he survived something that most we thought he wasn't going to survive, but not only surviving, but in good spirits. So to capture the psychological and physical journey was very important to me.
用镜头记录真实的社区纽带
Jan Jagenothan: 你最早是在什么时候听到关于 Nikai 的故事原委的?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: When did you um hear about sort of the the origins of the story about Nikai?
Rico King: 关于 Nikai?我和 Devon 当时去医院探望他。人们总是问我,你是怎么获得拍摄这些故事的信任和许可的?但事实是,我们本身就是这个社区的一分子,我们就在这里生活。所以当 Devon 告诉我 Nikai 出事了,我们必须去医院看他。当我们走到病床前时,Nikai 看着我们,直接说了一句:“一定要用 4K 拍!”
英文原文
Rico King: About Nikai? Uh we heard it u me and Devon were visiting him at the hospital like um people always ask me how do I get access to these stories and stuff like that but we're like people in the community, you know what I mean? So Devon said, yo, Nikai got shot, we got to go to the hospital. And we were there by his bedside and Nikai was like, you know, make sure it's in 4k.
Nikai Foster: 必须得是 4K,绝对不能是 1080p。
英文原文
Nikai Foster: In 4K for sure, not 1080 is...
Rico King: 我们从不拍 1080p。
英文原文
Rico King: We don't do 1080.
Jan Jagenothan: 这个经历揭示了社区在帮助年轻人康复过程中扮演了怎样的角色?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: What what did it reveal about sort of the role of community uh and and what it plays in helping youth rehab?
Rico King: 我的意思是,我们唯有彼此依靠,我一直都是这么说的。我们比任何人都更理解问题所在,因为我们每天都在经历它。很多时候人们谈论社区时带有一种隔阂感,但对我们来说,这是切身相关的现实。我们有责任不仅去记录它,还要提供帮助,并创造一个能让人们看到全貌的平台,而不是只有冰冷的新闻标题。
英文原文
Rico King: I mean like we're all we got that's how I always say it you know um we understand the problem more because we live it, you know what I mean? A lot of people talk about it detached from it, but for us, we live it. So we feel like it's a responsibility for us to not only document it, but help, you know, and provide a platform where people can see the full picture, not just the news headline.
草根力量与长期陪伴
Jan Jagenothan: Devon,你基本上将自己的整个人生都奉献给了帮助少数族裔青年、引导他们远离暴力以及建立社区支持体系的事业。你一开始是怎么认识 Nikai 的?又是如何与 Rico 结识并促成这部纪录片的?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Devon uh you've dedicated uh essentially your life to helping racialized youth um steering them away from violence, building community. How did you first get connected with Nikai, and then uh connecting with Rico to sort of make this come together?
Devon Jones: 我很早就认识 Nikai 了。而认识 Rico 大概是在这之前的几个月。我们当时一直在酝酿一个想法,因为我们已经目睹过太多的悲剧发生。Rico 是一位杰出的电影人,他曾在多伦多和巴尔的摩等不同地方工作过。
英文原文
Devon Jones: Well, Nikai I knew uh Rico I met Rico um maybe a few months before actually. Um, we had an idea of wanting to tell these stories in different iterations because we've seen this play out over and over and over. And Rico is a phenomenal filmmaker who comes with a portfolio of having done work across Toronto and in Baltimore,
Jan Jagenothan: 在巴尔的摩。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: And in Baltimore,
Devon Jones: 所以我们当时立刻认定,他就是帮助我们讲述这个故事的最佳人选。
英文原文
Devon Jones: Um the immediate assumption was that he's the guy to help us tell the story.
Jan Jagenothan: Nikai 总是尊称你为“Jones 老师”。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Uh Nikki says sort of that Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Devon Jones: 是的,先生。
英文原文
Devon Jones: Yes, sir.
Jan Jagenothan: 这种对你的由衷敬重溢于言表。对于那些不认识 Nikai 的人,你会如何向他们描述他?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Level of respect for this man here. Uh how would you describe uh Nikai to people who who don't know him?
Devon Jones: 当我们在 Sunnybrook 医院 时,坦白说,我这辈子去过 Sunnybrook 医院探望伤者的次数远比我希望的要多得多。但 Nikai 身上有一种非常不可思议的特质——当你听到医生的悲观预后,说他可能再也无法行走了,但他依然拥有一股顽强的能量和坚韧的意志。
英文原文
Devon Jones: Um because I mean we were there in Sunny Brook. You know I've been sadly enough I've been at Sunnybrook more times than I care to admit, but there is something remarkably incredible about Nikai. This is and you hear the prognosis from the doctor. We might not walk again and you know and he had this energy and resilience.
