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卡特·威廉姆斯访谈：从童年创伤到喜剧生涯的救赎之路 The Diary Of A CEO 2026-11-09

卡特·威廉姆斯访谈：从童年创伤到喜剧生涯的救赎之路

childhood-trauma comedy-career personal-growth family-relations life-advice

摘要

卡特·威廉姆斯在访谈中回顾其童年遭受的宗教家庭暴力及13岁离家出走的经历，描述其通过阅读、从事推销及皮条客等职业过渡，最终发现单口喜剧作为职业路径的过程。他探讨了与父母的复杂关系，强调尽管经历痛苦但已达成和解，并建议年轻人珍惜时间，勇于尝试以寻找人生目标。
发布时间
16 节

从5岁到12岁，我被绑在地下室的一根柱子上，一次就是好几个小时。是的。我父母认为你可以每周把孩子打得半死，直到上学前在浴缸里昏迷不醒。因为为了让我过上那种被安排好的宗教生活，就意味着我必须百分之百地投入进去。[音乐] 而很早的时候，我就打定主意，我绝不照做。

英文原文 From 5 to 12, I was tied up to a pole in the basement hours at a time. Yeah. My parents thought you could beat a child half to death on a weekly basis to the point where they're unconscious in a bathtub before school. Because in order for me to live this religious life that I was set up to live, it meant that I had to be 100% invested. [music] And early on, I had decided I'm just not going to do it.

卡德·威廉姆斯，[尖叫声]

英文原文 >> Kad Williams, [screaming]

你在13岁时离家出走。这就是你在迈阿密市过夜睡觉的地方。你最终成了一名推销员，后来又当了皮条客。

英文原文 >> you left home at 13 years old. This is where you slept in the city of Miami. You end up being a salesman and you became a pimp.

是的。我去敲了一扇门，里面住着几位风尘女子，她们的皮条客刚被人杀了。她们每天晚上都会聊天，我确切知道[音乐]，正是那些谈话让我变成了一个更好的人。然后你的第一场单口喜剧演出，是你骗过保镖混了进去，因为你当时只有16岁，而且你赢得了比赛。

英文原文 >> Yes. I knocked on a door where some ladies of the night resided and their pimp had been killed. And they would have conversations on a nightly basis that I know for a [music] fact are responsible for me becoming a better man. And then your first standup comedy event was you lying to a bouncer to get in because you're 16 years old and you win the competition.

是的。但我之后有5年没再说脱口秀，因为我当时还不明白这是一份可以去做的职业。但它是我发现的最早的良药之一。对于我每天熬过来来说，它极其重要。在某个时刻，我更加确信这是我[音乐]命运的一部分。我读到过你写下了300位喜剧演员的名字，并且你决定要把他们全部研究一遍——

英文原文 >> Yes. But I don't do comedy again for another 5 years because I still didn't understand this was a job you could do. But it was one of the first medicines that I discovered. It was super important in me just making it dayto-day. And at some point I was more sure that this was part of my [music] destiny. I read that you wrote down the names of 300 comedians and you made the decision that you were going to study all of them

——因为他们比我更搞笑[音乐]，而那是我必须解决的问题，因为我在洛杉矶，在上《Comic View》，在情景喜剧里演戏。

英文原文 >> because they were funnier [music] than me and that's what I had to fix because I'm in LA. I'm on comic view doing acting on sitcoms.

你的父母，他们还健在。

英文原文 >> Your parents, they're still alive.

是的。

英文原文 >> Yes.

你今天对他们是什么感觉？

英文原文 >> How do you feel about them today?

嗯……

英文原文 >> Um

在本期节目开始之前，我想请大家帮个小忙。两个月前，观看这个频道的人里有61%没有订阅。现在我们已经降到了58%。我的目标是50%。所以，如果你曾经喜欢过我们在本频道制作的任何视频，如果你喜欢这个频道，能不能帮我一个小忙，顺手点击一下订阅按钮？这对本频道的帮助超乎你的想象。频道规模越大，我们就能在嘉宾和制作上投入越多。谢谢大家，请欣赏本期节目。

英文原文 before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask you. 2 months ago, 61% of the people that watched this channel weren't subscribed. And we're now down to 58%. My goal is 50%. So, if you've ever liked any of the videos we've made on this channel, if you like this channel, can you do me a small quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know. And the bigger the channel gets, the more we can invest in the guests and the production. Thank you and enjoy this episode.

童年与家庭经历

[音乐]

卡特，你能带我回到你最早期的成长背景中吗？如果我在你10岁之前的生活中做一只趴在墙上的苍蝇，我会看到什么、经历什么、感受到什么？

英文原文 [music]

Cat, can you take me into your your earliest context? If I was a fly on the wall in your life under the age of 10, what would I have seen, experienced, felt?

嗯，那几年对我来说很棒。我认字挺早的，大概三岁就学会了。我觉得自己成长得飞快，因为我在读成人的故事，在读大人所经历的事情，而且我一直在想，我到底要到几岁才能把这件事弄明白——因为我想不通到底谁能去冒险，谁能参与冒险，比如怎样才能让自己置身于我在这些书里看到的那些人的处境之中，比如士兵、船长和偷渡者。我很喜欢那部分。我只是想弄明白怎样才能让自己成为他们那样的人。

英文原文 Well, those were great years for me. I learned to read pretty early, like three. I felt like I was growing so much because I was reading adult stories and I was reading what adults were going through and I was trying to figure out how old am I going to be before I get this thing figured out because I couldn't figure out who gets to take adventures, who gets to be on adventures, who like how do you put yourself in these situations that I find all of these people in these books in like soldiers and captains and stole ways. And I love that part. I just wanted to try to figure out how to make myself one of those people.

愿望可别乱许。你想要一场冒险，你确实得到了一场冒险。

英文原文 >> Be careful what you wish for. You wanted an an adventure. You certainly got an adventure.

没错，没错，是的。但我当时就以为主人公都是这么过来的。就像灰姑娘在成为女主角之前，必须经历五件糟糕透顶的事。比如她必须有一个糟糕的家庭生活，他们必须对她很差，她遭受言语虐待，被分配做糟糕的脏活累活，继姐们也很可恶。但不知为何，她坚持住了，而且她……她一直保持着自己原来的那种为人，直到时机成熟。所以我天真地以为，所有的英雄人物都是这么过来的：一开始就是糟糕，之后就会变得更美好。我一直坚守着这个念头。所以我一直在寻找属于我的机会。

英文原文 >> Right. Right. Yeah. But I I I just assumed that's how it worked out for the hero. Like five bad things had to happen to Cinderella before she was able to be the heroin. Like she had to have a terrible family life. They had to treat her bad. She was being verbally abused. She was given a terrible job. The step sisters were awful. But for some reason, she maintained and she um she kept the type of person as she was still until things lined up. So I naively thought that that's how it worked out for all heroes, that it was just bad. And then it it got greater later. I just held on to that. And so I was looking for my opportunities.

真有意思，因为我深入研究过你的经历，说实话，我完全没想到你经历了这么大的一场冒险。你提到灰姑娘也很有意思。也许你就是喜剧界的灰姑娘，因为这确实是一场英雄之旅。你的故事——

英文原文 >> It's funny cuz I have thoroughly researched your story and I had no idea how much you have been on an adventure to say the least. And it's funny you talk about Cinderella then. Maybe you are the Cinderella of of comedy because it really is a hero's journey. Your story

——只要5英尺5英寸的身高能做到的极致。这——

英文原文 >> as much as you can do for 5'5. It's

是啊。这完全就是一个“矮个子之王”的故事，不折不扣。

英文原文 >> Yeah. It's as much a short king story as anything else.

而且你有很严格的宗教家庭背景，

英文原文 >> And you had a strict religious upbringing,

对吧？

英文原文 >> right?

跟我讲讲那段经历吧。

英文原文 >> Tell me about that.

我们不过节日、生日之类的事情。我……我没法参加很多课外活动。所有的活动都是基于《圣经》的，但在看书这方面我得到了通融。于是，书本就成了我排解受限和窒息感的减压阀。我可以去自己的房间，沉浸在这些书里，去到完全不同的地方待上两个小时，走出房间时感觉完全不同，就像自己参与了某种远比我自身宏大的事物一样。你在那个年纪和同龄人不一样吗？你觉得自己不一样吗？

英文原文 >> We didn't celebrate uh holidays and birthdays and things like that. And I I wasn't um able to do a lot of extracurricular activities. All of the activities were Bible based, but I got a pass with books. And so that became my pressure valve for feeling restricted and suffocated. I could go to my room and get in these books and be somewhere completely different for 2 hours and come out of my room feeling an entirely different way like I had been part of something a lot bigger than me.

Were you different from your peers at that age? Did you feel different?

我知道自己的成长环境和同龄人不一样，我知道外面的童年世界里有大得多的宽容度和自由度，远超我的经历。即使情况极其糟糕的时候，我也没把它看成实际上那么糟糕。我……我只是认定，如果它更艰难，那就意味着我注定要走向更美好的事物。我想——

英文原文 >> I knew that my upbringing was not the same as my peers and I knew that there was a lot more leeway and freedom out there in the world of being a kid um than I was experiencing.

Even when it was super bad, I didn't look at it as bad as it was. I I just assumed that if it was more difficult that just meant I was destined for better things. I thought

如今作为一个成年人，当你回头看这个小家伙时？

英文原文 >> And now as an adult, when you look back on this little guy?

嗯。

英文原文 >> Mhm.

作为成年人事后回想，你有没有发现他与众不同？

英文原文 >> Have you noticed that he was different in hindsight as an adult?

没有。

英文原文 >> No.

没有。这大概是我做得最好的事情了，那就是在55年里尽可能多地保留住了他的模样。我始终清楚这个小家伙以及他的所思所想，而且……我这一生一直都是个快乐的人。

英文原文 >> No. That's probably the thing I did the best was I preserved as much of him as I could in 55 years. I was always cognizant of this guy and what he was thinking and um I've been a happy person my whole life.

我是说，你这里有多大？你大概是几岁，五到——

英文原文 >> I mean, how old are you here? You're probably what, five to

所以那张我五岁，那张我七岁。看到这些照片是什么感觉？

英文原文 >> So I'm five there and seven there. How did it feel to see these photos?

嗯……

英文原文 >> Um,

我这么问是因为你把它们递回来的速度相当快。[笑声]

英文原文 >> I say that because you pass them back pretty quick.

[laughter]

这不正常吗？

英文原文 >> Is that not normal?

人们通常不会拿起来就递回去——

英文原文 >> People don't usually pick them up and pass them back

——像发扑克牌一样。

英文原文 >> like playing cards.

是啊。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

重新发牌。

英文原文 >> Redal.

我有点替他感到难过。现在我回头看那些照片，能看到……他是多么快乐、无忧无虑。但同时也知道他甚至在那时幕后都在经历着什么。我只是为这个小家伙感到无比自豪，事情最终以这样的方式为他迎刃而解了。是啊，因为我所有的照片都是那样。我所有的照片，我都像那样开心，[笑声] 但那天很可能过得很糟糕。你为他感到难过，是因为他当时所经历的，

英文原文 >> I kind of feel sorry for him. Now I can look back at the pictures and see um how happy and carefree that he was. also knowing what he was going through even at that time behind the scenes. I'm just incredibly proud for the little guy that it worked out for him the way that it did.

Yeah, cuz that's all the pictures of me. All the pictures of me. I'm I'm happy just like that,

[laughter]

but probably had a terrible day. You feel sorry for him because of what he was going through,

对吧？

英文原文 >> right?

他当时在经历什么？

英文原文 >> What was he going through?

有时候，快乐、好奇心重以及……一天24小时一刻不停，对于年轻父母带着他们的第一个孩子来说，可能确实有些招架不住。而且你知道，他们也应该被允许犯错。但是……

英文原文 >> There are times when being joyful and inquisitive and um on go 24/7 can probably be more than a handful for young parents um with their first child. And you know, they should be able to make mistakes as well. But um

我从你的书里读到过，家里存在虐待[清喉咙]，来自你的父母。你指的是这个吗？

英文原文 >> I know there was from reading your book, there was abuse in the home [clears throat] from your parents. Is that what you're referring to?

呃，体罚在我的生活里其实没什么用。当时……我父母信奉“省了棍子，惯坏孩子”。所以，要是有什么问题，不管是什么，直接打出来就行了。但这对我没什么用。我……我以一种不同的方式来面对它。而且我有点觉得，这反倒更加证明了我的人生是有意义的，证明我未来有可能做出一些有意义的事。否则，这一切又是为了什么呢？当我13岁离开家时，已经过了差不多6年，差不多是我半生的时间，就好像从这个阶段到12岁我一直在做准备：如果我得到一个机会能以冒险者的身份踏上自己的路，我就会那么做。如果你在这里是5岁和7岁，那在你们家，挨打是从几岁开始的？

英文原文 >> Uh corporal punishment wasn't really useful in my life. It was um my parents believed in spare the rod, spoil the child. So, um, if there were issues, you could just beat it out of them, whatever it was. That didn't really work for me. I I handled it, um, a different way. And I kind of felt like it was just more evidence that I had meaning in my life and that I could potentially turn out to do something meaningful. Or, what would all of this be for? Um, when I leave home at 13, it's it's been almost 6 years, almost half my life coming like I've been preparing from this point to 12 that if I get an opportunity to uh go on my way as an adventurer that that's what I'm going to do. If you're 5 and 7 years old here, at what age did the the beatings start in your household?

就是从5岁到12岁。

英文原文 >> Just from 5 to 12.

所以那是一段为期7年的时间。

我已经原谅了所有的当事人。因此，并不会仅仅因为我已经原谅了所有牵涉其中的人，回过头去揭开伤疤就变得更容易。这在我人生中是如此重要的一个组成部分，恰恰是因为我们必须被置于艰难的境地，才能弄清楚我们是由什么铸就的、我们能承受和做到什么。我处理那种处境的方式，是我对自己而言真正像个男子汉的最早范例之一，因为我不得不比大多数人更早一点做出成年人的决定。这当然谈起来并不让人愉快，我……我并不喜欢谈论它，但这仍然是故事中至关重要的一个部分。

我在读你的书时，在这一章——章节写着“这是为了你好”。在8岁到12岁之间，我的生活……

英文原文 So that's a 7-year period.

I've forgiven all the participants. So, it doesn't um make it easier to go back and peel scabs off um just because I've forgiven everybody involved. It's such an important part of my life just because we need to be put in difficult situations for us to be able to find out what we're made of and what we're capable of. How I handled that situation was one of the first instances of me actually being a man to me to myself because I had to make uh grown decisions a little earlier than most and um it's certainly not pleasant to discuss. I don't I don't enjoy discussing it but um still a critical part of the story.

As I was reading your book in this chapter chapter says this is for your own good. Between 8 and 12 my life

……变成了一个伪装成我们家地下室的私人战区。一开始规模还很小，如果你觉得那能算小的话。起初是每周挨三四次打。我说“挨打”（whooping），是因为他们就是这么叫的，搞得好像这是什么从大妈（Big Mama）那里传下来的健康南方传统一样。然而，这顿打后来演变成了某种极其可怕的东西。皮带变成了延长线，延长线又变成了水管。当这东西不再是给点教训，而是开始抽破皮肉时，他们换成了2x4木方。他们声称这是因为我——[叹气和喘息]——脾气倔，而且知道得太多了。

我这么说是因为，你知道，有些人听说过严厉的父母，但这完全是另一种范畴的惩罚了。

英文原文 turned into a private war zone disguised as our basement. It started small if you can call it about small. At first it was three or four whoopings a week. Then I say whooping because that's what they called it. like it was some wholesome southern tradition passed down from Big Mama. However, the whoopings matured into something monstrous. The belt turned into an extension cord and the extension cord turned into a water hose. When that started tearing skin instead of teaching lessons, they switched to a 2x4. And they claimed it was because I was [sighs and gasps] hardheaded and knew too much.

I say this because, you know, some people hear about tough parents, but this is a different category of punishment.

是啊。这是被绑在地下室的柱子上。

英文原文 >> Yeah. This is tied up to a pole in the basement.

你的父母——

英文原文 >> Your parents

一次就是好几个小时。是的。

英文原文 >> hours at a time. Yeah.

一次好几个小时。

英文原文 >> Hours at a time.

对。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

不过公平地说，我跑得快又会躲，他们试过——[笑]——他们试过不绑着我打，但效果不好。我满屋子乱窜躲闪。额，[笑] 所以最后就演变成那样了。

英文原文 >> But to their credit, I was fast and evasive and they tried [laughter] they tried it without tying me and that didn't work well. I was able to maneuver the entire house. Uh, [laughter] so that's where it eventually came to.

因为你知道得太多了。

英文原文 >> Because you knew too much.

不是因为我知道得太多，更多是因为我说得太多，而且明知道会有什么后果，我还是会说出来。我质问他们的那些事情，很多时候都带有《圣经》层面的性质。你知道，你们试图向我灌输这种我们集体认同的特定真理。而嗯……我在向你们解释，我、我不信那些，而且这必须讨论清楚，因为你们告诉过我《圣经》是上帝写的。所以我不想看到任何错误，不想看到任何疏漏。我不想看到有章节在讲应该怎样对待奴隶，因为这样的话，我就有另一番话要跟你们谈了。嗯……是的，哪怕在人生的那个阶段，我也只是想知道事情的真相究竟是什么。我本以为那是一个可以探寻真相的安全之所。但是，你知道，无论带来什么后果，我都依然愿意承受。

英文原文 >> Not because I knew too much, more because I said too much and I would know what the repercussions were going to be and still say it. The things that I was questioning them on were a lot of times biblical in nature. you know, you're trying to instill upon me this particular truth that we collectively believe in. And um I'm explaining to you I I don't believe that and it's going to have to be discussed because you told me the Bible was written by God. So I don't want to see any errors. I don't want to see any mistakes. I don't want to see a passage that talks about how you should treat your slaves because now I have a different conversation that I need to have. And um yeah, even at that point in my life, I just wanted to know what the truth was about things. And I thought that that was a safe place for it. But, you know, I was still willing to to take whatever came with it.

你当年作为一个那个年纪的孩子，知道那样对待一个孩子是不可接受的吗，还是说你当时觉得那是正常的？随着时间的推移，你对那段经历的看法发生了怎样的改变？你现在会把它归类为虐待吗？

英文原文 Did you as a child at that age have any idea that that treating a child that way is unacceptable or did you think that was normal? And how has time changed your perception of what that was? And do you now classify that as abuse?