Devon Jones: 他身上有一种超越痛苦的气场。他总是说:“Jones 老师,我一定会挺过去的,我要站起来走路。”他反过来给予了我们所有人力量。
英文原文
Devon Jones: He had this aura about him, you know, and like, "Mr. Jones, I got this, I'm going to walk." And he was giving us strength.
家庭支撑与社区生态
Jan Jagenothan: Nikai,当你谈到生命中最重要的人时,纪录片中浓墨重彩地展现了你的母亲,当然还有你的祖母。家庭在你的康复过程中起到了怎样的作用?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: When you talk about uh the people in your life. Uh your mom is is featured heavily in in the doc and and your grandmother as well. Uh what did it take uh for for you to pull strength from them?
Nikai Foster: 这其中很大一部分力量都来自他们。我的母亲一直陪伴在我身边,还有我的姐姐、我的父亲以及我的祖母。他们是我的坚强后盾,在背后默默支撑着我,帮助我重获力量、重回正轨。
英文原文
Nikai Foster: A lot of it you know my mom was always there for me along with my sister and my father too. My grandmother, everybody, you know, they were that foundation and that backbone for me in the background, you know, helping me to regain strength and getting back to me.
Jan Jagenothan: 在这个过程中,有 Devon 这样的人在身边有多重要?我们刚才提到了信任与深入记录,而拥有一个像 Devon 这样致力于社区建设并为年轻人提供真正平台的人,对你意味着什么?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: How important uh was having someone like Devon uh in this you we talk about access uh you know this being unique, but having someone in the community who does the work Devon does and and helps provide this platform for youth?
Nikai Foster: 我的意思是,如果没有 Devon,我根本不可能有这部纪录片。他不仅是我的社区导师,更像是我生命中的一位父亲。在我和他相处的这些年里,他总是给我提供最好的指引。所以今天能够坐在这里,我感到无比幸运。
英文原文
Nikai Foster: I mean, if it wasn't for Devon, I wouldn't have a documentary, right? You know, he was my community father like a father in my life, you know, in all the years that I've been with him, he's only given me the right direction. So, you know, I'm blessed to be here today.
枪支暴力文化的演变与青少年危机
Jan Jagenothan: Devon,有时候公众可能会看到政客们因为犯罪率下降或枪击事件减少而邀功,但对于身处一线的你们来说,现实情况真的是这样吗?在预防犯罪和提供救助方面,基层究竟面临着怎样的挑战?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Um you know it might be a politician getting credit for crime rate reducing or or there's fewer shootings, but as people working on the ground in the community, does that translate to the actual reality you're seeing in terms of need for services, but also in prevention?
Devon Jones: 这完全取决于年轻人处于社会光谱的哪一个位置。
英文原文
Devon Jones: It all depends where they are on the social continuum.
Devon Jones: 有些年轻人需要的是就业支持,有些年轻人需要的是心理健康援助。但对于我们来说,枪支暴力文化的演变是我们极其警惕的。就在最近,警方又逮捕了一名涉案的 16 岁少年。
英文原文
Devon Jones: You have young people who are there around employment. You have others who are there around, you know, mental health support. Um for us the culture of gun vi of gun violence is is is one that we're very attentive to. Um recently,
Jan Jagenothan: 最近他们刚逮捕了一名 16 岁少年。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Just recently they arrested 16-year-old.
Devon Jones: 又是另一名 16 岁的孩子,是的。
英文原文
Devon Jones: Another 16-year-old. Yeah.
Jan Jagenothan: 我知道你也认识受害者 Cashy。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Uh and I understand you you knew Cashy.
Devon Jones: 我认识 Cashy。
英文原文
Devon Jones: I knew Cashy.
Jan Jagenothan: 系统到底在哪个环节失效了?对于很多人来说,一听到 Jane and Finch 或者其他特定街区,就会产生刻板印象。但在基层,不仅是那些受到直接影响的人,在预防机制上,到底出了什么问题?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Where in in the system is this failing? Like for a lot of people when they hear Jane and Finch, you know, they have a preconceived notion. But on the ground, not only with the people that are being impacted in the communities here but in prevention as well.