知道，我心里很清楚。我明白同龄人犯事挨罚的那些行为，我一件都没做过，比如我从来没犯过法，还是处男，也从来没有偷偷溜出家门去参加活动。我只是知道，他们并不在乎我这个人。所以在头几年里，我只是想弄明白，自己身上到底有什么让他们不喜欢的。一旦我意识到这根本不是我能掌控的，我在私底下就变得反叛起来。你们爱怎么打就怎么打吧。在整个挨打的过程中，我照样会继续嘴碎反呛[ __ ]，我会自己在心里评述这一切，我会说类似这样的话：“你感觉怎么样？你打自己的亲骨肉下手可真够狠的。你还说上帝喜欢这样。”那就是挨打过程中的我，因为我只有这样才能撑过去。但没错，我那时就知道那是虐待了。

英文原文 >> Yeah, I I was cognizant. I I understood that the things that my peers were getting in trouble for, I had never done any of those things, like I had never committed any crimes. I was a virgin. I had never snuck out the house to go to events. I just knew that they didn't care for me as a person. And so for the first few years, I was just trying to figure out what what it was about me that they didn't like. Once I realized that it was out of my hands, then I privately just got defiant about it. Beat to your heart's content. I'm going to still keep talking [ __ ] through the process and I'm going to commentate this for myself and I'm going to say things like, "How does this make you feel? you sure are beating your baby a lot. You say God loves this. That's uh that's me during the process because that's how I was able to handle it. But yeah, I I knew it was abuse then.

你说你很小的时候就意识到他们并不在乎我这个人，对吧？

英文原文 >> You said you realized at at a young age they didn't care for me as a person, right?

在你与父母的那段关系中，有过任何爱的迹象吗，还是全都是这种虐待？

英文原文 >> Was there any sign of love in that relationship with your parents or was it all this abuse?

没有，我觉得这反而让他们成了更好的父母。就好像比起本可能的情况，我反而更感激他们了。因为我见到的所有母亲似乎都爱自己的孩子，你知道吧。嗯……我当时不太明白为什么我母亲没有那种感觉。考虑到他们的那种——[清嗓子]——感受，对于他们能把我照顾到那个份上，我已经非常感激了。

英文原文 No, I I I felt like it made them better parents. Like I appreciated them more than I think I would have. Like because all the mothers that I saw seem to love their kids, you know. Um and I wasn't really sure why my mother didn't feel that way. I was really thankful that they took as good a care of me as they did considering how they [clears throat] felt.

在你所说的地下室这个“战区”之外，他们哪怕有一点点充满爱意或温情吗？

英文原文 >> Were they loving affectionate at all outside of this war zone in the basement as you call it?

没有，但他们一开始就不是那样的，所以他们也不需要做出任何调整。我会看情景喜剧，看里面的那些家庭。呃，那就是我发现家庭关系本来不该是这样的地方。我看《沃尔顿一家》（The Waltons）之类的，你知道吧？“哦，原来当妈的每晚都得亲我一下啊，是吧？哈？真有意思。”对，家里完全不是那种亲亲热热的氛围。不过话说回来，考虑到那些情况，我对他们能那样对待我已经很感激了。

英文原文 >> No, but they didn't they didn't start off that way. So, they didn't have to make any adjustments. I I would watch a sitcom and see those families. Uh, that's where I would notice that this isn't exactly how the family dynamic is supposed to go. I'm watching the Waltons or something, you know? Oh, she's supposed to kiss me every night, huh? Huh? It's interesting. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't loveydovey like that. But again, I was thankful for how well they treated me. Considering

童年阅读与家庭动态

我读到过你小时候极其聪明，特别是在书本学习方面。你七年级的分班考试成绩太高了，以至于学校说你可以直接上大学。你是一个思维独特的人。你的思考方式与其他人截然不同。我认为你观察世界的方式也和许多人不一样。而且，你知道，我也听说过你非常喜欢我手头的这几本书。啊，看那儿。两本很棒的书。嗯。这两本是你最喜欢的书中的两本。

英文原文 >> I read you were an extremely intelligent young child, especially as it relates to books smarts. Your seventh grade placement test results were so high that your school said you could go straight to college. You are a different thinker. You think very differently to others. I think you you observe the world differently to many people as well. And you know, also hearing about your great love for some of these books that I have here. Ah, look at there. Two great books. Mhm. These were two of your favorites.

杰克·伦敦的《白牙》（White Fang）和《野性的呼唤》（Call of the Wild）。我当时完全被迷住了，他竟然能创作出如此扣人心弦的故事，让我彻底沉浸其中。这是最早让我放不下、无法转头去看另一本书的几部作品之一。我必须把它读完，并且……嗯，理解它。还有《瑞士家庭罗宾逊》（The Swiss Family Robinson），我简直为他们这个家庭感到无比自豪，看到每个人齐心协力、各有优缺点，并且……呃，总是彼此依靠的那种家庭互动模式。嗯……我能在这些故事中的每一个里找到可以直接套入自己生活的要素。你懂我的意思吧？比如……

英文原文 >> White Fang, Call of the Wild by Jack London. I was just mesmerized that he was able to create this captivating story that had me fully taken like this was one of the first ones where I couldn't start another book. I had to finish this and um and understand it. And the Swiss Family Robinson was just so proud of them as a family and seeing what the dynamic was of everybody working together and everybody having different strengths and weaknesses and uh always having to depend on one another. And um I could find something in each of these tales that I could directly put into my life. You know what I mean? Like

嗯。

英文原文 >> Mhm.

是啊。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

你还有……嗯，两个弟弟，史蒂文（Steven）和布莱恩（Brian）。

英文原文 >> You had um two younger brothers, Steven and Brian.

没错。

英文原文 >> Correct.

史蒂文和布莱恩受到的待遇也是一样的，还是有所不同？

英文原文 >> Was the treatment the same for Steven and Brian or was it different?

不一样，这让我觉得更多是我自己的问题。不过确实，我其中一个弟弟……呃，患有精神疾病，而我的小弟弟是个天才。我的二弟出生时，长得跟我父亲一模一样。整个家都因此变好了。他们有了他简直太开心了。[笑] 他们太开心能拥有他了，以至于我意识到，不管出于什么原因，我当时对他们来说肯定是个巨大的失望。他们和我之间隔了八岁，所以在他们出生前，我作为独生子生活了相当长的一段时间。

英文原文 >> It was different, which made me feel like it had been more me. But yeah, one of my brothers uh suffers with mental illness and my baby brother is a genius. When my middle brother was born, he looked exactly like my father. It made the whole house better. Like they were so happy to have him. [laughter] They were so happy to have him. um that I realized what a disappointment I must have been to them for whatever reasons. It was eight years in between them and I so I'd lived quite a long time as the only child um before they showed up.

他们曾经被绑在地下室过吗？

英文原文 >> Were they ever tied up in the basement?

没有。平心而论，他们意识到了那一套根本不管用。至少他们明白那是行不通的。

英文原文 >> No. To their credit, they were aware of the fact that that didn't work. They understood it didn't work if nothing else.

父母模式对亲密关系的影响

随着年龄的增长，我意识到自己是从看着父母的过程中，习得了一种关于何为关系、何为爱的模式。直到我长大成人，审视自己在恋爱语境中的一些习惯和反应时，我才意识到这一点。我发现自己有严重的逃避倾向，因为我成长在一个尼日利亚母亲和父亲经常处于某种口舌交锋的家庭中。我的尼日利亚母亲经常……你知道，一天花很多很多个小时……嗯，冲我父亲大喊大叫。我父亲却从不吭声。我们家里经常就是整整7个小时的尖叫怒骂。

英文原文 >> As I've gotten older, I've realized that I learned a model for what relationships are and love is from watching my parents. And I didn't realize that until I looked at some of my habits and responses when I became an adult in romantic contexts. I discovered that I was heavily avoidant because I grew up in a household where my Nigerian mother and my father were often at sort of verbal war. My my Nigerian mother would often, you know, spend many many hours a day um shouting at my father. My father would never say anything. It was just 7 hours of screaming in my house.

我过去常常纳闷，为什么我爸爸不离开呢？就像我、我、我其实希望他离开。

英文原文 >> And I used to wonder like why wouldn't my dad leave? Like I I I wanted him to leave.

我巴不得他们分手，因为那种状态太……嗯，剑拔弩张了。然后，你知道，年少时你根本不知道那是否在任何方面改变了你，直到你到了21岁，或者你14岁的时候有人想和你谈恋爱，而你却发现自己在逃避它——

英文原文 >> I was willing them to break up because it was so um volatile. And then, you know, you don't really know as a young person whether that's changed you in any way until you, you know, you get to 21 or you're 14 and someone wants to be in a relationship with you and you find yourself running away from it

——因为我想在很小的时候，我就认定了确立承诺就是坐牢。就像在我心里，我父亲就是身陷囹圄。

英文原文 >> because I think at a young age I I'd learned that commitment is prison. Like my father in my mind was in prison.

所以14岁、15岁、16岁，我花了四年时间追求一个女孩。最后她转过身来，答应和我在一起，我却产生了同样的恐惧感，就像有人要把我关进监狱一样。就好像某个触发机制被启动了，在我追求了她四年之后，我反而劝阻她不要和我交往。

英文原文 >> So 14, 15, 16, I spent four years pursuing this girl. She turns around finally and says she would be in a relationship with me and I got the same feeling of like that someone was taking me to prison. It's like a trigger went off and I dissuaded her from being in a relationship with me after four years of pursuing her.

是的。

英文原文 >> Right.

后来直到快……直到接近30岁，我才开始谈恋爱，那是我的第一段恋情。所以我回想起来会惊呼：“天哪，我以前根本没意识到，自己竟然习得了这样一种对待爱、关系和情感表达的模式。”在某个时刻，我必须付出努力去把这种模式给破除掉。

英文原文 >> And then I didn't get into a relationship until I was almost I was closer to 30 was my first relationship. And so I reflect and go, "Oh my god, I didn't realize that I had learned a model for love and relationship and affection." And at some point I have to do the work to sort of unlearn that.

是的。嗯，我的情况恰恰相反。我父母的关系算得上是我这一生所知道的最伟大的爱情故事。就像……嗯，我认识他们的时候我父母就已经结婚了，直到今天他们也依然是夫妻。他们对彼此的爱，正是我……

英文原文 >> Yeah. Well, it was the opposite. My mother and father's relationship equals out to the greatest love story I've known my whole life. Like um my parents were married when I met them and they're still married to this day. Their love for one another is what I

作为婚姻的基础。就好像我从没见过也没听过他们彼此争吵。我从没见过他们彼此之间[嗤笑]产生过分歧。在我整个人生中，我只在他们彼此的关系里看到过爱，

英文原文 base marriage on. Like I've never seen or heard them argue with one another. I've never seen them have a disagreement between [snorts] one another. I've only saw love in their relationship with one another my entire life,

这让人非常困惑。

英文原文 >> which is very confusing.

没错。表面上，他们是无可挑剔的。他们展现出的一切，完全符合人们心目中应有的完美模样。只是背地里有些事情极其可怕。但在他们做得好的时候，他们确实做得很出色。而我……我无法——呃[倒吸气]——如果不提及这些事情，我就无法公正地讲述这个故事。

英文原文 >> Right. Outwardly, they were perfect. Everything they presented was a perfect view of what you would think it should be. There were just things behind the scenes that were terrible. But when they did a great job, they did a great job. And I I can't uh [gasps] I can't tell the story fairly without mentioning that those things.

在……呃，你书里的第100……第165页，你写道：“说实话，我与女性之间的复杂模式并非始于成年之后。它始于家里。我的母亲就是原点。那本应是你关于爱、温暖与安心的第一课。然而，我得到的爱却只有小样大小。那种匮乏不会对你大喊大叫。它悄无声息地潜入，重新挪动你心里的家具。”

英文原文 >> In um 100 page 165 in your book, you say, "If I'm being honest, my complicated pattern with women didn't start in adulthood. It started at home. My mama was ground zero." That's supposed to be your first lesson in love, warmth, reassurance. Instead, I got love in sample sizes. That kind of shortage doesn't scream at you. It moves in silently and reshuffles the furniture in your heart.

可不是吗？因为如果无法从你理所当然认为会有爱的地方得到爱，想要去想明白为什么没有得到，就会有一点……呃，更加困难。其他女性给予的爱围绕在我身边，而且在我认识的每一个新女性身上似乎都能感受到。但由于我的成长环境，我没有任何姐妹，而且我母亲在个人层面上并没有那样与我互动。所以我……我缺乏一个参考框架去了解女性是如何思考或对话的。我是从自己读的书里获取这些的。我记得读过《小妇人》（Little Women），我读完了整本书，可读到结尾时，我一点也没看懂。我就是……我就是无法理解那些不同的女性，无法理解她们怎么会全都是亲戚，却对事情有着截然不同的看法。对，我可能得读上两三遍才能理解。我想在那之前，我一直以为……呃，男人和女人在思维过程和……呃，沟通方式上都差不多，结果却发现，几乎没有比女性更引人入胜的话题了，还有[笑声]她们对我们的世界是多么重要，而且……呃——

英文原文 >> Right? Because not getting the love from somewhere where you assume that it naturally comes in is a little bit um more difficult uh to process why that's not happening. The love from other women was all around me and present with every new woman that I met, it seemed. But because of my upbringing, I didn't have any sisters and my mother wasn't engaged personally with me like that. So I I didn't have a frame of reference for how women thought or dialogued. I was getting it from books I was reading. I remember reading Little Women and I read the entire book and when I got to the end, I didn't understand any part of it. I didn't I just didn't understand the different women and how they could all be related and yet all have these completely different viewpoints on things. And yeah, I probably had to read it two or three times just to understand. I I think up until that point I thought that um men and women were pretty similar in their thought processes and in their um communication only to find out there's almost no more intriguing subject than women and [laughter] how important they are to our world and and um

因为你生命中女性的模范就是你母亲。

英文原文 >> because the model of a woman in your life was your mother.

没错。没错。

英文原文 >> Right. Right.

虐待与宗教规训

那些虐待是出自你母亲和你父亲双方之手吗？

英文原文 >> Was the abuse dealt at the hands of both your mother and your father?

双方一样多。

英文原文 >> Evenly.

一样多。

英文原文 >> Evenly.

是的。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

是的。[倒吸气] 为了让我过上被安排好的这种宗教生活，这意味着我必须百分之百地投入，必须按照自己所信奉的方式去行事。而在很早的时候，我就已经决定，我不要过双重生活。我不会为了你们去假装这就是我的生活、假装对此感到满意。而且——

英文原文 >> Yeah. [gasps] In order for me to live this religious life that I was set up to live, it meant that I had to be 100% invested and I had to act the way that I believed. And early on, I had decided that I wasn't going to live a double life. I wasn't going to pretend for you that this is my life and I'm happy with this. And

宗教的那部分，

英文原文 >> the religious part,

对，用这些标准答案去回答那些问题，是的，我就是不打算那么做。

英文原文 >> right, with these answers to these questions and yeah, I'm just not going to do it.

他们是耶和华见证人吗？

英文原文 >> Were they Jehovah's Witnesses?

据说是这样。也可能是山达基教徒，不过确实是的。

英文原文 >> Allegedly. could have been Scientologist, but yes.

你为什么[笑]说“据说是”？

嗯，因为这不在任何人的宗教框架之内，你知道的，他们这样做并不是为了维持在教会里的良好声誉。教会并不赞同这种做法。即使在当时，也没人会认为你可以每周把一个孩子打个半死，打到上学前昏迷在浴缸里，然后你还得想办法让他……呃，把血止住，这样他才能去上学。没有任何宗教会容许这种事。但我们在该宗教里的地位很高，是很多人的榜样。所以，我必须演得更好，或者屈服。

英文原文 >> What [laughter] do you say allegedly?

Well, because this isn't in anybody's religious framework, you know, like they weren't doing this to stay in good graces of the religion. Like the religion wasn't condoning this. Even then, nobody thought you could beat a child half to death on a weekly basis to the point where they're unconscious in a bathtub before school and you're having to try to get them to where they can um where the bleeding will stop so they can go to school. Like no, no religion condones that. But we were high up in the religion and an example to a lot of people. So, it was necessary that I do a better acting job or give in.

上学前昏迷在浴缸里，

英文原文 >> Unconscious in a bathtub before school

他们把你放进浴缸里是因为你在流血，

英文原文 >> and they put you in the bathtub because you were bleeding,

对吧？

呃，对于……呃，刚刚发生的事，我们有时候差不多有一个小时的缓冲时间，而当时的我根本没办法去准备上学。但我们必须把血止住，我们必须……你知道的，用泻盐（Epsom salts），我想是这样，好让伤口结上一层硬痂，这样他才穿得上下衣服，能动身去学校。因为无论发生了什么，我都绝对不会缺课。学校在我的世界里就是一切。只要能有机会脱离这种境况，置身于另一个他们甚至不知道发生过这种事的境况中就行。这就是为什么我在所有的学校照片里看起来都很开心。

英文原文 >> right?

Well, we had like an hour to play with sometimes as far as um what just happened and now I'm in no shape to be getting ready for a school day. But we got to get the bleeding to stop and we got to, you know, Epsom salts, I believe, just so we can get a good scab on so he can afford to put his clothes on and get on off to school. Cuz no matter what happened, I was never missing school. School was like everything in my world. just to get a chance to be out of this situation and in a different situation where they don't even know that that situation took place. Like that's why I look happy in all the school pictures.

他们……他们打你，直到你失去知觉。

英文原文 >> They they beat you until you unconscious.

是的。他们的体力非常好。是的。这些……这些折磨会持续好几个小时。通常到了那时他们才会觉得自己做得太过分了。因为刚开始的时候，我家隔壁有一对很喜欢我的邻居，是一对年长的白人夫妇，我知道他们的房子离我家太近了，不可能[清嗓子]听不见。所以很多时候，我会确保动静闹得足够大，好让邻居们都能见证我所经历的一切。多年后当我见到他们时，他们感到……他们感到无比沮丧难过。他们说：“我们当时就是想不通到底怎么回事，因为我们在夜里能连续几个小时听到那些声音。”然后我们在早上七点看到你，你穿戴整齐、面带微笑走在上学的路上，就好像什么都没发生过一样。而……呃，我从中获得了许多。比如，考虑到这一点，我已经对外面世界可能发生的事做足了准备，仅仅是因为我知道在这种境况下我可以依靠自己去找到应对的办法，让我们能够好好的。

我知道你顺着那个话头是有想说的。

英文原文 >> Yeah. They had great stamina. Yeah. The these would go on for hours. Like generally that's when they felt like they had done too much. Cuz when it first started, like I had neighbors next door that loved me, an older white couple, and I knew their house was too close to our house for them not to be [clears throat] able to hear. So a lot of times I would make sure that it was boisterous enough that the neighbors could all bear witness to what I was going through. And when I saw them years later, they were they were so crestfalling. They were like, "We just didn't understand what was going on because we would hear it for hours and hours at night." And then we would see you at 700 a.m. and you'd be all dressed and smiling and your way to school like it didn't happen. And uh I got so much from that. Like I was so prepared for what might happen out in the world considering just cuz I knew I could count on me in those situations to figure an answer out where we could be good.

I know you're going somewhere with that.