Devon Jones: 是的。我们在 YAAACE 组织有一个概念,这是我们的临床社工 Nikki 博士 经常谈到的——年轻人之间冲突的触发门槛变得极低。比如在社交媒体上发布关于枪击或争执的视频、互相挑衅。
英文原文
Devon Jones: Yeah. I mean there's a there's a concept at at YAAACE that our clinical social worker Dr. Nikili is looking at which is the threshold of conflict, right? It's so low. You have social media that is really agitating and exasperating the conditions, right?
Jan Jagenothan: 你是指网络上关于枪击案的各种视频传播和口水战。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Talking about like just exchanges on on whatever just videos about talking about the shooting.
Devon Jones: 没错,或者在网上互相拱火。有人觉得“你在网上侮辱了我,那我就要对你开枪”。
英文原文
Devon Jones: Yeah. Or instigating each other where you know someone decides, well, you've disrespected me, so I'm going to shoot at you.
Devon Jones: 这就是我们目前必须应对和面对的极度肆意且盲目的暴力现实。这种暴力的蔓延导致整个社区普遍陷入对自身安全的严重焦虑。许多年轻人误以为他们必须通过非法手段把自身安全掌控在自己手中,从而彻底改变了这些社区的生存生态。
英文原文
Devon Jones: Right. You know, that's the level of indiscriminate violence that we're dealing with and navigating. And with that kind of level of violence, there's a lot of anxiety um around safety. Some of these young people think they got to take their safety into their own hands, and that alters the the the landscape in those communities.
从幸存者到影像创作者
Jan Jagenothan: Nikai,你不得不去适应枪伤带来的身体局限,无论是行动还是其他方面。但是什么驱使你走向了倡导与发声的道路?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Nikai, um you've had to adjust. Yes. To the physical limitations because of the injuries, whether it's mobility. But what pushed you towards advocacy and wanting to tell this story, to be on that path?
Nikai Foster: 当我最初在医院里让 Rico 用 4K 帮我拍纪录片时,我其实并不知道这会发展成什么样子。我只是想记录下我的恢复过程。但随着拍摄的深入,我开始意识到,这不仅仅关乎我自己。如果我能挺过来并且重新站起来,这也可以给其他人带来希望。我想向大家展示,无论你遭遇了什么,只要你不放弃,你就能够战胜困境。
英文原文
Nikai Foster: Okay. When I asked Rico to shoot my documentary in the hospital in 4K, I never really knew what it was going to turn into. I just wanted to document me getting back on my feet. But as we kept going, I realized it was bigger than me. You know, if I could survive and walk again, it could give hope to somebody else. I wanted to show that no matter what happens to you, you can overcome it if you keep pushing.
Jan Jagenothan: 我听说你现在还在跟着 Rico 实习。Rico 在幕后教了你些什么?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: I understand you're also doing an internship with Rico as well. Uh, what do what is what is Rico showing you behind the scenes?
Nikai Foster: Rico 教了我很多东西,比如怎么操作摄影机、灯光布置、音频录制,还有剪辑的逻辑。很多工作都是在幕后完成的,这让我大开眼界,也让我对影视制作产生了浓厚的兴趣。
英文原文
Nikai Foster: Rico is showing me a lot, man. Like camera work, lighting, sound, how to edit, how to put the story together. A lot goes into it behind the scenes, you know? It's opened my eyes to a whole new world, and I'm really enjoying learning the craft.
Jan Jagenothan: Rico,对于一位纪录片导演来说,当拍摄对象变成你的实习生、甚至成为你生活圈子的一部分时,你一开始预料到会有这种转变吗?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: A lot goes into I'm curious for someone who does doc, you know, who who's in this do in the dock world, did you ever imagine that he would end up doing an internship with you?
Rico King: 完全没有,完全没料到事情会这样发展。我们在拍摄过程中相处了非常多的时间。在这个行业里,有时候你很难让拍摄对象完全敞开心扉。但我与 Nikai 及其家人建立了极深的联系。我和他的母亲经常促膝长谈,他的姐姐非常棒,奶奶也很慈祥,他们就像我的家人一样。
英文原文
Rico King: No, no, no, not at all. Like uh yeah, it was interesting how that happened, right? Um I guess we spent a lot of time together, you know, and um yeah, like um I have a hard time getting people to open up sometimes in docs. But with Nikai and his family, we built a real bond. Um me and her have a lot of conversations. His sister is great, grandma's great. So, and like my family, you know?