喜剧与救赎

不，我只是……我只是太着迷了。这就是为什么我没有低头看笔记，因为这实在……我感到着迷的是，用我的话来说，如此可怕的童年经历最终是如何在你身上留下烙印的。你知道，我……呃，我曾坐下来采访迈克尔·乔丹和科比·布莱恩特的教练，他对我说的一件事是，用他的说法，我们……我们都有黑暗面和光明面，他说我们的黑暗面从根本上是与我们的光明面相连的。所以在很多时候，当你遇到喜剧演员时，人们会有一种刻板印象，认为他们在年少时就试图逗某个人开心，无论是逗自己还是逗父母，而喜剧往往就起源于此——这是常见的刻板印象，这也正是成就了他们今天作为优秀喜剧演员、表演者或艺术家的原因。我刚才就是在琢磨这个，琢磨这段经历与你后来在职业生涯中所做的事情之间，究竟有着怎样的联系。

英文原文 >> No, I'm I'm just so fascinated. This is why I'm not looking down at my notes because it's so I'm fascinated by how in my words such a horrific early experience ends up leaving scars on you and you know I um I sat and interviewed Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryan's coach and they one of the things he said to me is our our we have a dark side and a light side as he referred to it and he said our dark side is fundamentally connected to our light side. So in the case often when you meet you know comedians there's a stereotype that they were trying to make someone happy whether it was themselves or a parent when they were younger and that's really where comedy originated from often this is the stereotype and that's what's what's made them the great comedian or performer or artist they are today and that's kind of what I was mulling is how how this experience is at all connected to what you then went on to do in your life professionally.

对我来说，桥梁倒真不是在那里。我……我从没想过自己会去从事喜剧，但我很早就懂得，我可以依靠喜剧来帮助自己改变感受。所以，我对各种形式的喜剧都很感兴趣，不管是谁在表演，不管是闹剧、默剧，还是文学性的，抑或是唐·诺茨（Don Knots）的作品。我很认同这样一点：无论你正在经历什么，只要你能让自己笑出来，情况就绝对会有所好转。

英文原文 >> That's not really where the bridge for me was. I I never thought I would be involved in comedy, but I learned early that I could count on comedy to help me change how I felt. So, I was interested in all forms of comedy, no matter who was doing it, no matter if it was slapstick or silent or whether it was literary or whether it was Don Knots. I appreciated the fact that it didn't matter what you were going through. If you could put yourself in a position to get a laugh, it would absolutely make things better.

是让你变好，还是让观众变好？

英文原文 >> Make you better or the audience?

当时根本没有观众。只有我自己。我只知道，看一部喜剧电影会改变我的一天。比如在看电影的过程中我会笑很多次，以至于当我走出这种境况时，我的感觉不会……不会再像刚开始时那样。而喜剧每一次都拯救了我。

英文原文 >> There was no audience. It was just me. I just knew that watching a comedy film is going to change my day. Like I'm going to laugh enough times in this that when I come out of this situation, I won't I won't feel the way it was when I started. And comedy always came through for me.

你把喜剧描述得就好像它是药一样。

英文原文 >> You're describing comedy as if it's medicine.

只要管用，我什么都会去用。喜剧能把任何沉重的境况变轻松，即使是在葬礼上。如果你置身于葬礼仪式中，有人讲了个笑话，它的触动会更为强烈，因为……呃，我们需要那份欢笑。当我关上那个房间的门——只要一关上那扇门，此刻一切就由我掌控了。

英文原文 >> I would have used anything that worked. Comedy made light of all situations, even at a funeral. If you're in a funeral proceeding and a joke is told, it hits even harder because um we need the laugh. When I shut that room door that soon as I shut that door, I'm in control now.

你的卧室门。

英文原文 >> Your bedroom door.

对。而且我对自己的大脑有着其他人可能不知道的了解。我知道我可以往这里面输入东西，从而改变我看待事物的方式。我给自己灌输喜剧内容，纯粹就是喜剧素材，因为它实在是太有帮助了。等到后来我可以去表演喜剧的时候，[倒吸气]那……[清嗓子]完全是出乎意料的。我脑子里从来没有想过的一件事就是自己能去从事喜剧，但我……我已经对它的重要性怀有应有的敬畏了。

英文原文 >> Yeah. And I know things about my brain that I don't think other people know. I know that I can put things in here and it will change how I see things. I fed myself on comedy things, just comedy material because it was just so helpful. When it came a point where I could do comedy, [gasps] that [clears throat] was out of nowhere. That's the one thing I had never even put in my head is that I could be involved in comedy, but I I already had a proper respect for how important it was.

你13岁就离开了家，

英文原文 >> You left home at 13 years old,

是的，

英文原文 >> right,

而且是离家出走。带我了解一下导致那个决定的前因后果吧。

英文原文 >> and ran away. Take me into what led up to that decision.

我没有离家出走。当局介入只是迟早的事，事情就是那样发生的。比如我……我从来没有对任何人说过任何话。我的父母也从来没有说过

英文原文 >> I didn't run away. It was only a matter of time before the authorities were involved and that's just how it happened. like I I never said anything to anyone. My parents never said

……任何事。是学校里那些极好、极善良的管理人员注意到了情况——那个最喜欢体育课、最热爱体育运动的家伙，有时上体育课居然不换衣服，他们觉得这很反常，不像他的作风。于是，学校报了警。警察展开了调查，拍了照片，并计划第二天来我们家抓人。所以，我当时必须不在场，不能等抓人时还在那里，这样我的弟弟们才有一线生机。

英文原文 anything.

It

was

wonderful,

blessed

administrators

at

school

that

um

noticed

that

the

guy

who

loved

nothing

more

than

gym

physical

education

wasn't

dressing

out

for

Jim

sometimes

and

they

found

that

to

be

odd

and

unlike

him.

So,

you

know,

the

police

were

called

to

the

school.

They

did

uh

an

investigation,

took

pictures,

and

the

plan

was

that

they

were

going

to

come

to

our

house

the

next

day

and

make

arrests.

And

so

I

I

needed

to

not

be

there

when

that

happened

so

that

my

younger

brothers

had

a

chance.

所以警察拍下了你身上的伤？

英文原文 >> So

the

police

took

photos

of

your

body?

对。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

那他们发现了什么？

英文原文 >> And

what

did

they

find?

嗯，一目了然。我当时……我身上[清喉咙]全都是插线板电线抽打留下的伤痕。那些伤痕很深。而且往往能看出从电线到水管抽打的演变痕迹。所以你能看出来，我身上满是伤。

英文原文 >> Well,

it

was

obvious.

It's

like

I

I

got

I'm

[clears throat]

covered

in

um

extension

cord

wounds.

Like

it's

they're

pretty

deep.

They're

often

you

can

see

the

progression

from

the

extension

cords

to

the

water

holes.

So

you

can

there's

damage

on

my

body.

你当时希望警察知道这件事吗？

英文原文 >> Did

you

want

the

police

to

know?

不想，但是我……我当时没有办法向自己证明这种事是极其恶劣的，是远远超出常轨的。这是不可容忍的，这是犯罪。我自己对这些其实没有概念，但他们有。他们态度非常明确，事情绝不能这样。没有任何人可以这样对一个孩子[抽气]，无论你做了什么都不行。所以，当我问他们：“那明天会怎么样？”他们说：“我们会去你家，逮捕你的父母，把你们兄弟送到一个安全的地方，你和你的弟弟们，让大家都能安全。”我的问题是，他们能不能至少保证我的两个弟弟不会被分开，因为我们在城里有很多亲戚，这方面有很多选择。所以我只是想从他们那里得到这样一个保证。他们向我解释说，他们无法做出任何此类保证。他们不属于安置系统的一部分。他们的职责就是把孩子带走。至于系统接下来怎么处理，那就只能按系统的规矩办。所以，我当时想避免的，基本上就是让我自己的处境毁了我两个弟弟的处境。

英文原文 No,

but

um

I

I

didn't

have

a

way

of

proving

to

myself

that

this

is

egregious

and

outside

the

way

outside

the

norm.

This

is

beyond

the

pale.

This

is

um

criminal.

I

didn't

really

have

a

frame

for

that,

but

they

did.

And

they

were

quite

clear

that

it

doesn't

go

like

this.

Like

nobody

gets

to

do

this

[gasps]

to

a

child

and

it

doesn't

matter

what

you

did.

So,

um,

when

I

asked

them,

"So,

what's

what's

going

to

happen

tomorrow?"

And

they

were

like,

"We're

coming

to

the

house.

We're

going

to

arrest

your

parents,

and

we're

going

to

move

your

brothers

to

a

safe

place,

you

and

your

brothers,

where

everybody

can

be

safe."

And

um

my

question

was

could

they

at

least

promise

that

um

my

two

younger

brothers

wouldn't

be

separated,

you

know,

because

we

had

loads

of

family

in

the

city,

you

know,

and

there

were

many

options

for

that.

So

I

I

just

wanted

that

as

a

guarantee

from

them.

And

they

explained

to

me

that

they

couldn't

make

any

guarantees

like

that.

That

that's

not

they

weren't

part

of

the

system.

Their

job

is

to

remove

the

kids.

And

however

the

system

has

to

deal

with

it,

that's

how

they

deal

with

it.

And

um

so

that

was

basically

what

I

was

trying

to

circumvent

was

letting

my

situation

ruin

my

brother's

situations.

是谁告诉你父母警察要来的？

英文原文 >> Who

told

your

parents

that

the

police

were

coming?

我把那天在学校发生的一切都告诉了他们。

英文原文 >> I

told

them

everything

that

had

happened

that

day

in

school.

他们是什么反应？

英文原文 >> How

did

they

react?

我想从当时的情况来看，他们接受得还算平静。他们知道这事不可能跟我有任何关系。

英文原文 >> I

guess

they

took

it

well

from

the

story.

They

knew

I

couldn't

have

had

anything

to

to

do

with

it.

当你……你当时只有13岁，坐在餐桌旁面对他们说：“听着，我要走了。”你当时对去哪里、要做什么有计划吗？他们有没有试图阻止你离开？

英文原文 >> And

when

you're

so

you

sit

with

them,

you're

13

years

old

at

the

dinner

table

and

you

say,

"Listen,

I'm

going

to

leave."

Did

you

have

a

plan

for

where

you

were

going to

go

and

what

you

were

going

to

do?

Did

they

try

and

stop

you

leaving?

嗯，我想那个年代的很多父母都有这么一套说法：只要你还住在这个屋檐下，就得守这些规矩。我们家也不例外。我只是让他们知道，我再也无法忍受这些规矩和约束了。而且……

英文原文 Well,

I

think

many

parents

of

the

time

had

a

thing

where

as

long

as

you

live

under

this

roof,

these

are

the

rules,

you

know,

and

arts

was

no

different.

And

I

was

just

letting

them

know

that

I

could

no

longer

live

with

the

rules

and

regulations.

And

uh

“但你才13岁。你还……你还算不上一个成年男人。”

英文原文 >> But

you're

13

years

old.

You're

not

you're

not

a

man

yet.

“可我身高5英尺5英寸，而我父亲只有5英尺3英寸，所以我比这一家之主还要高，我不会再让你打我了。我们现在的局面就是这样。所以，不管你刚才得手打了我哪一下，那都是最后一次了。如果你所处的境遇对你这个人来说已经无法忍受，无论从字面还是象征意义上讲都对你的身心健康有害，那么不论你多大年纪，你都必须做出成熟的决定、正确的决定。对我来说，那无疑就是这样的时刻。”

英文原文 But

but

I'm

5'5

and

my

father's

5'3,

so

I'm

taller

than

the

man

of

this

house

and

I'm

not

going

to

let

you

beat

me

again.

That's

where

we

are

now.

So,

whatever

one

you

got

off,

that

was

the

last

one

of

those.

If

you're

in

a

situation

that

is

no

longer

feasible

for

you

as

a

person

and

it's

bad

for

your

health

literally

and

figuratively,

whatever

age

you

are,

you've

got

to

make

a

grown

decision

and

a

right

decision.

And

that

that

was

certainly

it

for

me.

你有计划吗？

英文原文 >> Did

you

have

a

plan?

没有。[清喉咙] 没有，没有。我……没有，绝对没有。

英文原文 >> No.

[clears throat]

No.

No.

I

No,

certainly

not.

你身上有钱吗？

英文原文 >> Did

you

have

money?

嗯。对一个12岁的孩子来说那简直是几百万美元，不过我想我当时大概有……我想我大概有1200美元。

英文原文 Mhm.

It

was

millions

of

dollars

for

a

12y

old,

but

I

think

I

had

like

I

think

I

had

like

$1,200.

1200美元。

英文原文 >> $1,200.

所以，我当时简直是在大把大把地花钱。

英文原文 >> So,

I

was

literally

hemorrhaging

cash.

你是搬到了别处，还是说从13岁起就无家可归了？

英文原文 >> Did

you

move

into

somewhere

else

or

were

you

homeless

at

from

13

years

old?

我去了一个卡车停靠站，打听哪些卡车是开往暖和地方的，因为我长这么大一直生活在俄亥俄州，我只知道自己不想一个人流落在外面还要面对冬天的天气。所以供我选择的其实就只有加利福尼亚州、得克萨斯州和佛罗里达州。佛罗里达就是我最终去的地方。所以一到佛罗里达，到了迈阿密，用你的话来说，我就无家可归了。但我并没有……我并没有那种感觉。我刚刚离开的那个家并不是我的，而且我在那里过得并不自在。所以我并不觉得自己无家可归。我感到……我感到了自由。而且我觉得，今天我不再是任何环境的受害者了。

英文原文 I

went

to

um

a

truck

stop,

found

out

which

trucks

were

going

to

warm

weather

places

because

I

was

had

been

in

Ohio

my

whole

life

and

I

just

knew

I

didn't

want

to

deal

with

being

out

there

by

myself

and

the

winter

weather.

And

so

it

really

left

me

like

California,

Texas,

and

Florida

as

my

options.

And

uh

Florida

is

where

I

ended

up.

So

immediately

upon

getting

to

Florida

to

Miami,

I'm

homeless

as

you

put

it.

But

I

didn't

I

didn't

feel

like

that.

I

didn't

own

the

home

I

was

just

at,

you

know,

and

I

didn't

feel

comfortable

there.

So

I

I

didn't

feel

homeless.

I

felt

I

felt

free.

And

I

felt

like

today

I'm

not

a

victim

of

any

circumstances.

迈阿密与皮科克公园

我找到了你睡觉的那个公园的标牌。从13岁起，[笑声]

英文原文 >> I

found

a

sign

of

of

the

park

that

you

slept

in.

from

13

years

old,

[laughter]

也就是迈阿密市的皮科克公园。

英文原文 >> which

is

Peacock

Park

in

the

city

of

Miami.

所以，上面真真切切写着“奇迹发生之地”，这难道不很有意思吗？[笑声] 在全美国，还有哪个公园会写这种话？为什么会……那句话为什么会在那里？但我的人生经历却证明，奇迹确实在那里发生了。太不可思议了。是啊，你确实做了非常详尽的调查。我以前甚至都没见过那个标牌。

英文原文 >> So,

isn't

it

interesting

that

it

literally

says

where

magic

happens?

[laughter]

Like,

what

other

park

in

America

has

that?

Like,

why

would

you

why

is

that

there?

But

my

life

story

says

magic

happened

there.

That's

crazy.

Yeah,

you

certainly

do

your

due

diligence.

I've

never

even

seen

that

sign.

你13岁时，在皮科克公园发生了什么奇迹？

英文原文 >> What

What

magic

took

place

in

Peacock

Park

when

you

were

13?

对于一个在世界上基本没有社会足迹、又热爱听故事的人来说，那就像是坐在前排近距离目睹人生的动荡与苦难。这么说吧，那是1983年的《迈阿密风云》。[笑声] 当时的迈阿密发生了许多事情。在这个公园的深处，存在着一个流浪者聚居群落。这个群落里的每个人在生活中都过得极其悲惨，而这种境遇对他们来说也是新发生的。他们不久前还是医生，不久前还是律师，不久前还是护士，不久前还有妻子、家庭和深爱他们的人，但他们做出了某种决定，沾染上了某种毒品，接着整个人生就开始急转直下。还有个人向我讲述了他的一生，直到酗酒问题找上门来，他支撑不住，失去了一切对他有意义的东西。这百分之百是我从未尝试过硬性毒品的原因，因为我在很小的时候就彻底被吓醒了。没有人讲述吸毒的美好时光，没有人说吃LSD有多棒，或者可卡因给他们的生活带来了多么美好的改变。他们曾经都过着体面的生活，曾经都是好人。只是你做出的某些决定，一旦做了就再也无法挽回。[清喉咙] 尽管公园里很有意思地连一只孔雀都没有，但对我来说，那里确实发生了奇迹。

英文原文 for

somebody

who

didn't

really

have

a

social

footprint

in

the

world

and

somebody

who

loves

stories,

this

was

um

a

front

seat

viewing

of

some

of

life's

turmoil

and

tribulation.

So,

I'll

say

it's

1983

Miami

Vice.

[laughter]

There's

a

lot

of

things

going

on

in

Miami

at

the

time.

And

there's

this

homeless

enclave

that

exists

at

the

back

of

this

park.

Everybody

in

this

enclave

was

doing

terribly

in

life

and

it

was

a

new

circumstance

for

them.

They

were

just

a

doctor

and

they

were

just

a

lawyer

and

they

were

just

a

nurse

recently

and

they

just

had

a

wife

and

a

family

and

people

that

loved

them

and

they

made

this

particular

decision

and

they

got

on

this

particular

drug

and

then

the

whole

story

is

downhill

from

there

and

this

guy

who's

telling

me

about

his

whole

life

until

alcoholism

shows

up

and

he

can't

hang

on

and

he

loses

everything

that

means

something

to

him.

And

that's

100%

responsible

for

why

I

never

tried

hard

drugs

because

I

got

scared

straight

like

too

early.

Like

nobody

told

the

story

of

good

times,

how

great

being

on

LSD

was

or

how

greatly

cocaine

had

changed

and

affected

their

life.

like

they

were

living

good

lives.

They

were

good

people.

It

was

just

certain

decisions

that

you

make

that

you

can't

get

back.

[clears throat]

No

peacocks

at

the

park,

interestingly

enough,

but

yes,

magic

definitely

happened

for

me

there.

公园里的流浪者群体照顾你了吗？对你来说那是一个安全的地方吗？

英文原文 >> Were

you

taken

care

of

by

the

homeless

community

in

the

park?

Was

it

a

safe

place

for

you?

不，我觉得根本没有任何安全的地方。有些人无家可归，是因为他们本身就是糟糕透顶的人。

英文原文 >> No,

I

don't

think

there

were

any

safe

places.

And

some

people

are

homeless

because

they're

terrible

people.

[笑声]

英文原文 >> [laughter]

有些人品质很坏，他们毁掉了自己人生中所有的后路与人际关系，伤害了不该被伤害的人，做出了极其糟糕的决定，他们就是这样沦落到那步田地的。我不得不明白，外面的人有好也有坏。

英文原文 >> Some

people

are

terrible

people

and

they've

burned

all

of

the

bridges

in

their

life

and

they've

hurt

people

that

didn't

deserve

it

and

they've

made

awful

decisions

and

that's

how

they

end

up

in

that

situation.

I

had

to

learn

that

there's

good

and

bad

people

out

there.

你当时靠什么赚钱？

英文原文 >> What

were

you

doing

to

make

money

at

at

that

time?

大部分时候，我能找到一些不需要身份证明的工作，只要有做生意的老板不介意有人来店里在非营业时间干活就行。所以在这方面上帝眷顾了我。我也尝试过偷车，在我当时所在的地区那是一门很赚钱的行当。我内心为此非常挣扎自责，从道德层面上我无法继续干下去，仅仅是因为我不想……我不想让自己唯一擅长的事情是违法乱纪。所以偷车这件事我只是非常短暂地涉足过。

英文原文 For

the

most

part,

I

was

able

to

find

some

employment

that

didn't

need

my

identification

and

just

somebody

that

owned

a

business

that

didn't

mind

a

guy

coming

in

and

um

working

after

hours.

So,

God

looked

out

for

me

there.

And

I

I

tried

my

hand

at

u

car

theft,

which

was

a

lucrative

thing

in

the

area

that

I

was

in.

I

really

gave

myself

a

hard

time

about

it

and

couldn't

morally

continue

just

because

I

didn't

want

to

I

didn't

want

this

to

be

the

one

thing

I

was

good

at

is

doing

something

illegal.

So

I

I

had

a

very

brief

stent

with

um

with

that.

公路旁的重逢

在你书中的第55页，你提到有一天你正沿着公路走，你的父母和哥哥找到了你，他们开着车停在你身旁。带我回到那个时刻。他们说了什么？你又说了什么？

英文原文 On

page

55

in

your

book,

you

talk

about

how

one

day

you're

walking

along

the

highway

and

your

parents

and

brother

found

you

and

they

pulled

up

beside

you

in

their

car.

Take

me

into

that

moment.

What

did

they

say?

What

did

you

say?

那大概是我在电影之外经历过的最像电影的一幕。此时距离我离开已经过了一年半，我辗转在这个州的这三四个不同地方[叹气并抽气]，当时我当真就是正沿着公路走，这时一辆车停在了路边。在此之前，我一直在商店里查看我能找到的所有牛奶盒，我知道根本没人在找我。没有任何寻人启事。

英文原文 >> It

was

probably

like

the

most

movie

like

scenario

I've

ever

been

a

part

of

outside

of

a

movie.

And

this

is

now

a

year

and

a

half

later

and

I've

been

to

three

or

four

different

locations

in

this

state

[sighs and gasps]

and

I

am

literally

just

walking

alongside

the

highway

when

a

vehicle

pulls

over.

So,

up

until

this

point,

I've

been

checking

all

the

milk

cartons

I

can

find

at

the

stores,

and

I

know

that

nobody's

looking

for

me.

There's

no

missing

persons.

你当时居然真的在查牛奶盒。

英文原文 >> You

were

actually

checking

milk

cartons.

嗯，是的，因为我有一个那么大的家族，我当时确信大家一定在想念我。嗯，[笑声] 我以为自己是个很棒的孩子，所以我不得不接受这样一个事实：并没有，

英文原文 >> Well,

yeah,

because

I

I

had

such

a

large

family

and

I

I

was

certain

that

I

had

been

missed.

Um,

[laughter]

I

thought

I

was

a

great

kid

and

so

I

had

to

come

to

grips

with

the

fact

that

no,

没有人想念你，没有人在乎你走了，也没有人注意到。你就那样流落在外。我当时整个人非常震惊，因为我吃不准他们是不是已经暗中跟踪了我一年半。他们跟踪我一年半了吗？他们一直都知道我在哪儿吗？我——我——我没有任何这方面的信息。所以，那是一次非常诡异的相遇。但与此同时，我原以为自己在见到他们时会有的感受，全都被见到弟弟们的喜悦冲得一干二净。在那一年半里，我并没意识到离开弟弟们对我的人生来说会是多么撕心裂肺的一件事，所以那种情感压倒了一切。他们告诉我他们现在住在佛罗里达，接着说，上车吧。

英文原文 nobody misses you and nobody cares that you're gone and nobody noticed. You're just out there. I was just really in shock because I wasn't sure if they have been tailing me for a year and a half. Have they been following me for a year and a half? Were they aware of where I was the whole time? I I I didn't I didn't have any of the information. So, it was a it was a very weird meetup. But I was also what I thought the way that I would feel about seeing them was completely erased by how happy I was to see my brothers. And I didn't realize in that year and a half how gut-wrenching leaving my brothers was going to be in my life and um so that kind of overwhelmed everything and they let me know that they were in Florida and yeah just hop in.

他们当时是在找你，还是刚好开车经过你？

英文原文 >> Were they looking for you or did they just happen to drive past you?

那正是他们搬去的州。所以我们后来才知道，我离开的那天，他们同一天也离开了。

英文原文 >> It's the state they went to. So we find out later on that when I leave that day, they leave the same day.

他们也搬家了。哦，因为警察要找上门了。

英文原文 >> They moved as well. Oh, because the police were coming.

所以他们全家同一天就搬走了——

英文原文 >> So they moved the whole family that same day

搬去了佛罗里达。

英文原文 >> to Florida.

这样一来，在我的家人或爱我的人看来，事情就从来都不像是离家出走，而像是全家搬迁了。而且因为他们是传教士，人们觉得这完全合情合理。于是，他们叫你跳上车。想必你就上车了。

英文原文 >> So it never looked to my family or people that loved me. It never looked like I had left home. It looked like the family had moved. And because they were missionaries, people thought that was perfectly understandable. So, they tell you to hop in the car. Presumably, you get in the car.

那时你和父母之间有过交流吗？有拥抱之类的吗？

英文原文 >> And is there a conversation that you have with your parents at that time? Is there a hug or

没有，但他们很——我知道出于某种原因，他们见到我很高兴。而我离开时并不是那种状态。呃，但每个人见到我都高兴坏了。

英文原文 >> No, but they're so I know they're glad to see me for some reason. And I I didn't leave on that note. Um, but everybody is overjoyed to see me,

你知道，因为当你客观地描述这些经历时，当你对我说“我意识到没人找我，也没人想我”这样的话时，这些话——这些话让我听了心里很难受，因为听到一个孩子这样说自己的父母，真的很令人心碎。但你却能用一种相当平静淡定的口吻说出来。这让我不禁好奇，这一生你是如何消化处理这一切情感的？你是否能够在某种程度上——也许“情感隔离”是个恰当的词，或者一般意义上让自己变得麻木，从而能够消化这一切并在生活中继续前行，而不用——

你知道，谢谢你。如果真是这样的话，这算是一种夸奖了。但确实，我从这两个人身上得到的，并不是我原本所期待的。但我却从意想不到的地方得到了极多的爱。所以，不管我父母在那场处境中表现得多么差劲，我的祖父母都非常好。就像——【笑声】就像我——对。对。没错。

英文原文 >> you know, cuz when you objectively describe these situations, when you say things to me like, I realized that nobody was looking for me and nobody missed me. These are um these are very difficult things for me to hear because it it's it's it's heartbreaking to hear a child say that about their parents, but you're able to say it in a way that's quite matter of fact. And that makes me wonder like how you've processed the emotions of all of this through your life. And have you at all been able to sort of like compartmentalize maybe is the word or maybe just generally sort of numb yourself to be able to process and move forward in life without you know thank you. That's kind of a compliment if that's what's going on. But yeah, I wasn't getting what it was I was expecting from these two individuals. But I was getting so much from places I didn't expect it. So for however poorly my parents might have done in the situation, my grandparents were wonderful. Like [laughter] like the my Right. Right. Exactly.

这是一张你全家人的合影。

可以说是在幸福感和福祉方面最好的家庭了，就像——是的，我父母身上的缺点并没有改变那一切。

英文原文 >> This is a picture of all of your family. literally the best family possible like as far as happiness and well-being and like it yeah my parents shortcomings didn't change any of that.

过去，为自己打工是一场巨大的、巨大的冒险，但那个时代已经彻底改变了。如果你脑海中有一个念念不忘的创业点子，我认为你至少应该去尝试把它实现出来。而这正是我们节目的赞助商 Shopify 大显身手的地方。他们的智能平台涵盖了你开启销售并让创意落地所需的一切。他们有这种拖放式编辑器，有 AI 助手协助你，还有数据分析功能，你完全不需要成为专家就能轻松上手。

Shopify 业界一流的结账功能确保你从第一天起就能顺利收款。它能帮助你留住更多客户完成购买，因为他们的结账流程极为高效，并且能为下次购买保存客户信息。像这样个性化的结账流程，意味着更高的转化率，也意味着企业更快速地成长。没有什么比创业伊始的第一步就遭遇困难、复杂或昂贵，更能扼杀对新创意的初步热情了。你需要节省尽可能多的时间和金钱，这样才能全神贯注于拓展自己的实际业务。而这正是 Shopify 带给你的。请访问 shopify.com/bartlet，即可立即开启免费试用。

我接下来要说的是一段广告，但这次的广告很不寻常。Grockbot 现在赞助了本节目，而我早就投资了 SpaceX，也就是拥有 Grockbot 的公司。Grockbot 是我手机上的一个应用程序，但它也可以在电脑上运行。基本上，我有所有这些不同的智能体，你可以把它们看作团队成员，此刻正在与我协作办公。与其他人工智能不同的是，它们都有各自专属的电脑，这意味着即使我关掉手机、合上笔记本电脑，它们依然一周七天、全天候 24 小时继续执行我布置给它们的工作。我手头就有一个智能体，能根据我在播客中说过的内容构思出全新的创意点子。这简直神了。

这门工具今年八月才刚刚推出。它再次让我抽出身来，去做那些作为创作者、创业者和投资人只有我才该做的事，也就是围绕品味、创造力和判断力的高层次事务。今天就用 Grockbot，你将事半功倍。访问 x.ai/doac，首月即可享受五折优惠。x.ai/ac。

英文原文 It used to be that working for yourself was a massive massive risk but that world has completely changed. If you've got a business idea that you can't stop thinking about I think you owe it to yourself to at least try and make it happen. And that is where our show sponsor Shopify comes in. Their smart platform includes everything you need to start selling and get that idea off the ground. They have this drag and drop editor. They have this AI sidekick and helps you. They have analytics and you don't need to be an expert to get going. Shopify's best-in-class checkout makes sure that you're getting paid from day one. It helps more of your customers finish their purchase because their checkout is so efficient and it saves their info for next time. Personalized checkouts like that equal more conversion equal a faster growing business. Nothing kills that early enthusiasm you have for a new idea than that first initial step to get going being difficult, complicated, or expensive. And you need to save as much time and money so that you can focus all of it on growing your actual business. And that's what Shopify gives you. Head over to shopify.com/bartlet and you can start your free trial right now. What I'm about to say is an ad, but there's something quite different about this particular ad. Grockbot now sponsors this show, and I've already invested in SpaceX, which is the company that owns Grockbot. Grockbot is an app on my phone, but it's also on my computer. And basically, I have all of these different agents. You can think of them like team members that are working with me to do work right now. And unlike other AIs, they all have their own computer, which means that if I turn off my phone, if I close my laptop, they continue working seven days a week, 24/7 on tasks that I've given them. I've got one that comes up with new creative ideas based on things that I've said on the podcast. It is absolutely insane. This only came out in August. It's freed me up again to do the things that only I should be doing as a creative, as an entrepreneur, as an investor, which is the sort of higher level things around taste, creativity, judgment. You will get more done with Crockbot today. And you can get 50% off your first month by heading to x.ai/doac. x.ai/ac.

意外登台脱口秀

那之后不久，你随家人去海地传教。你在书中很多地方都谈到了这件事。后来海地政府垮台后，你回到了美国。你回来时只有十五六岁。回到美国后，你没有再回学校念书。据我所知，大约在那段时间，你在嘉年华狂欢节打过工。

英文原文 You go on a mission to Haiti with uh with your family shortly thereafter. You talk about that a lot in the book. And then you return back to America after the Haitian government collapses. Um you're 15 16 years old when you return. You didn't return to school once you got back to the US. Um, you worked in a carnival, I believe, around that time.

是的。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

你的第一场脱口秀是什么时候办的？

英文原文 >> When does your first standup show happen?

话说当时我们从海地回来，我正琢磨着自己的人生该何去何从。

英文原文 >> So, now we're back from Haiti. I'm trying to figure out what my life holds.

那时你还跟父母住在一起吗？又回去跟他们住了？

英文原文 >> You're still living with your parents at this time? You're back living with them?

没有。要不是因为去了海地，回来跟他们住这一套早就行不通了。呃，我的心智已经超出了自己的年龄。就像是，我已经拥有了一整套成年男人的生活，根本不可能再被塞回小孩子的条条框框里去。

呃，但当我流落在这个社会上时，有这么一座城市，每当没有嘉年华巡回的时候，狂欢节从业人员就会聚到那里，我就在那个片区。当时有五六个人在做卖花的小生意。有一天晚上，他们下班后没回家，而是打算去一个小俱乐部，一个小酒吧。

英文原文 >> No. If it's not for going to Haiti, the whole come live with them thing already wasn't going to work. Um, I was already grown past my years. Like, I got this whole grown man life that just wouldn't couldn't be put in a child's box again. Um, but as I'm out there in this world where they have this city where the carnival people come to when there is no carnival, I'm in that area. And um there's five or six people that are part of this business where they sell flowers. And um one night they weren't going home after work. They were going to go to this um little club. this little bar.

这些人全都是成年人，21岁的人。

英文原文 >> And these are all adults, 21 year olds.

嗯，

英文原文 >> Well,

而你当时只有16岁，

英文原文 >> and you're 16,

我想是的。年纪最大的可能也就21岁，其他人都是十八九岁。而我才刚满16岁，你知道的，

英文原文 >> I think. Maybe the oldest person might be 21, but everybody else is 18 and 19. And I'm just 16, you know,

而且我身上只有正装。所以，大家就顺理成章地以为我是个到了法定年龄的年轻人。但当我们排队时，有人在查身份证，我意识到这马上要成麻烦事了，因为在场没人知道我的真实年龄。就在我拼命琢磨该怎么办的时候，我看到有些人并没有跟我们一起排队。有几个人绕过队伍走到保安面前说了些什么，保安就直接放他们进去了。既没查身份证，也没掏钱买票，什么都没有。于是我留意观察，发现：哦，他们走过去告诉对方自己是脱口秀演员，就直接进去了。那是我第一次知道这里居然有脱口秀表演。原来里面正在办一场脱口秀比赛。我因为跟他说我是脱口秀演员，所以没查证件就混进去了。他放我进去，并通知我是五号选手。我心想进场之后就能溜回朋友身边去。可是等我们进去一看，整个场地大概只能坐30个人。根本无处可藏。我真的就成了五号演员。他们交待说，上了台不管怎样你有三到五分钟时间，等你上去演完，等所有人表演结束，他们会评选出大家最喜欢的选手。那就是我涉足各类喜剧表演的第一次尝试。然后，呃——

英文原文 >> and I only have dress clothes. So, you know, everybody just assumes that I'm a of age young man. But as we're in this line, there's somebody IDing people and I realize that this is getting ready to be a situation because nobody here knows how old I really am. And right as I'm trying to process what to do, I see that some people aren't getting in this line with us. Certain people are walking around the line and going up to the bouncer and saying something and he's letting them right in. No ID, no money exchange, nothing. So, I'm paying attention to that and I'm noticing, oh, they're going over there and telling them they're a comedian and getting in. That's the first time I even know that comedy is taking place here. It turns out they're having a comedy competition. I'm able to get in without an ID because I tell him I'm a comedian. He lets me in, lets me know I'm number five. I'm thinking when we get in this place, I'll be able to just go back where my friends are. And um but when we get in there, it probably only seated like 30 people the whole venue. So there was nowhere to hide. I was literally comedian number five. They explain that you're just getting up there and you have whatever it was 3 to 5 minutes and you go up there and when everybody's done they'll pick who they like the best. And so that was my first foray into comedy of any kind. and uh

你赢了那场比赛，

英文原文 >> you win the competition,

对吧？但这恰恰证明我当时根本不知道是怎么一回事，因为就算我在上面待了四五分钟，我也只讲了一个笑话。我根本没有准备多个话题之类的。我真的就是走上台，整场演出从头到尾只聊了一个主题。纯粹只是因为他们喜欢那个主题罢了。而在那一晚之后，你有好多年都没再讲过脱口秀。

英文原文 >> right? But at evidence that I had no idea what was going on because I if I was up there for four or five minutes, I only told one joke. I didn't have multiple topics or anything. I I literally got on stage and I talked about one subject the entire time. It was just they liked the subject. And you didn't do comedy again for years after that night.

是的，我没有——我没有再讲脱口秀——

英文原文 >> Yeah, I don't I don't do comedy again

又过了5年，仅仅是因为，呃，我当时还是不明白这是一份你可以从事的职业。

英文原文 for another 5 years just because um I still didn't understand this was a job you could do.

你当时知道自己很有幽默感吗？

英文原文 >> Did you know you were funny?

我知道要做到幽默需要一定的聪明才智。我知道这，呃，比表面看起来要难。但我只是以为这与我——我的成功更多是与我当时挑选的题材有关。而且演5分钟能拿25美元。虽然我当时也觉得，呵，光动嘴皮子就能赚到挺不错的钱。但这看起来依然不像是一个工作机会。

英文原文 >> I knew that you needed a certain bit of intelligence to be funny. I knew that it was uh more difficult than it seemed. But I just assumed that it had my success had more to do with the subject matter that I had chosen at that particular time. And it paid $25 for 5 minutes. Although I could appreciate, huh, that's pretty decent money just for talking. It still didn't seem like a job opportunity.

如果我在你那个年纪，16岁的时候问你，你将来想做什么，你会怎么对我说？

英文原文 >> If I'd asked you at that age, 16 years old, what you want to be in the future, what would you have said to me?

我想当一名军人，为这个国家牺牲。

英文原文 I wanted to be a soldier and die for this country.

而且你在16岁时就申请加入海军陆战队。你参加了所有的测试。你轻松通过了。然后其中一名办事员核查档案，发现你离入伍年龄还差4个月。你在书里说：“我的梦想在靴带还没系上之前就破灭了。”

英文原文 >> And you applied to become a marine at 16 years old. You did all the tests. You passed easily. And then one of the clerks reviewed a file and realized you were 4 months too young to join. You say in the book, "My dream died before I even laced up my boots."