Rico King: 整个过程非常有趣。带他了解幕后制作的每一个环节,让他成为这个创作过程的一部分,看到他从中学到技能并不断成长,这种感觉真是太棒了。
英文原文
Rico King: Very fun. Uh showing him behind the scene work that got, you know, it's amazing to be part of that and watch him learn and grow.
Jan Jagenothan: 是的。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Yeah.
Jan Jagenothan: 你最初的初衷是讲述一位年轻人的奋斗历程,但我很好奇,你希望观众在看完这部纪录片后能收获什么?或者在制作过程中,你个人学到了什么?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: You set out to tell the story of one young man's journey, but I am curious, what do you hope people take away, or what did you learn through this process?
Rico King: 我学到了很多。我从 Nikai 身上学到了什么是真正的坚韧。制作这部片子其实非常艰难,在情感上是巨大的消耗。但看到 Nikai 每天都带着微笑面对一切,这激励了我去坚持到底。我希望人们能看到枪支暴力背后真实的人性与伤痛,同时也能看到一个年轻人的生命力,以及当社区给予一个人足够的支持时所能产生的力量。
英文原文
Rico King: I learned a lot. You know, I learned I could persevere myself, you know, right? Uh, it was really hard to make this film. It was emotionally heavy. But seeing Nikai smile through it every day motivated me. And I hope people take away that behind every shooting is a human being, a family, and that with the right support from the community, young people can heal and thrive.
Jan Jagenothan: 我相信这个故事绝不会在这里画上句号。祝你未来一切顺利,Nikai。Rico、Devon,非常感谢你们今天来到演播室,感谢你们分享这些真知灼见。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Well, I know this story does not end here. Uh wish you all the best, Nikai. Uh Rico Devon, appreciate your work and coming into studio today.
Nikai Foster: 谢谢你。
英文原文
Nikai Foster: Thank you.
Rico King / Devon Jones: 谢谢,非常感谢。
英文原文
Rico King / Devon Jones: Thank you. Thank you.
Jan Jagenothan: 好的。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: All right.
枪击幸存者的“慢速滴漏”式创伤
Jan Jagenothan: 枪支暴力事件从来都不是孤立存在的,它们会产生深远的涟漪效应。然而,暴力对幸存者、家庭及更广泛社区的长期影响往往被严重低估。接下来,我们很荣幸邀请到多伦多大学社会学副教授 Jooyoung Lee。Jooyoung,非常高兴你能来到我们的演播室,最近怎么样?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Acts of gun violence aren't isolated. They create ripple effects, but the impact on survivors, families, and communities often goes unrecognized. Joining me now is Jooyoung Lee, associate professor of sociology at the University of Toronto. Jooyoung Lee, great to have you in our studios. How you doing?
Jooyoung Lee: 我很好,感谢你的邀请。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: I'm great. Thanks for having me.
Jan Jagenothan: 我想聊聊你的最新著作 《The Walking Wounded》。这本书凝聚了你在费城和多伦多两地长达数年的深入调查研究,追踪了枪击事件幸存者的真实生活。你在研究中发现了什么?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Now, I want to talk about uh your latest book uh The Walking Wounded. It's a result of two years of field research in Philadelphia and in Toronto, following the lives of gunshot survivors. And what did we find?
Jooyoung Lee: 我最核心的发现是:中枪并不是一个发生之后就结束的瞬间事件,而是一种持续一生的**“慢速滴漏”**式的痛苦。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: Um the main thing I found was that one getting shot is kind of a slow drip.
Jooyoung Lee: 人们在枪击后不得不长期承受慢性疼痛、创伤后应激障碍 (PTSD) 以及各种形式的身体残疾,这些后遗症严重侵蚀了他们的生活质量。更残酷的是,他们往往缺乏获得长期身体康复和心理健康支持的必要资源。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: People live with chronic pain, PTSD, various kinds of disabilities that diminish their quality of life. And they often lack the resources to get long-term physical rehab and mental health support.
加美医疗体系与康复资源断层
Jan Jagenothan: 在研究枪支暴力问题上,你拥有独特的双重视角——不仅体现在学术研究层面,还因为你曾在费城和多伦多这两个不同国家的城市生活和工作。人们通常认为加拿大的全民医疗体系能够提供更好的兜底保障,但实际情况是怎样的?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: You have a unique advantage uh point uh when it comes to gun violence uh not only with the research you've done, but you lived in Philadelphia and you live in Toronto now. And people might assume that Canada with universal healthcare provides a much better safety net for gunshot survivors. What did you find comparing the two?
Jooyoung Lee: 你不是唯一一个这么想的人。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: You're not the only one.