是的。因为这不是发生在我跟你交谈的那个时候，而是发生在一年前。

英文原文 >> Yeah. Because this isn't happening at the time that I'm talking to you. This is happening a year earlier.

我当时已经——是的。所以我那时才15岁。

英文原文 >> I had already Yeah. So I was 15.

[笑声]

英文原文 >> [laughter]

我当时才15岁，但我深受打击，因为我——

英文原文 >> I was 15, but I was I was crushed because I

我不知道你年纪够不够大，还记不记得那时候海军陆战队的广告，你知道的，就是从石头里拔出宝剑那个。

英文原文 >> I don't know if you are old enough to remember how the Marine Corps commercials were at that time, you know, with the pulling the sword out of the rock.

记得。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

之后的差不多五年里，你最终成了一名推销员，卖过各种各样的东西。

英文原文 >> You end up being a salesman for the next sort of five years, selling a bunch of different things.

没错。

英文原文 >> Correct.

最终你成了一名皮条客。[笑声] 这是真的吗？

英文原文 And eventually you became a pimp. [laughter] Is that true?

是的。全都是——全都是机缘巧合。

英文原文 >> Yeah. All All circumstantial.

机缘巧合。

英文原文 >> Circumstantial.

是的。全都是机缘巧合。我接触到了上门推销，对吧？我当时想，嗯，在这个行业里我多少已经占了先机，因为我发现大多数人做不好上门推销的原因，在于跟人说话会觉得不自在，或者跟不认识的人说话感到不自在，而我一辈子都在这么做。所以我没有那种特定的恐惧。

而且我卖的所有东西都非常好，对个人非常有用，以至于我为自己能把这些东西带给你而感到非常自豪。比如一开始我卖书和杂志，你知道的，我自己就是个读者，我也希望人们能多读书，而且我还能拿到提成。这对我来说是一件大好事，非常完美。呃，至于说，呃，当皮条客那部分，我可没主动想干那个。我只是敲开了一扇门，里面住着几位风尘女子，而她们刚在一次上了新闻的惨案中失去了自己的管事人，呃，是的，她们的皮条客在街头被人杀害了。因为我对自己的生活有掌控权。如果我真的想做，我可以放弃手头的事去帮她们。

英文原文 >> Yeah. All circumstantial. So I am introduced to doortodoor sales, right? And I'm thinking, well, I kind of already have a leg up in this particular industry because I find that what stops most people from being really good at doortodoor sales is not feeling comfortable talking to people or talking to people that you don't know or you know and I I have been doing that my whole life. So, I didn't have that particular trepidation.

And all of the things that I was selling were such good things and so useful to you as a person that I felt really good about being the person bringing them to you. Like I initially was selling books and magazines, you know, and I was a reader and I wanted people to do more reading and I get a commission. It was a great a perfect thing for me. Um, as far as the um pimping part, I didn't sign up for that. I just knocked on a door where some ladies of the night resided and they had just lost their guy in a tragic incident that was on the news and um yeah, their pimp had been killed out there on the streets. because I was in control of my life. If I really wanted to, I could quit what I was doing and help them.

这些女人教了你怎么做这一行，

英文原文 >> And these women trained you on how to do the job,

对吧？

英文原文 >> right?

而且你说她们还让他明白了做一个男人是什么样子的。

英文原文 >> And you you say also showed him what it was like to be a man.

记住，正如我向你解释过的，在我的成长过程中，家里其实并没有女性。所以，[清嗓子] 无论我之前对这些女士因为她们的职业而抱有什么成见，她们很快就用非常实事求是的方式为我彻底消除了。她们每天晚上都会聊天，我确信正是这些交谈让我成为了一个更好的男人。比如她们教我的那些东西，是我必须知道的。我需要知道卫生对一个男人有多重要。我还需要知道，呃，女人不喜欢男人的哪些方面，以及这些毛病大多是多么容易改掉。那曾是她们一天24小时都在讨论的话题，就是男人有多糟糕，有多可恶。而我当时下定决心，要竭尽全力不让自己陷入那种，呃，境地。她们对我来说，[叹气] 她们对我的帮助无以复加。

英文原文 >> Remember as I explained to you that I hadn't um grown up with women in my family really. So [clears throat] whatever conceptions I had about these ladies because of what they did for a living, they quickly dispelled all of that for me in very matterof fact ways. And they would have conversations on a nightly basis that I know for a fact are responsible for me becoming a better man. like the things that they taught me, I needed to know. I needed to know how important hygiene is for a man. And I needed to know um the things that women don't like about men and how easily fixable most of these things are. And that was their discussion 24 hours a day is just how terrible men were and how awful they were. And I was just determined that I was going to do my best to not be in those um situations, but they were [sighs] they were beyond helpful for me.

重返喜剧与向神祈求

你觉得是神让你重回喜剧行业的吗？你当时差不多20岁，但我听你多次谈到过祈祷和神在你重回喜剧界，以及真正把你的事业重心转向喜剧方面所起的作用——

英文原文 >> Do you think God brought you back to comedy? you're sort of 20 years old at this point, but I I've heard you talk a lot about how prayer and God played a role in you coming back to comedy and really sort of orientating your career towards comedy

因为我需要知道哪条赛道对我来说是有潜力的。呃，因为我的处境太绝望了，以至于我几乎什么都愿意去尝试，因为我有这股闯劲。你明白我的意思吗？所以我——我只是意识到，如果能挣快钱，自己在道德上是多么脆弱。因此我对我自己很失望，如果有人给我提供贩毒的机会，我竟然还会动心。我需要祂把我从自我中拯救出来。我的人生需要一个机会，让我能当一个单亲父亲，能让我整天待在家里，晚上去工作，做一些不需要担惊受怕的事情。当我完全不知道接下来该去哪里、该往哪个方向走的时候，我明确祈求了这些东西。正是在那个时刻，我祈求神，请一定赐给我符合所有这些条件的东西。如果你应允了，无论那是什么，我都将立即通过全力以赴的付出来向你表明我是多么感恩。

英文原文 >> because I needed to know which lane had potential for me. Um because my situations were so desperate that I was willing to try almost anything cuz I had the heart for it. You know what I mean? So I I just realized how weak I was morally if if I could make a fast buck. So I I I I was disappointed in myself that if somebody showed me the opportunity to sell drugs that I would even entertain it. I needed him to deliver me from me. I needed a opportunity for my life that would allow me to be a single parent, would allow me to be at home all day, work at night, something that I could do without having to look over my shoulder and and I asked for these things specifically when I didn't have any idea where to go next or which direction to head And that is at the point where I'm asking God to please just send me something that meets all of this criteria. And if you do it, I will immediately show you how grateful I am based upon how hard I go at this thing, whatever it is.

你怎么知道这就是祂赐给你的？

呃，我是说，我这里……[笑声] 我这里稍微复原了一下我听说你在卧室里做过的一件事。我读到你写下了300位喜剧演员的名字，并且你下定决心要研究他们所有人，以便自己能够成为最优秀的。

英文原文 >> How did you know this is what he sent you?

Um, I mean, I've got um I've got a [laughter] little recreation of something that I heard you did in your bedroom. I read that you wrote down the names of 300 comedians and you made the decision that you were going to study all of them so that you could become the best.

如果我有这份名单，这就会是我努力的目标。在我名单上的并不是那些已经家喻户晓、在我看来已经功成名就的喜剧演员。这300位是已经活跃在我所处的时代、地点和时期的在职喜剧演员。所以，你知道的，有成百上千的喜剧演员从未走出过《Comic View》，或者从未登上过《Def Jam》。这些才是竞争对手，而我当时正在琢磨，我该怎样超越这300个名字，才能让我自己的名字有机会与那些已经站在顶端的人相提并论。那曾是，呃，我试图要做的事。

英文原文 >> If I had this list, this would have been what I was trying to go for. on my list was not the comedians who were already household names and were what I deemed famous and out of there already. This was the 300 comedians that were working already and in my time, place, and era. And so, you know, there was hundreds of comedians that never progressed past Comic View or never made it to Def Jam. These were the competition and I was trying to figure out how do I get past these 300 names to even get my name considered with these guys that are already up here. That was um what I was trying to do.

而且你为此着了迷。

英文原文 >> And you obsessed about it.

嗯，因为他们比我更搞笑，而那正是我必须解决的问题。

英文原文 >> Well, because they were funnier than me and that's what I had to fix.

怎样才能成就卓越

这正是我好奇的地方：怎样才能成就卓越。人们看不到这一点。他们看不到你写下300个名字。他们现在只看到你在舞台上。因此当他们遇到挣扎时，有时会把这当作自己能力不足的证据。所以在你看来，从你这段经历中所学到的，怎样才能成就卓越？人们看着你，可能会觉得他也许一直就很优秀，也许生来如此。

英文原文 >> This is what I'm curious about is what it takes to become great.

People don't see that. They don't see you writing 300 names down. They see you on stage now. And so when they struggle, sometimes they take that as evidence of their own inadequacy.

So in your mind, from what you learned through this period, what does it take to become great? people look at you and think maybe he was always just great, maybe he was born that way.

我常讲一个故事，呃，我学到的最初教训之一，就是美国人与世界上其他优秀人群的区别所在。我们相信明天可以比今天更好。如果你能找到一个环境，或者一条赛道，一条路径，唯一永不失灵的法则就是：只要你在付出上超过与你竞争的人。在这个国家，你就能击败他们。

英文原文 >> I often tell the story that um one of the first lessons that I learned was what separates an American from wonderful people from around the world. We believe that tomorrow can be better than today was. And that if you can find a situation or a lane or a path, the only thing that never fails is if you outwork the people you're in competition with. You can beat them in this country.

你做到了吗？

英文原文 >> Did you do that?

是的。

英文原文 >> Yes.

怎么做到的？

英文原文 >> How?

是的。因为我所阅读、研究和看到的一切都让我相信事实就是如此。就像当年还是个孩子进入景观绿化行业时，我只有这一台割草机。但没有什么能阻止我拿下26个客户。我能拿下26个客户。即便你作为一个成年人并没有26份合同，我作为一个小孩，我的付出可以超过你。我可以更便宜地修剪更多院子，并做出这类能保证我获得更多工作的决定。每次我检验这一点时，都奏效了。割草如此。铲雪如此。上门推销也是如此。一旦我发现自己需要被拒绝300次才能得到30次认可，我就不再为被拒绝而困扰了。我现在的工作就是比你争取到更多的“不”。我知道我会比你更成功，因为我今天的目标是让900个人对我说“不”，因为我想要促成90笔交易。所以不，即使在单口喜剧中也是如此，比如我不会根据这些喜剧演员的背景或他们的表达方式等任何东西来评判他们。我看他们的喜剧表演，并计算观众笑了多少次。每个人都有15分钟的出场时间。我在计算并制表记录你的表现如何。也许你甚至都不知道这些信息，但我知道在一场15分钟的单口喜剧中，你的名字能带来9次笑声。而我知道，面对同样的……我正努力达到16和17次

英文原文 >> Yes. because everything that I had read and studied and seen led me to believe that that was the case. Like even as a kid entering the landscaping business, I only got this one lawnmower. But nothing stops me from getting 26 clients. I can get 26 clients. And even though you as a grown man, you don't have 26 contracts, me as a kid, I can outwork you. I can do more yards for cheaper and make those type of decisions guaranteeing me more work. And every time I tested this out, it worked. It worked for cutting grass. It worked for shoveling snow. It worked for selling doortodoor. As soon as I found out it takes me 300 nos to get 30 yeses, I no longer was bothered by the nos. My job is now to get more nos than you. And I know I'm going to be more successful than you because my goal today is to make 900 people tell me no because I want 90 sales. So no, even in standup, like I'm not judging these comedians on their background or their delivery or any of that. I'm watching their comedy and I'm counting how many times the people laugh. So, everybody has a 15minute set. I'm counting and tabulating how that went for you. Maybe you don't even have this information, but I know that in a 15minute standup, your name is good for nine laughs. And I know that I'm trying to come in at 16 and 17 for the same

……时间。所以我不会把你的名字从名单上划掉，直到我的产出超过你为止。

英文原文 amount of time.

And so I'm not crossing your name off the list until I am out producing you.

你一周工作七天。

英文原文 >> And you work 7 days a week.

一天八小时。

英文原文 >> 8 hours a day.

一天八小时都在做喜剧，还是……

英文原文 >> 8 hours a day doing comedy or

对，对，对。因为我觉得那是变强的捷径。如果我把它当成一份正经工作，因为我指望从中得到一份正经工作所能带来的东西。如果我每天在这上面花八个小时，我的竞争对手是绝不可能跟得上我的。我觉得这是显而易见的事，只要我更努力，就一定会有更好的结果。

英文原文 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I thought that was the shortcut to getting better. If I treat this like a real job because I expect from it the things you get from a real job. If I spend 8 hours a day on this, there's no way my competition can keep up with me. I I it seems a no-brainer that if I work harder, better things will happen.

在你迎来所谓、你知道的、人们常说的那种重大突破，也就是隐约察觉到事情正在发生转机的时刻之前，你花了多少年？在你经历那个让你惊呼“真他妈绝了，我觉得我可能真的能靠这个生活、养活自己了，而且我觉得我可能与众不同，我觉得自己可能已经熬出头了”的时刻之前，你进行了多少年的反复锤炼？

英文原文 How many years did you spend before you got a quote, you know, they call it like a big break, a moment where you kind of notice that things are shifting? How many years of repetitions did you put in before you had a a moment where you go, "Fucking hell, this is I think I might be able to really live off this and provide myself for this. And I think I might be different. I think I might have broken out."

六年。

英文原文 >> Six years.

六年。

英文原文 >> Six years.

六年。所以中间隔了六年。哈，好吧。我成了一名脱口秀演员，因为记得我赢了那场比赛时，比赛的奖品之一就是能为一个正在进行的巡演做开场表演。[嗤笑] 所以我一赢——

英文原文 >> Six years. So there was six years in between. Huh. Okay. I'm a stand-up comedian because remember when I won the competition, part of the prize for the competition was that you got to open for a tour that was already happening. [snorts] So as soon as I won

二十岁赢的比赛，

英文原文 >> the competition at 20,

对吧？

英文原文 >> right?

对，在俄克拉何马，

英文原文 >> Yeah. In Oklahoma,

我立刻就成了那场演出的五分钟开场嘉宾。所以我立刻就以职业喜剧演员的身份入行了，但从那时起到迎来第一个里程碑，足足过了六年。在那六年的时间里，因为我相信重大突破是必然会来的，我相信所有人都是这样走过来的。我只是想确保在那一刻到来时，我处于最佳状态。所以那就是我最初搬去萨克拉门托待了两年的原因，因为他们那里有四五个喜剧演出场所，而且挤满这些喜剧剧场的都是白人观众，我必须尽可能把那些白人观众逗笑。我不想去面对全白人观众时就非得换一套表演内容。我不想非得去扮演另一个自己。我希望能把引人发笑这件事做得更好，你懂吗？

英文原文 >> immediately it was I'm the fivem minute opener to this particular show. So I'm immediately going in as a professional comedian, but it is 6 years from that point before the first milestone. In the meantime of that 6 years, because I believe that the big break is inevitable because I believe that that's how it works for everyone. I'm just trying to make sure that I'm in the best possible position when that happens. So that's what makes me move to Sacramento initially for 2 years because they've got four or five comedy places and um white audiences that pack into these comedy rooms and um I need to be as funny as I possibly can for these white audiences. I don't want to have to have a different set when I go to a all-white audience. I don't want to have to be another part of me. I want to do a better job at being funny, you know?

所以，当我在这方面取得了一点成效时，《Def Jam》开播了，《ComicView》也播了，我意识到，哦，我对我们自己人来说没那么好笑。虽然我在白人俱乐部表现得很好，但作为一名黑人喜剧演员，我是处于最底层的。那些其他人远远跑在我前面。但这仅仅是因为我之前没有面对过黑人观众，你知道的。于是我去了奥克兰，在那里待了两年半，那里全是黑人观众，而且观众的喜剧鉴赏力很高，他们每周都能看到来自洛杉矶的喜剧演员。因此这又给了我一个开辟新天地的机会，直到我离开奥克兰时，我哪怕还不算达到了应有的好笑程度，但至少在面对以白人为主的观众和以黑人为主的观众时，能做到同样好笑了。我发现无论什么时候，你都能找到成功的规律。你越快找到它，就能越快付诸行动去验证它确实如此。所以从我的第一部特辑到第十四部特辑，我做所有事情的方法完全一模一样。我以同样的方式创作，以同样的方式构思，并像当时那样以同样的节奏去呈现，因为我的职责就是一直这样做下去，直到它行不通为止。只要它持续奏效，只要我能走完这一百座城市去巡演，把这一小时的喜剧打磨得更好——因为我已经在西部、东部、北部和南部的人群中进行了检验。我走遍了这些地方，我知道该补充哪些部分，删掉了不够好笑的内容并重新修正。现在我知道在走完这一百座城市之后，我知道它现在可以走向全世界了，它能逗乐大众，发挥它的作用。在那之后，我立刻就已经写好了下一个小时的内容，然后再次上路，在这一轮对话的下一个阶段中继续走那一百座城市。自入行以来，我一直都是这么做的。

英文原文 >> So, by the time I achieve some modicum of that, now Def Jam is on and comic view and I'm realizing, oh, I'm not that funny to my people. Like I'm doing really well at white clubs, but as far as a black comedian goes, I'm bottom tier. Like these other people are way far ahead of me. but just because I I hadn't been in front of black audiences, you know, and so then I go to Oakland and I spend 2 and 1/2 years there where it's all black audiences and audiences with a high comedy IQ where they're seeing comedians from Los Angeles on a weekly basis. And so that gave me another ground to break until by the time I leave Oakland now I'm at least not that I'm as funny as I need to be, but I'm at least equally funny if the audience is white predominantly as I am if it's black predominantly. And I found that at all times you can find the pattern to success. The quicker you find it, the quicker you can put it in action so that you know that it's the case. So from my first special to my 14th special, I have been doing exactly everything the same way. I'm writing them the same way. I'm thinking about them in the same way. And I'm turning them over in the same fashion as I was then because my job is to keep doing it till it doesn't work. As long as it continues to work, as long as I can tour the hundred cities, be better at this hour of comedy because I tried it out with people in the west and the east and the north and the south. I've traveled it. I know which parts to add. I've taken out things that weren't funny enough and refixed them. And I now know that at the end of that 100 once I've done a 100 cities, I know that this can now go worldwide and this will be funny for the masses and do that. And then immediately after I've done that, I have already written the next hour and I am now on the road again doing that 100 cities in the next part of this conversation. And so I have done that the entire time uh that I've been going.

十五年磨一剑与进军洛杉矶

你最终在三十五岁时拿到了自己的第一部单口喜剧特辑，名叫《凯特·威廉姆斯现场秀》（Katt Williams: Live），我记得我看过很多很多次。这也是我觉得所有我采访过的人中最引人入胜的一点：你的第一场喜剧演出是在十六岁。

英文原文 >> And you end up getting your first standup special at 35 years old called Cat Williams Live, which I I recall seeing many many times. This is what I find fascinating about all the people I interview is your first comedy show was 16.

是的。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

你在二十岁时重回喜剧界，而从二十岁到你的第一部特辑，用了整整十五年。

英文原文 >> You go back to comedy at 20 years old and from 20 to your first special is 15 years.

如今大多数人都意识不到事情需要花这么长时间，因为你知道，我们在Instagram上看到的往往只是最终的结果，我们就会觉得你肯定一直都这么搞笑。所以，我们就低估了背后的辛勤付出、反复磨砺，以及你去摸索——好不容易终于攻克了白人观众，结果[……]对黑人观众来说你却一点也不好笑。那又是另一种必须经历的蜕变。我总觉得每当我们想到成功时，不知出于什么原因，都会觉得它是飞快的。正因如此，当成功没有迅速降临在我们身上时，我们就会想：好吧，这可能不适合我，或者这个行业可能不适合我。这正是我在听到像你这样的故事时非常喜欢的一点，因为如果我对任何——我想，如果我对许多年轻人说：顺便说一句，你要花十五年才能拿到属于自己的特辑，我不确定会有多少人愿意报名走这条路。

英文原文 >> Now, most people don't realize things take this long because we, you know, we're on Instagram and we see just the sort of end result and we assume you must have been always funny. So, we sort of discount the hard work and the repetitions and the you figuring out, okay, you'd finally cracked white audiences, but [ __ ] you're not funny with black audiences. So that's a whole another sort of transformation that needs to take place. And I just tend to think that when we think about success, for whatever reason, we think it's quick. And because of that, again, when it's not quick for us, we go, well, it must not be for me or this industry must not be for me. And that's what I I love when I, you know, hear stories like yours, cuz if I told any, I think, well, if I told a lot of young people, by the way, it's going to take you 15 years to get your special. I'm not sure how many people might sign up for that.

说实话，要是你当年那么告诉我，我可能就不会坚持下去了。我当时并没有觉得：“哦，我二十五岁才刚入行，要到三十五岁才算合格。”每一次我来到上帝面前明确地说：

“我需要某些转机发生”，

它就真的会发生。这大概是那本书中最令人惊讶的部分，你可以真真切切地看到，在那些境遇中我并没有做什么特别的事。某种看不见的力量把我从这种处境中带出来，放在了另一个地方。如果我做好了，那很好；但如果行不通，我又会被带到另一种处境中，并得到另一次机会。嗯，是的，我一直被如此悉心地眷顾着。表面上看，就好像你熬了十五年才成功。不，我每一天都在获得成功。只要我每一天能够成为一名喜剧演员，设法赚到足够的钱撑过今天，然后赶往下一场演出，我就更加确信这是我命运的一部分，因为我有时达成里程碑的速度非常快。比如我搬去洛杉矶，那刚好是1999年的跨年夜。我们正迈入2000年，我说：“好吧，我要搬去洛杉矶。我要上电视。嗯，我要让自己成为一名真正的演员，我要开始参加这些试镜，我要拿到一部电影。”

英文原文 >> If we're being honest, if you'd have told me that, I probably wouldn't have continued. I didn't see it like, "Oh, I'm just getting into this at 25 and it's going to be 35 before I even qualify. Every time I would come to God and say specifically,

I need something to happen,"

it would happen. That was probably the most surprising part of the book is you can literally see that I'm not doing anything special in these circumstances. Something unseen is taking me out of this situation and putting me over here. And if I do a good job, so be it. But if that doesn't work, I'm being put in another situation and given another opportunity. And um yeah, I've just been handled with such great care. It it it looks like, yeah, you did this 15 years before you made it. No, I was being successful every day. Every day that I was able to be a comedian and somehow make enough to live for today and then go on to the next show. I was more sure this was part of my destiny because I'm hitting the milestones sometimes so fast. Like I moved to Los Angeles and New Year's that just happened for 1999. We're going into the year 2000 and I'm saying, "All right, I'm going to move to LA. I'm going to get on TV. Um, I'm going to make myself a real actor and I'm going to start going on these auditions and I'm going to get a movie.

那你遭到拒绝了吗？

英文原文 >> And did you get rejected?

没有，所有这些都在我到那里的第一年实现了。在洛杉矶的第一年，我登上了《ComicView》，上了电视；然后一到那里我就成了情景喜剧里的正规演员；接着我的第一次试镜是《下一周五》（Friday After Next），第一次试镜我就拿下了角色。就像所有事情都在顺理成章地往好的方向发展，而且恰恰是我暗自祈求得到的那些。

英文原文 >> No, all of it happened the first year I'm there. The first year I'm in LA, I'm on Comic View and so I'm on TV and then I'm a legitimate actor on sitcoms when I get there. And then my first audition is Friday after next and I get the first audition. Like everything just kept happening in a positive way and specifically what I had privately been asking for.

你当时认为自己会成为伟大的演员吗？你搬到洛杉矶，开始获得这些机会。在你脑海中，你是在设想成就伟大吗？你认为自己会成为一位巨星，还是你只是把全副精力都放在脚下的踏板上？

英文原文 >> Did you think you were going to be great? You moved to LA, you start getting these opportunities. In your head, were you manifesting greatness? Did you think of yourself as being a great or were you just so focused on the pedals?

我绝不会说“伟大”。你绝不会——

英文原文 >> I would have never said great. You never would have

——说“伟大”。不会。直到今天，我都不会那样看待自己。我们每个人都很特别，每个人都有成就伟大的潜力。有些人仅仅是因为自身所处的境遇或诸如此类的原因而被剥夺了这种机会，你懂的。但我相信我们都拥有同样的潜力。我的职责就是去找出属于我的潜力究竟是什么。

英文原文 >> said great. No. Still to this day, like I don't I don't view myself like that. Like we're all special. Like we all have the potential of greatness. And some people are cheated out of it just because of their circumstance or because of whatever, you know. But I believe that we all have the same potential. My job was trying to find out what it was for me.

你曾经害怕失去所拥有的一切吗？有时出身于你那种环境的人，一旦见识过底层，就会产生一种匮乏感偏差。他们通常会走向两种极端：要么不再畏惧底层，要么产生匮乏感偏差，拼命工作，因为他们意识到这一切都可能会被夺走。我想知道在这方面你是属于哪一派？

英文原文 >> Were you scared of losing what you had? Sometimes people that come from the places you come from have a bit of a scarcity bias once they've seen the bottom. They either kind of go two ways often. They they're not scared of the bottom anymore or they have a scarcity bias where they work so hard because they realize it could all be taken away. I'm wondering what what camp you're in in that regard.

是的。我从未见过有什么东西被夺走。我始终——

英文原文 >> Yeah. I never saw anything got get taken away. I always

看到……成者为王，胜者拥有一切。而在我的研究中，那些取得进展的人，不管我们讨论的是什么领域，永远都是在别人看不见时最努力的人，是在别人都不知道他们在谋划时就已在谋划的人，是把平时的练习看得和正式工作本身一样重要的人。在我看来，这些人才是不断向前迈进的人。所以，我知道喜剧界的巨匠都有谁。我也从未设想过自己能与他们并驾齐驱。我只是清楚哪些人平庸无奇、走中庸之道，而我下定决心绝不成为他们中的一员。

英文原文 saw that um to the victor goes the spoils. And in my research, it was always the person who had worked the hardest while people weren't looking, who had been planning when they didn't know they were planning, when they had acted like the practice was as important as the work itself. It seemed to me like those were the people that progressed no matter what we were discussing. And so, um, I knew who the comedy greats were. And I didn't envision ever being with them. I just knew who the middle of the road and the mediocre people were, and I was determined to not be one of them.

独立制作与自我价值

在那段时期一直到你的第一部特辑期间，你成了父亲。你人生中发生了很多事。我也读到过关于你被逮捕了多少次的内容。上面说你这辈子总共进了大约30次监狱，因为枪支指控，因为毒品大麻指控。你在35岁时推出了这部特辑。那是谁出的钱做这部特辑的？

英文原文 through that period up until your first special, you become a father. Lots of things happen in your life. You know, I was reading about how many times you got arrested. It says you went to jail 30 times in total in your life roughly for gun charges, for drug marijuana charges. Um, you get this special at 35 years old. Who paid for that special?

我自己出的。

英文原文 >> I did.

你自己掏的钱？

英文原文 >> You paid for it yourself?

是的，接下来的八部也是我自己出钱的。

英文原文 >> Yeah, I paid for the next eight.

自己出钱做特辑是普遍现象吗？我本以为你会拿到某种预付款或者……

英文原文 >> Is that typical that you pay for your own specials? I thought you'd be given some sort of advance or

在我有任何工作或者知道自己将来要靠什么谋生之前，我就认识了普林斯·罗杰斯·内尔森（Prince Rogers Nelson）。他在我的人生中起到了关键作用，纯粹是因为他总是想谈论生意。他总是在聊生意，聊它有多重要。早在知道自己会进演艺界之前，他就把一些理念深深烙印在我的脑海里。其中一部分就是他的教导：如果你能守住它，你最会为之自豪的东西——对吧？——就是你在起步之前就已经拥有的那个自我。

所以他告诉我，每一个艺术家，无论在任何时候多么成功，他们内心真正渴望的都是保持独立。问题在于，你一开始是百分之百独立的。你是唯一相信自己的人，然后你把自身独立性的一部分拍卖了出去，让其他人在这件事里占有份额，因为他们看起来比你更相信它，而且他们会出钱，等等诸如此类。

所以在踏入这行之前，我就下定决心要把事情做到足够好，即使没人踏破门槛来抢这些特辑，它们也依然是有价值的。而且通过我自己出钱，我就能确保我们请到了对的导演、对的制作人，确保场地是合适的。单口喜剧中有太多细节有时并不完美。我可以通过制作把这些细节做到完美，然后自己去拍摄。所以当我们做第一部的时候，我们就接触到了版权许可的世界。

于是就出现了这样一种局面：我可以自己把它做出来。我可以把它授权许可给HBO或者喜剧中心（Comedy Central）。他们会付钱给我，而我已经把它拍好了。所以我已经赚到了利润，然后他们会在自己的平台上播出一个月，一个月后版权就重新归我所有，我还可以把它制成DVD销售。我特别庆幸当时没有人相信我。我特别庆幸当时没有人想要我的作品，因为这反倒给了我拥有它的机会。

英文原文 >> I had met uh Prince Rogers Nelson before I ever had any type of job or knew what it was I was going to do for a living. And he was instrumental in my life just because he always wanted to discuss business. He always talked about business, uh, how important it was. And there were certain things he ingrained in me long before I knew I was going to be in entertainment. And part of that was his lesson was the thing that you're going to be most proud of yourself if you maintain, right? Is the thing that you already are before you get started.

So what he told me was every artist, no matter how successful they are at any given point, what they really wish they could be is independent. And the problem is you started off 100% independent. You were the only person that believed in you and then you auctioned off parts of your independence and let other people take ownership in this thing because they believe in it more than you do and they'll put up the money and so on and so forth. So already before I had entered, I was determined that I would do a good enough job that if no one was beating down my door for these specials that they would still be worth something. And by me paying for it, I could make sure that we hired the right director, the right producer, that the venue was right. So many things that um sometimes aren't perfect in standup. I could make those things perfect with the production and then just shoot myself. So when we did the first one, that's where when we were introduced into the world of licensing.

So here was this situation where I could do it myself. I could license it to a HBO or a Comedy Central. They would pay me for it and I had already shot it. So I already am making a profit and then they were going to put it on their platform for a month and after a month it then reverts back to me and I could sell it in DVDs. I was so thankful that no one believed in me. I was so thankful that nobody wanted my product because it gave me the opportunity to have it.

当一个人红起来的时候，在娱乐圈、在商界、在很多不同的行业里，秃鹫就会出现。秃鹫涌过来，试图向你灌输各种想法。正如你刚才描述的那样，这有时会改变你的动机。它会让你变得更加短视。它可能意味着他们会拿走你的知识产权，或者不管是什么东西。对于那些可能处于职业生涯早期、可能会遇到这些秃鹫的人——无论是在好莱坞还是在商界等领域的秃鹫，他们会走过来向他们承诺某些东西，给他们眼前的一根胡萝卜，但日后可能会夺走他们的一些东西——你会给这些人什么建议？你刚才给出了一个极好的建议，那就是尽可能保持独立，押注在自己身上，我也从中听出了这一点。关于那种成功的展开方式，大家还需要了解些什么吗？也许是你在这一方面犯过的错误。也许我这是在为自己问，因为你知道我34岁了，现在住在洛杉矶。人们给了我很多机会……

英文原文 When someone becomes hot, the vultures show up in entertainment, in business, in, you know, in lots of different industries. And the vultures come in and they they try and tell you things. And as you were describing there, it can sometimes change your incentives. It can make you more short-term. It can mean that they take your IP away or whatever it might be. for people that are maybe earlier in their career and are potentially going to, you know, encounter the the vultures, the vultures that are in Hollywood or in business or whatever that are going to come in and promise them something, you know, give them a carrot now, but that might take something from them later. What what advice would you give to those people? You know, you've just given a wonderful piece of advice about maintaining independence as much as you can, betting on yourself. I heard that in there as well. Is there anything else people need to know about the way that sort of success plays out? And maybe maybe a mistake you made in this regard. Maybe I'm asking this for myself because you know I'm 34 and I now live in Los Angeles. People are giving me lots of opportunities,

对吧？对我人生而言最重要的事情之一，就是自我价值。我强烈敦促所有创作者，去向你自己检验你的自我价值。如果你是任何领域的创作者，我想知道你值多少。而且我希望你能参照你的同行群体，向我证明你值多少。事情是这样运作的：如果你是一名橄榄球运动员，你打这个特定的位置，而打这个位置的人拿到的是这种类型的合同。一个跑卫的合同就是那样的。你心里要有这个数，因为你必须清楚自己的自我价值是多少。

英文原文 >> right? One of the most important things for my life is is selfworth. And I I would urge all artists to check your self-worth with yourself. If you're an artist of any kind, I want to know what are you worth. And I want you to be able to show me with your peer group what you're worth. Uh this is how it works. If you're a football player, you play this particular uh position and the people who play this position are getting these type of contracts. That's what the contract looks like for a guy who's a running back. And you you have that because you need to know what your self-worth is.

这里我得问你一个问题。

英文原文 >> I have to ask you a question here.

行。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

从你对我描述的一切来看，这个当年的孩子，人们绝不会以为他能有多少自我价值感，因为你当时所处的环境、你所遭受的对待，很容易让人得出自己毫无价值的结论。但成年后的你，似乎很清楚自己的自我价值。我之所以这么说，是因为很多人在早年经历中都被剥夺了自我价值感。可能是老师说过的一句话，也可能是某种境遇。所以他们现在听着会想：“是的，可是卡特，我觉得自己没多少价值，我也不知道该怎么假装自己有价值。”

英文原文 This kid, this kid was not someone from everything you've described to me that would one would assume had much selfworth because you were in an environment where you were treated in such a way where one might conclude that they're they're not worthy but but it seems like you understood your selfworth as an adult. And I say this because there'll be many people who have had their self-worth removed from them in their early experiences. It could have been a teacher that said something, a circumstance. So, they're listening now and going, "Yeah, but Cat, um, I don't think I'm worth much and I don't know how to pretend that I am."

是的。我从来、从来、从来没有过哪怕一刻那样的想法。我建议坐在家里的各位，不要再允许自己那样想了。你的大脑并没有你想象的那么聪明。就算你不得不对自己撒谎来确定自己的自我价值，你也应该这么做。你的自我价值是由你自己掌控的。世上没有毫无价值的人，也没有毫无价值的努力。如果你多读些书，你就会明白，对于你想做的事情，你完全绰绰有余。而那些远不如你够格的人，才华远不如你的人，机会远不如你的人，全都能够做成这一件事。

我的处境比大多数人更好，因为我并没有把自己的自我价值建立在自己身上。我把这一切都托付给了我侍奉的上帝，并把他放在这样一个位置上：是啊，如果你是真实存在的，如果你爱我，而你也知道我也爱你，那么我认为你不会任由我在外面的波浪中随波逐流。我认为，如果我尽最大努力成为一个更好的人，做出更好的决定，我认为这会得到回报。我唯一祈求的是，如果我哪天到了不知所措的地步，我能够向你呼求，‘嘿，你会帮我想明白这件事的。’要不是因为我一直在进行这些对话，我个人也不会觉得上帝是真实的。我在祈求我需要的东西，并得到了回应，而且我在遵从我认为的回应指引。所以你能够明白，所有的错误都是我自己造成的。比如我想错了，我的想法有误，我没意识到问题所在，直接做了决定。但你在这个世界上并不孤单，你不该有那种孤立无援的感觉。

英文原文 >> Yeah. I never I never I never spent one moment like that. And I would suggest you at home, um, don't allow yourself to think that anymore. Your brain is not as smart as you think it is. Even if you have to lie to yourself about what your selfworth is, that's what you should do. You are in control of what your selfworth is. And there are no worthless people. There are no worthless endeavors. And if you read more, you would know that you are more than qualified for what it is you're trying to do. And people far less qualified than you. People with far less talent, people with far less opportunity, have all been able to do this one thing.

I was a in a better position than most because I wasn't basing my self-worth on myself. I was putting all of that on the God that I serve and putting in him in a position to where it was, yeah, if you're real and you love me and you know I love you too, then I don't think you're going to let me just get tossed about on the waves out here. I think that if I [sighs and gasps] um do my best to become a better person and to make better decisions, I think that that's going to be reciprocated. And I'm only asking that if I should ever get to a point where I don't know what to do, that I would be able to call on you, hey, you'll help me figure this thing out. And um [gasps and sighs] otherwise I personally wouldn't feel like God was real if it wasn't for the fact that I'm having these conversations. I'm asking for the things that I need and I'm getting answers to them and I'm following what I think the answer is saying. So you're able to see that all the mistakes were me. Like I thought the wrong thing. I was thinking the wrong thing. I wasn't aware of and I would just make the decisions. But you're not out here alone and you shouldn't feel that.

你绝对没有受害者心态。

英文原文 >> You definitely don't have a victim mindset.

因为我没有、我并没有受害。你不可能抱着受害者心态还能一直赢。而事实上我一直在赢。

英文原文 >> Cuz I haven't I haven't been victimized. Like you you you can't do that and be winning all the time. And I'm literally winning all the time.

有人可能会想：卡特，你听着，你描述过你的童年，你出生的那个家庭，父母似乎并不在乎你。有人可能会说，你完全有充分的理由产生受害者心态。

英文原文 >> Some people be thinking, Cat, listen. You described your childhood, a circumstance where you were born into a family where your parents didn't appear to care about you. Some might say you have ample opportunity to have a victim mindset.