Jooyoung Lee: 在很多方面确实如此,特别是在急诊救治阶段,全民医保覆盖了急救和住院手术费用。但随着我在加拿大的深入调查,我发现一旦患者从急救医院出院,随后的长期康复支持体系就出现了巨大断层。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: And in many ways it is. Um especially with universal healthcare, but as I investigated more in in Canada, what I realized is that once you get discharged from acute care hospital, there is a cliff when it comes to long-term rehab and care.
Jan Jagenothan: 那么,对于一个遭遇枪击的受害者来说,出院后的实际康复境况到底是什么样的?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: So, what does what does that look like for someone who's who's shot who is a victim of of of gun violence in terms of ongoing support?
Jooyoung Lee: 简单的答案是:他们几乎得不到任何持续性的支持。在费城,许多受害者如果没有购买私人医疗保险或符合特定的救助计划,就完全无法接受理疗和心理辅导。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: Well, the the short answer is that they don't receive anything. So in Philadelphia, many of the victims without private health insurance or Medicaid couldn't access physical therapy or counseling.
Jooyoung Lee: 而在安大略省,情况惊人地相似。除非你的雇主为你提供了非常优厚的延伸医疗保险,或者你自己有足够的经济能力自费承担,否则公共医保(OHIP)对长期物理治疗、创伤心理辅导和专业康复设备的覆盖极其有限。许多年轻人在出院后只能全靠家人照料,陷入孤立无援的境地。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: In Ontario, it's quite similar. Um people unless you have an employer that has really good healthcare benefits or you have money to pay out of pocket, public healthcare (OHIP) covers very little physical therapy, trauma counseling, or assistive devices long term. So young people are often discharged home with their families bearing the entire burden.
从早期干预到精准社区资源投放
Jan Jagenothan: 我想稍微探讨一下不同的做法。Sunnybrook 医院曾经开展过一项针对枪击创伤患者的医院干预项目。但如果退一步看,从更宏观的社会预防角度来说,早期的暴力预防体系到底应该是什么样子的?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Um I'm going to actually push back a little bit. There was a a program I know run out of Sunnybrook, hospital-based violence intervention. But looking at early stage prevention more broadly across the city, what should that actually look like?
Jooyoung Lee: 早期的精准预防首先意味着必须识别出风险最高、资源最匮乏的社区街区。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: Uh I mean early stage prevention really looks like
Jooyoung Lee: 如果我们查看任何一个发生枪支暴力的主要城市地图,就会发现枪击案并不是随机均匀分布在城市各个角落的,而是高度集中在极少数历史上长期面临投资匮乏、失业率高企和边缘化的特定社区中。因此,真正的预防必须是将教育资源、青年就业机会、课后项目以及由社区信任领袖主导的基层调解网络直接精准投放到这些最需要的区域。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: Identifying the most at-risk neighborhoods, right? If we look at a map of any major city where there is gun violence, shootings are not evenly distributed. They are concentrated in a handful of neighborhoods that have historically faced disinvestment, lack of youth employment, and systemic marginalization. Early prevention means investing heavily in those specific areas—in youth programming, education, employment opportunities, and grassroots community-led intervention.
标签、身份与公众同情心的差异
Jan Jagenothan: 你在书中特别强调了“语言与用词”的重要性。你倾向于使用“受害者 (Victim)”这个词,而不是简单地使用其他标签。这背后的考量是什么?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: One of the things uh that you talk about in your book is language. Uh you use the word victim uh rather than just survivor or other labels in certain contexts, but also the stigma attached to gunshot victims. Why is language so important in how society views them?
Jooyoung Lee: 语言之所以至关重要,是因为社会往往会根据受害者的身份和背景对他们进行道德评判。当枪击事件发生在少数族裔或低收入社区时,公众和媒体往往下意识地假设受害者“肯定参与了非法活动”或是“自作自受”。通过明确使用“受害者”并讲述他们完整立体的个人故事,我们能够打破这种非人化的刻板印象,让公众意识到他们同样是需要关怀与保护的人类个体。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: Language matters because society often creates a hierarchy of victimhood based on race, class, and neighborhood. When young Black or racialized men are shot, there is often an immediate suspicion: "Were they involved in something? Did they bring this on themselves?" By examining the language and humanizing their stories, we challenge that harmful stigma and remind society that anyone who is shot is a victim deserving of empathy, dignity, and care.