在最初的环境下，你拿到的可不是一手好牌。

英文原文 >> You were not the best of cards in the earliest context.

对吧？但你要记住，我的一切依据都是我读的那些书。而在我读的那些书里，没有人是那样的。我读过的书里，没有一本写着‘嘿，这个人拥有一切，所有东西都是现成给他的，一切都很顺利，人生中从来没有任何动荡或冲突，天呐，他最后成为了不起的人物’。我从来没读过……

英文原文 >> Right? But remind yourself, I'm basing everything on these books I'm reading. And in these books that I'm reading, nobody did. I didn't read not one book of hey this person had everything and it was all given to them and everything was fine and uh there was never any turmoil or strife in their life and boy they turned out great. I never read

那本书。我也见过截然相反的情况。我见过这样的故事：一个人一辈子都被当作王子抚养长大，觉得自己对这个世界的运作方式了如指掌，结果后来在《乞丐与王子》的故事里才发现，一切都充满偶然性；如果你身处那样的境地，你又会变成什么样？嗯，是的，我已经见过了太多那样的事情。当积极的一面如此压倒性的时候，我拒绝去看消极的一面。

英文原文 that book. I've seen it go the opposite way. I've seen stories where this man is raised as a prince his whole life and feels like he has a great understanding of how the world is and then later finds out with the prince and the popper how circumstantial everything is that if you were in this situation what would you be then? Um yeah I had I had seen too much of that. I refuse to um look at the negative when the positive is so overwhelming.

正下方应该有一个按钮。如果上面写着“subscribed”（已订阅），那你就已经订阅了。如果写着“subscriber”，就意味着你还没有订阅。如果你还没订阅，能否帮我们一个忙，点击那个按钮？这对节目的帮助比你想象的还要大。根据算法，你是我们节目的观众，但你还没点过那个按钮。非常感谢。

英文原文 There should be a button just down below here. And if it says subscribed, you're already subscribed. If it says subscriber, that means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please could you do us a favor and hit that button? It helps the show more than you know. And according to the algorithm, you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button. Thank you so much.

信仰与宗教

在你描述自己与上帝的关系时，我脑海中浮现出的一件事是，当我回想起你早年的那段经历——

英文原文 One of the things that was sprung to my mind as you're describing your relationship with God is when I reflect on that early experience where

你说过，你挨父母的许多打，起因都是你对他们投射给你的宗教教义产生了争执。有人可能会假设，而且我想我也曾假设过，这是否意味着你成年后会远离宗教和上帝；但你现在坐在这里，脖子上挂着一个巨大的十字架，谈论着上帝如何指引了你的一生。你该如何——我该如何把这两件事调和起来？

英文原文 >> many of the beatings that you said you got from your parents originated from you having a a dispute with the religious teachings that they were sort of projecting onto you. One might assume, and I think I assumed that that would mean you turned away from religion and God as an as an adult, but you're sat here with a massive uh cross around your neck talking about how God has guided you throughout your life. How do you how do I square those two things?

嗯，我早年，在我的生命中，[清嗓子] 就彻底把上帝以及与他的关系同宗教仪式分开了。所以我把宗教分开了——

英文原文 >> Well, I I early on in my life [clears throat] made a separation between God and a relationship with him from religious practices completely. So I made a separation between religion

是的。

英文原文 >> Yeah.

——与跟上帝的关系。我认为，无论那个人的国籍、信条或种族是什么，他们个人的宗教只是他们解释、掌控和处理与上帝关系的一种方式。嗯，即便到了成年后，我也发现，在很大程度上，无论一个人的宗教信仰是什么，关键在于，在他们的宗教里，他们都在试图让追随他们的人成为更好的人。而且我通过研究其他宗教了解到，我只是了解到不同的宗教彼此之间有多么一致。关于宗教的目标到底是什么，并没有那么多分歧。

这其实就是在承认一个事实：你有自由意志去做出糟糕的决定，去做一个恶劣的人，去对其他人做可怕的事。但如果你有一张不该做的事情的清单，有一条你绝不会跨越的底线，你的生活会好得多。如果你觉得对你的创造者负有义务，那么就会有表达这种义务的方式：回报他人以及达到更高水平的人性，这是所有信教之人都在追求的。所以我尊重这一点，即便我并不加入那个宗教。

英文原文 >> and a relationship with God. And I assumed that for whatever nationality or creed or race that the person was, their personal religion was their way of explaining and handling and dealing with a relationship with God. And um even as an adult, I found for the most part that um regardless of what someone's religion is, um the key thing is that in their religion, they are attempting to get the people that follow them to be better people. And I I learned from studying other religions, I I I just learned how much different religions are really agreeing with one another. There's not all of that much disagreement as far as what the goal is in religion. It it's really just acknowledging the fact that you have free will to make terrible decisions and to be an awful person and to do awful things to other people. But you would live a much better life if you had a list of things that you don't do that lines that you won't cross. And if you feel an obligation to your creator, then there are ways that you show that giving back to others and a heightened level of humanity is what all religious people are after. So I I respect that even though I don't join the religion.

你信教吗？你……你属于……你不属于某个宗教吗？

英文原文 >> Are you religious? Do you are you part you're not part of a religion?

不属于。

英文原文 >> No.

好的，讲得通。不，只是因为在研究了这些宗教之后，它们当中都有我赞同的部分。归根结底，这些都是人，而这些人大多数都只是想成为更好的人。而宗教就是他们用来达到这一目的的工具。但我无法想象如果世界上没有这个，如果没有人在积极努力变得更好，世界会变成什么样。所以，不，我把这二者分开了。是的，这对我一直很有帮助。

冒险与笃定

你是如何看待风险的？在你的创造力上冒险。就在我们坐下来之前，我真的给我团队发了这么一个视频，是我和里克·鲁宾坐在这里的片段，里面谈到了风险，我想听听你的看法，看你是否赞同。

英文原文 >> Okay, makes sense. No, just because after studying the religions, there's parts I agree with with all of them. At the end of the day, these are people and most of these people are just trying to be better people. And religion is what they're using to do that. But I I couldn't imagine where the world would be if we didn't have that, if there weren't people actively trying to be better. So, no, I separate that. Yeah, that's been helpful for me. How do you think about risk? Taking risks with your creativity. There's this video that I literally sent before we sat down to my team um where I sat here with Rick Rubin and it talks about risk and I wanted to get your perspective on whether you agree.

我认为风险和成功是相辅相成的。只有通过冒险，伟大才能显现出来。所以，不可能只是一味重复相同的东西，却仍然被认为是伟大的……我不这么认为。我不知道。这在我看来似乎不对。感觉就像是有一道边缘。有一根钢丝，你在钢丝上走，如果你成功走过去了，那就真的太棒了。

英文原文 >> I think the risk and the success go hand in hand. It's only through the risk that the greatness is shown. So, it's not possible to sort of produce more of the same and still be considered a great I don't think so. I don't know. It It doesn't seem right to me. It feels like there's this edge. There's a tight rope and you're walking on the tight rope and if you make it, it's really good.

太真实了。真是金玉良言。就我个人的情况而言，我发现唯一的风险在于把赌注押在我没有参与的事情上。所以，如果让我押注达拉斯牛仔队对阵绿湾包装工队，那是有风险的，因为包装工队会怎么做我无法掌控，牛仔队会怎么做我也没有任何掌控，我也无法以任何方式去施加影响。那是冒险。

把赌注押在我自己身上，零风险。

零风险。

在这种处境下无论我需要他做什么，他都会去做。他会挺过来的。如果他必须付出更多努力，他就会付出更多努力。如果他必须道歉，他就会去道歉。如果他必须狠辣凶残，他就会狠辣凶残。如果他必须巧妙周旋，他就会去巧妙周旋。我只押注于我和我的上帝。只要我押注的对象是我自己，我就不认为这是风险。

英文原文 >> So factual. Such a gem. In my particular case, I found that the only risk is betting on something where I'm not involved. So, there's a risk in me betting on the Dallas Cowboys versus the Green Bay Packers because I have no bearing on what the Packers are going to do and I have no bearing on what the Cowboys are going to do and I can't influence it in any way. That's risky. Betting on myself, zero risk. Zero risk. Whatever I need him to do in the situation, that's what he's going to do. He's going to come through. If he's got to outwork, he's going to outwork. If he's got to apologize, he'll apologize. If he's got to be vicious, he'll be vicious. If he's got to maneuver, he'll maneuver. I only have one betting on myself and my God. I don't consider it a risk if what I'm betting on is myself.

你一直都是这样吗，还是说这种自信是随着时间、经验和证据的积累而逐渐增长的？

英文原文 >> Have you always been like that or has that confidence grown and compounded through time, experience, and evidence?

我仅仅是以证据为依据。我并不是单纯接受了自己必须碰300次壁才能换来30次肯定。那不是我赞同的逻辑。而是我要竭尽所能走得足够远，去弄清楚到底需要碰多少次壁。比起从胜利中学习，我从失败中学到的东西要多得多。但话说回来，这就是为什么它不算风险，因为我发现无论结果如何……

我很好奇，如果让我把当年刚在俄克拉荷马赢得那场脱口秀的20岁的Katt请到这里坐下，那个Katt是否也会拥有眼前这个人的气场与自信。我想我之所以在乎这个问题，是因为这能让我看到这段历程赋予了你什么。历程会改变人。它会强化人内心深处的某些东西。曾经像聚芳烃一样脆弱的想法，会变成像钛合金一样坚不可摧的原则。

英文原文 >> I'm only basing it on the evidence. I didn't just agree that I have to get 300 nos to get 30 yeses. I That wasn't what I agreed upon. It was me going as far as I can to find out how many nos does it take. I learned from the losses far more than I learn from the victories. But again, that's what makes it not a risk because I found that regardless of how it turns out. I'm curious if I sat 20-year-old cat here that just won that comedy show at in Oklahoma, whether that cat would have had the aura and the confidence of this one. And I think the reason I care about that question is because that shows me what the journey has given you. And the journey changes people. It reinforces things in them. Ideas that were like made of polyarene become principles that are like made of titanium.

不，他们……他们会告诉你，我一直以来都是这副行事风格。

英文原文 >> No, they'll they'll tell you that I I always acted like this.

好吧。

英文原文 >> Okay.

就像这才是关键所在。就像我什么都没有改变。比如后来他们会说：“是啊，他开始穿西装，是因为你知道，人们在那时候都穿大号西装……”不，不，不。我可以拿我五岁时的样子给你看，如果我当时穿了西装的话。是同一个人。同样的表情，同样的一切，就像……是的。在没有必要的地方，我几乎没有做过什么个人成长。

我觉得即使在更年轻的时候，自己身上也有很多美好的东西，而我想保留这些东西。我想保持我的好奇心。我想保留这种“绝不因为听说了某件事就轻信它”的态度。我认为调研才是解决之道。你知道，我向你保证，20岁的Katt在外表上同样自信。就像在我靠讲单口喜剧一年赚不到1万美元的时候，我也作为一名喜剧演员很有底气。[笑声]

我是说，我从来都不是那种缺乏信念的人。我一直都充满信念。但我想要表达的是，那种自信是建立在我所笃信的事物之上，而不是建立在我自身的地位之上。

当你回顾职业生涯中的那些关键时刻，你能否看出，一个缺乏自信的Katt可能会落入完全不同的境地？

不可能。我这么说是因为这对我而言太显而易见了。我甚至——你知道，我当时不在场，但我会觉得，拥有那种程度的自信和信念的人，去推开的大门，换作别人看可能就是一堵水泥墙。

英文原文 >> Like that's the whole thing. Like I haven't changed anything. Like later on they would say, "Yeah, he started wearing suits because you know people were wearing big suits at the No, no, no. I can show you me at five if I had on a suit. It's the same guy. Same look on the face, same everything like like Yeah. I made very little personal growth where it was unnecessary. I thought there was a lot of wonderful things about myself even younger and I wanted to maintain those things. I wanted to keep my curiosity. I wanted to keep the fact that I didn't just believe something just because I heard it. That I thought that research was the answer. You know, I promise you 20year-old cat was um outwardly just as confident. like I had security as a comedian when I was making less than $10,000 a year doing standup. [laughter] I'm saying I was never the guy that didn't believe. I always believed. But what I'm saying is that that confidence was based on what I believed in, not based upon what I was. When you look back on key moments in your career, do you see how a cat without the confidence might have ended up in a different place? No. I say that because it's so obvious to me. I don't even, you know, I wasn't there, but I go, someone with that level of confidence and belief is going to open doors that would have otherwise appeared to be concrete walls to someone else.

没错。是的。不。而且我……我明白那看起来可能像是自信，但是……对失败的恐惧绝不该和自信混为一谈。我当时对失败怀有极大的恐惧。我……我认为，当你不够努力的时候，失败就会发生。如果这行不通，我就会变成一艘失去舵的船。所以，这必须行得通。就像每一个——

英文原文 >> Right. Yeah. No. And I I understand that it it might look like confidence, but um fear of failure should not be confused with confidence. I had an overwhelming fear of failure. I I thought failure is what happens when you don't work hard enough. I was going to be a rudderless ship if this doesn't work. So, this has to work. Like every

没有备选方案。

英文原文 >> there was no plan B.

一切都指望这上面了。而且这是我生命中出现过的最好的事情。我从那些书里知道，你不可能拥有无限的机会。

英文原文 >> Everything is counting on this. And this is the best thing that's ever presented itself in my life. I know from these books that you don't get unlimited chances.

你休假了吗？

英文原文 >> Did you take holidays?

我从来没有条件去度长假。

英文原文 >> I was never in a position to vacay.

但你一个专场接着一个专场地办，接连不断，

英文原文 >> But you got special after special after special,

对吧？但在迎来第一个里程碑之前，我熬了10年、15年。所以，一旦你跨入那个“哦，我真的进入这行了”的阶段，现在情况就变成了一套完全不同的标准，现在我得到了成名15分钟的保证。没人能自行决定自己什么时候走红、什么时候过气。它就是自然发生的。所以，我的任务是看看我能不能从中争取到尽可能多的时间

英文原文 >> right? But I went 10, 15 years before the first milestone. So, as soon as you cross into the part where, oh, I'm really in this business. Now, it becomes a whole different set of criteria, now I'm guaranteed 15 minutes of fame. Nobody gets a chance to decide when they're going to be on and when they're washed. It just happens. And so, my job is to see if I can get as much time out of

人生的叙事与选择

这15分钟尽量充分利用。

有些事情我是承受不起去做的。我承受不起在说脱口秀的头几年就把自己的故事全讲完。否则如果我真混出了名堂，我还能剩下什么故事可讲呢？被捕35次、进监狱35次，这本身没有任何美妙、值得称赞或具启发性的地方。

但如果我到最后告诉你，所有的指控都会被全部撤销，经历了35次之后你永远不用坐牢，就像它们都会烟消云散一样。那要是这样，我就干了。但话又说回来，不到最后你根本不会知道。但我很清醒地意识到，不论我们喜不喜欢，我们每个人都在留下一段故事。我读过太多故事了，所以这念头一直印在我脑海里。不，每个人的生活都是一个故事。就好像以后迟早会有人看着你，看你在特定境遇下做了什么，看你的结局到底如何。这其中有一种非常震撼的力量，让我想起自己早年的一段经历，当时我刚离开大学，靠偷披萨来填饱肚子，我记得当时用一部摔坏的旧手机录下了视频，记录自己客观上的绝望处境。我会打开冰箱说：“看，里面什么都没有。”然后把它录下来，接着展示桌上放着的那些催缴信。我录下这些是因为——要是你去看我当时记在Facebook日志里的日记，

英文原文 this 15 minutes as possible.

And there are certain things that I can't afford to do. I can't afford to tell my whole story in my first few years of standup. Or else if I actually become something, what story am I even going to have to tell? There's nothing wonderful or complimentary or edifying about 35 arrests and going to jail 35 times.

But if I told you at the end that all the charges were gonna be dropped for everything and you would never be in prison after 35 like they will all go away. Well then I'm in then. But again, you don't know till the end. But I was cognizant that whether we like it or not, we're all leaving a story. I had just read so many of them that it was in my head. No, every everybody's life is a story. Like somebody's later on going to be looking at you to see what you did in certain circumstances and how it went for you. There's something really powerful that um reminds me of um part of my earlier journey when I was left university and I was shoplifting uh pizzas to feed myself and I remember recording this video on this old smashed up phone of like my objective disperse. So, I'd open the fridge and go, "Look, there's nothing in it." And then I'd record it and then I'd show these baiff letters that I had on my desk and I was recording it because and then when you look at my diary, which I kept on these Facebook notes,

我在对自己说，我告诉自己之所以被要求把这些录下来，是因为未来某天会有一支纪录片摄制组来把这一切拍成故事。现在回想起来，那并不是真的，但我当时就是这么对自己说的。当你回望那个时刻，去描述那种客观本质——这处境很糟糕。客观地说，你当时身处那个公园的后角，周围有几个无家可归的人，这客观上就是一个很糟糕的处境。

你意识到面对糟糕的境遇有两种理解方式：你可以把它看作终点，也可以看作故事的一部分。

英文原文 >> I am telling myself I'm telling myself that I've been asked to record this because there's a documentary crew that are going to make a story about this someday. And when I look back on that, it wasn't true, but that's what I'd said to myself. And when you look back on that moment um and you describe the objective nature of like this is a shitty situation. Objectively you being in the back of that park with several homeless people objectively a shitty situation.

You um you realize that there's two ways you can take a shitty situation. You can see it as the destination or part of a story.

如果它是故事的一部分，它就处在一条弧线上。我认为这能让人获得解脱，让你能以一种不陷入绝望或受害者心态的方式去行事。这也是我从你字里行间听出来的：因为你读了那么多书，你懂得叙事，明白你人生中那些客观上最艰难的经历，其实只是叙事的一部分。凭借你脑海中的叙事，你可以把天堂变成地狱，也可以把地狱变成天堂。

英文原文 >> And if it's part of a story, it exists on an arc. And that I think can be liberating and allow you to act in such a way where you don't fall into despair or victimhood. And that's kind of what I've heard through the lines of what you're saying is because you read so many books, you understood narrative and that the most objectively difficult parts of your life were actually just part of a narrative. You can make hell out of heaven or heaven out of hell based on the narrative in your own head.

没错。而且我当时看过一些书，我不确定它们叫什么名字，但就像那种走向终点类的书，里面会讲述角色的故事，对吧？角色会走到十字路口，书里就会写道：“好的，情境设定好了。他既可以往南走做这件事，也可以往北走做那个决定，但他不能两者兼得。”

嗯。

英文原文 >> Yep. And and I had there were these books. I'm not sure what they were called, but they were these like destination books where they would give you the story of the characters, right? And they would get to a crossroads and they would say, "Okay, so it's set up. He can either go south and do this or he can go north and make this decision, but he can't do both."

Mhm.