Jan Jagenothan: 这让我想起我们最近看到的一些公共枪击事件。当枪击发生在所谓的“高档社区”或涉及看似没有黑帮背景的人群时,公众的反应和关注度往往截然不同。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: I'm curious about when I when I think of a shooting that we recently had seen uh it wasn't that long ago in affluent neighborhoods vs. marginalized neighborhoods. The public outcry and media coverage is night and day. Why is that?
Jooyoung Lee: 这正是因为受害者的身份认同在起作用。当枪击事件发生在富裕街区,或者受害者是白人、专业人士时,社会会将其视为一场不可接受的系统性悲剧,政客和媒体会立刻齐声谴责并要求问责;但当受害者是来自 Jane and Finch 等社区的少数族裔年轻人时,公众往往将其归咎为“街头帮派问题”,从而在无形中冷漠对待。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: Well, it's because of the victims, right? It's the identity of the victims. So when shootings happen in affluent, predominantly white neighborhoods, it's treated as a profound tragedy, a breach of safety that demands immediate political response and outrage. But when it happens in marginalized racialized communities, it's normalized as "gang violence," which numbs the public and excuses policymakers from providing real solutions.
枪声的反弹:家庭与社区的代际创伤
Jan Jagenothan: 是的,我在这些年结识的社区居民中也深切感受到了这一点。你在书中写道,子弹不仅射中了身体,更在家庭和整个社区中产生了剧烈的“反弹与回震 (Ricocheting)”。请详细谈谈这种影响。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Yeah, I mean I I have through um different people that I've kind of known over the years in communities seen that exact dynamic. Uh you write and you talk about uh the ricocheting through families and neighborhoods. Uh talk to me about what you mean by that ripple effect.
Jooyoung Lee: 它的影响是极其巨大的,我认为我们一直以来都严重低估了枪支暴力对家庭和社区造成的间接伤害。当一个年轻人家属中枪,母亲可能不得不辞掉全职工作在床前全天候照顾;兄弟姐妹可能会在学校出现注意力障碍、恐惧和学业滑坡;整个街区的邻居们每当听到烟花声或汽车尾气爆鸣声都会产生严重的创伤应激反应。这种恐惧在无形中摧毁了社区的凝聚力和心理健康。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: It has a huge effect. And I think we actually underestimate the impact of gun violence on various communities and families. When a bullet enters a person, it doesn't stop there—it ricochets through their entire social world. Mothers often have to quit their jobs to become full-time caregivers, plunging families into financial ruin. Siblings suffer from secondary trauma, anxiety, and depression. Neighbors live in constant hypervigilance where any loud noise triggers panic. It degrades the collective well-being of the whole neighborhood.
填补心理健康与长期支持的制度空白
Jan Jagenothan: 我们探讨了医疗体系、教育预防以及社区基础设施。从你的研究来看,当前体系中最紧迫的短板是什么?
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Talked about health care. Uh, we talked about uh a little bit about education and prevention and and policy. What do you see as the single most critical gap that policymakers need to address right now?
Jooyoung Lee: 我认为最大的空白是长期心理健康支持的极度匮乏。在加拿大和美国,急救创伤中心在保住伤者性命方面做得非常出色,现代外科学创造了无数生命奇迹。但一旦伤员脱离生命危险,面对伴随终生的抑郁、焦虑、PTSD 以及家庭经济重担时,公共体系中几乎没有任何长期的免费心理援助和生活辅导机制。如果不填补这一空白,许多幸存者在身体活下来之后,精神却被困在漫长的创伤阴影之中。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: I think the the biggest one is the lack of long-term mental health care. Modern trauma surgery is incredible at saving lives—surgeons can keep people alive after horrific injuries. But after the hospital discharges them, there is virtually zero accessible, culturally responsive, long-term mental health care for survivors and their families to deal with PTSD, depression, and chronic grief. If we save their physical lives but leave their mental health to deteriorate in isolation, we have only done half the job.
Jan Jagenothan: Jooyoung,我们今天的讨论就先到这里。非常感谢你带来的深刻洞见,感谢你的分享。
英文原文
Jan Jagenothan: Jooyoung, we're going to leave it there. I appreciate your insights. Thank you so much for this.
Jooyoung Lee: 感谢你的邀请。那么,大家认为社区需要采取哪些措施来预防暴力并更好地支持幸存者?欢迎在评论区分享你的看法。
英文原文
Jooyoung Lee: Thanks for having me. So, what do you think communities need to prevent violence and better support survivors? Share your thoughts below.