对我来说，极大的乐趣就在于选其中一个，看看最终走向何方，然后回头以不同的选择再读一遍，去看看结局如何，你懂的。我从中获益良多，以至于我开始把这种方式融入到自己的决策过程中。我从不想盲目行动，除非我知道这种情况下的最好结果是什么，这样一旦达成了，我能清楚那就是最好结果；以及在这种情况下可能发生的最坏结果是什么。如果我在开始前对这两者都了然于胸，我对任何尝试都会感到踏实得多。所以，为了在这些决策过程中让自己保持坦诚，因为人有时就是很凡俗、脆弱，会做出错误的决定。

如果这种念头出现在我脑海里，而我不知道该作何决定时，我就会立刻去想：好吧，如果是黑人超级英雄，在这种情况下会怎么做？不论答案是什么，就照着去做。他是不是昂首挺胸迎难而上，表现得就像一切都会圆满解决一样，好让最终的结果看起来像对他信念的奖赏？是的。

英文原文 >> And I that was a great joy for me is to pick one, see where that ended up and then go back and read it again with the different decisions to see how, you know, and I got so much out of that that I started incorporating that into my decision making process. I never want to make a move unless I know what is the best case scenario for this situation so that if I get there I can know that that's what that is and what's the worst possible thing that could happen in this situation and if I can know both of those going in I feel much better about any of the undertakings. So, um, in order to keep myself honest in these decision making processes, because sometimes you just are human and weak and you make the wrong decision.

If it ever was in my head and I didn't know what decision to make, I would just immediately go, okay, what does the black superhero do in this case? And whatever that answer is, do that. Does he go into it with his head up as if it's going to work out fine and then it's able to look like his faith was a reward? Yeah,

这对每一位听众来说都是很好的人生建议。

英文原文 >> it's good life advice for everybody listening.

是的，很管用。

英文原文 >> Yeah, it works.

如果这是一部电影，超级英雄现在会怎么做？

英文原文 >> What would the superhero do right now if this was a movie?

我已经做到了。

英文原文 >> I did it.

我已经做到了。

英文原文 >> I did it already.

很显然，你坚信笔握在自己手里，是在书写自己的故事。

英文原文 >> And you are someone clearly that believes they're holding the pencil and writing their own story.

嗯。

英文原文 >> Mhm.

再次说明，这并不一定是普遍的。有些人认为自己坐在一辆过山车上，系着安全带，任由它忽上忽下、忽左忽右。而有些人则坚信自己可以谱写自己的故事，这显然就是你整个职业生涯所做的事情，因为你一直是那个作者，对吧？

你选择共事的人有多重要？那是你可以自主选择的家人。对于原生家庭，你其实没有任何发言权。你只是来到这个世界，然后被引荐给组成你家庭的那些人。而在我们这一行，这支幕后的家庭团队既可能是把你踢出局的力量，也可能是帮你站稳脚跟的后盾。大家都知道，你不会想要唯唯诺诺的人。你不会想要……他们是……你是在受威胁吗？我这边还有点时间，但我被告知你的公关团队要过来把你拉走了。

英文原文 >> Again, this is this is not necessarily typical. Some people believe they're on a roller coaster and they're strapped in with a seat belt and it's going up and then down and left and right. And then some people believe they can author their story and that's quite clearly what you've done throughout your career cuz you've been the author, right?

How important are the people you choose to work with? It's the family you do get to pick. With your family, you don't really get any say so. You just come into this world and then you're introduced to the people that make up your family. And in our business, that behind the scenes family can be the agency used to take you out of the equation or what is used to help solidify you. You know, we all know you don't want Yes, men. You don't want Are they Are you being threatened? Um, I still have some time to go, but I'm being told your PR team are going to come and pull you out.

没事，别担心那个。

英文原文 >> No, don't worry about that.

他们说是五分钟。

英文原文 >> They're saying five minutes.

我们快结束了。是的。是的，我们知道时间。我们心里有数。

英文原文 >> We're almost done. Yeah. Yeah, we know the time. We got the time.

你受到威胁了。[笑声]

英文原文 >> You're being threatened. [laughter]

我看到你眨了两次眼。我知道。[笑声]

英文原文 >> I saw you blink twice. I know. [laughter]

所以，

英文原文 >> So,

是的。

英文原文 >> right.

刚才有把枪转了过来[笑声]

英文原文 >> Just a gun came around the [laughter]

没错。

是的。我只是……要知道我非常感激能坐在这里和你交流，感谢你邀请我，而且我知道你做的工作有多不容易，所以我很感激。

英文原文 >> Right.

Yeah. I I'm just just know I'm I'm appreciative to be here with you and and you having me and I and I know how difficult what it is you do is so I'm I'm grateful.

我所考虑的是，以我所能做到的最好方式，展现出你故事的所有面貌。这就是为什么我喜欢……这就是我们花时间的原因，因为如你所知，我认为你们都知道，好故事需要时间，也需要空间。是的。

英文原文 >> What I think about is representing your story in the best possible way that I can in all of its shades. So that's why I like uh that's why we take the time cuz you know I think you know you all know good stories take time and they need space. Yeah.

所以，这总是让我有点……在没有足够空间的时候，我的采访风格总会面临一些挑战，

英文原文 >> So, it's I'm always at a bit of a my style of interviewing is always at a bit of a a challenge when there's not enough space,

你懂的，就像因为你说你之前看过，所以我喜欢认真倾听。

英文原文 >> you know, like because you said you've watched, so I like to listen seriously.

没错。但超级英雄会告诉你，尽管占用你需要的所有空间。[笑声]

英文原文 >> Right. But the the superhero would tell you take all the space you need. [laughter]

做你该做的事。别让这些人用我的日程安排来给你施压[笑声]。这没有任何影响。现在最重要的是眼前。

英文原文 >> Do what you do. Don't don't don't let these people pressure you [laughter] by this schedule of mine. Has no bearing on anything. This is it.

好的。你知道我想留给观众的是什么：有很多人，特别是很多年轻的黑人男性和年轻的黑人女性，我知道他们会收听这个节目，因为他们能产生共鸣，而共鸣是获得启发的重要组成部分。科学是这么说的，大家也都知道这一点。

英文原文 >> Right. You know what I'm trying to just leave the audience with is there's lots of people and there's specifically lots of young black men and young black women that I know will listen to the show because they they can relate and relatability is a huge part of inspiration. That's what the science says and what we you all know.

我希望能让他们懂得如何从当下的处境中找到出路。他们在自己的英雄之旅中将遭遇那些阻碍，那就是被拒绝；那将是不小心与错误的联合创始人、经纪人或合作伙伴共事；那将是——正如我们在前面探讨那部分时所详谈的——必须保持些许耐心。你必须精通某件事，而这需要付出时间和牺牲。Katt，当他们踏上属于自己的英雄之旅时，他们还需要些什么？

英文原文 >> And I want to I want to give them sort of an understanding of how to navigate from where they are now. The obstacles that they're going to experience in their hero's journey which is going to be rejection. It's going to be accidentally working with the wrong co-founder or agent or person. It is going to be we talked a lot when we've covered that part which is it's going to be a bit of patience. You're going to have to become a master at something and that's going to take time and sacrifice. What else do they need cat as they go on their own hero's journey?

任何能从中有所收获的人，我都为之感到无比骄傲。这意味着——如果你能从任何地方汲取到启发，就说明你做得很好。

就像我说的，去找一个能让你坚信的东西，一个独立于你自身之外的存在。去找一个你可以依靠的事物。我很早就找到了，我很庆幸自己能早早找到它。就像我对宇宙、对我们的地球所了解到的一切，我所学到的一切，都让我相信我们是被一个比我们更智慧、关爱我们，并且放眼长远未来以确保我们个人需求得以满足的存在所创造的。我不认为他们在宇宙中找到了任何比地球更适合人类生存的地方。

而且我认为凡事皆非巧合。我甚至不相信巧合，因为我从未见过巧合的证据。我建议你们也不要相信巧合。我相信万事万物都是更宏大计划的一部分。这种信念的奇妙之处在于，你越坚信它，它就变得越真实。而且你完全可以在自己的……

英文原文 >> I'm just so proud of um anybody that can take something out of this. It means it means you're doing a good job if you can find inspiration anywhere. Like I said, find you something to believe in that isn't you. Find something that you can uh count on. And I I found that early and I'm thankful that I found it early. Like everything that I learned about the universe and our planet and everything I learned made me believe that we were created by an entity that was smarter than us, cared about us, and that looked way far in the future to make sure that our personal needs were met. I don't think that they've found a location in the universe that's better for people than Earth is. And I don't think anything is coincidence. I don't even believe in coincidence because I've not seen the evidence of coincidence. And I I would suggest that you not believe in coincidence either. I I believe that everything is part of a greater plan. The blessing of it is the more you believe it, the realer it becomes. And you can really track that in your own

……生活。所以我差不多就说这些了。

英文原文 life. So that's about all I have.

约翰和布伦达——

英文原文 >> John and Brenda,

他们还在世。

英文原文 >> they're still alive.

是的，都在世。

英文原文 >> Yes, absolutely.

他们亲眼见证了你成为全球知名的成功典范。

英文原文 >> They've seen you become a global success story.

你曾和约翰和布伦达，也就是你的父母，谈论过你的成功吗？你和他们有联系吗？你今天对他们感觉如何？

英文原文 >> Has there ever been a conversation with John and Brenda, your parents? about your success. Are you in touch with them? How do you feel about them today?

嗯，就像我说的，我已经原谅了他们，而且他们并没有请求原谅。

英文原文 >> Well, as I said, I've um I've forgiven them and they didn't ask for that.

他们并没有请求宽恕。

英文原文 >> They didn't ask for the forgiveness.

没错。

英文原文 >> Correct.

是你主动给他们的。

英文原文 >> You gave it to them.

是的。因为原谅别人是让你自己释怀，而不是让别人好过。原谅是一件你允许自己出于自私去做的事。你可以去原谅那些伤害过你的人。只要明白我们所有人都会犯错，所有人都会有偏差。现在我年纪大了，我明白了他们当时承受了多大的压力，做出糟糕的决定是多么容易的事。

英文原文 >> Yes. Because forgiving people makes things easier for you, not easier for the people. Um Yeah. Forgiveness is something that you're allowed to do selfishly. Um, you're allowed to forgive people that have hurt you. Just understanding that we all make mistakes and we all heir. Now that I'm older, I see how much pressure must have been on them and how easy it would be to make a bad decision.

他们怎么看待你的成功？

英文原文 >> What do they think of your success?

我不在乎，说实话。我当时并不认为他们不该打一个名人，我认为他们本就不该那样对待一个孩子。只是个孩子，懂吗。所以，这跟我取得什么成就毫无关系。而且我一直都不需要得到他们任何认可，我也不需要他们为我感到骄傲或别的什么。我很感激自己被带到了这个世界上。

英文原文 >> I don't I don't uh I don't care, honestly. Um, I did I didn't I didn't think they shouldn't be beating a celebrity. I thought they shouldn't have been treating a kid like that. Just a kid, you know. So, had nothing to do with where what I've achieved. And I didn't I haven't been needing their approval on anything. And I don't need for them to be proud of me or any of that. I'm I'm thankful that, you know, I got brought into this world.

虽然你已经原谅了他们，但你依然没和他们联系。

英文原文 >> And you're not in contact with them even though you have forgiven them.

我们在我这一生中一直有联系。如果他们需要我，我随时都在。而且我依然有孩子，现在他们成了祖父母，而我现在也当了祖父。所以我不可能把他们完全从我的生活中切断。但是我13岁时的决定，跟我55岁时的决定是一样的。

英文原文 >> We we've been in contact uh throughout my life. I've been available if they needed me. And I still have kids and now they they're grandparents and now I'm a grandfather as well. So I couldn't com them completely out of my life. But um my decision at 13 uh is the same as my decision at 55.

你今天的神态跟我看过的你其他采访有所不同。你看起来稍微更加克制沉着一些。

英文原文 >> Your demeanor is different today versus other interviews I've seen you in. You seem a little bit more stoic.

我不太喜欢这个话题。

英文原文 >> Um I'm not a fan of the subject matter.

哪个话题？

英文原文 >> Which subject matter?

比如，我并不是我自己的头号粉丝。我没有被卡特·威廉姆斯迷得神魂颠倒，喜欢聊他、看他的照片，而且——

英文原文 >> Like I'm not my I'm not my biggest fan. Like I don't I'm not head over heels about Cat Williams and love to talk about him and see pictures of him and

而且你知道今天会聊这些。

英文原文 >> and you knew that was happen today.

这么说吧，这不是我更偏好的话题。通常你看到我时，我都在聊别的事情。[笑] 这……这主要是令人痛苦的，你知道，因为我需要讲出我的故事，但我不需要让年轻人听到这些后，认为其中任何一个是明智的决定。我们绝对不是生活在一个任何青少年都能承担得起离家出走、流落世间全凭上帝保佑的世界里。[笑] 这是一种可怕的境况，所有的决定都很糟糕。但我讲这个故事，是为了让你明白，如果你在这个世界上除了对上帝的信仰之外一无所有，你依然能够挺过来，

英文原文 >> Well, I'm saying that's not my preferred subject matter. Generally, when you see me, I'm talking about other things. [laughter] This this is this is painful primarily, you know, and um yeah, because I don't I need to tell my story, but I don't need a young person hearing this to think that any of these were smart decisions. Um, we certainly don't live in a world where anyone as a teenager could afford to leave home and just be out in the world hoping God is [laughter] blessing you. Like it's a terrible situ all of the decisions horrible. Um, but I'm telling the story so that you understand that if you didn't have anything in the world except your belief in God, you could still make it,

你知道吧。所以，再说一次，我确实得表现得有些克制沉着，因为我并不享受抨击我的家人，即便他们罪有应得。我从中得不到任何快感。

英文原文 >> you know. So, again, I I yeah, I have to be kind of stoic because I'm not I don't enjoy bashing my family members even if they are deserving of it. I don't get anything out of that.

现在还会痛吗？你用了“痛苦”这个词。

英文原文 >> And does it still hurt? You use the word painful.

我只想说他们好的一面，如果可能的话我也会这么做。

英文原文 >> I just want to say nice things about him and I would if that were possible.

给年轻人的建议

卡特，我们这个播客有一个收尾传统：上一位嘉宾会给下一位留一个问题，且不知道是留给谁的。

英文原文 >> Cat, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next not knowing who they're leaving it for.

明白。留给你的问题是：你会给年轻——时间。时间是你人生旅程中最重要的东西。事实就是你不知道自己在这辈子被分配了多少时间，你不知道那相当于多少年。你唯一能掌控的，就是如何利用你的时间，而且你可以根据需要把这辈子重置无数次。这是在你的掌控之中的。你可以重新开始，你可以走向不同的方向，你可以去尝试各种事情。我发现，到头来在晚年你唯一的遗憾，就是那些你没给机会的事、你没去争取的机遇、你没去尝试的东西。那样一来，你可能永远不会发现自己命中注定要做什么，永远找不到自己人生的目标。我发现只有这样的人最终才会不快乐，而不是那些可能选错了路或经历了类似挫折的人。我在读书中发现，人在人生中不寻常的时刻也能成功。有成百上千的故事讲的是那些人直到65岁之前，一生中从未做过一件精彩或显赫的事。我试着探寻究竟是什么让他们一路坚持下来——一路经历失败直到64岁，然后在65岁时终于找到了答案。因为时间是你唯一拥有的东西，你没有比弄清楚自己真正的自我价值和人生该走向何方更重要的事情可做了。所以无论如何，尽你所能把每一天都当作最后一天来对待。如果这意味着采访不得不比原定时间延长两个小时，那又怎样？人在其中就去应对它。如果是时候去疗愈了，哪怕痛苦也要去疗愈。

英文原文 >> Got it. And the question left for you is what is the most important piece of advice that you would offer to the young time. Time is the most important thing in your journey. The fact that you don't know how much time you've been allotted in this life. You don't know how many years that equals out to. Um, you are only in charge of what you do with your time and you can reset this life as many times as you need to. That is in your control. You can restart. You can go a different direction. You can try things. I found that the only regret you have later in life is the things you didn't give a chance, the opportunities you didn't go for, the things you didn't try. And then there's a chance that you'll never find out what you were meant to do. You never find your purpose in life. And I found that those are the only people that end up unhappy, not people who might have chosen the wrong path or any of that. And I in the reading of books, I found out that you can make it at odd times in your life. There are hundreds of stories of people that never did one wonderful or notable thing in their life until they were 65 years old. And I tried to find what kept them going all the way being a failure all the way through 64 and then at 65 now you finally find out because time is all you got and you have nothing better to do than to find out your real selfworth and where your life should go. So by all means treat every day as close to the last one as you can. Um, if that means the interview has to go two hours longer than scheduled, so what? You deal with that as you're in there. And if it's time to do healing, do it even if it's painful.

好的。

英文原文 >> Okay.

谢谢你。关于这本书，我会把链接放在下面。强烈推荐大家去读一读，因为它是直面现实、毫无保留且令人备受鼓舞的，这几种特质兼而有之，它真切地是一段真正的英雄之旅。所以请大家务必去购买这本书，我会把链接放在下面。我迫不及待想让你给我在这本书上签名，因为它是我的最爱之一。另外，卡特还有一个名为《According to Cat》的播客即将上线，我也会在下方附上链接，这真的非常让人兴奋。在这个媒介领域我可不需要竞争对手。

英文原文 >> Thank you. The book, um, I'm going to link it below. Highly recommend you read it because it is it's confronting and vulnerable and inspiring in all the same measures and it really is truly a hero's journey. Um, so please do go and buy the book. I'm going to link it below. Uh, I I'm can't wait for you to sign this to me because it's one of my favorites. But also, Cat has a podcast called According to Cat, which is launching. Um, and I'm going to put a link to that below as well, which is really really exciting. Um, I don't need the competition in this medium.

我不会成为竞争对手的，别担心。

英文原文 >> And I and I shall not be, don't worry.

不过我听说了关于它的一些情况，听起来棒极了，就像这本书一样。所以，卡特，非常感谢你的慷慨分享，我真的非常感激。

英文原文 >> But it's I've heard I've heard some things about it. It sounds amazing, as is the book. So, Cat, thank you so much for your generosity. I really really appreciate it.

我迫不及待想看到你的英雄之旅继续书写下去。

英文原文 >> Um, and I can't wait to see your hero's journey continue.

谢谢。YouTube现在有一套非常厉害的新算法，能通过人工智能和你的所有观看行为，准确知道你接下来想看什么视频。算法说这个视频对你来说是最完美的视频。对现在正在观看的每个人来说都是不一样的。去看看这个视频吧，我敢打赌你可能会喜欢

英文原文 >> Thank you. YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing behavior. And the algorithm says that this video is the perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking right now. Check this video out and I bet you you might love
文中提及的人物和组织

人物: 卡特·威廉姆斯

媒体/书籍: According to Cat